What went wrong? Help!

[Go4Doc]

Think what you want but the schools want to see non-clinical volunteer service. They want to see altruism and clinical exposure separately and not just as a two-for-one deal.

But can you give us any sort of reasoning beyond "that's the way it is"? I understand that schools look for non-clinical hours but I've yet to see a compelling reason as to why. I know that schools want to see evidence of altruism, but failing to consider clinical experiences as altruistic seems to completely undercut the field they purport to represent.

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[aalamruad]

No rule against choosing both... one for clinical volunteerism and one for non-clinical.

Of course, but that's a cop out; hypothetically, if one had to choose either the clinical or non-clinical volunteering in that scenario, it's ridiculous that it would be better for some applicants to choose the non-clinical option just to appease adcoms. It's actually entirely counterproductive to the goal of demonstrating altruism.

 

[LizzyM]

The adcoms are looking for people who enjoy providing service and who when given an opportunity, or if observing a need, step in to do what they can. Many of the needs in a community are not clinical and at a point in your journey when you have few if any clinical credentials, it makes sense that the service you can provide may be manual labor or the use of academic skills you have already developed such as tutoring and mentoring to fill needs you see in the community.

Over the past 40 years, I've slept overnight in a homeless shelter in a church basement, cooked soup kitchen meals in a decommissioned convent, taught cooking classes to a pair of women in a home for adults with cognitive disabilities and to young pregnant women in a group home. I've made home visits to families in economic distress, served coffee and sandwiches to homeless persons, and collected and distributed groceries, holiday gifts, winter clothing and school supplies to the needy. I started in college and I haven't quit although the time I have to contribute declined as my family grew and then expanded as the children became independent.

There are those people who will do what they must because it is part of playing the game. For some applicants, research is something they do because it is expected rather than something that they feel drawn to with excitement. What the adcom tries to discover are those who do the activities they do for the right reasons. It is difficult and adcoms aren't always successful but it is what they are aiming for in winnowing the thousands of applications received down to the few hundred who are offered admission.

 

[aalamruad]

The adcoms are looking for people who enjoy providing service and who when given an opportunity, or if observing a need, step in to do what they can. Many of the needs in a community are not clinical and at a point in your journey when you have few if any clinical credentials, it makes sense that the service you can provide may be manual labor or the use of academic skills you have already developed such as tutoring and mentoring to fill needs you see in the community.

Over the past 40 years, I've slept overnight in a homeless shelter in a church basement, cooked soup kitchen meals in a decommissioned convent, taught cooking classes to a pair of women in a home for adults with cognitive disabilities and to young pregnant women in a group home. I've made home visits to families in economic distress, served coffee and sandwiches to homeless persons, and collected and distributed groceries, holiday gifts, winter clothing and school supplies to the needy. I started in college and I haven't quit although the time I have to contribute declined as my family grew and then expanded as the children became independent.

There are those people who will do what they must because it is part of playing the game. For some applicants, research is something they do because it is expected rather than something that they feel drawn to with excitement. What the adcom tries to discover are those who do the activities they do for the right reasons. It is difficult and adcoms aren't always successful but it is what they are aiming for in winnowing the thousands of applications received down to the few hundred who are offered admission.

Beautifully explained, you've converted me.

 

[NegiGenerationZ]

Sorry everyone. I made a mistake that could explain some of my lack of success. My Sci gpa is actually 3.98 and my cum gpa is 3.88. I will fix the original post to reflect this and thank you for all the help. It may be anonymous, but it all helps and means a lot to me.

 

[aalamruad]

Sorry everyone. I made a mistake that could explain some of my lack of success. My Sci gpa is actually 3.98 and my cum gpa is 3.88. I will fix the original post to reflect this and thank you for all the help. It may be anonymous, but it all helps and means a lot to me.

That makes this situation even more surprising and confusing haha

 

[LizzyM]

Sorry everyone. I made a mistake that could explain some of my lack of success. My Sci gpa is actually 3.98 and my cum gpa is 3.88. I will fix the original post to reflect this and thank you for all the help. It may be anonymous, but it all helps and means a lot to me.

Have we all fallen for a troll?

Hi all
I am currently nearing the end of my cycle with minimal hope for admittance. I have asked medical students and doctors for help in what went wrong and they are baffled. I am hoping for some help. I apologize for the information overload in advance, but at this point I need to scrutinize absolutely everything.

2016-2017 cycle (What I submitted going in)

Race: Asian
CA resident
Sci GPA: 3.88 (This is my cum GPA, my Sci GPA is 3.98)
MCAT: 520
Graduated July 2016

EC
ER volunteering=150 hours
Radiology Volunteering=150 hours
Radiology shadowing= 100 hours
Insect Research=2000 hours + 1st author paper (recently rejected and revised for resubmission)
Biology TA= 300 hours for 3 quarters
Raising animal hobby=unknown but exceeds 9999 hours
Various outdoor hobbies= 1500 hours during college

I had my PS evaluated by several medical students and the consensus was that it was good. It is highly unlikely to be the deal breaker. Because of this, I do not think my secondaries were particularly bad as I did not have to do extensive revisions on my PS.

School List (This is particularily long, 34 schools total.)
Einstein, Boston U, Case Western, Columbia, Drexel, Duke, Geisel, Harvard, Hofstra, Sinai, Buffalo, Hopkins, Keck, Mayo, NYU, Feinberg, U Penn, Stanford, U Vermont, ALL UC SOM, Pritzker, U Colorado, U Mich, U Pitts, U Rochester, U Wisc, Wash U, Cornell, Yale

Interviews
I interviewed at Keck early in the cycle but was waitlisted. I then interviewed at Wash U in October and have not heard back. Given the trend indicated in the WashU thread, I don't think I will get accepted. I recently interviewed at Case and was rejected. I plan to ask for feedback if possible.

Suspicions: I don't think my interview skills are a major issue as some of my interviewers gave great responses. Furthermore, I expected more interviews to be honest, which points to something else as the issue. Nevertheless, I will work on them for the upcoming cycle. At this point, I am suspecting a LOR sunk me but I don't think my writers are that cruel. I don't know what to believe. It could be the lack of nonclinical volunteering, but I did not think it would impact me this much. I am working on this currently.

Current Status
Miserable, but working to improve my app.
Volunteering at a food distribution organization (expected to have 40 hours before I move back home)
Volunteering as a nature observer (basically I note and report changes in local wildlife areas, expected 30 hours)
Volunteering as an English tutor for foreign visitors (expected 40 hours before I move)
Increased insect research hours (3100+ total currently, expected 3500+ by June)
Radiology Volunteering (ended during app cycle, total 190 hours)
ER Volunteering (180 currently, expected 300~400 before June)

Once I move back, I will look for a more permanent non clinical volunteering and a job to help pay back loans. I plan to apply both DO and MD schools for the upcoming cycle.

Any help or suggestions for improvements would be highly appreciated. Thank you for the help. If there's any crucial information I missed, let me know I will gladly add it.

 

[nonamesleft]

Because I'd applied using several different systems (not just AMCAS), I noticed something about the "scoring system". AMCAS doesn't give you a "score" for your various EC's and leadership, but some of the other systems do. I found that although I'd put the exact same activities into each system, I scored much higher on the research, clinical, non-clinical, and leadership activities when I was allowed to write a description of each activity. I am wondering if ADCOMS look at AMCAS the same way? For example, the "insect research" could've been drosophila models for human disease XYZ and you'd found some new target for curing diabetes. "Insect research" would net you zero points beyond checking a box for "has done research", but the latter would gain several brownie points. For me, the importance of the non-clinical volunteering was to describe interactions with people and the ability to hold conversations. Clinical volunteering, depending on what you did, could've involved almost no direct patient interaction beyond asking a patient if he or she wanted water. What I'm trying to ask is - did you appropriately describe your activities in a way that could strengthen rather than hinder your application?

The other may be your letters. Can you guarantee they were strong letters, and not generic? A friend of mine realized that one of our professors (professor Y) had written a VERY generic letter when he received a call from the med school asking "the name on your application is X. The letter we received from professor Y said your name was Z"...

I think, overall, that the stats vs. II ratio indicates a pre-interview problem. (Of course, interview skills could also be improved to increase the II to acceptance ratio...)

 

[nonamesleft]

Sorry everyone. I made a mistake that could explain some of my lack of success. My Sci gpa is actually 3.98 and my cum gpa is 3.88. I will fix the original post to reflect this and thank you for all the help. It may be anonymous, but it all helps and means a lot to me.

... how does this explain lack of success? wouldn't the lack of success be even more head-scratching?

[edit] unless the sGPA involves 2 science courses, and the OP didn't actually have all the pre-req courses he needed?!

 

[787593]

Top heavy list,
possible torpedo LOR,
poor interviewing skills if you are getting straight rejected post interviews.
Also your writing style seems to make you sound like a person who has no insight into their own short comings.

See if you can get assurances for the letters.
Practice interviewing
Do some extensive volunteering at a soup kitchen or with underserved populations.
Rewrite everything.

I would reapply after checking all the boxes. Don't let that MCAT expire though.

Agreed!

 

[gonnif]

One point off on the CARS for me. I hope that OP will update us in June when this opera is over.

"Whats Opera Doc?" seems appropriate here

 

[Beezlebub]

do you have a felony conviction by any chance
are you in your 60s,70s,80s,90s
do you use verbal communication
did you let your worst enemy write your LOR
does your PS suck
do you have a terminal illness w/ <5yrs life expectancy
during your interview, did you answer "520" to every question that was asked
are you trollin us
why did libertyyne quote me instantly w/o giving me a chance to edit

 

[libertyyne]

do you have a felony conviction by any chance

Are you selling those ?

 

[aalamruad]

do you have a felony conviction by any chance
are you in your 60s,70s,80s,90s
do you use verbal communication
did you let your worst enemy write your LOR
does your PS suck
do you have a terminal illness w/ <5yrs life expectancy
during your interview, did you answer "520" to every question that was asked
are you trollin us
why did libertyyne quote me instantly w/o giving me a chance to edit

 

[Go4Doc]

The adcoms are looking for people who enjoy providing service and who when given an opportunity, or if observing a need, step in to do what they can. Many of the needs in a community are not clinical and at a point in your journey when you have few if any clinical credentials, it makes sense that the service you can provide may be manual labor or the use of academic skills you have already developed such as tutoring and mentoring to fill needs you see in the community.

Over the past 40 years, I've slept overnight in a homeless shelter in a church basement, cooked soup kitchen meals in a decommissioned convent, taught cooking classes to a pair of women in a home for adults with cognitive disabilities and to young pregnant women in a group home. I've made home visits to families in economic distress, served coffee and sandwiches to homeless persons, and collected and distributed groceries, holiday gifts, winter clothing and school supplies to the needy. I started in college and I haven't quit although the time I have to contribute declined as my family grew and then expanded as the children became independent.

There are those people who will do what they must because it is part of playing the game. For some applicants, research is something they do because it is expected rather than something that they feel drawn to with excitement. What the adcom tries to discover are those who do the activities they do for the right reasons. It is difficult and adcoms aren't always successful but it is what they are aiming for in winnowing the thousands of applications received down to the few hundred who are offered admission.

Thank you for that. It makes a lot more sense put that way.

 

[TXMED_1695]

The second I read:

Raising animal hobby=unknown but exceeds 9999 hours

I thought it was weird, anal, and almost arrogant. I collect rocks, but I wouldn't put that on any application. I have 35,000 hours of rock collecting. , I'm amazing, so I will be humble and put 9,999 (unknown) <--- seems almost anal, right?

 

[gonnif]

I am with the wise LizzyM on this one. Med schools want to see you show off your humanism. And one thing I am picking up from SDNers who got into top schools (Harvard/Stanford/UCSF class) is that they have hundreds, and for some, even 1000s of hours of patient contact experience, and/or service to others less fortunate than oneself.

And to add this, something I have reiterated time and time again, healthcare experience, community service/volunteer experience, experience with underserved populations, navigating through cultural barriers or challenges, and leadership experience were considered of higher importance in factors for interview invites and offers of acceptances over research.

*https://www.aamc.org/download/434596/data/usingmcatdata2016.pdf
see page 3 (pdf p7) Table 1. Mean Importance Ratings of Academic, Experiential, and Demographic Application Data Used by Admissions Committees for Making Decisions about Which Applicants to Receive an Interview Invitation and Offer Acceptance (N=127)

 

[Goro]

My learned colleague LizzyM answered far more eloquently than I could, but to answer your question, patients are not always nice people. You need to show up that you really want to be around people like that and more, and going outside the clinical realm does that. And see gonnif's post. Actual data there.

But can you give us any sort of reasoning beyond "that's the way it is"? I understand that schools look for non-clinical hours but I've yet to see a compelling reason as to why. I know that schools want to see evidence of altruism, but failing to consider clinical experiences as altruistic seems to completely undercut the field they purport to represent.

 

[cellsaver]

I've made home visits to families in economic distress, served coffee and sandwiches to homeless persons, and collected and distributed groceries, holiday gifts, winter clothing and school supplies to the needy.

My husband has taken a second job and now the dog doesnt get walked much, the house is always a mess, home cooked meals are few and our physical intimacy is almost nonexistent.

What are your rates for hire?

 

[Luka75]

My husband has taken a second job and now the dog doesnt get walked much, the house is always a mess, home cooked meals are few and our physical intimacy is almost nonexistent.

What are your rates for hire?

I'm guessing A glass of water, A thank you, and a hug.

 

[mwsapphire]

Clinical volunteering is clinical and it checks that box. You do it because you are interested in clinical exposure. You do it because you want to see if you like the clinical environment and can stand working with patients.

Non-clinical volunteering doesn't involve patients. It gets you no exposure to your chosen profession. You do it because you have to do it for admission (grudgingly) or you do it because you like to help people and you feel compassion for people in need and you feel compelled to do what you can to help. Is it too nitpicky of the AdComs to select applicants who walk the walk when it comes to helping people in need?

MMmm. I mean, you're donating time either way? Like if you have hundreds of hours of ER volunteering, how much more time would it take to also do non clincal, and have research, and great grades, and study for MCAT? Eh, what do I know . N=1

 

[Chimichica]

I'm not adcom, nor am I accepted I have no reason to even pick apart you app considering I can't touch your gpa and mcat with a 10ft pole however, I will say this: gunners like you come a dime a dozen. No offense. What makes you special? Here's the thing numbers are important but my goodness where's your soul? By the way the radiology and entamology make me immediately think you are looking for a way to combine you DNA with radioactive insects to become either an antihero or villan...lol jkjk....kinda...
But really Asian kids with super high stats and ECs like yours applying to the schools you applied to is kind of common. I had several personal adcoms tell me that schools like to keep their demographic trends constant for the most part so that also plays more of a role than people might think. Ex. If out of 5,000 applicants there are 500 with stats like yours and they mostly are Asian then what do you presume will happen. The school can't have a class of 80% Asian males. So if any one school at any point in time has reached their max of Asian males, then your on the wait list at best. Also, altruism for someone of your app profile is super important, almost a requirement. No personal statement is gonna make you sound compassionate towards persons of all walks of life. It's what you have experienced in life whether through volunteering or randomly that sets you apart. Also, I'm sure you're a nice person, but people love assumptions and it's too easy for seasoned adcoms to recognize or think they already know who you are just by your primary app, and it's just not that appealing. So go get some sparkle go do something daring and bold. Show them that the strong stats are icing on the cake and that they would be crazy to lose a person like you **cue adventurous music*** show them, tell them, in all the ways you can through your app. Your app is a digital fingerprint, there should be no confusion about who you are and what kind of future student they are getting. NOW GO KICK SOME EXTACURRICULAR BUTT!!!

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

 

[mwsapphire]

Ya gotta admit, it is a bit bizarre (and kind of messed up, actually) that there are situations where it'd look better to volunteer to tutor kids at some random elementary school than to volunteer to tutor hospitalized elementary schoolers who are incredibly sick and socially isolated and behind in their education due to hospitalization. I'd say the latter is always the better option in spite of the fact that it might look like 2-for-1 box-checking by some cynical adcom.

I think some Adcoms are cynical.

 

[mwsapphire]

I dont think adcoms would get bugged out by that, pun intended; my research and pubs as a UG were fruit fly genetics and cellular and behavior on fireflies

Are you an MD doc? Or DO? or Phd? I'm curious your pro page doesn't say it.

 

[NegiGenerationZ]

Have we all fallen for a troll?

Not a troll. The misery on my face and the tears I shed this cycle are a testament to that. However, I didn't do as well in my writing classes as I did in science classes, hence why I was wondering if that imbalance was looked upon unfavorably. My MCAT also reflects it. 130 PHYS/127 CARS/132 BIO/131 PYSCH

 

[NegiGenerationZ]

The second I read:




I thought it was weird, anal, and almost arrogant. I collect rocks, but I wouldn't put that on any application. I have 35,000 hours of rock collecting. , I'm amazing, so I will be humble and put 9,999 (unknown) <--- seems almost anal, right?

Thanks for pointing that out, I can just put 1 hours and include the years in the description. That should look better.

 

[LizzyM]

Thanks for pointing that out, I can just put 1 hours and include the years in the description. That should look better.

Putting numerous years and 1 hour would look crazy. Don't do that. You aren't obligated to list everything you've ever done so many this gets left off next time around.

 

[libertyyne]

Isn't the consensus that if you have clinical volunteering ( not work or shadowing) , then not having non clinical volunteering isn't a deal breaker? That seems soooo nitpicky of the AdComs...

Are you volunteering for a cause that exposes you to the vulnerable of our society? It checks both boxes. If you are just pushing beds around in a hospital or are greeting patients. probably not.

 

[LizzyM]

My husband has taken a second job and now the dog doesnt get walked much, the house is always a mess, home cooked meals are few and our physical intimacy is almost nonexistent.

What are your rates for hire?

I do it only out of love for my neighbor.

Last week I delivered some donated furniture to a mom with kids and who had no seating for us when we visited earlier; we sat on milk crates. The house was a mess, there was no dog, and her partner is incarcerated which means physical intimacy is nonexistent in that household, too. Count your blessings.

 

[olderbrooklyndoc]

I agree with what many people are saying on this thread. Your biggest hurdle might be demonstrating two things throughout your application:

1. You REALLY want to go into medicine and will commit to it
-was there anything in your activities or essays or interviews that suggested your desire or knowledge about the field was lukewarm?
- do any of your activities suggest you might be MORE interested in that activity or research than medicine?

And 2. You are personable and able to connect and interact with a diverse group of people
- do you come off as someone who can connect not only with your interviewers but also also with a diverse group of patients, including those who are homeless/from various backgrounds?

For both illustrating the latter and gaining great experience, signing up for some sort of non-clinical volunteering activity that you're really passionate about (and can talk about in interviews) might bring an extra dimension to your application. Perhaps you could teach underserved kids about insects and nature at a local Audubon society? The goal is to do something that you'd enjoy doing and would do even if you weren't going through this process, but that will also build your communication skills and your ability to connect w/ people very different from yourself.

 

[Dr.Sticks]

@LizzyM Well that kind of activity isn't measurable
So when you say non clinical you mean to say join an organization like habitat for humanity, boys and girls club, big brothers, etc?

 

[cactusman]

@LizzyM Well that kind of activity isn't measurable
So when you say non clinical you mean to say join an organization like habitat for humanity, boys and girls club, big brothers, etc?

You can volunteer at a soup kitchen regularly without joining Habitat for Humanity.

 

[NegiGenerationZ]

Putting numerous years and 1 hour would look crazy. Don't do that. You aren't obligated to list everything you've ever done so many this gets left off next time around.

Hmm, I'd hate to leave it out because its one of my defining hobbies. I would like to keep it in the application if possible. What would you recommend that I list for the hours vs years issue?

 

[Dr.Sticks]

You can volunteer at a soup kitchen regularly without joining Habitat for Humanity.

So on your app you say
"Soup Kitchen, x years, x hours"?

 

[nonamesleft]

Hmm, I'd hate to leave it out because its one of my defining hobbies. I would like to keep it in the application if possible. What would you recommend that I list for the hours vs years issue?

if it defines who you are, and why you want to go to med school, it could show up somehow in your PSE, or on the secondaries under "other things that make you special and contribute diversity to the class". As long as it doesn't make an adcom wonder why you're interested in human medicine and not non-human medicine.

 

[NegiGenerationZ]

So on your app you say
"Soup Kitchen, x years, x hours"?

I recall trying to leave the hours box in AMCAS empty, but it would not accept that unless if I put a number for total hours.

 

[LizzyM]

So on your app you say
"Soup Kitchen, x years, x hours"?

Exactly. Soup kitchen, 9/2014-5/2015, 40 hours.




Usually, a soup kitchen, or even the home visits I make, have a non-profit organization that sponsors the activity. It might be a faith community, a non-profit community service organization, or something like that.

 

[mwsapphire]

Are you volunteering for a cause that exposes you to the vulnerable of our society? It checks both boxes. If you are just pushing beds around in a hospital or are greeting patients. probably not.

Well, I can't think of anybody more vulnerable than patients in the ER....so...yes?

 

[libertyyne]

Well, I can't think of anybody more vulnerable than patients in the ER....so...yes?

You need to think harder.

 

[Dr.Sticks]

Well, I can't think of anybody more vulnerable than patients in the ER....so...yes?

That wouldn't count

Volunteering at a methadone clinic or some addiction clinic probably would check both boxes

It is clinical but you are dealing with heroine addicts or some other addicts who may not be nice people, and may be potentially dangerous.
Who would do that other than to help the community?

Checks both boxes

An adcom can confirm or deny
But I think it does

 

[mwsapphire]

You need to think harder.

In all seriousness, yes. The hospital I volunteer at is in a poor area, and you see lots of people who don't have adequate health insurance/ what not, or people who don't understand their illness. On my last ER visit, I saw this old lady who barely spoke any english and barely understood what was going on.

 

[libertyyne]

In all seriousness, yes. The hospital I volunteer at is in a poor area, and you see lots of people who don't have adequate health insurance/ what not, or people who don't understand their illness. On my last ER visit, I saw this old lady who barely spoke any english and barely understood what was going on.

Sure thing. Good luck convincing an adcom. See the OP.

 

[mwsapphire]

That wouldn't count

Volunteering at a methadone clinic or some addiction clinic probably would check both boxes

It is clinical but you are dealing with heroine addicts or some other addicts who may not be nice people, and may be potentially dangerous.
Who would do that other than to help the community?

Checks both boxes

An adcom can confirm or deny
But I think it does

I was actually going to do phlebotomy training, but my mother is suuuuper afraid for me to be near drug addicts?
Yeah. Really. It's kind of sad.
It's just funny you said " drug addicts" specifically.

 

[mwsapphire]

Sure thing. Good luck convincing an adcom. See the OP.

....just skip the sarcasm man. I really do see plenty of underserved people, but yeah, I can see why separate, non clinical volunteering would be needed to convey altruism, I just don't think it's a huge , gaping hole in an application.

I was thinking of doing more masjid work this summer ( before seeing this thread)

 

[Dr.Sticks]

In all seriousness, yes. The hospital I volunteer at is in a poor area, and you see lots of people who don't have adequate health insurance/ what not, or people who don't understand their illness. On my last ER visit, I saw this old lady who barely spoke any english and barely understood what was going on.

Yeah but you can't really help that person
You're not a nurse or a doctor

You know where you could make more of a difference? Reading books to cancer patients, volunteering in a free clinic that aids undocumented migrants/poor people, volunteering with drug addicts
Clinical/non-clinical

I didn't do ER volunteering for a reason
I would be a Cary pusher or something else basic..
You are checking a box but it isn't meaningful

I apologize in advance if I am misinterpreting something, but that is how I see it.

 

[mwsapphire]

Yeah but you can't really help that person
You're not a nurse or a doctor

You know where you could make more of a difference? Reading books to cancer patients, volunteering in a free clinic that aids undocumented migrants/poor people, volunteering with drug addicts
Clinical/non-clinical

I didn't do ER volunteering for a reason
I would be a Cary pusher or something else basic..
You are checking a box but it isn't meaningful

I apologize in advance if I am misinterpreting something, but that is how I see it.

Well , I do love the ER / hospital environment, so I think I'll stick with it, but add in something else. More masjid work, or even just adding hospice volunteering ( or would that be clinical as well? )

 

[Dr.Sticks]

I was actually going to do phlebotomy training, but my mother is suuuuper afraid for me to be near drug addicts?
Yeah. Really. It's kind of sad.
It's just funny you said " drug addicts" specifically.

What does she think being a doctor is?
Not all your patients are Hollywood stars
Or some suburban white people with a perfect life, 3 kids and a dog with a white picket fence..

People smell, they will piss all over you, take a dump on you, they will vomit all over, etc
Medicine is a stinky, smelly business

Peoples blood will potentially get on you...

 

[gonnif]

My husband has taken a second job and now the dog doesnt get walked much, the house is always a mess, home cooked meals are few and our physical intimacy is almost nonexistent.

What are your rates for hire?

perhaps the comment about physical intimacy followed by rates for hire wasnt the best word order. Though with the GOP in power, the free market economy will be expanding into new areas

 

[mwsapphire]

What does she think being a doctor is?
Not all your patients are Hollywood stars
Or some suburban white people with a perfect life, 3 kids and a dog with a white picket fence..

People smell, they will piss all over you, take a dump on you, they will vomit all over, etc
Medicine is a stinky, smelly business

Peoples blood will potentially get on you...

I know , I know. But for now, I'll just let her have this one ( we disagree on a lotttt of things. Let's just not go there. There are plenty of unruls people in the ER for me to see , I;m pretty solid about adding the mosque volunteering, it's a food drive, and we deliver food to poorer neighborhoods)

 

[libertyyne]

....just skip the sarcasm man. I really do see plenty of underserved people, but yeah, I can see why separate, non clinical volunteering would be needed to convey altruism, I just don't think it's a huge , gaping hole in an application.

I was thinking of doing more masjid work this summer ( before seeing this thread)

If you know everything, why are you even here?
I would skip the sarcasm ,but my eyes would detach from the aggressive eye rolling.