What would you do if you were in my shoes

[Arcite]

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Hello all,

Currently i'm a Senior at my University with Biochemistry/Molecular Biology as a major. I'm wondering what course of action you would take in order to get a medical school spot given my exact statistics.

-Predicted Graduation GPA: 2.72
-MCAT not taken yet
-100+ hours clinical volunteer work
-300+ hours volunteering in UCSF lab
-two confirmed letters of rec: one from UCSF MD/PHD another from UCSF associate chair of education
- Am both URM (Salvadoran) and raised in a low-income area
- Age: 21

The options i've considered:

-retake classes at a Cal State Hayward
-try to retake coursework at SFSU
-try to enroll in a post bac at SFSU and spend a year doing coursework in program
-try to enroll at UC berk Ext take courses (heard this wasn't a good choice)
- Study up the MCAT for 6 months after I graduate this coming august, take it and apply broadly to a number of different med schools
- Try to use my UCSF connections to get into UCSF postbac (2.93 Min GPA/ 2.71 Min BCMP GPA
- Try to use my UCSF connections to try and get enrolled into an actual medical school (This option is incredibly unrealistic and is just mentioned because I understand that the people you know can have enormous influence).

As I said, i'm 21 years old and have a passion to get into medical school. My GPA started off very low because I had no drive whatsoever. Thankfully, I managed to raise it from 2.1-2.6 in about a year while taking some upper div science courses.

-I am willing to put in as much time as it takes to get into an MD program
-Do not want to attend a DO school (Its my decision based on what I want to do with my life, I don't mean to insult anyone)

Please let me know what you would do if you were in my situation, or if you have any other advice that might help me decide which path to choose in order to get into an MD program someday,

Thanks in advance.

P.S. My gpa is terrible i know =(

 

[Catalystik]

I'd do two years of straight A postbac ( or could do this in four years and work part-time), get the GPA >2.92, accumulate appropriate ECs, and apply to the SMP you mentioned.

 

[hippocraticoath]

I'd give up on medicine cause with that kind of GPA (and attitude towards the DO profession), nothing short of winning a Nobel Prize will make you competitive

 

[BlueElmo]

I'd give up on medicine cause with that kind of GPA (and attitude towards the DO profession), nothing short of winning a Nobel Prize will make you competitive

That's kind of harsh. I mean he could do an SMP or master's degree to do something about that GPA. I wouldn't give up medicine.

 

[Arcite]

I'd give up on medicine cause with that kind of GPA (and attitude towards the DO profession), nothing short of winning a Nobel Prize will make you competitive

Sorry if I insulted you. I have nothing against the DO schools, its just that I don't want to attend one. Its my personal preference.

 

[Arcite]

I'd do two years of straight A postbac ( or could do this in four years and work part-time), get the GPA >2.92, accumulate appropriate ECs, and apply to the SMP you mentioned.

Thanks, thats solid advice.

 

[Morsetlis]

Poster child of why a BCH major isn't for everybody.

 

[JonBonesJones]

1) You're ECs are actually fairly weak, if the only things you have are ++volunteering.

2) UC Extension courses are a good option if you're able to perform well in them, as the program has a solid and ever increasing record of pre-med school acceptances, but they are super pricey.

3) Just because you grew-up in a low income area does not mean you qualify as socio-economically disadvantaged. Check with an adviser to see if you actually qualify.

4) If you are against DO, than I wouldn't retake courses (unless you received grades <C). DO uses grade replacement, MD doesn't. In your position, I might stick to taking upper division science course not yet completed (look for BPCM courses in anthro, psych, earth science. I imagine you might run out of bio courses since you are MCB).


If I were in your position, I would take science courses 3/4 enrollment status for 1.5 years. If you can get a 4.0 in these courses, you should break the 3.0 barrier. During this time I would do some hardcore primary care/community clinic activities. For your 4th semester, I would take one course and study for the MCAT. FULL TIME. It is crucial that you score highly, to show schools that despite your GPA, your have the ability to succeed. Apply to a one year SMP, do fantastic. I don't know much about the UCSF program, but make sure it is an SMP and not a post-bac. Apply early to ~25 of the least selective schools, and cross your fingers.

 

[surftheiop]

Quick question to all of those saying do "Blah blah... and then take SMP"

Wouldn't it be better to do "Blah... blah". And then attempt to apply to medical school? Remember the OP is an URM, and it only takes 1 acceptance.

Besides the couple K it would cost, I see no reason to jump to a SMP before at least trying to get in without it.

 

[Morsetlis]

You could always apply every single year, but it does cost time money and effort to apply.

 

[Elpenor]

At first I saw Predicted Graduation GPA: 2.72
and I Loll'ed heartily

but then i saw

-URM

I suggest applying to Harvard, Johns Hopkins, and maybe Yale as a safety

 

[mfrizzo3]

I would give your shoes back

 

[surftheiop]

Ignore the jerks, not sure why they get such joy out of making snarky remarks

 

[MilkmanAl]

What's your rationale for not wanting to go to DO school? That is by far your easiest out at this point. If you're planning on doing some super-competitive specialty that would be even harder than usual to get in from a DO school, you are putting the cart before the horse to an extreme degree. With a GPA that low, chances are not terribly good that you'll excel enough in med school to qualify for such a specialty anyway, regardless of which two letters come after your name. Basically, you need to be sure you're excluding DO schools for a good reason and not out of ignorance.

Moving to WAMC.

 

[Arcite]

Lmao. I really like Elpenor's comment.

Thanks for the advice everyone especially Milkman and Jonbonesjones.

And yeah Biochem was a terrible decision on my part, but to be truthful it wasn't so much the biochemistry courses (got B's) it was actually everything at the beginning of college that killed me. I guess its because in high school I didn't have to do anything to get through my courses and then BAM when you get to a university it becomes a lot more difficult

Surftheihop, my logic for wanting to just apply right out with a 2.72 is in part based on what you were saying. I mean, I hear and have read (mulitple times on this very forum) that URMs and and non-URM students get accepted with GPA's around and below a 3.0.

Sorry if the URM thing is insulting but the truth of the matter is that I need to take advantage of anything that can potentially help me to stand out when I apply to med schools. I once thought the URM status was a pretty lame thing to consider back when I was in my sophomore year, but now I realize its value.

 

[JonBonesJones]

Look, the URM status helps to a degree, but you seem to be mis-interpreting the importance of a GPA. The GPA is used as a prediction tool to determine whether an applicant is able to handle the rigors of medical school. Nobody wants to waste time and money on students who are simply going to fail once in medical school. Thus, no matter what your ethnic status, be it white/black/hispanic/martian, schools will want to see a minimum academic threshold.

http://aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/start.htm

Download #19, matriculant data by race. The average accepted stats for minorities are still ~3.5, with MCAT ~29. Not a huge difference from overall accepted stats. Note that Puerto Rican acceptees have significantly lower scores, due to their "state" schools.

The reason people say you should complete a SMP is because this will override (kind of) the poor predictive value of your hopeful 3.0. Med schools are risk adverse; you need to give them something they can bite onto.

 

[DrSmooth]

If it were me I would do 1 year of full-time straight A postbacc work to show that I can perform academically, continue clinical volunteering, study for and do well (33+) on the MCAT next June, and then apply to 29 well-chosen schools. Then I would work on strong secondaries, hone my interviewing skills, and keep following up with schools. If I did not get accepted I would strongly consider a Carrib school. I personally would also not have ruled out DO schools under the circumstances.

 

[shiftingmirage]

I would sit down and take the MCAT. If you can get a decent score, you may, after lots of hoops, get in to an MD school. idk what a decent score in your situation is, maybe 27 or so. If you're getting low 20's, I would say your hopes are slim.

This may seem really weird, but I highly suggest you move once you finish college. Sounds like you're a Cali resident. Cali schools, even state schools, are much harder to get into than other schools. If you look at a state like Texas, the stats are lower than most schools (not to mention Texas med schools, are ridiculously cheap compared to most schools. I'm taking 10-15k a year for tuition for state residents).

There was a thread in pre-allo I think about programs aimed at those coming from disadvantaged backgrounds. They tend to have lower stats since those that apply have overcome more. You said you were low income, I'm unfamiliar with these programs, but I would look into them. I'll try to find the thread link...

Here's the thread. I would look into the programs mentioned.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=670088

 

[Arcite]

No, i'm well aware that your gpa needs to be high. I know most applicants have around a 3.4-3.7. I didn't create this thread to focus on the URM status at all to be honest. It just seemed to catch people's eye. I'm concerned with planning my future correctly so that I can compensate for the mistakes I made as an undergrad.

The URM status was only thrown in for completion. I'm looking for responses with advice on what I need to do in order to improve my academics. Timing and scheduling are the two things i'm worried about.

Mentioning that I was URM was clearly a big mistake.

Look, the URM status helps to a degree, but you seem to be mis-interpreting the importance of a GPA. The GPA is used as a prediction tool to determine whether an applicant is able to handle the rigors of medical school. Nobody wants to waste time and money on students who are simply going to fail once in medical school. Thus, no matter what your ethnic status, be it white/black/hispanic/martian, schools will want to see a minimum academic threshold.

http://aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/start.htm

Download #19, matriculant data by race. The average accepted stats for minorities are still ~3.5, with MCAT ~29. Not a huge difference from overall accepted stats. Note that Puerto Rican acceptees have significantly lower scores, due to their "state" schools.

The reason people say you should complete a SMP is because this will override (kind of) the poor predictive value of your hopeful 3.0. Med schools are risk adverse; you need to give them something they can bite onto.

 

[MilkmanAl]

URM status helps, but it gets overplayed by lots and lots and lots of people on this site. What you need to do is either:
1) Retake classes you got C's or worse in and shoot for DO schools.

2)Retake anything you got a C- or worse in, take a bunch of extra science courses to bolster your GPA above a 3.0, and apply MD. Continue taking classes during your application year, and apply to SMP's if you don't get in. Reapply during your SMP year, and kick butt in the SMP to prove you belong in med school.

3) Failing 1 and 2, head to the Caribbean.

The first option, in my opinion, is by far the most intelligent way to go about salvaging your chances. With A's in your retakes, your GPA will skyrocket, and you'll be a qualified candidate within a year, assuming a workable MCAT score.

Option 2 will take much more work, necessitates a pretty darn good MCAT score (say, 33+), and is far higher risk. Above-average or worse performance in your additional science courses will prolong the road ahead of you considerably and will also show that you haven't gotten your academic act together. If the SMP rolls around, and you don't crush it, you're sunk. No MD school - and probably no DO school - will accept you if you've proven you can't hack med school.

Option 3, the Caribbean, is always the last resort of last resorts.

As someone who struggled through an application cycle with a crap GPA, I can tell you for sure that I wish I'd had someone force me into applying to DO schools. It would have made my life infinitely easier. Of course, I didn't know they existed, but you obviously don't have that problem. 😉

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Well this is a pretty nice situation you've gotten yourself into. I would like to know why you don't wish to attend a DO school. Secondly I'll tell you right now that 2 years of straight A's in post-bacc's is a reach. I doubt if you scored below a 3.0 in your major that you'll manage straight A's. Realistically i'm going to say right now you'll be going to the carib.
The only thing I can possibly see as a way to get into a US medical school is by retaking as many of your C+>( C+ and worse and then getting min B+) courses and applying to DO. Otherwise you've got nearly zero chances at a US/MD school.

 

[indianjatt]

IMO if you are that stuck up things will likely not go in your favor. It's like saying "I got a 1900 SAT, but I will only go to Harvard and no where else(no offense just my preference)." You need to be more realistic and realize that yes you made a mistake and there is a chance at going to an MD, but taking DO out altogether, is not very wise. Doing two years of post-bac will not guarantee you getting your GPA any higher or an acceptance, neither will an SMP (you have to do well in both and if you screw up in an SMP it's detrimental).

If you are still stuck on MD, study hard and ace all your classes until graduation, enroll in a post-bacc, get straight As, get research, shadow doctors, and study hard for the MCAT.

Good luck!

 

[surftheiop]

If you are fluent in Spanish (which i suspect you might be) then the puerto rico MD schools might be easier to get into than some others.

 

[Geekchick921]

I agree with everything MilkmanAl said.

Has anyone informed you that, when calculating GPA, the AAMCOS will completely replace the grades for classes you've retaken? The AMCAS will only average the two courses. Retaking many of your sciences classes will give you a much larger boost to your GPA when it comes to applying to DO schools.

I'd really like to know why you're so opposed to the idea of becoming a DO. I've worked with so many that were great doctors (some of which are specialists in very competitive specialties). No one cares nearly as much as the MD/DO debate as uptight pre-meds.