What’s a fair stipend for this call?

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caligas

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medium size city. Somewhat desirable but it ain’t San Diego. People leave as fast they come.
1000 open hearts per year.
Full time folks and locums folks have option to take overnight heart calls. pager call only. 1 in 4 chance of call back to do a washout or something like a dissection or trauma that requires heart surgeon. $225 per hour for time in OR if called in. Also, if a room runs “late” call person relieves them and earns that rate. Stipend paid just to carry the beeper. (And respond, presumably)

I know there’s more questions but just do your best:

How much to carry the pager?

$200?
$2000?
Tree Fiddy?
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caligas said:
medium size city. Somewhat desirable but it ain’t San Diego. People leave as fast they come.
1000 open hearts per year.
Full time folks and locums folks have option to take overnight heart calls. pager call only. 1 in 4 chance of call back to do a washout or something like a dissection or trauma that requires heart surgeon. $225 per hour for time in OR if called in. Also, if a room runs “late” call person relieves them and earns that rate. Stipend paid just to carry the beeper. (And respond, presumably)

I know there’s more questions but just do your best:

How much to carry the pager?

$200?
$2000?
Tree Fiddy?
Click to expand...

Recent locums job in NYC I heard was $200/hr doing general cases. $225/hr for hearts is nowhere near enough IMO
 
Just to carry- a few hundred.
But I would rather negotiate a flat call rate whether I work or not. Something over $2000/night.
 
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I was told 2500/24 hours. Weekend general call. This is in the northeast, suburb of NYC, if there such a thing. Saturday is hit or miss, at least in OR from 7-3. But you carry pager/30 mins response time.

I’ve always thought that was very low. But there are people who still take those.
 
IMGASMD said:
I was told 2500/24 hours. Weekend general call. This is in the northeast, suburb of NYC, if there such a thing. Saturday is hit or miss, at least in OR from 7-3. But you carry pager/30 mins response time.

I’ve always thought that was very low. But there are people who still take those.
Click to expand...

Do you get more if called in, or is that flat no matter what you work?
 
Flat rate. I guess I’m saying.... you make about 1800 for the working time (7-3). it works out to be approx 50-70/hr holding pager?
 
Robotic Wis-Hipple said:
One day at a time? Or more than 1 days in a row? I’ve never done locums, but if just carrying the call pager overnight is $200/hr I’m way underpaid.
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Each day gets its own stipend for carrying pager. Usually not done multiple in a row. The hourly rates people are talking about for actual work done in the OR.
 
caligas said:
Each day gets its own stipend for carrying pager. Usually not done multiple in a row. The hourly rates people are talking about for actual work done in the OR.
Click to expand...

You need to make sure you're getting paid (well) for holding the pager if you've got a 25% call back rate, not just OR time if you get called in. Youre still technically giving your time even if youre sitting in the hotel watching Netflix.
 
vector2 said:
You need to make sure you're getting paid (well) for holding the pager if you've got a 25% call back rate, not just OR time if you get called in. Youre still technically giving your time even if youre sitting in the hotel watching Netflix.
Click to expand...

Agree. How much is fair?
 
caligas said:
medium size city. Somewhat desirable but it ain’t San Diego. People leave as fast they come.
1000 open hearts per year.
Full time folks and locums folks have option to take overnight heart calls. pager call only. 1 in 4 chance of call back to do a washout or something like a dissection or trauma that requires heart surgeon. $225 per hour for time in OR if called in. Also, if a room runs “late” call person relieves them and earns that rate. Stipend paid just to carry the beeper. (And respond, presumably)

I know there’s more questions but just do your best:

How much to carry the pager?

$200?
$2000?
Tree Fiddy?
Click to expand...

Who are you negotiating with? Directly with hospital or lucums agency?
 
$2000-2500 per day and then $1000-$1500 per heart is not unheard of if you work directly with the hospital.
I’ve worked these rates before as locums.
Straight cardiac. No general
 
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if I'm making $225/hr while working overnight, that probably works out to something like $2000-$2500 if I get called in. For just having the pager turned on, a couple hundred (say $300-$500) is probably fair understanding I'll get paid the hourly rate on top of that if I get called in.
 
In these situations, do you want to be called or not? I think these holding pager calls are weird. I think just get a flat rate and take your chances that way.... I did some Hospitalist work. Provided had to stay in house. But whether I admit or not, I get paid the same way.
 
IMGASMD said:
In these situations, do you want to be called or not? I think these holding pager calls are weird. I think just get a flat rate and take your chances that way.... I did some Hospitalist work. Provided had to stay in house. But whether I admit or not, I get paid the same way.
Click to expand...
Yeah plus when does the clock start and stop? When you get called? Room time? What if the surgeons don’t show up for 2 hours?
Simpler to have a set rate for the call.
 
IMGASMD said:
In these situations, do you want to be called or not? I think these holding pager calls are weird. I think just get a flat rate and take your chances that way.... I did some Hospitalist work. Provided had to stay in house. But whether I admit or not, I get paid the same way.
Click to expand...
Staying in house and home call are totally different. In house call is gonna get a much higher fee. Because you can't leave.
 
nolagas said:
Yeah plus when does the clock start and stop? When you get called? Room time? What if the surgeons don’t show up for 2 hours?
Simpler to have a set rate for the call.
Click to expand...
Simpler, but it depends on how busy the service is. Unless you are able to negotiate rates like Sevo, that is.
 
nolagas said:
Yeah plus when does the clock start and stop? When you get called? Room time? What if the surgeons don’t show up for 2 hours?
Simpler to have a set rate for the call.
Click to expand...

all of our calls are like that (though we don't get paid for any of them they are just part of the work in your salary), so when people buy/sell call from each other it's just for a flat rate and you take your chances on whether or not you have to work. So home call might be something like $1000-$2000 for the shift and if you work you work, if you don't you don't, but the money is what it is.
 
chocomorsel said:
Staying in house and home call are totally different. In house call is gonna get a much higher fee. Because you can't leave.
Click to expand...

Yes. I just find that concept strange, since calls where I am are usually unpredictable. 1/4 times, first call will get called back for something. It also depends on whether this is your regular income stream. If this is just icing on the cake or my main income will dictate how aggressive I negotiate for the “fair” rate.
 
caligas said:
medium size city. Somewhat desirable but it ain’t San Diego. People leave as fast they come.
1000 open hearts per year.
Full time folks and locums folks have option to take overnight heart calls. pager call only. 1 in 4 chance of call back to do a washout or something like a dissection or trauma that requires heart surgeon. $225 per hour for time in OR if called in. Also, if a room runs “late” call person relieves them and earns that rate. Stipend paid just to carry the beeper. (And respond, presumably)

I know there’s more questions but just do your best:

How much to carry the pager?

$200?
$2000?
Tree Fiddy?
Click to expand...


Weekday rate- $300-$500 for carrying the "beeper". $225 per hour with a minimum time of 3 hours (you get paid for 3 hours if called in no matter what)

Weekend rate- $700-$1000 for carrying the beeper. $225 per hour with a minimum time of 3 hours

if you want the gig those are "fair" terms. If you really could care less (like many of us in our later years) up the ante on weekends to at least $1,000 for carrying the beeper per 24 hours.
 
BLADEMDA said:
Weekday rate- $300-$500 for carrying the "beeper". $225 per hour with a minimum time of 3 hours (you get paid for 3 hours if called in no matter what)

Weekend rate- $700-$1000 for carrying the beeper. $225 per hour with a minimum time of 3 hours

if you want the gig those are "fair" terms. If you really could care less (like many of us in our later years) up the ante on weekends to at least $1,000 for carrying the beeper per 24 hours.
Click to expand...

Clear and informative answer.
 
Totally unrelated to OP but this was the first “what’s this call worth?” thread I could find.

Recently approached by my group about weekend call at one of our outlying sites. It’s a pretty sleepy community hospital but has been a thorn in the side of our weekend call team for years, primarily because some of the surgeons will call in for late lap appys/choles that could clearly wait til next morning. So our group is looking to make weekend call at this site “beeper call” where one doc would be essentially on home call for this site for the weekend, and it would ideally be allotted on a volunteer basis with a stipend per weekend.

I’m young and hungry, and live relatively close to this site (closer than my partners). They assume (rightly) that I would like to make some extra money. So they are wondering what $$$/weekend it would take to make me wanna sign up for a bunch of these. First number thrown out was $2000/weekend. Call back is totally hit-or-miss, I don’t have a good handle on any specific data re: weekend call-in rates but just in general does that seem low for an entire weekend “holding the pager”?
 
NightNight said:
Totally unrelated to OP but this was the first “what’s this call worth?” thread I could find.

Recently approached by my group about weekend call at one of our outlying sites. It’s a pretty sleepy community hospital but has been a thorn in the side of our weekend call team for years, primarily because some of the surgeons will call in for late lap appys/choles that could clearly wait til next morning. So our group is looking to make weekend call at this site “beeper call” where one doc would be essentially on home call for this site for the weekend, and it would ideally be allotted on a volunteer basis with a stipend per weekend.

I’m young and hungry, and live relatively close to this site (closer than my partners). They assume (rightly) that I would like to make some extra money. So they are wondering what $$$/weekend it would take to make me wanna sign up for a bunch of these. First number thrown out was $2000/weekend. Call back is totally hit-or-miss, I don’t have a good handle on any specific data re: weekend call-in rates but just in general does that seem low for an entire weekend “holding the pager”?
Click to expand...
Yes
 
NightNight said:
Totally unrelated to OP but this was the first “what’s this call worth?” thread I could find.

Recently approached by my group about weekend call at one of our outlying sites. It’s a pretty sleepy community hospital but has been a thorn in the side of our weekend call team for years, primarily because some of the surgeons will call in for late lap appys/choles that could clearly wait til next morning. So our group is looking to make weekend call at this site “beeper call” where one doc would be essentially on home call for this site for the weekend, and it would ideally be allotted on a volunteer basis with a stipend per weekend.

I’m young and hungry, and live relatively close to this site (closer than my partners). They assume (rightly) that I would like to make some extra money. So they are wondering what $$$/weekend it would take to make me wanna sign up for a bunch of these. First number thrown out was $2000/weekend. Call back is totally hit-or-miss, I don’t have a good handle on any specific data re: weekend call-in rates but just in general does that seem low for an entire weekend “holding the pager”?
Click to expand...


Yes, that is low. Your time is valuable even when you're not in the hospital, and every second you're holding that pager is time that you can't go out of town, plan an important function, or share a bottle of wine with the missus, etc. I would counter with $1500-2000 per 24 hr period plus a bonus rate for actually getting called in.
 
NightNight said:
First number thrown out was $2000/weekend. Call back is totally hit-or-miss, I don’t have a good handle on any specific data re: weekend call-in rates but just in general does that seem low for an entire weekend “holding the pager”?
Click to expand...

The answer is it depends on how often you get called in. If it's less than 50/50 that you even set foot in the hospital during the weekend, $2000 seems pretty good for doing nothing except staying in town for the weekend. If on the other hand you are probably going to have to go in 1 or both days including maybe middle of the night, probably not worth it.
 
Thanks for responses.

It is truly hit or miss at this hospital. Could easily not hear a word all weekend, or get called in at 2am Saturday night for an uncomplicated appy.

I have already been told we wont do a flat rate + hourly rate, so maybe counter with $3000 to hold the phone all weekend?
 
Well, to tie that into my call question, Blade (and several agreed) argued that $1000 is reasonable for 24 hour weekend call with a 1/4 call back chance. If you make that sat AND sun, that would be $2000 to carry the “beeper” with about a 50-50 chance of working and earning the additional hourly rate. This would not include Friday night.

Just as a comparison. Obviously apples to oranges to some degree.
 
If you guys are paid a stipend to take call there (you should be if it’s a small, not busy community hospital), you should ask to be paid 2/365 x annual stipend (or 3/365 if you are covering Friday too). So for 500k annual stipend, that would be $2,700 for Sat/Sun or $4,100 for Fri/Sat/Sun. This assumes any cases you do will be eat what you kill on top of the flat rate.

This is how I look at it, but that is through my lens of being a partner in a large democratic (non-hierarchical) group.
 
caligas said:
Well, to tie that into my call question, Blade (and several agreed) argued that $1000 is reasonable for 24 hour weekend call with a 1/4 call back chance. If you make that sat AND sun, that would be $2000 to carry the “beeper” with about a 50-50 chance of working and earning the additional hourly rate. This would not include Friday night.

Just as a comparison. Obviously apples to oranges to some degree.
Click to expand...
This is NOT a bad deal. Given the current state of affairs in anesthesia and medicine in general, you're basically getting paid to chill and watch TV with the fam and maybe get called to do a heart, which if you have good heart surgeons, typically don't take forever. Give me 1k per call and $200 and hr if needed any day of the week. Now if I have to park my butt inside a hospital then it may be a different story.
 
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Physio -

Good on you.

There are multiple cliches applicable: take everything with a grain of salt, right place at the right time, and all politics is local. IF you can find the places where there is true demand (and respect) for critical care services, you will be rewarded - professionally, intellectually, and financially.

I presume the same is true for any specialty; the trick is finding these places...
 
bigdan said:
Physio -

Good on you.

There are multiple cliches applicable: take everything with a grain of salt, right place at the right time, and all politics is local. IF you can find the places where there is true demand (and respect) for critical care services, you will be rewarded - professionally, intellectually, and financially.

I presume the same is true for any specialty; the trick is finding these places...
Click to expand...

If you can be happy at BFA. Plenty of well paying jobs there.
 
NightNight said:
Totally unrelated to OP but this was the first “what’s this call worth?” thread I could find.

Recently approached by my group about weekend call at one of our outlying sites. It’s a pretty sleepy community hospital but has been a thorn in the side of our weekend call team for years, primarily because some of the surgeons will call in for late lap appys/choles that could clearly wait til next morning. So our group is looking to make weekend call at this site “beeper call” where one doc would be essentially on home call for this site for the weekend, and it would ideally be allotted on a volunteer basis with a stipend per weekend.

I’m young and hungry, and live relatively close to this site (closer than my partners). They assume (rightly) that I would like to make some extra money. So they are wondering what $$$/weekend it would take to make me wanna sign up for a bunch of these. First number thrown out was $2000/weekend. Call back is totally hit-or-miss, I don’t have a good handle on any specific data re: weekend call-in rates but just in general does that seem low for an entire weekend “holding the pager”?
Click to expand...

Depends on how “sleepy” the call is. It could fit Blades scenario above.

Obviously the first number is meant to be counteroffered. This is your own group so I wThe money they pay has to come from somewhere or someone. If they are “selling” the call then... see below
IMGASMD said:
If you can be happy at BFA. Plenty of well paying jobs there.
Click to expand...
?BFA? Where is that? Alaska? Alabama? Africa? Where? Curious to know.
 
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NightNight said:
Totally unrelated to OP but this was the first “what’s this call worth?” thread I could find.

Recently approached by my group about weekend call at one of our outlying sites. It’s a pretty sleepy community hospital but has been a thorn in the side of our weekend call team for years, primarily because some of the surgeons will call in for late lap appys/choles that could clearly wait til next morning. So our group is looking to make weekend call at this site “beeper call” where one doc would be essentially on home call for this site for the weekend, and it would ideally be allotted on a volunteer basis with a stipend per weekend.

I’m young and hungry, and live relatively close to this site (closer than my partners). They assume (rightly) that I would like to make some extra money. So they are wondering what $$$/weekend it would take to make me wanna sign up for a bunch of these. First number thrown out was $2000/weekend. Call back is totally hit-or-miss, I don’t have a good handle on any specific data re: weekend call-in rates but just in general does that seem low for an entire weekend “holding the pager”?
Click to expand...
Sign me up.
 
chocomorsel said:
Depends on how “sleepy” the call is. It could fit Blades scenario above.

Obviously the first number is meant to be counteroffered. This is your own group so I wThe money they pay has to come from somewhere or someone. If they are “selling” the call then

?BFA? Where is that? Alaska? Alabama? Africa? Where? Curious to know.
Click to expand...

I could probably thrive in Accra.....Anchorage I'm not so sure. (No offense to AK)
 
Twiggidy said:
I could probably thrive in Accra.....Anchorage I'm not so sure. (No offense to AK)
Click to expand...

The first two sentences were meant for Night Night. From yesterday but decided not to post. Guess my phone remembered it.

I am with you @Twiggidy. About the call that is.
Accra, yes, but on the East Coast equivalent of Africa. Alaska is too damn cold for black folks. Lol

Also, if @NightNight is getting paid by his own group, the money has to come from somewhere. Not thin air. So even if it seems low, if that's all the stipend they are getting then it's fair. I was going to ask him to look at the practice's books and from there see what they make from that hospital and ask for that.
It's not always about making the most money, especially when it's your own group. What if that's more than they even make as a stipend from that sleepy hospital? As someone suggested, base it on the stipend and if not, what is made in the 52 weekends and average it out.
 
chocomorsel said:
Depends on how “sleepy” the call is. It could fit Blades scenario above.

Obviously the first number is meant to be counteroffered. This is your own group so I wThe money they pay has to come from somewhere or someone. If they are “selling” the call then... see below

?BFA? Where is that? Alaska? Alabama? Africa? Where? Curious to know.
Click to expand...

Just meant bumble f America. I
Alabama is just as good as any. High paying jobs in Indiana too. But are you really looking there?
 
IMGASMD said:
Just meant bumble f America. I
Alabama is just as good as any. High paying jobs in Indiana too. But are you really looking there?
Click to expand...
Some of us like the backwoods country. City life ain’t for everybody.
So the answer to your question is yes. Totally looking in the backwoods of the South. Too skinny for the North.
 
IMGASMD said:
If you can be happy at BFA. Plenty of well paying jobs there.
Click to expand...

I'll take you at your word that there are plenty of well paying jobs in BFA. I don't work there, so I wouldn't know.

All I'm saying is these things often come down to supply and demand. There are hospitals/health systems (including in large cities) that need voids filled. The treatment you receive - professionally and financially - may be linked to how badly that void needs to be filled. That's all.
 
I used to get $4500 for a Friday 4 PM to Monday 7 AM home pager call. That was #2 Fri night, #1 Sat, #2 Sun in a "collaborative" model so I was technically on the hook for the other guy's #1 if he felt uncomfortable. No additional hourly rate if called in.

Usually did about 6-10 hours of gen surg / ortho on Sat and maybe a couple hours on Sun. Some weekends I did nothing. Rarely worked like a dog.

I thought that was a good deal and took every weekend they offered me. Hospital was 1/2 mile from my house. I'd still be doing it except the hospital is now about 3,000 and 1/2 miles from my house.
 
NightNight said:
Thanks for responses.

It is truly hit or miss at this hospital. Could easily not hear a word all weekend, or get called in at 2am Saturday night for an uncomplicated appy.

I have already been told we wont do a flat rate + hourly rate, so maybe counter with $3000 to hold the phone all weekend?
Click to expand...

$3k is a reasonable hard counter from your end if they are not amenable to an hourly rate + flat rate. If they provide some hard evidence that the callback is exceptionally low, then maybe your number can come down, but don't let them try to exploit you just cause they know you're young and hungry.
 
chocomorsel said:
Some of us like the backwoods country. City life ain’t for everybody.
So the answer to your question is yes. Totally looking in the backwoods of the South. Too skinny for the North.
Click to expand...

I’ve heard high 5 to mid 8, if you really hustle in Deep South. But what I remember, he was doing directive up to 8 also regional trained. Gets like 12 weeks of vacation. So it does exist.
 
Pretty busy level 2 trauma pays us $6k for 1-2-1 24 hour in house call.

$5k 2-1-2.

Very very very small chance of getting called in as backup (#2).
 
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