What's better higher Step 1 or Honors in clerkships?

[mybubbles627]

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Obviously everyone wants to kill Step 1 and honor all their rotations but not many people have that luxury. So I was curious, which is a better application:

Step 1 of 250 or so with no honors
Step 1 of 225 or so with all honors
Other combinations?

Basically how much can a step 1 score make up for 3rd year clerkships and how much can clerkships balance a Step 1 score? Which is more important?

 

[alpinism]

Step 1

Programs (especially the competitive ones) use step scores to screen applications. You could honor every rotation 3rd year but if you have a 225 and they have a 230 cutoff they won't even look at your grades.

 

[seminoma]

Obviously everyone wants to kill Step 1 and honor all their rotations but not many people have that luxury. So I was curious, which is a better application:

Step 1 of 250 or so with no honors
Step 1 of 225 or so with all honors
Other combinations?

Basically how much can a step 1 score make up for 3rd year clerkships and how much can clerkships balance a Step 1 score? Which is more important?

250 with no honors. Not all schools have the P/HP/H grading system. Step 1 is standardized.

 

[Jeffrety]

Let's split the difference OP. The best is 235 with honors only in the clerkship you're trying to get a residency in.

 

[mybubbles627]

Let's split the difference OP. The best is 235 with honors only in the clerkship you're trying to get a residency in.

Haha thanks. It wasn't for me specifically, more of a general question for discussion from talking to friends who all have various combinations of Step scores and clerkship grades and who would rather have what.

I know programs screen based on Step 1, but if you make that cutoff I have heard Step 1 doesn't matter and its more about 3rd year grades/LOR. So I was curious how much it would hurt you if you met the cutoff but then would that preclude you from getting an interview.

 

[pd1112]

I think it depends on which specialty & which type of program. LORs are also very important & usually make up the top 3 factors with Step 1 & Clerkship grades, per the annual survey FWIW:

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/PD-Survey-Report-2014.pdf

 

[cbrons]

More and more i talk to peeps who actually make the decisions the more im convinced LORs from reputable source > everything else

 

[mybubbles627]

More and more i talk to peeps who actually make the decisions the more im convinced LORs from reputable source > everything else

I have heard that program directors or chairs of departments that are well known can make a phone call and get students an interview but I don't think that is something to bank on. Who you know is definitely important when applying though.

 

[pd1112]

Except it's a horrible survey with no discriminative capability

Can you elaborate? I've looked at it a couple times and I agree; it's about impossible to conclude anything, but I've never asked anyone about it.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Can you elaborate? I've looked at it a couple and I agree; it's about impossible to conclude anything, but I've never asked anyone about it.

It's a likert scale and the lowest response is rated at like a 3.8 and most of the rest are from 3.8 to 4.2 on a five point scale.

So when people say something is one of the "top 3 factors" according to the survey, all that means is that factor #3 had a 4.1 and factors #4 thru #11 had a 3.9-4.0.

And on this 5 point scale, 5 is "extremely" important and 4 is "very" important.

So is it really meaningfully different to say that Step 2 scores are rated #4 and clerkship grades are rated #3, when all you are really saying is that when you average out the responses of hundreds of PDs, the factors differ by 0.1 on a 5 point scale?

To further complicate matters, you also have to look closely at the "percentage of PDs citing factor". Because some factors will be rated really highly, but only like 40% of PDs surveyed even listed it as a factor for resident selection. So how "important" is it really if over half of PDs claim to not even consider it?

--

This survey is one of my pet peeves because it gets tossed out constantly like some authoritative source, when it's totally meaningless. (e.g.: People will claim that EM programs value step 2 scores more than step 1 scores, because Step 2 is rated a tiny fraction of a point higher according to the survey...and all that really means is that PDs are saying both are "very" important)

 

[gobigorgohome22]

It's a likert scale and the lowest response is rated at like a 3.8 and most of the rest are from 3.8 to 4.2 on a five point scale.

So when people say something is one of the "top 3 factors" according to the survey, all that means is that factor #3 had a 4.1 and factors #4 thru #11 had a 3.9-4.0.

And on this 5 point scale, 5 is "extremely" important and 4 is "very" important.

So is it really meaningfully different to say that Step 2 scores are rated #4 and clerkship grades are rated #3, when all you are really saying is that when you average out the responses of hundreds of PDs, the factors differ by 0.1 on a 5 point scale?

To further complicate matters, you also have to look closely at the "percentage of PDs citing factor". Because some factors will be rated really highly, but only like 40% of PDs surveyed even listed it as a factor for resident selection. So how "important" is it really if over half of PDs claim to not even consider it?

--

This survey is one of my pet peeves because it gets tossed out constantly like some authoritative source, when it's totally meaningless. (e.g.: People will claim that EM programs value step 2 scores more than step 1 scores, because Step 2 is rated a tiny fraction of a point higher according to the survey...and all that really means is that PDs are saying both are "very" important)

Thank you for this assessment. First glance, I didnt realize the inconsistencies until you pointed them out.