What's the best order in which to take Pre-Med science courses?

[OldHope]

Greetings everyone,

I am about to start taking the necessary pre-med sciences (BIO I/II, Gen Chem I/II, Orgo Chem I/II & Physics I/II) at a local university and was interested in finding out what would be the best order in which to take them based on your experiences.

I have decent flexibility and plan to take 1 course per semester, but if I find that the material is bearable, might even consider taking up to 2 classes per semester. I would really like (as I'm sure everyone does) to get A's in all of the pre-med sciences and figure that one at a time would be a great way to maximize that potential.

About me: Almost 40yrs old, hold a BS + MS, did take numerous of the science requirements over 15 years ago, but would prefer to retake, score hire and truly learn the material in a way that can be helpful for the MCAT.

Anyhow, what are your suggestions in terms of the order in which these classes should be taken?

Thank you all in advance for your assistance/guidance,

OldHope

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[jamaica jan sun princess]

Start with chemistry, because there are four or five that must be taken in-sequence.

General Chemistry I > General Chemistry II > Organic Chemistry I > Organic Chemistry II > Biochemistry.

 

[OldHope]

Start with chemistry, because there are four or five that must be taken in-sequence.

General Chemistry I > General Chemistry II > Organic Chemistry I > Organic Chemistry II > Biochemistry.

Thank you for the feedback!

 

[BC_89]

I also think doing your Chemistry sequence up to Organic 2 would serve you well. Once Organic Chem is out of your life you may find the stamina to take on at least 2 Biology courses at a time (just remember the labs may take up extra time but shouldn’t be difficult).

 

[hamiltonnyc]

I'd actually ask the university since they have a better feel of their material.

For example, in some schools chem is a prerequisite for bio, but in ithers it's not or is a corequisite.

 

[Ad2b]

Chem 1, nothing else (simply as a gut check since you are older; I'm ultra non-trad student)

Chem 2 + Biology 1 (gen chem is pretty helpful for biology 1; YMMV)

Physics 1 + Biology 2

Physics 2 (maybe orgo 1 depending on full time work load and school + grades)

Orgo 1 + psych/soc class (it's on the MCAT)

Biochem + ** orgo 2 ** (orgo 2 is NOT required for many med schools; check the MSAR to see which ones; however, the lab stuff is tested on the MCAT)

Genetics (not required but helpful on MCAT; was on mine in various ways, even the one I voided)

 

[Goro]

Start with chemistry, because there are four or five that must be taken in-sequence.

General Chemistry I > General Chemistry II > Organic Chemistry I > Organic Chemistry II > Biochemistry.

I agree

 

[humblethinker]

Greetings everyone,

I am about to start taking the necessary pre-med sciences (BIO I/II, Gen Chem I/II, Orgo Chem I/II & Physics I/II) at a local university and was interested in finding out what would be the best order in which to take them based on your experiences.

I have decent flexibility and plan to take 1 course per semester, but if I find that the material is bearable, might even consider taking up to 2 classes per semester. I would really like (as I'm sure everyone does) to get A's in all of the pre-med sciences and figure that one at a time would be a great way to maximize that potential.

About me: Almost 40yrs old, hold a BS + MS, did take numerous of the science requirements over 15 years ago, but would prefer to retake, score hire and truly learn the material in a way that can be helpful for the MCAT.

Anyhow, what are your suggestions in terms of the order in which these classes should be taken?

Thank you all in advance for your assistance/guidance,

OldHope

Why not instead of invest the money and time to retake each prereq (since you already took them), use the money to enroll in a mcat prep course and use the time to focus on studying each content area within the depth and scope recommended by the aamc mcat guide? As long as you did well in your prereqs, it will not matter that they are 15 years old. Crush your mcat, it will prove you know your material now, and allow your life experiences to shine through in your application, essays and interviews.

 

[OldHope]

I also think doing your Chemistry sequence up to Organic 2 would serve you well. Once Organic Chem is out of your life you may find the stamina to take on at least 2 Biology courses at a time (just remember the labs may take up extra time but shouldn’t be difficult).

Thank you very much!

I wondered whether two BIO's (1 & 2) would be possible. I guess others have done this.

 

[OldHope]

Chem 1, nothing else (simply as a gut check since you are older; I'm ultra non-trad student)

Chem 2 + Biology 1 (gen chem is pretty helpful for biology 1; YMMV)

Physics 1 + Biology 2

Physics 2 (maybe orgo 1 depending on full time work load and school + grades)

Orgo 1 + psych/soc class (it's on the MCAT)

Biochem + ** orgo 2 ** (orgo 2 is NOT required for many med schools; check the MSAR to see which ones; however, the lab stuff is tested on the MCAT)

Genetics (not required but helpful on MCAT; was on mine in various ways, even the one I voided)

Can you speak on the necessity to take BioChem and Genetics?

From the basic research I've done, it looked as if many Med schools simply wanted the Chem 1/2 + Orgo 1/2 + Bio 1/2 + Physics 1/2. Are Biochem & Genetics requirements for many Med schools or are they simply a good idea for MCAT preparation?

Thanks for your feedback!

 

[OldHope]

I agree

Hi Goro,

Can you also comment on whether BioChem + Genetics are also needed vs good to take for better MCAT prep?

The sequence which you concurred with has the Biochem at the very end and I wanted to confirm whether this is in fact needed vs recommended (will be checking the MSAR as well).

 

[OldHope]

Why not instead of invest the money and time to retake each prereq (since you already took them), use the money to enroll in a mcat prep course and use the time to focus on studying each content area within the depth and scope recommended by the aamc mcat guide? As long as you did well in your prereqs, it will not matter that they are 15 years old. Crush your mcat, it will prove you know your material now, and allow your life experiences to shine through in your application, essays and interviews.

My concern is that having taken them back around 2000-2002 might present too much of a knowledge gap in those subjects, which could result in my not having enough to pull from for the MCATs. Also, how much of the pre-med sciences are used as a building block for the sciences taken in Med school?

Better said, spending money to retake these courses isn't great on my pocket, but will it be worth the fresh understanding that will be gained, which will then translate into better performance on the MCAT and during the first 2 years of Med school?

 

[humblethinker]

My concern is that having taken them back around 2000-2002 might present too much of a knowledge gap in those subjects, which could result in my not having enough to pull from for the MCATs. Also, how much of the pre-med sciences are used as a building block for the sciences taken in Med school?

Better said, spending money to retake these courses isn't great on my pocket, but will it be worth the fresh understanding that will be gained, which will then translate into better performance on the MCAT and during the first 2 years of Med school?

It will not be of much benefit for your first two years of medical school. Learning the material to perform well on the mcat is by far way more important than retaking the courses as long as your grades were good when you took them previously.

 

[OldHope]

It will not be of much benefit for your first two years of medical school. Learning the material to perform well on the mcat is by far way more important than retaking the courses as long as your grades were good when you took them previously.

Gotcha!

The issue is, as mentioned in my original post, that I took numerous of the science requirements, but not all of them. Gen Chem I + Bio I + Microbiology + Physics I + Psychology were taken years ago, but I still need to take Bio II + Chem II + Orgo I/II + Physics II.

In light of that, I want to be honest with myself and truly learn the material well. I can't pretend to remember all of those things that I learned when I was in my early 20's. Wish I could, but I'd be damned if I truly remembered the things I learned in Chem I or Bio I. This is simply my honest and humble stance on this.

What's interesting to know is that all of those science classes are of little help towards the material that is presented during the first two years of Med School. What classes are you taking once in Med School?

 

[Ad2b]

Can you speak on the necessity to take BioChem and Genetics?

The *only* section I did not see in-depth biochem in was CARS. It was in CP, BB, and Psy/Soc related to that which I cannot speak about or violate AAMC rules.

Knowing the amino acids, TCA, various pathways is all biochem; the genetics showed up in one full passage - basic biology will cover genetics to a degree but it was really nice to have that in hand with the upper division level genetics class (think of how hearing a term like Klinefelter's doesn't throw you, instead, instantly you know the genetic composition and possibly the P or Q issues - long short arm, mitotic or meiotic division issues, and therein, the probability caused by father/mother or recessive or dominant ... )

None of the schools I looked at (32 of them) required orgo 2. Some did suggest biochem over orgo 2, some were even more vague than that.

 

[jamaica jan sun princess]

Biochemistry makes up a significant portion of the MCAT. Some schools don't require you to take Organic Chemistry II before biochemistry. For example, my alma mater offers Principles of Biochemistry 3xxx and Biochemistry 5xxx. The 5xxx course has Organic Chemistry II as a prerequisite while the 3xxx one only requires Organic Chemistry I.

 

[Goro]

Hi Goro,

Can you also comment on whether BioChem + Genetics are also needed vs good to take for better MCAT prep?

The sequence which you concurred with has the Biochem at the very end and I wanted to confirm whether this is in fact needed vs recommended (will be checking the MSAR as well).

Biochem is heavy ont he MCAT, to my understanding.

I submit that you should have both as pre-reqs for med school.

 

[humblethinker]

Greetings everyone,

I am about to start taking the necessary pre-med sciences (BIO I/II, Gen Chem I/II, Orgo Chem I/II & Physics I/II) at a local university and was interested in finding out what would be the best order in which to take them based on your experiences.

I have decent flexibility and plan to take 1 course per semester, but if I find that the material is bearable, might even consider taking up to 2 classes per semester. I would really like (as I'm sure everyone does) to get A's in all of the pre-med sciences and figure that one at a time would be a great way to maximize that potential.

About me: Almost 40yrs old, hold a BS + MS, did take numerous of the science requirements over 15 years ago, but would prefer to retake, score hire and truly learn the material in a way that can be helpful for the MCAT.

Anyhow, what are your suggestions in terms of the order in which these classes should be taken?

Thank you all in advance for your assistance/guidance,

OldHope

Keep this in mind, there is a reason why many schools now only require a few prereqs and some no longer require a specific set of prereqs. They know that if you can do well on the mcat, you can handle the curriculum. This is backed up by a ton of data points. So, really, the only question to ask yourself is ....do you really think enrolling and spending time retaking coursework will help you perform better on the mcat? If your gpa is solid with your current coursework, along with the fact you have life experience, I would be willing to bet that you will be just as successful by allocating your time to mcat studying, rather than retaking courses. Noone will care if you have straight As and a low mcat. Your current transcript (assuming solid grades from years ago) plus a solid mcat will result in much more success. Remember, you are almost 40, you took a nontraditional path, there is no reason you should back away from that now....crush the mcat, talk about your life experiences, be genuine...and you will be successful during this process.

 

[esob]

I agree that your money could be better spent on a good prep course. The MCAT is so very specific and having gone to a big state school I can honestly say that 90+ % of my classes did little or nothing prepare me for the MCAT.

On a side note, I started my prereqs at 40 and got 4 acceptances this cycle, so you are still at an age where a decent portion of the schools won't discriminate against you due to age.

 

[OldHope]

Keep this in mind, there is a reason why many schools now only require a few prereqs and some no longer require a specific set of prereqs. They know that if you can do well on the mcat, you can handle the curriculum. This is backed up by a ton of data points. So, really, the only question to ask yourself is ....do you really think enrolling and spending time retaking coursework will help you perform better on the mcat? If your gpa is solid with your current coursework, along with the fact you have life experience, I would be willing to bet that you will be just as successful by allocating your time to mcat studying, rather than retaking courses. Noone will care if you have straight As and a low mcat. Your current transcript (assuming solid grades from years ago) plus a solid mcat will result in much more success. Remember, you are almost 40, you took a nontraditional path, there is no reason you should back away from that now....crush the mcat, talk about your life experiences, be genuine...and you will be successful during this process.

Really appreciate the useful details, as time is of the essence for me. I guess what I am trying to wrap my head around is what exactly is covered on the MCAT and how does your performance on the pre-med required sciences (gen chem, orgo, bio, biochem + physics) translate when it comes time to actually take the mcat?

The thing is that after reviewing maybe about 10-15 schools, I keep seeing the basic requirements as being a BS degree, a competitive cumulative + science GPA, specific sciences (gen chem 1/2, orgo chem 1/2, Bio 1/2, + Physics 1/2), competitive mcat score + recommendation letters + volunteering + life experiences etc.

You mentioned that many schools are now requiring less prereqs, which certainly sounds like a good deal for me, but would having less of these pre-med sciences make you less competitive when trying to apply to as many Med schools as possible? Also, which schools are the ones that require less pre-reqs? I find it a bit confusing that there wouldn't be a core set of science prerequisites that are absolutely necessary for admission into Med School.

I agree that your money could be better spent on a good prep course. The MCAT is so very specific and having gone to a big state school I can honestly say that 90+ % of my classes did little or nothing prepare me for the MCAT.

On a side note, I started my prereqs at 40 and got 4 acceptances this cycle, so you are still at an age where a decent portion of the schools won't discriminate against you due to age.

By 90%, do you mean the liberal arts fluff that is packaged into the curriculum required for graduation with a bachelors or do you mean the actual pre-med sciences?

Lastly, even though I plan to start taking the necessary (remaining) pre-reqs that I need starting this spring, when should I begin studying for the MCAT? This is what also has me confused, as I am not sure what material is covered on the MCAT and whether not having covered ALL of the pre-med sciences would place me at a disadvantage when trying to start the MCAT study process. In other words, will I purchase a review book or program and find myself having to skip through many sections, because I am still short of the numerous sciences that I have yet to take?

I know this is a long-winded post and likely difficult to navigate through, but I appreciate your opinions immensely!

OldHope

 

[esob]

No, the liberal arts classes I took actually helped me for CARS, but my science classes (biochem/genetics/bio I/II, etc) didn't help me much for the MCAT. Most of what I needed for the MCAT I taught myself. As far as timing, Jack Westin noted that you can't really retain info further than 4 months out from the test. I think for a lot of the material, that is probably correct, but I feel like the psych/soc is an exception. If I had it to do over again, I would have started Psych/soc about 6 months out and hammered down on it for 2 months straight, and then started doing predominantly biochem problem for the remaining 4 months prior to test day, with small reviews of psych/soc interspersed.

 

[humblethinker]

check the msar for organized prereq requirements by each school. many schools state that taking more than the required prereqs will not factor into an adcom decision. if you list the current prereqs you have and grades (regardless of when you took them) it will be easier to know if just focusing on the mcat is the best route.

 

[wholeheartedly]

there are a few med schools around the that do put expirations on prereqs, so check on that before making your decision. others just state they want some recent science coursework. some say nothing on the matter.

go to the AAMC website and download their MCAT content outlines and use that to help you evaluate your strengths and weaknesses. you can check out a free resource like khan academy MCAT and see how weak/strong you are before deciding. maybe you just need a refresher course or two in some weaker areas.

 

[OldHope]

No, the liberal arts classes I took actually helped me for CARS, but my science classes (biochem/genetics/bio I/II, etc) didn't help me much for the MCAT. Most of what I needed for the MCAT I taught myself. As far as timing, Jack Westin noted that you can't really retain info further than 4 months out from the test. I think for a lot of the material, that is probably correct, but I feel like the psych/soc is an exception. If I had it to do over again, I would have started Psych/soc about 6 months out and hammered down on it for 2 months straight, and then started doing predominantly biochem problem for the remaining 4 months prior to test day, with small reviews of psych/soc interspersed.

Psych + soc are both subjects I took years ago, but thoroughly enjoyed. I'm glad some aspects of both will be tested for on the MCAT.

 

[OldHope]

check the msar for organized prereq requirements by each school. many schools state that taking more than the required prereqs will not factor into an adcom decision. if you list the current prereqs you have and grades (regardless of when you took them) it will be easier to know if just focusing on the mcat is the best route.

Hey humble,

The prereqs I took and their grades are as follows:

Gen Chem I - A
Bio I A-
Microbiology A-
Physics I A
Psychology 1 A
Developmental Psych A

 

[OldHope]

there are a few med schools around the that do put expirations on prereqs, so check on that before making your decision. others just state they want some recent science coursework. some say nothing on the matter.

go to the AAMC website and download their MCAT content outlines and use that to help you evaluate your strengths and weaknesses. you can check out a free resource like khan academy MCAT and see how weak/strong you are before deciding. maybe you just need a refresher course or two in some weaker areas.

Will definitely do that. Ideally, I'd like to finish taking the additional remaining prereqs and concentrate closely on topics within those subjects that will definitely be tested for on the MCAT.

 

[precisiongraphic]

Will definitely do that. Ideally, I'd like to finish taking the additional remaining prereqs and concentrate closely on topics within those subjects that will definitely be tested for on the MCAT.

Since you may be rusty on Bio I to take Bio II and same for Gen Chem I and Physics I, I suggest getting a review book or undertake some kind of review before you jump in. This review will also provide a good foundation for the MCAT.

Using bio for example, look at a Bio I coursera or MIT open course for bio. Read the notes, watch the videos, take the exams. If you have a good memory and pick it up quickly, then you may be ready to take Bio II. If not, then you have a choice - take the foundation class again or self study some more. Same for the other classes.

Then these form a basis for O-Chem I and II so it wouldn't be recommended to take Ochem without Chemistry mastery. And then BioChem. Also, some schools require genetics so look into that with an eye toward potential schools.

After you've done those, MCAT prep is next and I agree with @esob that a prep class is the way to go to make sure any gaps are filled. After taking a few prereqs it will convince adcoms that you're ready for med school if coupled with a good MCAT. You could also get MCAT books and study along with your review of I/taking of II bio, chem and physics.

 

[Blanky]

Chem 1, nothing else (simply as a gut check since you are older; I'm ultra non-trad student)

Chem 2 + Biology 1 (gen chem is pretty helpful for biology 1; YMMV)

Physics 1 + Biology 2

Physics 2 (maybe orgo 1 depending on full time work load and school + grades)

Orgo 1 + psych/soc class (it's on the MCAT)

Biochem + ** orgo 2 ** (orgo 2 is NOT required for many med schools; check the MSAR to see which ones; however, the lab stuff is tested on the MCAT)

Genetics (not required but helpful on MCAT; was on mine in various ways, even the one I voided)

Gotcha!

The issue is, as mentioned in my original post, that I took numerous of the science requirements, but not all of them. Gen Chem I + Bio I + Microbiology + Physics I + Psychology were taken years ago, but I still need to take Bio II + Chem II + Orgo I/II + Physics II.

In light of that, I want to be honest with myself and truly learn the material well. I can't pretend to remember all of those things that I learned when I was in my early 20's. Wish I could, but I'd be damned if I truly remembered the things I learned in Chem I or Bio I. This is simply my honest and humble stance on this.

What's interesting to know is that all of those science classes are of little help towards the material that is presented during the first two years of Med School. What classes are you taking once in Med School?

I agree pretty closely with this plan but not entirely.
If you have bio 1, chem 1, and physics 1, with a C or higher then.....
Brush up on basic chemistry knowledge before chem2 (I could give you a pdf to review free)
Bio2 is going to be raw memorization. Use flash cards or Anki (you need to learn this sooner than later) and you will get an A pretty easily.
Chem2 is just checking your algebra skills
Physics 2 is going to be all algebra and more advanced than chem2.
Biochem needs to be taken right before your mcat prep.
Genetics can be taken pre or post mcat, but will compliment the exam, so will statistical analysis skills.
For Orgo get the David Klein second language books and prereqs that chapter (they are short) before the corresponding lecture.

I would say it’s going to vary depending on when summer hits for you....if taking one course at a time
Physics 2 (low yield better to take first)
(Insert Bio2 over the summer whenever summer comes)
Chem 2 (higher yield and will lead into Orgo)
Orgo 1
Orgo 2
Biochem
Mcat prep —> MCAT (preferred summer)
Genetics
Now you can apply and consider retaking chem1/bio1/physics1 to satisfy schools with time limits on prereqs. As the app cycle takes a full year you will have plenty of time to retake while getting into med.

You can adjust this based on when summer comes around. Bio2 is going to be preferred over the summer in my opinion as a lot of the material doesn’t relate and it’s just memorization.
If you keep the mcat for summer (study may—take end July) then you may be able to fit genetics in before that depending on how everything lays out.
If we knew your starting semester it would help.

 

[OldHope]

I agree pretty closely with this plan but not entirely.
If you have bio 1, chem 1, and physics 1, with a C or higher then.....
Brush up on basic chemistry knowledge before chem2 (I could give you a pdf to review free)
Bio2 is going to be raw memorization. Use flash cards or Anki (you need to learn this sooner than later) and you will get an A pretty easily.
Chem2 is just checking your algebra skills
Physics 2 is going to be all algebra and more advanced than chem2.
Biochem needs to be taken right before your mcat prep.
Genetics can be taken pre or post mcat, but will compliment the exam, so will statistical analysis skills.
For Orgo get the David Klein second language books and prereqs that chapter (they are short) before the corresponding lecture.

I would say it’s going to vary depending on when summer hits for you....if taking one course at a time
Physics 2 (low yield better to take first)
(Insert Bio2 over the summer whenever summer comes)
Chem 2 (higher yield and will lead into Orgo)
Orgo 1
Orgo 2
Biochem
Mcat prep —> MCAT (preferred summer)
Genetics
Now you can apply and consider retaking chem1/bio1/physics1 to satisfy schools with time limits on prereqs. As the app cycle takes a full year you will have plenty of time to retake while getting into med.

You can adjust this based on when summer comes around. Bio2 is going to be preferred over the summer in my opinion as a lot of the material doesn’t relate and it’s just memorization.
If you keep the mcat for summer (study may—take end July) then you may be able to fit genetics in before that depending on how everything lays out.
If we knew your starting semester it would help.

Man! That's a fantastic approach to the order in which to take the courses. I like how it makes sense and builds upon itself.

I have ordered the Klein books for Orgo 1/2, but also have a general chem I as a second language book ordered and on its way (hoping it could be helpful for chem 2).

Any online resources you folks would recommend (ideally free ones)? I am planning to use Khan academy for the science classes for review but is there anything else online that you would recommend? I was even looking into YouTube channels that reviews chem and orgo chem.

Appreciate everyone's input. Taking all of this information and generating a road map for better study.

 

[Blanky]

Basic reading of the periodic table. Basic periodic trends, electronegaticity, atomic radius etc etc. that’s the important stuff from chem1–> chem2
I can share a pdf with you if you wanna brush up
I cannot pm you

 

[doctorTtobe]

Basic reading of the periodic table. Basic periodic trends, electronegaticity, atomic radius etc etc. that’s the important stuff from chem1–> chem2
I can share a pdf with you if you wanna brush up
I cannot pm you

Would you be willing to share that pdf with me? I am a DIY postbacc student and about 10 years out from chemistry. Taking chem 2 next semester and worried I am not prepared and may have to take chem 1 again.

 

[chicandtoughness]

[deleted]

 

[jamaica jan sun princess]

Seconding this request, @Blanky . I'm in the exact same boat (Chem 1 was 8 years ago, taking Chem 2 this summer, don't remember a thing).

Luckily, general chemistry II doesn't build on chemistry I that much. My chemistry II consisted of different topics than I.

 

[baccpost]

Can you place out of Gen Chem I via exam? This is mostly high-school level stuff in many schools. If you took it previously and did even slightly well, you'll be bored. Also, if Orgo classes and labs are separate, I'd take them staggered if you have the time. Orgo I, then Orgo II + lab I, then lab II + Biochem. It lets you learn what you need for lab reports and exams in lecture beforehand.

 

[jamaica jan sun princess]

Can you place out of Gen Chem I via exam? This is mostly high-school level stuff in many schools. If you took it previously and did even slightly well, you'll be bored. Also, if Orgo classes and labs are separate, I'd take them staggered if you have the time. Orgo I, then Orgo II + lab I, then lab II + Biochem. It lets you learn what you need for lab reports and exams in lecture beforehand.

This is probably school dependent. One of my state schools, for example, allows applicants to CLEP or AP out of general chemistry but they have to take upper level chemistry instead.

 

[baccpost]

This is probably school dependent. One of my state schools, for example, allows applicants to CLEP or AP out of general chemistry but they have to take upper level chemistry instead.

Mine was "talk to the department head, convince him you know what you're doing, and he'd give you registration permission for GenChem 2 or Orgo 1." For post-baccs/non-degrees, which is a less formal structure than for undergrads, anyway.

 

[virtue1]

Hey there, was wondering what you ended up doing. I'm in the same boat as you and planning on starting from scratch with Gen Chem 1 this summer at a cc.

Man! That's a fantastic approach to the order in which to take the courses. I like how it makes sense and builds upon itself.

I have ordered the Klein books for Orgo 1/2, but also have a general chem I as a second language book ordered and on its way (hoping it could be helpful for chem 2).

Any online resources you folks would recommend (ideally free ones)? I am planning to use Khan academy for the science classes for review but is there anything else online that you would recommend? I was even looking into YouTube channels that reviews chem and orgo chem.

Appreciate everyone's input. Taking all of this information and generating a road map for better study.