What's the deal with the pre-med forum on Reddit?

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GrumpyGus said:
And how do you think people find SDN? Many find it through reddit. Almost every single one of my friends have never heard of SDN. As much good as there is on SDN, it's not like it's common to actually use. And among those that do use it, most avoid it due to the neuroticism, rudeness, and elitism that's all so prevalent here. I obviously have an account and use SDN a lot (I made this new account as I didn't want my old one anymore), but r/premed has it's purpose and it's very useful.

And like most SDN arguments, this is pointless and does not matter. As long as these tools exist to help others, who cares who may use what and in what way.
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>over half a million users
>nearly five million posts and 220k threads in pre-allo alone
>one of the top 1,000 sites on the internet, despite having a very niche focus
>virtually everyone in medical school I've ever come across has heard of it

>No one uses SDN

Ok.
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The flaming and fussing that may occur in SDN is nowhere near as bad as that EPA Superfund site called r/premed. The occasional controversial threads are just that, occasional.

EDIT: MadJack beat me to it in his post above!👍

GrumpyGus said:
Any smart premed would know to utilize both SDN and r/premed. I spend a lot of time over in r/premed, especially couple years ago when I was figuring everything out, and it's obviously working wonderfully for me. r/premed is a great resource and, like it or not, the community is a lot more friendly. Also the dank memes are killer.

Don't act like SDN doesn't have the same amount of significant problems, although they may be different.

You say this in a thread about reddit turned into another URM debate and a recent thread had pages about "Rosalind" versus "Rosy." SDN, like r/premed, is not perfect. At least reddit has a downvote button.

Actually that would really improve SDN. A dislike button that actually discourages trolls, dinguses, and incorrect information.
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It's sad that no one points out the disparity between an aggregator website and an open forum site seeing as how it is one of the few objective observations that can be made about each website in lieu of the focus on the community whose demographic can vary at any given time. In addition, the lack of a conjecture being made more on the premise of each site is also disappointing, but the fact that we've arrived back on topic is a miracle in its own right.

#URM Did Not Defeat This Thread
 
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freak7 said:
I found it because I googled something along the lines of "urinating with scrubs" because I had an issue with spots on my first bathroom break at my first job that required scrubs and I was freaking out in the bathroom because I was embarrassed about what my coworkers would think. The Google gods then bestowed upon me this wonderful thread which gave me tips and reminded me it was normal since scrubs can be so thin.

n=1 though.... :shrug:

Edit: I do encourage you guys to check that thread out though. There's some really great stuff in there.
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This is exactly how I found this forum, as well. Except it was khakis. That goddamn spot on my khakis!
 
idontwatchgreysanatomy said:
[*]The average poster seems to have a sincere hatred for people who are very competitive applicants. Any time I've seen someone post that they have above a 3.7 or 515, it seems like posters are quick to attack them for "humblebragging," despite having legitimate questions.
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This happens CONSTANTLY here! You cannot post decent/slightly above avg stats without someone calling you out for a humblebag.
 
freak7 said:
I found it because I googled something along the lines of "urinating with scrubs" because I had an issue with spots on my first bathroom break at my first job that required scrubs and I was freaking out in the bathroom because I was embarrassed about what my coworkers would think. The Google gods then bestowed upon me this wonderful thread which gave me tips and reminded me it was normal since scrubs can be so thin.

n=1 though.... :shrug:

Edit: I do encourage you guys to check that thread out though. There's some really great stuff in there.
Click to expand...

This post made the entire thread worth it
 
idontwatchgreysanatomy said:
As someone with a 4.0/524 from a top 10 undergrad, I've never experienced this here 🙄
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HRvRaYV.jpg
 
freak7 said:
I found it because I googled something along the lines of "urinating with scrubs" because I had an issue with spots on my first bathroom break at my first job that required scrubs and I was freaking out in the bathroom because I was embarrassed about what my coworkers would think. The Google gods then bestowed upon me this wonderful thread which gave me tips and reminded me it was normal since scrubs can be so thin.

n=1 though.... :shrug:

Edit: I do encourage you guys to check that thread out though. There's some really great stuff in there.
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That PeePee on My Scrubs post is one of my all time favorite threads here on SDN. 🙂
 
Mad Jack said:
>over half a million users
>nearly five million posts and 220k threads in pre-allo alone
>one of the top 1,000 sites on the internet, despite having a very niche focus
>virtually everyone in medical school I've ever come across has heard of it

>No one uses SDN

Ok.
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IMHO the tone on this site has gradually changed for the worse. Not sure why exactly but it has

The mods have noticed too I think, thus Lee's call out at the beginning of the year and an alleged change in moderating practices (which hasn't done much).
 
idontwatchgreysanatomy said:
https://www.reddit.com/r/premed/comments/4z19fk/dont_be_afraid_to_use_sdn/
https://www.reddit.com/r/premed/comments/3vtbsv/sdn_anyone_hate_sdn_and_the_community_there/
https://www.reddit.com/r/premed/comments/2klw4m/sdn/
https://www.reddit.com/r/premed/comments/4c6ioa/should_i_be_listening_to_sdn/

https://www.reddit.com/r/premed/comments/4uqylj/how_much_do_urms_affect_everyone_elses_chances/
https://www.reddit.com/r/premed/comments/4pcjfb/urm_statistics_and_correlations/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Mcat/comments/4vy3w3/as_a_urm_at_what_point_do_you_decide_to_retake/

Just a couple examples from a quick search of the two forums.
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I could use the search bar and cherry pick hundreds of SDN threads like these. Your examples are completely meaningless.
 
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SouthernSurgeon said:
IMHO the tone on this site has gradually changed for the worse. Not sure why exactly but it has

The mods have noticed too I think, thus Lee's call out at the beginning of the year and an alleged change in moderating practices (which hasn't done much).
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I don't disagree, though I feel like much of that is confined to pre-allo. Most of the other subforums are relatively fine. Even the SPF has been relatively benign since certain members were banned or left, and that's saying something.
 
Mad Jack said:
I don't disagree, though I feel like much of that is confined to pre-allo. Most of the other subforums are relatively fine. Even the SPF has been relatively benign since certain members were banned or left, and that's saying something.
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Many of crazy troll SDN premeds don't make it in, and you have to be a med student or whatever to post in other forums. It's actually quite perfect 🙂
 
piii said:
Many of crazy troll SDN premeds don't make it in, and you have to be a med student or whatever to post in other forums. It's actually quite perfect 🙂
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Apparently allo is pretty "toxic." I couldn't say -- I don't really hang there.
 
SouthernSurgeon said:
IMHO the tone on this site has gradually changed for the worse. Not sure why exactly but it has

The mods have noticed too I think, thus Lee's call out at the beginning of the year and an alleged change in moderating practices (which hasn't done much).
Click to expand...
Curious what your beef is, specifically.
 
SouthernSurgeon said:
IMHO the tone on this site has gradually changed for the worse. Not sure why exactly but it has

The mods have noticed too I think, thus Lee's call out at the beginning of the year and an alleged change in moderating practices (which hasn't done much).
Click to expand...
ZedsDed said:
Curious what your beef is, specifically.
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The concerns are understandable, because the paranoia, neuroticism, excessive bluntness and general rudeness are becoming increasingly worse over time. SDN being a poor representative sample of overall population throughout the medical career doesn't help either: the reported high scores in MCAT, Step, shelf, in-service exams etc aren't verified for reliability/validity so we have no reason to believe them, especially since people do lie for various reasons (e.g. insecurity, competitive/gunner mentality, trolling etc.)

Likewise, we consistently see threads bashing other groups of people, such as URMs, DOs, nurses, PAs etc. Members are basically using SDN as a forum to vent their frustrations. These problems are basically attributed to the much broader internet culture, so it's not really surprising in the end.
 
Ehwic said:
I never saw/experienced any of these on that subreddit.

EDIT: Wow, did not expect to get so many likes! I feel like a pre-teen boy first discovering Facebook!
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Before I read the rest of the thread, this edit here reminded me of the edits Reddit users made if their post made the front page lol.
 
lnvictus said:
Before I read the rest of the thread, this edit here reminded me of the edits Reddit users made if their post made the front page lol.
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I know right?

Edit: Thanks for the gold kind stranger!
 
Lawper said:
The concerns are understandable, because the paranoia, neuroticism, excessive bluntness and general rudeness are becoming increasingly worse over time. SDN being a poor representative sample of overall population throughout the medical career doesn't help either: the reported high stats in MCAT, Step, shelf, in-service exams etc aren't verified for reliability/validity so we have no reason to believe them, especially since people do lie for various reasons (e.g. insecurity, competitive/gunner mentality, trolling etc.)

Likewise, we consistently see threads bashing other groups of people, such as URMs, DOs, nurses, PAs etc. Members are basically using SDN as a forum to vent their frustrations. These problems are basically attributed to the much broader internet culture, so it's not really surprising in the end.
Click to expand...
I agree. The problems you mentioned are intrinsic to the nature of a platform that places several degrees of separation between you and the person you are communicating with.

If easy answers existed, we would have solved the problem of broader internet culture years ago. On the one hand, there is a certain logic to making SDN as inclusive a safe space as possible for professionals and pre-professionals. On the other hand, censoring heavily or lifting the anonymity of users would likely result in the community losing much of the straightforward and honest feedback it's famous for dishing out. As with most reasonable people, the admins compromise and do the best they can.

Personally, I don't think SDN has a "problem" to the extent that certain Redditors would have us believe. Most of the criticism leveled at SDN from that website in particular strikes me as petty and sophmoric.
 
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ZedsDed said:
I agree, those problems are intrinsic to the nature of a platform that places several degrees of separation between you and the person you are communicating with -- such is the internet.

If easy answers existed, we would have solved the problem of broader internet culture years ago. On the one hand, there is a certain logic to making SDN as inclusive a safe space as possible for professionals and pre-professionals. On the other hand, censoring heavily or lifting the anonymity of users would likely result in the community losing much of the straightforward and honest feedback it's famous for dishing out. As with most reasonable people, the admins compromise and do the best they can.

Personally, I don't think SDN has a "problem" to the extent that certain Redditors would have us believe. Most of the criticism leveled at SDN from that website in particular strikes me as petty and sophmoric.
Click to expand...

What about a recently promoted suggestion of SDN requiring organizational/educational emails for registration? Anonymity is still maintained, but contact information would be implicitly verified, which in turn would sharply decrease trolling/spamming/negative behavior.
 
Lawper said:
What about a recently promoted suggestion of SDN requiring organizational/educational emails for registration? Anonymity is still maintained, but contact information would be implicitly verified, which in turn would sharply decrease trolling/spamming/negative behavior.
Click to expand...

How would non trads do that though? I know in my college, after 6 months of graduating, your email become disabled. So if someone graduated say 3 years ago, and was not in school anymore, how would they provide that email address?
 
Lawper said:
What about a recently promoted suggestion of SDN requiring organizational/educational emails for registration? Anonymity is still maintained, but contact information would be implicitly verified, which in turn would sharply decrease trolling/spamming/negative behavior.
Click to expand...
Where is this huge problem of trolling? I hear about it all the time but trolls are relatively rare, usually annoying at worst, and almost instantly banned. This seems like a whole lot of huffing and puffing for nothing.

I would rather we kept the community open to those who are merely interested in the profession -- parents of applicants and the like. Also, plenty of users would not be happy about having to use a work email that can be directly tied to them IRL.
 
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Lawper said:
Probably use their work email
Click to expand...

But a lot of jobs don't require work emails. Serving, retail etc. I know some people with MBAs and other advanced degrees that are working at restaurants bc they can't find a job. So I imagine many non-trads with science based degrees are working jobs without email addresses.
 
Also, let's keep it real -- some of the most unhelpful, toxic, negative, and mean people on SDN are veteran posters who rarely if ever set foot in preallo.

Not pointing any fingers, just saying....
 
GinnyWeasley said:
I used to think that way regarding URM admissions. But then I met a black girl at my college who described what it was like academically for her. Her school was in a predominantly AA neighborhood, and there was basically no instruction whatsoever. Her teachers either wouldn't do anything in class, or they would leave for long periods of time. The majority of students didn't care about learning either. Why would they, when they had no guidance from the staff? She had to learn by herself ALL the material. Her parents had no clue about homework, and they worked a few jobs in between them, something that apparently was common in her neighborhood. She said that people would be outside her apartment complex dealing drugs and there were shootings all the time. I can't imagine how difficult it must be to study in those conditions. She didn't know what the SAT/ACT was, and there was no way she could afford prep books, courses etc. And when students who have no guidance and teaching during high school get to college, adcoms have to think about how they have to learn it all, instead of growing up with it like many Asians/whites. They overcome this additional barrier. Not saying all URMs have this, but there are a lot that do.
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This soo many times. However I will add one more layer, I believe that economic background should be considered for asians and whites. An indian applicant whose parents are both phyicians will have distinctly better opportunities in terms of schooling and not having to worry about paying for school or parents who can actually provide mentorship into the field vs an indian whose parents are taxi drivers.
 
libertyyne said:
This soo many times. However I will add one more layer, I believe that economic background should be considered for asians and whites. An indian applicant whose parents are both phyicians will have distinctly better opportunities in terms of schooling and not having to worry about paying for school or parents who can actually provide mentorship into the field vs an indian whose parents are taxi drivers.
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For f***'s sake, it is. The disadvantaged section.

Please read.
 
They seem to show up more during the start of app season, perhaps because they're off for the summer.

ZedsDed said:
Where is this huge problem of trolling? I hear about it all the time but trolls are relatively rare, usually annoying at worst, and almost instantly banned. This seems like a whole lot of huffing and puffing for nothing.

I would rather we kept the community open to those who are merely interested in the profession -- parents of applicants and the like. Also, plenty of users would not be happy about having to use a work email that can be directly tied to them IRL.
Click to expand...
 
@ZedsDed Look at the most recent thread in nontraditional.

Guy who reads science fiction and equates that to his interest in medicine. Scoffs at his own field and graduated with a 3.4 while claiming to be very intelligent and needs a field to express himself in that domain.
 
I have a 3.94 and 524 mcat yet have never had any problems whatsoever on the subreddit.
 
ZedsDed said:
Where is this huge problem of trolling? I hear about it all the time but trolls are relatively rare, usually annoying at worst, and almost instantly banned. This seems like a whole lot of huffing and puffing for nothing.

I would rather we kept the community open to those who are merely interested in the profession -- parents of applicants and the like. Also, plenty of users would not be happy about having to use a work email that can be directly tied to them IRL.
Click to expand...
GinnyWeasley said:
But a lot of jobs don't require work emails. Serving, retail etc. I know some people with MBAs and other advanced degrees that are working at restaurants bc they can't find a job. So I imagine many non-trads with science based degrees are working jobs without email addresses.
Click to expand...

Hm good points. An alternative was to adopt a Quora-style registration involving real names, but that would destroy forum traffic and drive off adcoms and faculty.

Seems like the best approach is to keep things the way they are but try to promote more positive discussions while avoiding feeding/contributing to the negativity.
 
@Lawper The site's infrastructure allows for an IP ban list to prevent logging in from banned users aside from account suspension. You create a filter list by inputting banned users and commonly used free-proxy websites. There are already meta-lists available. The failure to implement a higher security protocol is intentional. This methodology involves far less intrusion and there are methods of mitigating false positives by allowing users to access a section of the site where they can apply for a ticket to be white listed. This way trolls will have to wait for a period of time and will likely lose the incentive behind being able to get their entertainment in the few seconds it takes to register a new account and create a new thread.
 
Personally, I'm a fan of reddit. Not sure where these accusations of racism, etc. are coming from. Then again, I only spend time in a handful of different subreddits: askreddit (you always get some interesting questions with a lot of different perspectives), radiocontrol (I like model planes), medicalschool (excellent resource in my opinion), oldpeoplefacebook (because it's hilarious), and the one for my undergrad.

I think that r/premed is okay, with the major issue being the fact that to a certain extent it's the blind leading the blind. Pretty much everyone there is a premed student themselves, so the quality of information is not as high as on SDN. It's a good place to vent and there's a lot of entertaining posts, though. I feel like if someone was sick and had to pick between two doctors, one of which is a complete tool that doesn't care about you but will figure out your problem and fix it, and one of them will really listen to you and make you feel at ease but is slightly less competent, those would be SDN and r/premed respectively. Perhaps that's a poor analogy, but I digress.
 
people should be accepted to med school based on their score ...which does not take into account their sex, race, or national origin. Otherwise it is biased. It should be based on mcat score, gpa, and ec's.. end of story. Otherwise is simply not fair and perpetuates "issues".
 
PreMeddit is a lot more chill than SDN and in my experience, people seem to be more positive and supportive there. Plus if the process is really starting to stress you out, porn and puppy pictures are only a click away.
 
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premeddoctorgirl said:
people should be accepted to med school based on their score ...which does not take into account their sex, race, or national origin. Otherwise it is biased. It should be based on mcat score, gpa, and ec's.. end of story. Otherwise is simply not fair and perpetuates "issues".
Click to expand...

2/10 troll attempt
 
GinnyWeasley said:
I used to think that way regarding URM admissions. But then I met a black girl at my college who described what it was like academically for her. Her school was in a predominantly AA neighborhood, and there was basically no instruction whatsoever. Her teachers either wouldn't do anything in class, or they would leave for long periods of time. The majority of students didn't care about learning either. Why would they, when they had no guidance from the staff? She had to learn by herself ALL the material. Her parents had no clue about homework, and they worked a few jobs in between them, something that apparently was common in her neighborhood. She said that people would be outside her apartment complex dealing drugs and there were shootings all the time. I can't imagine how difficult it must be to study in those conditions. She didn't know what the SAT/ACT was, and there was no way she could afford prep books, courses etc. And when students who have no guidance and teaching during high school get to college, adcoms have to think about how they have to learn it all, instead of growing up with it like many Asians/whites. They overcome this additional barrier. Not saying all URMs have this, but there are a lot that do.
Click to expand...

I mean any person of any race can grow up under these conditions. My question is, would someone (white or asian) that grew up similarly get the same leniency in admissions?
 
I would argue that neither SDN nor Reddit are representative of medical school applicants as a whole. Both reflect a very limited cross section.
 
FueledByRamen said:
I mean any person of any race can grow up under these conditions. My question is, would someone (white or asian) that grew up similarly get the same leniency in admissions?
Click to expand...

*Deep breath*

You are right and this is in fact the "darling" arguing point in the debate for "URM admissions". However, it is much harder to assess conditions of schooling / quality of teaching than race. Being African American / Latinx in this country means being disproportionately affected by barriers to social mobility such as poor education access and poverty. There's also the fact that a little thing called racism exists. People bemoaning URM admissions fail to see the reason behind it - whites or asians will need to more clearly detail their hardships, but they will undoubtedly be looked upon more favorably should they succeed despite them. URMs are IDENTIFIED as an easy way to assess those who may potentially have faced more barriers and hardships to "succeed".

This is for the benefit of those who still cannot understand - there's a pretty common meme / story out there about a teacher offering extra credit to whoever can throw a crumpled piece of paper into a trash can at the front of the room. Namely, making it into the can = success. Those in the back complain, as it is much harder for them to aim and see above those in the front. The students in front remain silent and simply begin shooting because they know they have an advantage. If the teacher tries to even the disadvantage by allowing an extra two shots for those in the back, the students in the front suddenly might have something to say.

It's the same thing that happens for med admissions / college admissions / you name it. The only reason why we react negatively is because we think there is an inherent advantage to being URM. Those who say admissions should only be based on stats/ECs don't realize their own privilege. Have you had to deal with the constant threat of violence in your neighborhood? Has there been societal pressure to act a certain way? Do you understand what it is like to have to work to live and go to school AND keep up your GPA / ECs? If you're barely scraping enough money paycheck to paycheck, are you really in the position to think about long-term goals such as med school? How many mentors did you have? If you're worrying about being evicted, do you really have the luxury to think about what ECs you need? Have you seen the state of traditionally AA/Latinx schools? Or the teachers? I could go on and on. Why should these people, who have struggled to survive and succeed in ways that we cannot truly understand, not be given a chance?

(While privileged URMs are existent, adcoms are not automatons that accept willy-nilly anyone with a certain race designation. It is just one factor that could make file review quicker. Also, URM communities are those MOST IN NEED of better healthcare. Those who grew up in those communities are actually the ones most likely to return and most likely to be accepted back within the community. How many of you "oh URM admissions are unfair" are actually interested in bettering the social conditions that necessitate URM admissions? )

Please do not feel that I am not attacking you nor trying to make you feel poorly, I was just responding to the general negativity around URM admissions. As an ORM myself, it took a lot of self-education and listening to understand this. I'm sure there will still be people who ignore me and continue to wallow in privilege-induced self-pity, but just doing my part. 🙂
 
161MD said:
*Deep breath*

You are right and this is in fact the "darling" arguing point in the debate for "URM admissions". However, it is much harder to assess conditions of schooling / quality of teaching than race. Being African American / Latinx in this country means being disproportionately affected by barriers to social mobility such as poor education access and poverty. There's also the fact that a little thing called racism exists. People bemoaning URM admissions fail to see the reason behind it - whites or asians will need to more clearly detail their hardships, but they will undoubtedly be looked upon more favorably should they succeed despite them. URMs are IDENTIFIED as an easy way to assess those who may potentially have faced more barriers and hardships to "succeed".

This is for the benefit of those who still cannot understand - there's a pretty common meme / story out there about a teacher offering extra credit to whoever can throw a crumpled piece of paper into a trash can at the front of the room. Namely, making it into the can = success. Those in the back complain, as it is much harder for them to aim and see above those in the front. The students in front remain silent and simply begin shooting because they know they have an advantage. If the teacher tries to even the disadvantage by allowing an extra two shots for those in the back, the students in the front suddenly might have something to say.

It's the same thing that happens for med admissions / college admissions / you name it. The only reason why we react negatively is because we think there is an inherent advantage to being URM. Those who say admissions should only be based on stats/ECs don't realize their own privilege. Have you had to deal with the constant threat of violence in your neighborhood? Has there been societal pressure to act a certain way? Do you understand what it is like to have to work to live and go to school AND keep up your GPA / ECs? If you're barely scraping enough money paycheck to paycheck, are you really in the position to think about long-term goals such as med school? How many mentors did you have? If you're worrying about being evicted, do you really have the luxury to think about what ECs you need? Have you seen the state of traditionally AA/Latinx schools? Or the teachers? I could go on and on. Why should these people, who have struggled to survive and succeed in ways that we cannot truly understand, not be given a chance?

(While privileged URMs are existent, adcoms are not automatons that accept willy-nilly anyone with a certain race designation. It is just one factor that could make file review quicker. Also, URM communities are those MOST IN NEED of better healthcare. Those who grew up in those communities are actually the ones most likely to return and most likely to be accepted back within the community. How many of you "oh URM admissions are unfair" are actually interested in bettering the social conditions that necessitate URM admissions? )

Please do not feel that I am not attacking you nor trying to make you feel poorly, I was just responding to the general negativity around URM admissions. As an ORM myself, it took a lot of self-education and listening to understand this. I'm sure there will still be people who ignore me and continue to wallow in privilege-induced self-pity, but just doing my part. 🙂
Click to expand...

Well, someone took the bait
 
And someone is continuing to do nothing of value for the issue. There are real people posting these things, however much they mean it, and countless more who internalize and react to it.

At least I'm trying, can you say the same?
 
161MD said:
As an ORM myself, it took a lot of self-education and listening to understand this. I'm sure there will still be people who ignore me and continue to wallow in privilege-induced self-pity, but just doing my part. 🙂
Click to expand...
161MD said:
And someone is continuing to do nothing of value for the issue. There are real people posting these things, however much they mean it, and countless more who internalize and react to it.

At least I'm trying, can you say the same?
Click to expand...
1) You don't know what you're talking about
2) The pompous tone is grating and counter-productive
3) This is all OT and inappropriate for pre-allo
 
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