What's the point of taking a 'difficult' major?

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Is a BS in a hard science a good idea?

  • Good idea to do a BS in a hard science

    Votes: 23 38.3%

  • Bad Idea to do a BS in a hard science

    Votes: 37 61.7%
  • Total voters
    60
FreeRadicals

FreeRadicals

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Hey guys,

Since all majors are 'viewed' equally in terms of the admission process to MD/DO schools - what is the point of doing a more 'difficult' major (Hard science B.S. degrees)?
 
There’s actually no point if med school is the end goal. You could major in communications if you want to as long as you complete the prereqs for med school admission.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Interest, personal growth and development, etc. It's mildly convenient that some of the biology and chemistry majors have a lot of pre-med components built into the schedule. A lot of people will tell you not to do hard majors because your GPA might be a little lower, but I think that's quitter talk if you are legitimately interested in doing one of those majors.
 
Acknowledge that most premeds never make it to medical school. Everyone needs to have to have a plan B and will need to think about the likelihood of needing to be employed in a profession other than medicine. Your college major may dictate the jobs you will be considered for coming out of college and the likelihood that you will be admissible to other programs in higher ed (graduate school, other professional programs, etc).
 
LizzyM said:
Acknowledge that most premeds never make it to medical school. Everyone needs to have to have a plan B and will need to think about the likelihood of needing to be employed in a profession other than medicine. Your college major may dictate the jobs you will be considered for coming out of college and the likelihood that you will be admissible to other programs in higher ed (graduate school, other professional programs, etc).
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Those who have no other dream than to go to med school, eventually do go to med school.
 
I agree that there's no advantage to getting into medical school. However, that does not encompass the value of a better work ethic and thinking skills you may obtain through harder majors.
 
FreeRadicals said:
Those who have no other dream than to go to med school, eventually do go to med school.
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It doesn't work that way. 60% of applicants do not make it into med school. Sheer determination is not a replacement for competence.
 
But muh dream.

LizzyM said:
Acknowledge that most premeds never make it to medical school. Everyone needs to have to have a plan B and will need to think about the likelihood of needing to be employed in a profession other than medicine. Your college major may dictate the jobs you will be considered for coming out of college and the likelihood that you will be admissible to other programs in higher ed (graduate school, other professional programs, etc).
Click to expand...
 
Have you ever had an applicant apply so many times that it gets brought up in the adcom meetings? If so, is this usually a good comment or bad?

Goro said:
It doesn't work that way. 60% of applicants do not make it into med school. Sheer determination is not a replacement for competence.
Click to expand...
 
GypsyHummus said:
Have you ever had an applicant apply so many times that it gets brought up in the adcom meetings? If so, is this usually a good comment or bad?
Click to expand...
Nope. But sometimes we do remember someone who applied previously (we have a prompt for that in our secondary), and anyone who does so WILL be asked "what have you done to improve your app since last year". More often than not, we get a lame answer, and the candidate gets rejected.

We also discuss people who have applied previously in our Adcom meetings. These people tend NOT to improve themselves over the previous cycle!
 
If I could do it over again I’d major in German or English

Pick what you’re most interested in. Don’t choose a major of convenience or because you think it might look good
 
Goro said:
It doesn't work that way. 60% of applicants do not make it into med school. Sheer determination is not a replacement for competence.
Click to expand...
Everyone is competent enough to go to med school - it all depends on how bad they want it.
 
FreeRadicals said:
Everyone is competent enough to go to med school - it all depends on how bad they want it.
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I can see you have zero experience with med school admissions, and med school in general.

True or false:

Everyone is competent enough to pitch for the Houston Astros - it all depends on how bad they want it.

Everyone is competent enough to fly F35s for the USAF - it all depends on how bad they want it.

Everyone is competent enough to play lead violin for the NY Philharmonic - it all depends on how bad they want it.
 
Last edited:
FreeRadicals said:
Everyone is competent enough to go to med school - it all depends on how bad they want it.
Click to expand...

Think of it as a baseline level of intelligence and emotional intuition, that is then coupled with motivational, socioeconomic, situational factors, among others.

Of course, you probably wont. I don't think you have the competence.
 
You major should be something you like, can excel in, and that will prepare you for a plan B if you don’t make it in medical school.

For me...there was no question. I had to major in hard science to do those three things. If I had majored in communications, or English, or history I would have struggled to keep my gpa up. If it had been a business major I doubt I could have even graduated.

Different people have different strengths and weaknesses and it’s important to play to those.
 
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FreeRadicals said:
Everyone is competent enough to go to med school - it all depends on how bad they want it.
Click to expand...
 
I'm worried about my senior year grades dipping - because of the heavy bchem courseload 🙁
 
FreeRadicals said:
I'm worried about my senior year grades dipping - because of the heavy bchem courseload 🙁
Click to expand...
Med school will be a LOT harder than anything you're taking in UG. If you can't handle the UG load, how will you handle the rigor of med school.
 
The problem is, students dont know until they are in medical school just how much harder it is, unless they do an SMP with a medical school and get a taste of what its like. So most undergrad students roll their eyes when someone tells them how hard med school is compared to undergrad.

I think if people knew what exactly medicine entailed, most wouldnt do it. Most people see House or Grey's Anatomy and think thats it, or they shadow a friend of their family and see all the cool stuff medicine has to offer. They dont see the paperwork, the long hours, the drama, the risk of contracting deadly diseases, etc. Most premeds have no clue how much 10K of debt actually is, let alone 300K+ of non dischargeable student debt with compounded intrest (or that 300K becomes 370K after 3 years of residency). And while its true that once you have your MD degree w/residency there are a lot of things you can do, if you fail in some regard to get to that point, most premeds are stuck with a worthless biology degree with no marketable skills. What are you gonna put on your resume? Medical student who couldn't pass boards?

Take a look at some of the forum posts by medical students who have been dismissed because they failed boards 3 times.

Goro said:
Med school will be a LOT harder than anything you're taking in UG. If you can't handle the UG load, how will you handle the rigor of med school.
Click to expand...
 
GypsyHummus said:
if you fail in some regard to get to that point, most premeds are stuck with a worthless biology degree with no marketable skills. What are you gonna put on your resume?
Click to expand...

I feel like you're viewing this as a zero-sum game though (which it isn't)

If you're not competitive enough as a premed, then you can always transition to pre-dental, if still not competitive, then you can do PA school, if still no good then you can go for podiatry, and then there's always optometry, physical therapy, nursing, dosimetry etc. etc.

There are plenty of options you can take with a biology degree with premed coursework complete, most of which offer a 6 figure salary while having the opportunity to take care of patients (while having less strenuous/stressful training).


In fact, I'd argue that a biology degree is even more stable than something like a computer science degree. If you go into computer science and find it just doesn't click for you, there isn't anything you can fall back on considering the only route you have is a coding-oriented profession. While with biology (w/ premed courses), you have plenty of fulfilling, high-income, recession-proof occupations you can go into.
 
In fact, I'd argue that a biology degree is even more stable than something like a computer science degree. If you go into computer science and find it just doesn't click for you, there isn't anything you can fall back on considering the only route you have is a coding-oriented profession. While with biology (w/ premed courses), you have plenty of fulfilling, high-income, recession-proof occupations you can go into.
Click to expand...


I'd have to kindly disagree; CS degrees demonstrate quantitative and technical skills and do not require years of further training and debt to obtain a job. If you go into CS and it doesn't work for you, you can always go into any other career requiring mathematical or computational background, whereas for biology, you already have years of training that make transition into other hard science disciplines difficult. CS also goes beyond just coding.

Regarding the thread, I strongly believe in getting my money’s worth from college, so I chose to do a double degree in chemistry and biology… leaning towards extending bio to cs-bio in senior year since chem is done. I don’t believe in compromising my education or learning less by taking easier classes just so I could have a higher GPA for medical school. I don’t have a 4.0 GPA, and I don’t regret taking hard courses that really helped me understand fundamental physical principles. High GPA doesn’t guarantee anything, and if GPA were one of the reasons I don’t get into a medical school, then that’s too bad.

If medical school doesn’t turn well, I could get a job in industrial chemistry or get a PhD in either of these and do research. I think undergrad is too early to have the “premed major” mindset because undergrad is just the beginning. There’s more coursework, knowledge, and exams to pass before you’re actually in medicine.

Sorry if this response seems angry - I don't really like it when people tell me "Why are you doing that? Why don't you do this easy class that will boost your gpa instead?"
 
I found it easier to do well in things I was interested in even if they were harder. My British literature class was easy, but I found it much more difficult to sit down and do compared to some of my science classes. If I were to do it all over again I'd probably pick a major like bioinformatics, which is probably harder than my biology degree, but I would never have known it was interesting unless I was a biology major in the first place, so major in something that is interesting and gives you the scope and flexibility to discovery areas you like.
 
TheDappGoesWild said:
I feel like you're viewing this as a zero-sum game though (which it isn't)

If you're not competitive enough as a premed, then you can always transition to pre-dental, if still not competitive, then you can do PA school, if still no good then you can go for podiatry, and then there's always optometry, physical therapy, nursing, dosimetry etc. etc.

There are plenty of options you can take with a biology degree with premed coursework complete, most of which offer a 6 figure salary while having the opportunity to take care of patients (while having less strenuous/stressful training).


In fact, I'd argue that a biology degree is even more stable than something like a computer science degree. If you go into computer science and find it just doesn't click for you, there isn't anything you can fall back on considering the only route you have is a coding-oriented profession. While with biology (w/ premed courses), you have plenty of fulfilling, high-income, recession-proof occupations you can go into.
Click to expand...

This is very true—the caveat being that once your sGPA falls below 3.2 doors close quickly.

I had a wealth of back ups, but I also had good grades
 
THEBACKANDFORTH said:
This is very true—the caveat being that once your sGPA falls below 3.2 doors close quickly.

I had a wealth of back ups, but I also had good grades
Click to expand...

Respectfully, if a student is unable to maintain a 3.2 GPA in a biology program, then I highly doubt the student would possess the academic aptitude necessary to handle an engineering or computer science curriculum.
 
Sophist said:
I don’t believe in compromising my education or learning less by taking easier classes just so I could have a higher GPA for medical school. I don’t have a 4.0 GPA, and I don’t regret taking hard courses that really helped me understand fundamental physical principles. High GPA doesn’t guarantee anything, and if GPA were one of the reasons I don’t get into a medical school, then that’s too bad.

If medical school doesn’t turn well, I could get a job in industrial chemistry or get a PhD in either of these and do research. I think undergrad is too early to have the “premed major” mindset because undergrad is just the beginning. There’s more coursework, knowledge, and exams to pass before you’re actually in medicine.

Sorry if this response seems angry - I don't really like it when people tell me "Why are you doing that? Why don't you do this easy class that will boost your gpa instead?"
Click to expand...

Come back and tell us how your first application cycle goes and with what GPA.
 
TheDappGoesWild said:
Respectfully, if a student is unable to maintain a 3.2 GPA in a biology program, then I highly doubt the student would possess the academic aptitude necessary to handle an engineering or computer science curriculum.
Click to expand...

You're right.
 
TheDappGoesWild said:
Respectfully, if a student is unable to maintain a 3.2 GPA in a biology program, then I highly doubt the student would possess the academic aptitude necessary to handle an engineering or computer science curriculum.
Click to expand...
Depends imo. I know people that aced calc series but stayed in bio even though they suck at it.
 
LizzyM said:
Come back and tell us how your first application cycle goes and with what GPA.
Click to expand...
Always been my mindset. I don't really care for this "higher ideal" philosophy of college. GPA is all that matter for medicine. Get a high GPA and get into med school. All that other BS in not getting you into med school. You aren't getting slack for majoring in CS or engineering in med school. You are not unique in that regard anymore if that is your major and there are geniuses in those majors getting 4.0s that will make you look bad if you are subpar. Just study what is easy for you if med school is the goal.
 
Sophist said:
I'd have to kindly disagree; CS degrees demonstrate quantitative and technical skills and do not require years of further training and debt to obtain a job. If you go into CS and it doesn't work for you, you can always go into any other career requiring mathematical or computational background, whereas for biology, you already have years of training that make transition into other hard science disciplines difficult. CS also goes beyond just coding.

Regarding the thread, I strongly believe in getting my money’s worth from college, so I chose to do a double degree in chemistry and biology… leaning towards extending bio to cs-bio in senior year since chem is done. I don’t believe in compromising my education or learning less by taking easier classes just so I could have a higher GPA for medical school. I don’t have a 4.0 GPA, and I don’t regret taking hard courses that really helped me understand fundamental physical principles. High GPA doesn’t guarantee anything, and if GPA were one of the reasons I don’t get into a medical school, then that’s too bad.

If medical school doesn’t turn well, I could get a job in industrial chemistry or get a PhD in either of these and do research. I think undergrad is too early to have the “premed major” mindset because undergrad is just the beginning. There’s more coursework, knowledge, and exams to pass before you’re actually in medicine.

Sorry if this response seems angry - I don't really like it when people tell me "Why are you doing that? Why don't you do this easy class that will boost your gpa instead?"
Click to expand...

I don't know why this is so complicated-

Medicine = Qualitative field (people oriented, memorization, soft science)

CS/Engineering = Quantitative field (numbers, logic, hard science)

If you want to do medicine, then pick a major (Biology, Social sciences etc.) that is relevant to medicine. These are the majors that allow you to obtain a high GPA and succeed on the MCAT (as well as help you become a better physician)

If you want to do CS/engineering, then do that and forget about medicine. There is near zero overlap between CS/engineering and being a physician.

***Yes, we know you want to do CS/engineering as a backup in case you don't get into medical school. Unfortunately that's not how the system works. Being a CS/engineering major will significantly reduce you're chances of being a successful premed.

It's either go into medicine 100% (with a biology/social sciences major) and have a better chance of getting into med school

OR

Do engineering/CS which will give you a good backup, but also significantly reduce your chance of getting into med school
 
TheDappGoesWild said:
I don't know why this is so complicated-

Medicine = Qualitative field (people oriented, memorization, soft science)

CS/Engineering = Quantitative field (numbers, logic, hard science)

If you want to do medicine, then pick a major (Biology, Social sciences etc.) that is relevant to medicine. These are the majors that allow you to obtain a high GPA and succeed on the MCAT (as well as help you become a better physician)

If you want to do CS/engineering, then do that and forget about medicine. There is near zero overlap between CS/engineering and being a physician.

***Yes, we know you want to do CS/engineering as a backup in case you don't get into medical school. Unfortunately that's not how the system works. Being a CS/engineering major will significantly reduce you're chances of being a successful premed.

It's either go into medicine 100% (with a biology/social sciences major) and have a better chance of getting into med school

OR

Do engineering/CS which will give you a good backup, but also significantly reduce your chance of getting into med school
Click to expand...

Is that why Biology majors have lower composite mcat scores than Physics, BME, EE, Math, English etc?
 
i don’t really have anything to add but seeing people make major life decisions based on getting into med school makes me sad. I get it, but it just seems such a bleak and boorish attitude to have.

My education was for me and nobody else and I don’t regret that.
 
Lucca said:
i don’t really have anything to add but seeing people make major life decisions based on getting into med school makes me sad. I get it, but it just seems such a bleak and boorish attitude to have.

My education was for me and nobody else and I don’t regret that.
Click to expand...
For a lot of the people on this forum, getting into med school is their life and who they define themselves as.
 
Majoring in a hard science doesn’t mean your grades should slip either.

Also not everyone realizes medical school is what they want to pursue when they enter undergrad.
 
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