what's the scramble like?

[Arctic Char]

to anyone who has some experience, what is the scramble like in terms of competition in pathology? do all the people who go unmatched enter into the scramble or do many flat out give up or pursue something else? how do IMG's fare in the scramble, or does it matter? what are the most important things to do if you scramble? (besides making sure your fax machine works)

the reason i ask is because looking at the unfilled positions this year, it seems like it was not slim-pickens as far as quality programs go in pathology. so maybe it may compel someone to not have as extensive a ranklist and take their chances in the scramble . . . ??

comments?

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[docbiohazard]

Well, I have no personal experience in the scramble, but in anycase, just doing some quick math:

US applicants - US matched = 326 - 298 = 28 US applicants unmatched

Total applicants - US applicants = 793 - 326 = 426 non-US apps unmatched

508 pgy1 spots - 467 filled = 41 open pgy-1 spots for scramble

Not sure how those filled, but the odds aren't great. For what it is worth, I have heard second-hand info about two US grads who did not match and did not successfully scramble. I don't recommend it as a strategy.

You'll see, you interview, and you'll think "Eh, this program is ok... maybe I won't rank it..." but when it comes time to make your list, you'll have to ask yourself "Would I rather match here, or take my chances in the scramble?" For me, I wound up ranking all 15 programs. All 15 of those programs filled, too.

BH

 

[danaphosaurus]

It's been a while but...
Monday I got the email that said I didn't match- I had to go to the medical school and I found out how many spots there were open and the country and the number by region I think-
At 11 on scramble day you get the list of all the unfilled spots but you can't call until 12- So, from 11-12 I sat down and decided in what order I was going to call programs- I had to send the programs I was interested in my stuff on ERAS- At noon we started calling and faxing my info to those that wanted it by fax- I had a lot of help from my medical school- I did all of this in the profressional development office and basically the entire staff was helping me with stuff- I had the program director at my home program call the program director of the program I wanted to get into- The PD called me and we talked and he offered me the spot- I basically had my first choice within an hour- It went really smooth-
I was probably a medium strength candidate and there are some things I would have done differently- I think it came down to a numbers thing for me- I think it is also important to never rank a place you don't want to go to-
I am really happy where I am and I look back on the scramble as a positive experience-

 

[Arctic Char]

It's been a while but...
Monday I got the email that said I didn't match- I had to go to the medical school and I found out how many spots there were open and the country and the number by region I think-
At 11 on scramble day you get the list of all the unfilled spots but you can't call until 12- So, from 11-12 I sat down and decided in what order I was going to call programs- I had to send the programs I was interested in my stuff on ERAS- At noon we started calling and faxing my info to those that wanted it by fax- I had a lot of help from my medical school- I did all of this in the profressional development office and basically the entire staff was helping me with stuff- I had the program director at my home program call the program director of the program I wanted to get into- The PD called me and we talked and he offered me the spot- I basically had my first choice within an hour- It went really smooth-
I was probably a medium strength candidate and there are some things I would have done differently- I think it came down to a numbers thing for me- I think it is also important to never rank a place you don't want to go to-
I am really happy where I am and I look back on the scramble as a positive experience-

great to hear, thanks for the breakdown and congrats. this was the kind of insight i was curious about - although you seemed to have a fairly smooth experience. glad to know that it is at least possible.

 

[danaphosaurus]

A lot depends on your medical school- I have heard stories of people having to do it on their own, at home, after they had to go out and buy a fax machine- I was lucky-

 

[Arctic Char]

A lot depends on your medical school- I have heard stories of people having to do it on their own, at home, after they had to go out and buy a fax machine- I was lucky-

damn! talk about getting shafted . . . after it was over i'd give that fax machine the Office Space treatment . . . gangsta style

 

[rirriri]

It's been a while but...
Monday I got the email that said I didn't match- I had to go to the medical school and I found out how many spots there were open and the country and the number by region I think-
At 11 on scramble day you get the list of all the unfilled spots but you can't call until 12- So, from 11-12 I sat down and decided in what order I was going to call programs- I had to send the programs I was interested in my stuff on ERAS- At noon we started calling and faxing my info to those that wanted it by fax- I had a lot of help from my medical school- I did all of this in the profressional development office and basically the entire staff was helping me with stuff- I had the program director at my home program call the program director of the program I wanted to get into- The PD called me and we talked and he offered me the spot- I basically had my first choice within an hour- It went really smooth-
I was probably a medium strength candidate and there are some things I would have done differently- I think it came down to a numbers thing for me- I think it is also important to never rank a place you don't want to go to-
I am really happy where I am and I look back on the scramble as a positive experience-

well first of all, CONGRATULATIONS. glad you got what you wanted.

having said that....MAN you AMGs really do have it princess-like....i don't even consider that a "scramble"...i consider that to be more like a plate of appetizers while you wait for a marinated roast to slowly cook

 

[KeratinPearls]

well first of all, CONGRATULATIONS. glad you got what you wanted.

having said that....MAN you AMGs really do have it princess-like....i don't even consider that a "scramble"...i consider that to be more like a plate of appetizers while you wait for a marinated roast to slowly cook

Second that. AMGs have the support of their medical school and access to resources (like having a PD call for you). If you are a IMG, you are in deep six ****. As a AMG, you can have the PD of your home school call for you and you will have no problem getting a spot. That is very important in the scramble. If you know someone like a PD/Chair, you have a spot pretty much guaranteed.

For IMGs, the situation is different. You are on your own. Better hope you get through to the program. Phone lines and fax lines will all be busy. If you do get through, get ready to stand behind the AMG in line. As an IMG, unfilled programs will most likely look at your scores first.

In short, you don't want to be in the scramble, if your an IMG.

 

[mlw03]

to anyone who has some experience, what is the scramble like in terms of competition in pathology? do all the people who go unmatched enter into the scramble or do many flat out give up or pursue something else? how do IMG's fare in the scramble, or does it matter? what are the most important things to do if you scramble? (besides making sure your fax machine works)

the reason i ask is because looking at the unfilled positions this year, it seems like it was not slim-pickens as far as quality programs go in pathology. so maybe it may compel someone to not have as extensive a ranklist and take their chances in the scramble . . . ??

comments?

not sure i would agree with the bolded statement - sure, there were a few "good" spots to be had at places like UChicago, Pitt, and maybe some others, but counting on a good spot being around in the scramble is a very poor decision. i don't know anyone who scrambled into path, but i have classmates who had to scramble and it sounded horrible. consider spending 2 years saying, "i want to be a X" and then not being able to scramble into the specialty you want to pursue, let alone going to a bad program or city you don't want to live in. i truly believe that the general rules for the match should hold true: rank every program you think you'd be content at, and rank at least 6 or 7 programs if you can. i know we have that vandy success story this year (she ranked only vandy and got it), but that's a risky as hell proposition. for even a "stellar" candidate, i would advise applying to 15 or more places, interviewing at your top 7 or so, and ranking them all unless you hate them. "weaker" candidates should apply and interview even more. yes, you'll spend a lot of money, but again, the scramble is supposedly hell for an AMG who has the support of their school's resources; i can only imagine how difficult it'd be for an IMG. this is not the time to be conservative or cheap - far better to have to cancel or decline interviews than realize in november that you only have 3 interview offers and it's now too late to add more programs through ERAS.

 

[docbiohazard]

not sure i would agree with the bolded statement - sure, there were a few "good" spots to be had at places like UChicago, Pitt, and maybe some others, but counting on a good spot being around in the scramble is a very poor decision.

Indeed. I also think as Path becomes more competitive, programs will adjust and you'll see fewer and fewer spots going unmatched. I heard from one scrambler that the "unmatched" spot(s) at a certain "good" institution were "already spoken for" or "a mistake" or something to that effect. Again, second hand info.

Only ranking one is risky. I've met one resident who did a post-sophmore fellowship at a top tier institution, knew everybody, was assured they were ranked to match, and wound up at their number 2 spot. The NRMP data will show you, something like 90+% people in path match in their top 3 ranks, and the number of ranks for matched people averages out around 8 or so. So if you rank at least 8, should be ok.

BH

 

[danaphosaurus]

My dad actually asked me the same thing, If I would recommend someone just scrambling and not going through all the interviewing- Absolutely not!
That said, I think I am still paying off my interviews-

 

[MirkoCrocop]

Here's my experience. I, thankfully, did not have to scramble, but I gave myself the best shot at matching, which if you're a poor candidate, I'd highly recommend trying to do. I have poor grades, a poor class rank (90ish/100?), above average Boards, good research (no publications), and what I thought was a good personal statement, and I interview well.

I applied to over 35 programs in a certain regional location I wanted to be in. I received interview invites from about 17, if I recall. I drove (mostly)/flew to every single interview, unless the invitation was in late January or so. I ended up interviewing at 15 places, and ranked 14. I got my first choice.

Once again, residency is no different. I apply broadly and try and avoid scrambling.

 

[HRantz]

The Scramble is why you need to maintain a good relationship with the PD at your medical school's residency program, even if you have absolutely no intention of ranking the program at all. I know personally one medical student who applied to residency programs (not in Pathology), ended up having to scramble, and all of a sudden needed the support of the PD at her med school when she HAD NOT EVEN BOTHERED TO APPLY THERE. Bad idea. You gotta play the game, folks.

 

[pathgrrl]

Asmentioned, I ranked only one program and got it -- but I had good personal reasons for doing so (dual career family) and a back-up plan (albeit a poorly defined idea to do research and try again).
My case aside, I would agree that you should apply to any program you think you might want to go and post-interview rank any program you would be willing to go.
I did learn something from the interview trail, though -- interviews probably won't change your gut feeling about a place from bad to good (but maybe from good to bad)...when considering which programs to choose for the initial applications, my mentor suggested that I call/email the PD directly with any questions, especially about issues important to me. I found that most PDs were very receptive to this. Don't go to an interview if you think you wouldn't want to go to the program based on location, volume, or lack of PA support or whatever-- you'll spend $500-1000 to be there and in the end feel the same as prior to the interview.