What's up with Caribbean Schools?

[colliea21]

I was wondering why are caribbean schools portrayed as the lowest thing you can go. I have read comments saying that if you don't get into US schools for 2 years then (what the hell) go to the caribbean. And what's with "you won't get a decent residency if you go to a carib. school?" I think that if the school is accredited and you get high USMLE scores and do your thing while in med school you have pretty good chances of getting a "decent" residency. Sure, a Harvard/Hopkins doc has the "reputation" factor backing him up but not everything is about that...just my opinion.

 

[dynx]

...just my uneducated opinion.

fixed

 

[CagedBird]

I was wondering why are caribbean schools portrayed as the lowest thing you can go. I have read comments saying that if you don't get into US schools for 2 years then (what the hell) go to the caribbean. And what's with "you won't get a decent residency if you go to a carib. school?" I think that if the school is accredited and you get high USMLE scores and do your thing while in med school you have pretty good chances of getting a "decent" residency. Sure, a Harvard/Hopkins doc has the "reputation" factor backing him up but not everything is about that...just my opinion.

You have a very good point colliea and I agree. If you are a diligent student, you will excel wherever you go to med. school. As a matter of fact, I know a doctor who is now on faculty at NYU who went to the carribean for medical school and she is a very bright lady.
I think people just have a stigma with the carribean schools but at the end of the day, it is your own decision to make. I know that some people will reply to this thread with some strong opinions and disagree but hey, it's just an opinion. As long as an individual has drive and determination, they have the ability to succeed wherever they are.

 

[gotmeds?]

You know, we just had a pretty big thread about people who chose a DO acceptance over an MD acceptance with some pretty good arguments made on both sides. But have you ever heard of anyone choosing a Caribbean MD program over a US program? I'm guessing no.

 

[hmm...]

the best advice i heard from two residents when I was interviewing was to "go to most prestigious school you can get into." this seems obvious, but they they also said that its is unpublished fact is that competitive residencies place a substantial weight on the medschool you are coming from.

 

[CagedBird]

the best advice i heard from two residents when I was interviewing was to "go to most prestigious school you can get into." this seems obvious, but they they also said that its is unpublished fact is that competitive residencies place a substantial weight on the medschool you are coming from.

Hmm, that is interesting. People in other threads say to go to the cheapest school, but I would think what you said is highly valuable considering that it came from two residents.

 

[colliea21]

Hmm, that is interesting. People in other threads say to go to the cheapest school, but I would think what you said is highly valuable considering that it came from two residents.

I was about to reply the same...If I had to choose I would go the cheapest one...I am scared of huge, huge loans...

 

[Law2Doc]

I was wondering why are caribbean schools portrayed as the lowest thing you can go. I have read comments saying that if you don't get into US schools for 2 years then (what the hell) go to the caribbean. And what's with "you won't get a decent residency if you go to a carib. school?" I think that if the school is accredited and you get high USMLE scores and do your thing while in med school you have pretty good chances of getting a "decent" residency. Sure, a Harvard/Hopkins doc has the "reputation" factor backing him up but not everything is about that...just my opinion.

For the most part, the offshore medical schools were created as a cottage industry to make money while providing a "second chance" to folks who were unable to secure a spot in a US school. They are thus, by their very nature, not a first choice. Most are not, contrary to your suggestion "accredited" by the same accrediting organizations that accredit US allo schools. In general, if you plan to practice in the US, the optimal route will be to attend med school in the US. If you are unable to, then sure, there's always the caribbean to give you your second chance. But it is a harder road and residency options at the other end tend not to be equal.

 

[spicedmanna]

For the most part, the offshore medical schools were created as a cottage industry to make money while providing a "second chance" to folks who were unable to secure a spot in a US school. They are thus, by their very nature, not a first choice. Most are not, contrary to your suggestion "accredited" by the same accrediting organizations that accredit US allo schools. In general, if you plan to practice in the US, the optimal route will be to attend med school in the US. If you are unable to, then sure, there's always the caribbean to give you your second chance. But it is a harder road and residency options at the other end tend not to be equal.

Thank you.

 

[NonTradMed]

For the most part, the offshore medical schools were created as a cottage industry to make money while providing a "second chance" to folks who were unable to secure a spot in a US school. They are thus, by their very nature, not a first choice. Most are not, contrary to your suggestion "accredited" by the same accrediting organizations that accredit US allo schools. In general, if you plan to practice in the US, the optimal route will be to attend med school in the US. If you are unable to, then sure, there's always the caribbean to give you your second chance. But it is a harder road and residency options at the other end tend not to be equal.

What he said.

The other threads aren't saying that going to the carribean schools will mean you won't be a doctor, but that it's harder to be one.

The attrition rate if higher, the passing rate is lower. And it's harder to get into a speciality and/or competitive residency program. That may not seem like a big deal while you're a premed, but once you're in med school, you will feel the restriction placed on you by going carribean. As previously stated, the carribeans are a school of 'second chance'. Take it as that, don't apply unless you've tried the US schools first.

 

[colliea21]

For the most part, the offshore medical schools were created as a cottage industry to make money while providing a "second chance" to folks who were unable to secure a spot in a US school. They are thus, by their very nature, not a first choice. Most are not, contrary to your suggestion "accredited" by the same accrediting organizations that accredit US allo schools. In general, if you plan to practice in the US, the optimal route will be to attend med school in the US. If you are unable to, then sure, there's always the caribbean to give you your second chance. But it is a harder road and residency options at the other end tend not to be equal.

well, considering I am from Puerto Rico (which is why I posted this thread) I looked up if the med schools here in puerto rico are accredited. There are three (out of three?, not sure of that) med schools here and ALL of them are accredited by LCME...so I am not sure of what you are saying...I can't talk about other schools, but here in PR we've got three.

 

[Law2Doc]

well, considering I am from Puerto Rico (which is why I posted this thread) I looked up if the med schools here in puerto rico are accredited. There are three (out of three?, not sure of that) med schools here and ALL of them are accredited by LCME...so I am not sure of what you are saying...I can't talk about other schools, but here in PR we've got three.

Agree. But PR tends not to be what people mean on here when they say offshore or caribbean schools. These schools are LCME accredited and are "US allo" med schools. When people on SDN refer to the second chance schools they are talking about SGU, AUC, Ross, SABA, etc. etc.

 

[dynx]

well, considering I am from Puerto Rico (which is why I posted this thread) I looked up if the med schools here in puerto rico are accredited. There are three (out of three?, not sure of that) med schools here and ALL of them are accredited by LCME...so I am not sure of what you are saying...I can't talk about other schools, but here in PR we've got three.

Thats because the US owns PR.

 

[colliea21]

Agree. But PR tends not to be what people mean on here when they say offshore or caribbean schools. These schools are LCME accredited and are "US allo" med schools. When people on SDN refer to the second chance schools they are talking about SGU, AUC, Ross, SABA, etc. etc.

didn't know that...i mean PR is considered as ''caribbean'' in every other way...but is nice to know this....thanks!

PS US doesn't own PR.

 

[dynx]

PS US doesn't own PR.

Is that what they teach you in PR schools? We're taught that we bought PR in 1962 for 828 pesos so that we could nuke them as an example to cuba of our ability to destroy a small island nation, should the need ever arise. Wierd.

 

[spicedmanna]

well, considering I am from Puerto Rico (which is why I posted this thread) I looked up if the med schools here in puerto rico are accredited. There are three (out of three?, not sure of that) med schools here and ALL of them are accredited by LCME...so I am not sure of what you are saying...I can't talk about other schools, but here in PR we've got three.

"What we have here is failure to communicate..."

I think there is a misunderstanding. When people talk about Caribbean schools they are not talking about PR. They are talking about the Caribbean Islands: Grenada, St. Vincent and The Grenadines, St. Lucia, Martinque, Dominica, Guadeloupe, Antigua, Barbuda, St. Eustastius, St. Barts, Anguila, St. Martin, SABA, etc.

 

[MadHopsMD]

"What we have here is failure to communicate..."

I think there is a misunderstanding. When people talk about Caribbean schools they are not talking about PR. They are talking about the Caribbean Islands: Grenada, St. Vincent and The Grenadines, St. Lucia, Martinque, Dominica, Guadeloupe, Antigua, Barbuda, St. Eustastius, St. Barts, Anguila, St. Martin, SABA, etc.

wow are you kidding me...There are that many med schools in Caribbean?

 

[hmm...]

What he said.

The other threads aren't saying that going to the carribean schools will mean you won't be a doctor, but that it's harder to be one.

The attrition rate if higher, the passing rate is lower. And it's harder to get into a speciality and/or competitive residency program. That may not seem like a big deal while you're a premed, but once you're in med school, you will feel the restriction placed on you by going carribean. As previously stated, the carribeans are a school of 'second chance'. Take it as that, don't apply unless you've tried the US schools first.

i fear that some (not PR) schools are simply profit-driven "proprietary" schools that are not fully engaged a good medical school having clinical, research and teaching aspects.

 

[MadHopsMD]

Is that what they teach you in PR schools? We're taught that we bought PR in 1962 for 828 pesos so that we could nuke them as an example to cuba of our ability to destroy a small island nation, should the need ever arise. Wierd.

lmao

 

[spicedmanna]

wow are you kidding me...There are that many med schools in Caribbean?

Ross is in Dominica; AUA and University of Health Sciences are in Antigua; AUC is in St. Martaan; International University of Health Sciences is in St. Kitts; SABA is in SABA; Spartan Health Sciences University is in St. Lucia; University of Sint Eustasius Medical School is in St. Eustasius; SGU is in Grenada; St. Mary's School of Medicine is St. Lucia, Windsor University School of Medicine is in St. Kitts; etc...

 

[colliea21]

"What we have here is failure to communicate..."

I think there is a misunderstanding. When people talk about Caribbean schools they are not talking about PR. They are talking about the Caribbean Islands: Grenada, St. Vincent and The Grenadines, St. Lucia, Martinque, Dominica, Guadeloupe, Antigua, Barbuda, St. Eustastius, St. Barts, Anguila, St. Martin, SABA, etc.

of course, which is why I specifically said I was only going to talk about PR and no others...("...I can't talk about other schools, but here in PR we've got three.")...but hey, that was before I knew PR wasn't in the "Caribbean Schools" category. (for the record, not saying it in a mocking way)

Is that what they teach you in PR schools? We're taught that we bought PR in 1962 for 828 pesos so that we could nuke them as an example to cuba of our ability to destroy a small island nation, should the need ever arise. Wierd.

hahaha, u kidding me?...

 

[gujuDoc]

Ross is in Dominica; AUA and University of Health Sciences are in Antigua; AUC is in St. Martaan; International University of Health Sciences is in St. Kitts; SABA is in SABA; Spartan Health Sciences University is in St. Lucia; University of Sint Eustasius Medical School is in St. Eustasius; SGU is in Grenada; St. Mary's School of Medicine is St. Lucia, Windsor University School of Medicine is in St. Kitts; etc...

yeah and all of these schools tend to weed out people AFTER they get into med school rather then before.

Take ross for example. They have 900 students incoming and they don't have all those nice programs in which they want to see you succeed. Here the schools will do a lot to see you through the program because they weed you out before you enter by not letting anyone and everyone in and only letting smaller numbers in through a great deal of selectivity.

 

[dynx]

hahaha, u kidding me?...

of course. PR is beautiful btw.

 

[Dookter]

yeah and all of these schools tend to weed out people AFTER they get into med school rather then before.

Take ross for example. They have 900 students incoming and they don't have all those nice programs in which they want to see you succeed. Here the schools will do a lot to see you through the program because they weed you out before you enter by not letting anyone and everyone in and only letting smaller numbers in through a great deal of selectivity.

900 people?!?!?!?!?!

 

[Dookter]

of course. PR is beautiful btw.

Wait, you were kidding????

 

[Mr. Itchy]

Is that what they teach you in PR schools? We're taught that we bought PR in 1962 for 828 pesos so that we could nuke them as an example to cuba of our ability to destroy a small island nation, should the need ever arise. Wierd.

Overpaid....




























lol

 

[Re3iRtH]

FOR THE OP:

Here's a story. A student with a 3.8 and 30 on the mcat had
bad luck and couldnt get into a US school. So he went to the
Carribean (ROSS UNIVERSITY). He scored in the 99th percentile
on his USMLEs (equivalent to somewhere around a 41-42 on the
mcat).. Well guess what? He applied to tons of US residencies
and he has to do an INTERNSHIP 1st {(below residency) (Something
US students never even have to worry about)} before he can do
his residency.

Does that tell you anything?

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Is that what they teach you in PR schools? We're taught that we bought PR in 1962 for 828 pesos so that we could nuke them as an example to cuba of our ability to destroy a small island nation, should the need ever arise. Wierd.

Oh and don't forget we also needed a place to unleash our government's latest chimera for Stage III field trials.

 

[hmm...]

FOR THE OP:

Here's a story. A student with a 3.8 and 30 on the mcat had
bad luck and couldnt get into a US school. So he went to the
Carribean (ROSS UNIVERSITY). He scored in the 99th percentile
on his USMLEs (equivalent to somewhere around a 41-42 on the
mcat).. Well guess what? He applied to tons of US residencies
and he has to do an INTERNSHIP 1st {(below residency) (Something
US students never even have to worry about)} before he can do
his residency.

Does that tell you anything?

wow

 

[StringerBell]

Sure, a Harvard/Hopkins doc has the "reputation" factor backing him up but not everything is about that

No, not everything is about that, but a significant part is, especially with all other things being equal. Even if they weren't equal, one would be hard pressed to find a top graduate of a Carribean school matching up with a residency, over even a bottom-of-the-pack Harvard student. I would imagine that one need not go as far as the Carribean, even, to make that point - it may even be true for a resident of "Southwest State University" vs. Harvard, as far as academic reputation.

It's kind of like the winner of the N.I.T. basketball tournament (of those teams that don't make the NCAA tournament) being known as the "66th best team in the country." And in truth, they aren't even that.

When I was working in a hospital, a physician friend/mentor of mine told me that if I was serious about going to medical school, that I should apply broadly including the Carribean. That same doctor later rescinded that opinion and gave me an article that questioned the quality of education at a Carribean medical school, citing that the curriculum is geared towards passing the USMLE rather than preparing one for the practice of medicine.

Of course, everyone has heard a story that will back up either side of the argument, as evidenced earlier in this thread. But I would tend to agree with the poster who stated that Carribean medical schools are by their very nature a "second choice." And in truth, probably more like a "distant third" choice, behind osteopathic schools, especially as far as residency matches are concerned.

Just my two cents.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Forget 3rd choice.....this is how I would rank the options:
1-US Allopathic
2-Osteopathic
3-Irish medical schools
4-UK medical schools
5-Israeli medical schools
6-German medical schools (for those with the language skills)
7-Caribbean medical schools.

 

[Kuba]

No, not everything is about that, but a significant part is, especially with all other things being equal. Even if they weren't equal, one would be hard pressed to find a top graduate of a Carribean school matching up with a residency, over even a bottom-of-the-pack Harvard student. I would imagine that one need not go as far as the Carribean, even, to make that point - it may even be true for a resident of "Southwest State University" vs. Harvard, as far as academic reputation.

It's kind of like the winner of the N.I.T. basketball tournament (of those teams that don't make the NCAA tournament) being known as the "66th best team in the country." And in truth, they aren't even that.

When I was working in a hospital, a physician friend/mentor of mine told me that if I was serious about going to medical school, that I should apply broadly including the Carribean. That same doctor later rescinded that opinion and gave me an article that questioned the quality of education at a Carribean medical school, citing that the curriculum is geared towards passing the USMLE rather than preparing one for the practice of medicine.

Of course, everyone has heard a story that will back up either side of the argument, as evidenced earlier in this thread. But I would tend to agree with the poster who stated that Carribean medical schools are by their very nature a "second choice." And in truth, probably more like a "distant third" choice, behind osteopathic schools, especially as far as residency matches are concerned.

Just my two cents.

Ummm.... I would argue the winner of the NIT is much better then 66th best. prob around 30th.

FOR THE OP:

Here's a story. A student with a 3.8 and 30 on the mcat had
bad luck and couldnt get into a US school. So he went to the
Carribean (ROSS UNIVERSITY). He scored in the 99th percentile
on his USMLEs (equivalent to somewhere around a 41-42 on the
mcat).. Well guess what? He applied to tons of US residencies
and he has to do an INTERNSHIP 1st {(below residency) (Something
US students never even have to worry about)} before he can do
his residency.

Does that tell you anything?

umm... ... almost all students do an internship year..granted some have it built into their residencies.

 

[StringerBell]

Hey Dropkick Murphy...
Great avatar!

 

[StringerBell]

Ummm.... I would argue the winner of the NIT is much better then 66th best. prob around 30th.

Actually, yeah, you're probably right, when you figure in all the conference tourney winners that get an automatic bid to the NCAA tournament.
Still, it makes you an also-ran.

I guess I should revel in my own alma mater's 1999 NIT Championship, then.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Hey Dropkick Murphy...
Great avatar!

Thank you.

 

[Kuba]

Actually, yeah, you're probably right, when you figure in all the conference tourney winners that get an automatic bid to the NCAA tournament.
Still, it makes you an also-ran.

I guess I should revel in my own alma mater's 1999 NIT Championship, then.

While I revel in my school's 1999 (and 2004) NCAA championship.

 

[MadHopsMD]

Thank you.

Dropkick I agree...i love your flow charts too...did you draw that avatar yourself?

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Dropkick I agree...i love your flow charts too...did you draw that avatar yourself?

Thank you No, it's based off of a gift wrap available from TShirthell.com

 

[CagedBird]

What does OP signify?
It's been bothering me for some time.

 

[Syranope2]

Two things -

1) One of the reasons that Caribbean schools are thought of as lower than US allo schools is because you will be considered an FMG when applying for residency, even if you completed your clinical rotations at hospitals in the US. That makes a tremendous difference for residency applications. That said, many Caribbean grads do fine for themselves.

2) OP means original poster.

 

[Re3iRtH]

Ok I'll make it clearer..
He didnt get into any typical US residencies.
At all. He has to do a internship in order to even have
a chance at getting into a US residency.

 

[Law2Doc]

umm... ... almost all students do an internship year..granted some have it built into their residencies.

Not since the 80s. Used to be an internship year in medicine where you became a generalist, and then you specialized in your residency. Now you match directly into residency in most cases. But the OP meant there are one year internships for people who cannot get directly into residency.

 

[GAdoc]

I feel I can speak on this matter because I came within an angry fiance of attending either SGU or Ross.

I never had a backup plan for what would happen if I didn't get into a US allo. school right out of undergrad. When the rejections started rolling in, I foolishly considered NO D.O. schools and instead applied to Ross and SGU. I had a 3.56 GPA and 24 MCAT. I was accepted to both schools, but no US schools. Over my senior year, I considered the pros and cons. Here is what I came up with:

PROS:
1. Second chance
2. The best schools (Ross and SGU that I know of) allow you to receive US loans (Stafford sub and unsub.)
3. Fairly impressive match stats into US residencies
4. Pretty impressive first time pass rate on the USMLE

CONS:
1. Inevitable stigma
2. At any time, the US government could decide to cut Stafford eligibility to Carrib. schools (since they are GOVERNMENT loans)
3. Always the risk of dropping an equivalent amount of money as you would at a US School but not being on an equal playing field when applying for residency
4. In order to have the appearance of high first time USMLE pass rate and impressive residency match, they have to make sure only the best end up taking the test. Therefore, if living conditions and homesickness don't get you, the first and second year may.

There's no right or wrong answer. The best doctor I've ever shadowed graduated from Ross. But he was the first to tell me they are PROACTIVE in their attempt to weed out many of those "900" first year kids that don't need to be there.

Just know yourself. If you need a "second chance" because you fooled around in college and ended up with some mistaks, then it might be a great idea to give the Carib a try. However, if you gave organic chem, biochem, or biology your best and still got a C or D you may need to face the hard facts...medicine may not be for you. And even though you hear stories of people bombing the MCAT and still blowing away the USMLE, it doesn't happen often. If it did, they would tweak them MCAT since it is supposed to predict your performance on the USMLE.

This is not an elitest mentality. It's just the hard truth. I'm a 5'10", 185 pound white guy, so I didn't spend much time working towards my goal of playing in the NBA. I love the idea of it, but it's just not going to happen. Don't waste a year of your life and $50,000 to learn this the hard way.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Hmm, that is interesting. People in other threads say to go to the cheapest school

That's because people don't know what they're talking about.

Going to the cheaper, less reputable school saves you money, but it does you no favors when applying for residency.

It's unfortunate, but reputation matters a lot in this field.

 

[Eric Lindros]

It's unfortunate, but reputation matters a lot in this field.

But we're talking US Allo vs. offshore allo. There's a huge difference there, much much larger than the difference between "top tier" US schools vs non-top tier.

 

[Eric Lindros]

Nurses make fun of people who went to the Carib. Trust me, it happens, and you don't want nurses making fun of you.

 

[Boris Badenov]

But we're talking US Allo vs. offshore allo. There's a huge difference there, much much larger than the difference between "top tier" US schools vs non-top tier.

Yeah, absolutely. That I can agree with.

While an American from a Caribbean school is still better off than your typical FMG, I'm curious as to how a Carribbean grad would compare to a DO grad.

 

[Eric Lindros]

Yeah, absolutely. That I can agree with.

While an American from a Caribbean school is still better off than your typical FMG, I'm curious as to how a Carribbean grad would compare to a DO grad.

Nowadays I would say D.O.

 

[gujuDoc]

900 people?!?!?!?!?!

Yes that's correct. Also, Ross has this thing where its seasonal acceptance so you can start in the fall or in the spring. Its not like everyone starts at the same time in fall and goes in the same sort of calendar they do here. Actually they don't have breaks set up in the same way as the American schools either.

 

[gujuDoc]

That's because people don't know what they're talking about.

Going to the cheaper, less reputable school saves you money, but it does you no favors when applying for residency.

It's unfortunate, but reputation matters a lot in this field.

I think that's true in any field. Law is worse. A LOT WORSE!!!!!!

I've heard people tell me with law you can't even get a decent high paying job unless you come out from one of the more prestigious programs because there's an overabundance of lawyers out there.