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ChemistWiz said:
Touché. For the article If I chose to believe in one over the other it would be because one had more evidence for it then the other. The Bible is a Vague book of stories that teach us morals. You said so yourself. Because of this it has a lack of evidence for me to believe it. God said this is right and this is wrong. But Aristotle and Plato had a list of morals similar to that and they knew nothing Of God. God also said its okay to stone your wife, and homosexuals. But it's bad to kill. So if you argued that times changed, that's fine. But then you are saying the Bible simply points out Human morals. That will never change, but other things do and those are the things that are often ignored in the bible, that have about as much proof for them as something else we do believe.

For the law comment, Laws have a certain level of importance.Some are very valuable, and some are part of a History. Look at Marijuana Illegalization, it has no need to be illegalized if you look at its history it was illegailized because of a Businessman. The law against singing. How old is that? It may have been written in a time where a hated group sang off key, or they loved singing so much. And no one has enforced said law in decades or more, but it remains because people forget about it and it's always been there. The UK has a law that all Kings and Queens must be Protestant, yet Religion in Europe is relatively unimportant now. The question isn't if it is hypocritical. it is if the law remains but no one cares about it Is it a law?
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http://www.minuteswithmessiah.com/question/stoning.html The old testement condoned stoneing. The New Testement which is what is followed by christianity does not condone stoneing. I believe Jesus' reaction to a woman who cheated was "One who is pure of soul may cast the first stone"(I don't remember the exact wording). Since noone was sinless noone could cast a stone. Jesus then went on to tell her to basically clean up her life.
Your argument is that times have changed so laws change. So can't religion change and evolve?
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Passion4Sci said:
Religion is a farce created by powerful people to control the weak-minded people who require something "bigger than themselves" to contribute to a society.

Simple as that...

Ever wonder why Jesus/God/whatever so conveniently has disappeared now that we have Youtube and video recorders?

Exactly.
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I had to laugh...even though I think your wrong :pThis is the problem with debating religion or politics, is its too close to the hearts of people to have rational debates most of the time, especially in public forums.
 
Passion4Sci said:
Ever wonder why Jesus/God/whatever so conveniently has disappeared now that we have Youtube and video recorders?
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Ill catch big foot on camera one day and post him on youtube. Just you watch.
 
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SHC1984 said:
I'll believe it when I see it. Too bad NO ONE has! :laugh:
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Very unfortunate and childish thing to say. Probably the most overused and immature argument used by those who believe so vehemntly that god does not exist. Especially when you assume he/she/it is some invisible man.

You cannot have science without religion and vice versa. They go hand in hand and each are a vital piece to the life long puzzle we seek to solve. The deeper one dives into learning about the variuos sciences, the more evident it becomes how insanely unimaginable our world and universe is. All by chance? Well that's where ones spiritual journey and faith begins. I was a non believer until I pursued pharmacy and began to fully understand upper level science courses. It is that educational journey of science that has strengthed my faith in a higher power or realm of existence.

You don't believe because you can't see it? Well tell me...can you see, hear, smell, taste or feel radio waves when you are on your cellphone? How about WiFi when you are using your computer? You can smell and taste those WiFi transmissions right? Are you able to communicate with cockroaches, ants and fish? Probably not, because their reality and realm of existence is completely different than ours. We all share this planet physically, but our conscious existence in time and space is not the same. So, do you truley believe that a god, entity, power or force would be so easily detected by our limited senses?

But in the end what does it matter, people will argue about this forever. If you're content with your beliefs than so be it. I know what I feel in my heart and mind and same goes with you.
 
Oh and by the way, I don't attend church or have any religious affliations. Haven't been to church in 13 years. It's faith and a sense in spirituality that I feel is important not a man made building filled with mostly man made ideas.
 
TonyRx said:
You cannot have science without religion and vice versa.
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If you're going to argue, at least make sense...and this makes no sense to me at all.

You don't believe because you can't see it? Well tell me...can you see, hear, smell, taste or feel radio waves when you are on your cellphone? How about WiFi when you are using your computer? You can smell and taste those WiFi transmissions right?
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No, but there are empirical measures that explain them. One can turn on a computer and see the wifi working. There is a scientific explanation for all of that. The proof of any sort of supernatual being in some other dimension doesn't exist.

I would say there is a vast difference.

Are you able to communicate with cockroaches, ants and fish? Probably not, because their reality and realm of existence is completely different than ours. We all share this planet physically, but our conscious existence in time and space is not the same. So, do you truley believe that a god, entity, power or force would be so easily detected by our limited senses?
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This is a terrible argument as well. I can "communicate" to them on their highest cognitive level via external stimulus. Throw a worm into the water and the fish goes after it. There is no logical reason that a higher being could communicate with a human on its cognitive level unless it is invented by people. Why couldn't this higher being just poof into existence and say "Hey! I exist!" then poof back into where it came from. They don't have to make me "understand them" on some unconceivable level I can't obtain. Do it to my highest cognitive level.
 
Im glad to see someone else agrees that science and religion support and compliment each other :) There was an article about this a few years ago in TIME or Newsweek as well.
 
I'm not sure how not being able to have science without religion and vice versa doesn't make sense. Many notable scientists (i.e. Einstein) and religious/ spiritual figures (i.e. dalai lama) have spoke of this and believe(d) in this.

Just because scientific explanation hasn't discovered or proven other dimensions or supernatural beings/entities doesn't mean they don't exist. Empirical measures that were used to deem "facts" hundreds of years ago, have since been dispelled or otherwise proven wrong. So that is not a valid argument.

There is much evidence throughout history that extraterrestrial life, and spiritual life has communicated with humans on their highest cognitive level. Most of it either gets dismissed or suppressed, for various reasons.

Like I said, its a matter of each individuals personal faith and belief. If you don't believe, then you better just hope your correct when you die.
 
Let's move this along. Now how many believe in the Lockness Monster, Bigfoot, and the chupacabra?
 
UNMorBUST said:
Let's move this along. Now how many believe in the Lockness Monster, Bigfoot, and the chupacabra?
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Agreed. I forgot that there is definitive, beyond a shadow of a doubt, indisputable evidence disproving their existences...oh wait, there isn't.
 
UNMorBUST said:
http://www.minuteswithmessiah.com/question/stoning.html The old testement condoned stoneing. The New Testement which is what is followed by christianity does not condone stoneing. I believe Jesus' reaction to a woman who cheated was "One who is pure of soul may cast the first stone"(I don't remember the exact wording). Since noone was sinless noone could cast a stone. Jesus then went on to tell her to basically clean up her life.
Your argument is that times have changed so laws change. So can't religion change and evolve?
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Yes Religion can. But the bible can't. we can't follow the Bible to the letter, we have to follow it's vague meanings. That is why it's hard for me to believe the Bible, and, therefore, Christianity which sometimes abides by what the Bible says word for word and sometimes follow it's Vague meaning. As a Scientific Person, I have to have a feeling of Knowing and Evidence. Something beyond Vagueness.
 
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UNMorBUST said:
Let's move this along. Now how many believe in the Lockness Monster, Bigfoot, and the chupacabra?
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The Locness monster is a Dinosaur that survived . Big Foot is a prehistoric Ape that survived. Chupacabra......Alien :eek:
 
TonyRx said:
Agreed. I forgot that there is definitive, beyond a shadow of a doubt, indisputable evidence disproving their existences...oh wait, there isn't.
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You can't prove something doesn't exist. It doesn't work that way. These existence of these beings, including God, are subject to the burden of proof, which "falls more heavily on the party that makes either an ontologically positive claim, or makes a claim more 'extraordinary'."
You don't "disprove their existence" - it's not anyone's responsibility. The nonbelievers don't have to. It's the people who claim they exist who are required to prove their "positive" claim.
 
Medwell said:
You can't prove something doesn't exist. It doesn't work that way. These existence of these beings, including God, are subject to the burden of proof, which "falls more heavily on the party that makes either an ontologically positive claim, or makes a claim more 'extraordinary'."
You don't "disprove their existence" - it's not anyone's responsibility. The nonbelievers don't have to. It's the people who claim they exist who are required to prove their "positive" claim.
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This is true. I'm a Christian, but I wholeheartedly agree with Anthony Flew's (who ironically is now a deist) arguement for the assumption of atheism. The logical position is to believe that something does not exist, until given evidence otherwise. The difference between me and you is that I have been convinced there is sufficient evidence to support the existence of God.
 
Liberty2010 said:
This is true. I'm a Christian, but I wholeheartedly agree with Anthony Flew's (who ironically is now a deist) arguement for the assumption of atheism. The logical position is to believe that something does not exist, until given evidence otherwise. The difference between me and you is that I have been convinced there is sufficient evidence to support the existence of God.
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What could you have possibly seen or heard or felt that would PROVE without a doubt that there is a God around here? LOL.... And please don't tell me a story about a time a almost dead relative came back to live. That has nothing to do with an imagery man...it's just because the person got better its that simple (cancer doesn't always kill right away!)! LOL....
 
ChemistWiz said:
Yes Religion can. But the bible can't. we can't follow the Bible to the letter, we have to follow it's vague meanings. That is why it's hard for me to believe the Bible, and, therefore, Christianity which sometimes abides by what the Bible says word for word and sometimes follow it's Vague meaning. As a Scientific Person, I have to have a feeling of Knowing and Evidence. Something beyond Vagueness.
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I completely understand your desire to approach this question from a logical/scientific perspective. I too share this desire, and I think you are overstating the "vagueness" of the Bible. Yes, there are passages that are difficult to understand. No, everyone does not agree on the specifics of every doctrine. Nonetheless, the core teachings of Christianity are strongly supported by the Bible. When you get down to the fundamental things that really matter, there is very little vagueness.
 
SHC1984 said:
What could you have possibly seen or heard or felt that would PROVE without a doubt that there is a God around here? LOL.... And please don't tell me a story about a time a almost dead relative came back to live. That has nothing to do with an imagery man...it's just because the person got better its that simple! LOL....
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First of all, judging from your posts in this thread i don't think you have any interest in discussing these things in a rational and respectfull manner, so I'm not sure why I'm even bothering to reply.

I also need to point out that I cannot "prove" God's existence. Prove is such a strong word, it seems like nobody has any respect for it outside of philosophy majors ;) But I certainly do think belief is rational.

Why do I believe? The answer to that is very complex, but I'll condense it down to the sort of thing you are probably looking for (no it does not involve anecdotal evidence:rolleyes:). I think the arguements from cosmology, teleology, and morality are pretty convincing that there must be some vague kind of higher power. But that would only make me a deist. My Christian beliefs are supported by the historical reliability of the Bible and evidence that Jesus actually walked the earth, made claims to be God, died, then was alive again three days later.

Your milage may vary, but this is what I'm convinced of. There are decent arguements against Christianity too (granted I think they can be answered pretty well).
 
woah... how did I accidentally walk into another one of these arguments. lol

thread title = misleading

(but I guess nothing else would make post count jump as fast as a heated religious debate) :sleep:
 
SHC1984 said:
What could you have possibly seen or heard or felt that would PROVE without a doubt that there is a God around here? LOL.... And please don't tell me a story about a time a almost dead relative came back to live. That has nothing to do with an imagery man...it's just because the person got better its that simple (cancer doesn't always kill right away!)! LOL....
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Come on be respectful of other peoples beliefs. I tried to hi-jack the hi-jacked thread with monsters to no avail.:smack:
 
We can hi-jack the hi-jacked thread with the Lebron James free-agency "sweepstakes"...Now that is nauseating. :scared:
 
Liberty2010 said:
First of all, judging from your posts in this thread i don't think you have any interest in discussing these things in a rational and respectfull manner, so I'm not sure why I'm even bothering to reply.

I also need to point out that I cannot "prove" God's existence. Prove is such a strong word, it seems like nobody has any respect for it outside of philosophy majors ;) But I certainly do think belief is rational.

Why do I believe? The answer to that is very complex, but I'll condense it down to the sort of thing you are probably looking for (no it does not involve anecdotal evidence:rolleyes:). I think the arguements from cosmology, teleology, and morality are pretty convincing that there must be some vague kind of higher power. But that would only make me a deist. My Christian beliefs are supported by the historical reliability of the Bible and evidence that Jesus actually walked the earth, made claims to be God, died, then was alive again three days later.

Your milage may vary, but this is what I'm convinced of. There are decent arguements against Christianity too (granted I think they can be answered pretty well).
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So you have proof for being a Deist. Not a Christian. Yes Jesus did Exist, He did Claim to be God, and he was crucified. As far as him being resurrected, there is no proof of that and if there was who knows if he died to begin with?

But enough of this. Lets all agree to Disagree. Honestly IDK why we must fight to bring others to believe what we do....
 
So who are you guys going for in college football this year?
 
U of M. I gotta stick with my Home state. And I look better in Blue then Green soooo.... go U of M.
 
I would pick my team. Seriously they won 1 game last year. The coach is a douchbag who hit fellow coachs and sexually harrasess secretaries and still won't get fired.
 
ChemistWiz said:
But enough of this. Lets all agree to Disagree
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Fair enough, these discussions never seem to accomplish much.

So... I'd be pumped if Lebron went to the Bulls, but even if he doesn't I heard a rumor that wade and bosh are seriously interested in Chicago. This year could be the first time in a long time that I'm not ashamed to be be a bulls fan!:xf:
 
UNMorBUST said:
So who are you guys going for in college football this year?
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I'm rooting for UConn to do better than last year. After all of those close losses, they could have done so much better! Then again, the football and the men's basketball teams both seem to give up when things start to get a little difficult. Hopefully that changes soon!

As for a team that has a shot, WVU. Fiancee's family is from WV and right across the river in Ohio, so I've picked up on their teams a little. Of course, when they play UConn my heart is with my alma mater.
 
UNMorBUST said:
Psshhh I'm never ashamed to be a bulls fan :cool:.
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Then you have more patience than i do ;)

Speaking of the bulls, this past week i sold an old autographed scottie pippen card on Ebay and got $177 for it! I'm thinking of trying to sell the rest of my collection now.
 
Liberty2010 said:
Then you have more patience than i do ;)

Speaking of the bulls, this past week i sold an old autographed scottie pippen card on Ebay and got $177 for it! I'm thinking of trying to sell the rest of my collection now.
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LOL wait for application time. You may need the money for interviews. I was reading an article in my school paper how Bryant is no comparison to Jordan :thumbup:.
 
Jordan's talent is unparalleled. I remember the early 90's (when the Bulls and the Suns were actually good). Those were some awesome teams and some awesome times for basketball. Nothing like beating the Lakers with a shot from half court right as the clock hits zero :)
 
http://www.hhs.gov/pharmacy/phpharm/howmany.html

Has anyone read this study? Scary stuff...

figure3.gif

Not many pharmacists near retirement.






figure4.gif


Study was done BEFORE the burst of new schools


:scared:
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
There is a movie called Wrong Turn set in WV?
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Yea if i remember correctly they make a wrong turn ( Obviously). They are then hunted down by inbred hill billys. First one was ok. Never watch the sequels.
 
DAMN this thread just got hijacked AGAIN.
 
Please take your discussion to the Off topic thread. k. thanks.
 
I saw that movie. It was horrendous. Made me never want to visit the backwoods of west virginia. I remember that during the democratic primaries, some of the people of west virginia didn't want to "vote for the colored fella" <-- their words. There was some big deal about in on NPR. Then it got swept under the rug. Of course I got to hear it because I was attached to the election like a baby to her mama.
 
rxlea said:
I saw that movie. It was horrendous. Made me never want to visit the backwoods of west virginia. I remember that during the democratic primaries, some of the people of west virginia didn't want to "vote for the colored fella" <-- their words. There was some big deal about in on NPR. Then it got swept under the rug. Of course I got to hear it because I was attached to the election like a baby to her mama.
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You hearing this WV folks :scared:.
 
rxlea said:
I saw that movie. It was horrendous. Made me never want to visit the backwoods of west virginia. I remember that during the democratic primaries, some of the people of west virginia didn't want to "vote for the colored fella" <-- their words. There was some big deal about in on NPR. Then it got swept under the rug. Of course I got to hear it because I was attached to the election like a baby to her mama.
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Please don't tell me you are this ignorant.

Now you've done it...

.....


Yeah...I paid attention to the election, too. I took a great interest in how my state was TRASHED by the media back in 2008. It turned out the percentage of Americans, about 20%, that thought race would be an issue in their vote was about the same percentage as those that thought that in West Virginia. No, I don't have a link, I just recall the polls and numbers because all of this pissed me off. But, oh no, nobody ever decided to report that. The ****ing ******* coastal liberals that think they are SO MUCH better than everyone else decided that everyone in WV is apparently racist as hell with no stats to back it up...in fact, they only had stats that showed the opinions of WV was about the same as anywhere else.

They decided that it was more entertaining to go to ****ing Mingo County and interview some hilljack that hasn't even seen a Walmart before about the black guy running for president.

It's the same thing they've been doing since the 19th century. Ride the country side until you find some rube willing to say something incredibly embarrassing and then pawn it off as the collective opinion of an entire people. They could go to an actual town like Charleston, Huntington, Morgantown, or Parkersburg and get a rational, informed opinion. But nooooooooooo...that wouldn't be interesting and heart warming to the city dweller that thinks they have an intellectual edge on every human being living in Appalachia.

For every racist ******* in WV, there is a Neo-Nazi in California or Arizona.

You're uniformed opinion is just as prejudiced as a racist that happens to live in WV. Seeing one idiot from WV on TV and watching one fictional movie and classifying the state as "a terrible place" is as bas as me calling all Hispanic people violent because I saw an episode of Gangland one time. Which I'm sure would offend you...as it should...but wtf...where does EVERYBODY get off doing that **** to my home state?

The reality is that WV is not a racist state. At all. I grew up in a multiracial house in WV. Nobody cared. Nobody gave us weird looks when a black guy had a little Scots-Irish white boy with blue eyes and light hair in tow at Burger King.

In fact, my stepfather's brother just got done performing at the local multicultural festival. In a town of 27,000 people, they got 15,000 people to show up at City Park and listen to people from all over the world...people of African, Hispanic, Indian (both dot and feather variety), and Asian decent...and everything in between...perform art from their native culture. And my step uncle plays bluegrass. None of the good ol boys seem to care when they play with him. Kid can sling that bow.

There was a poll conducted two years ago about who the most popular WV resident or native was. The winner in a landslide was a black fellow named Pat White. Second place was Jennifer Garner with like 1/8 of the votes.

Man it pisses me off...never set foot in the state...and you assume that we all go to clan rallies and lynch black people.

Even in its creation. WV was a state CREATED during the Civil War because a group of West Virginian abolitionists in Wheeling, WV didn't want to be associated with the Confederacy. They created their own congress and succeeded from Virginia to rejoin the Union.

During the early 20th century, the coal mines of WV were the first unions that allowed open membership. You would have blacks, Irish, Italians, and Polish all in the same union - unheard of in the day, first done in West By God Virginia.

...

But to some up my disdain towards the media for doing this to my state...it's a bunch of bull****. Fat people and Appalachians are the only groups of people it is acceptable to make fun of. They are getting in as many jabs as possible because fat people are starting to get a little bit of pity...its just us and Arabic folk now. If there is ever peace over there and they lose their ability to make fun of us and they will have to invent a new boogieman to come up with or risk...gasp...actually reporting the news...

...

It's damned ridiculous. Do me a favor. Come to Morgantown and don't leave until you witness racism or really any prejudice. You'll wind up living here until you die of old age.
 
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