When to apply?

[DoctorSynthesis]

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Hey so a quickish question. Couldn't find a similar situation when searching old threads.

Anyway so I have pretty much taken every major science course and I have taken the MCAT. My grades are good but I don't have much experience with research/shadowing/clinical and what not. I'm involved in clubs though and have leadership roles there. I know applying sooner is better but should I wait till the end of the summer to apply so I can work on getting alot of hours this summer beefing up my application or should I apply early in the summer and update my app?

Looking to apply DO only.

 

[WesternRedCedar]

Depends on GPA and MCAT.

What are your stats.

Beef up would be way to go if you're lower stats.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Depends on GPA and MCAT.

What are your stats.

Beef up would be way to go if you're lower stats.

 

[keels99]

Applying in August is still fairly early if you're looking to improve your ECs over the summer

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Applying in August is still fairly early if you're looking to improve your ECs over the summer

So you're saying to apply in August and to work on improving my ECs then is better then applying in June and updating my ECs later?

Already got tons of stuff lined up for the summer.

Congrats on ATSU BTW!!!! Thats awesome. 🙂

 

[keels99]

I think if you have a great volunteer experience (especially if it was notable enough to include in your personal statement) then I would wait. August is by no means late.

And thank you! I'm excited to be going to ATSU!

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I think if you have a great volunteer experience (especially if it was notable enough to include in your personal statement) then I would wait. August is by no means late.

And thank you! I'm excited to be going to ATSU!

I figured august wasn't late but then again I didn't know if applying super early would give me a better advantage.

 

[WhyDoWeFall]

I figured august wasn't late but then again I didn't know if applying super early would give me a better advantage. I'm into one school because of a dual program I'm in but to be honest I kind of want to go somewhere else. Thanks for your input!

Applying supper early is an advantage but if you have no research/shadowing/clinical experience, that could be a huge flaw with your application. I agree with everyone here, apply in August when you have beefed up your app. On a side note, you could complete the AACOMAS app, send in your transcripts and gather your LORs to whatever service to prep. That way when you are ready, you can send everything out ASAP. Good luck

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Applying supper early is an advantage but if you have no research/shadowing/clinical experience, that could be a huge flaw with your application. I agree with everyone here, apply in August when you have beefed up your app. On a side note, you could complete the AACOMAS app, send in your transcripts and gather your LORs to whatever service to prep. That way when you are ready, you can send everything out ASAP. Good luck

I hate saying this because research was the strongest part of my application, but if you don't have any research, it won't hurt much for DO.

 

[WhyDoWeFall]

I hate saying this because research was the strongest part of my application, but if you don't have any research, it won't hurt much for DO.

I think the clinical experience and shadowing def has a greater play as opposed to research. However I would also say that having research will help you out when/if you decide to do research in school and I heard that it does play a bigger role when you try to apply for residency. Even if it doesn't, being able to read a scientific journal really helps. Not saying you don't know how to read it in undergrad but I got so much better at it when I had to sift through hundreds of journals in order to write my paper for my project. Just my 2 cents. But yea, research won't hurt you like no clinical/shadowing experience will but it is an advantage.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I think the clinical experience and shadowing def has a greater play as opposed to research. However I would also say that having research will help you out when/if you decide to do research in school and I heard that it does play a bigger role when you try to apply for residency. Even if it doesn't, being able to read a scientific journal really helps. Not saying you don't know how to read it in undergrad but I got so much better at it when I had to sift through hundreds of journals in order to write my paper for my project. Just my 2 cents. But yea, research won't hurt you like no clinical/shadowing experience will but it is an advantage.

Thanks for the replies! I have shadowing but I don't have research actually. I also don't have a ton of shadowing. I have some. I'm working to get my app done asap but I was thinking about just including shadowing/research on my secondaries latter on? Is that possible?

 

[WhyDoWeFall]

Thanks for the replies! I have shadowing but I don't have research actually. I also don't have a ton of shadowing. I have some. I'm working to get my app done asap but I was thinking about just including shadowing/research on my secondaries latter on? Is that possible?

You certainly could include it on a secondary letter. I don't know of any place that requires you to shadow as an automatic disqualifies, however including an email to your top choices that you are currently shadowing/researching might be a good idea. My vote is to still wait for everything before submitting. Just makes things less messier later

 

[Andrew77]

I don't recall the AACOMAS having a section for shadowing. It was mostly secondaries.

I generally advise that anything less than 6 months is insubstantial experience, especially when it comes to research. Anyone can commit to 1-3 months of something -- especially when they're not doing anything else -- and even if you're able to verbalize your duties, it's difficult to actually say how much you've learned as compared to working there for 6 months or a year.
Also, with research, unless you were able to get published or if it was a prestigious internship (like with the NIH), I don't think most schools will see it as significant if you're starting just as you're applying.
Remember that a majority of other applicants have had their ECs on-going for a year or more by the time they apply.

In that sense, I think the only thing you can catch up on in the time between primaries and secondaries are shadowing hours. This is pretty significant considering you'd need a physician LOR anyway.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I don't recall the AACOMAS having a section for shadowing. It was mostly secondaries.

I generally advise that anything less than 6 months is insubstantial experience, especially when it comes to research. Anyone can commit to 1-3 months of something -- especially when they're not doing anything else -- and even if you're able to verbalize your duties, it's difficult to actually say how much you've learned as compared to working there for 6 months or a year.
Also, with research, unless you were able to get published or if it was a prestigious internship (like with the NIH), I don't think most schools will see it as significant if you're starting just as you're applying.
Remember that a majority of other applicants have had their ECs on-going for a year or more by the time they apply.

In that sense, I think the only thing you can catch up on in the time between primaries and secondaries are shadowing hours. This is pretty significant considering you'd need a physician LOR anyway.

I have a ton of LORs from physicians so that isn't a problem. I do have some shadowing for about 3 months but nothing too substantial (not sure about how many hours I did I have to go and ask). I do have a research thing that I was going to jump in and I should actually get published. idk if that changes things or not?


@whydowefail

 

[Andrew77]

I have a ton of LORs from physicians so that isn't a problem. I do have some shadowing for about 3 months but nothing too substantial (not sure about how many hours I did I have to go and ask). I do have a research thing that I was going to jump in and I should actually get published. idk if that changes things or not?

If this is just a matter of hours: I remember for the AMCAS, for each EC they ask you when you expect to end -- up to August of the end of the cycle and presumably before you start. For the AACOMAS, I remember they often asked for how many hours you dedicated to each EC. They definitely asked for start dates, but I don't think they asked for end dates. But I personally entered in the number of expected hours dedicated if it was on-going. Perhaps you can do the same. I ended up grossly underestimating some EC hours and grossly overestimating others. Woops.

If it's a matter of experiences, as I had mentioned: It looks bad to list a bunch of experiences that began 3 months or less prior to sending in your primary. It makes applicants seem fickle and/or panicked unless you have several that have been on-going for some time.
But if that isn't the case, which it sounds like it's not, you should just apply. I was under the impression that you were lacking in several significant EC categories, but you've stated otherwise. If you think you're competitive with just the number of experiences and can speak to the skills and characteristics you demonstrated (I would refrain from merely listing responsibilities in the EC section), the number of hours won't have mattered much. As you mentioned, it's always better to apply early rather than significantly later; you don't want to end up on the waitlist when you could have gotten in.

I should mention, from personal experience, few schools give a formal opportunity for you to update them. Some will do it during interview, but this is of most concern when you're waitlisted. You could opt to send your secondaries later, but not every secondary has a space for you to talk about whatever you want.

In terms of LORs: As an applicant, I always thought having a good number of LORs could never hurt. But remember a lot of schools limit their LORs to 3, some to 5, and very few are "unlimited." I would recommend avoiding two LORs in which the writers know you in the same context, as they can seem redundant and wasted. For instance, if you worked at a hospital as a tech, I wouldn't get two LORs from doctors you worked with. Same goes for just shadowing.

 

[polylux]

I don't recall the AACOMAS having a section for shadowing. It was mostly secondaries.

You just put it as another activity in the ECs section.

 

[Andrew77]

You just put it as another activity in the ECs section.

I see what you did. I just looked over my AACOMAS and I personally felt that it wasn't an appropriate place, since it asked for "Organization" and "Position." I suppose you could list them as "Physician Name/Practice" and "Shadow" respectively. I approached the section as a place to talk about your skills learned and characteristics demonstrated in differing environments. However, I had spent a significant amount of time working under several physicians, in addition to a specific internship that involved a fair amount of shadowing (but also other things that I talked about in the description). Shadowing experience in itself would be either redundant or insignificant in my case.
In this case to the OP: Maybe if you feel that the ADCOMs may not get a sense that you understand what it means to be in the healthcare setting, you should list shadowing hours.
I think most schools that are interested in your shadowing experience ask for details in the secondary and during the interviews. As I mentioned, I didn't list it, and made sure to have a personal anecdotal experience to describe if and when I was asked about shadowing. It all worked out in the end.

The most important thing is that you have an insight into a physician's life. Often, clinical experience can do the same thing for you for the purposes of an application. So, OP, you should just use your best judgement.

 

[polylux]

I didn't put in shadowing experience like that personally - I did have some shadowing, but it was attached to research positions, so I just listed it as a component of the research. But I would presume that you could just put one entry in for shadowing and just list all your hours in the description area.