When to reject DO acceptance?

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Jumpstartmy5HT

Jumpstartmy5HT

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I am an accepted student at a osteopathic school. I already paid my deposits and sent in most of my required forms. I was recently accepted to an allopathic program and am now seriously considering attending the allopathic program.

I haven't gotten my financial aid information squared away yet but plan to get it done within the next couple of days.

When do I have to inform the osteopathic school of my decision?

I am also still thinking whether an extra 10k a year is worth it to attend the allopathic program... Any advice would be appreciated.
 
Congrats! Nice to see you on the boards again.

Take the allopathic acceptance if it's a good school.

A lot of people are on the waitlist so as soon as you make a decision it would be nice to let them have the spot.
 
Thanks! I was all set to attend KCUMB in the fall. It's kind of surreal that I will probably be in a different region completely.
chizledfrmstone said:
Congrats! Nice to see you on the boards again.

Take the allopathic acceptance if it's a good school.

A lot of people are on the waitlist so as soon as you make a decision it would be nice to let them have the spot.
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Take the MD acceptance. I'd rather the seat go to someone who genuinely wants to be a DO.



Jumpstartmy5HT said:
I am an accepted student at a osteopathic school. I already paid my deposits and sent in most of my required forms. I was recently accepted to an allopathic program and am now seriously considering attending the allopathic program.

I haven't gotten my financial aid information squared away yet but plan to get it done within the next couple of days.

When do I have to inform the osteopathic school of my decision?

I am also still thinking whether an extra 10k a year is worth it to attend the allopathic program... Any advice would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
 
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Go to the MD school. It is worth the extra 40k.
 
Goro said:
Take the MD acceptance. I'd rather the seat go to someone who genuinely wants to be a DO.
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Chances are the next person to take the seat will just want to be a physician and could care less about being a DO. But, if you want to fool yourself into believing that the next person in line will be all gung ho DO, by all means bury your head in the sand.
 
Not OP...she'd rather pay an extra $10K/year for the MD. More power to her and I wish her well.

BestDoctorEver said:
@Goro... Some people genuinely want to be physicians. They don't care about the letters behind their name.
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But that person won't have OP's attitude. I'll gladly take someone who want to be a doctor not matter what the initials, but someone going to a DO school clearly won't be bothered by the initials. OP is, and is putting her money where her mouth is.


Chances are the next person to take the seat will just want to be a physician and could care less about being a DO. But, if you want to fool yourself into believing that the next person in line will be all gung ho DO, by all means bury your head in the sand.
 
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Why is MD always seen as the better choice. I don't see how going to a low tier MD school or being low ranked in your MD school class would be a better choice than being at the top of your DO school class. Wouldn't you get more opportunities out of the DO school in that case?
 
I just want to be a physician. I would like to have less battles to fight when it's time for residency placement. The extra 10k per year is basically an insurance policy for that time, but I am still not entirely sure it's worth it.
Goro said:
Take the MD acceptance. I'd rather the seat go to someone who genuinely wants to be a DO.
Click to expand...
 
Your call, OP. My students match just fine.

Jumpstartmy5HT said:
I just want to be a physician. I would like to have less battles to fight when it's time for residency placement. The extra 10k per year is basically an insurance policy for that time, but I am still not entirely sure it's worth it.
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Buckeye1992 said:
Why is MD always seen as the better choice. I don't see how going to a low tier MD school or being low ranked in your MD school class would be a better choice than being at the top of your DO school class. Wouldn't you get more opportunities out of the DO school in that case?
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I don't know if MD is always the better choice. But reading the boards here for the past year has made me apprehensive about DO biases during residency placement. A few of the vets here posted that they had to go apply to twice as many places as their MD counterparts and interview at more places to end up with less desirable positions. This whole residency thing is my main worry.
 
Buckeye1992 said:
Why is MD always seen as the better choice. I don't see how going to a low tier MD school or being low ranked in your MD school class would be a better choice than being at the top of your DO school class. Wouldn't you get more opportunities out of the DO school in that case?
Click to expand...

I was at the top of my DO school class, had a 250 step 1 258 step 2, excellent ECs (national leadership positions, ED tech for 7 years, etc), a 732 comlex 1 688 comlex 2, and I can tell you that I was flat out rejected by residency programs purely because I was a DO. Also, I applied to roughly twice as many places as MDs with lower stats to end up with the same number of interviews. So, yes, going MD, is generally a better idea. I did well, and ended up one of a handful of DOs in my specialty, but don't fool yourselves that going DO will not resort in discrimination against you for residency.
 
sylvanthus said:
I was at the top of my DO school class, had a 250 step 1 258 step 2, excellent ECs (national leadership positions, ED tech for 7 years, etc), a 732 comlex 1 688 comlex 2, and I can tell you that I was flat out rejected by residency programs purely because I was a DO. Also, I applied to roughly twice as many places as MDs with lower stats to end up with the same number of interviews. So, yes, going MD, is generally a better idea. I did well, and ended up one of a handful of DOs in my specialty, but don't fool yourselves that going DO will not resort in discrimination against you for residency.
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More people need to prepare for reality!
 
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cabinbuilder said:
I'm with Goro in that I would rather someone apply and go to DO school to be a DO and be happy about it than go to DO school because they couldn't get into MD school and be a miserable soul who hates their life and their job because in their mind they went "the second class route" and make everyone else around them miserable too. I deal with angry, ugly doctors every day (most are specialists) who obviously made the wrong choice in going to medical school and do their best to make every else's lives miserable too.
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If you didn't have a rocky start, but instead had a 3.8 gpa with no retakes by the end of Ugrad and had the option to go to your instate school ie the 4 state agreement for Alaska. What would you have said the same thing?

I think people can be happy going to become a DO. I know I will, but that's more because I want to practice medicine.
 
Goro said:
Your call, OP. My students match just fine.
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I don't think there is denying that certain specialties are far more easily accessible to MDs if not entirely closed to them.

I mean the poor feels to the DO who finds out their 4th year they want to do radiation oncology or wants to specialize in an ultra academic program so that they can do medical research.


I mean for what it is worth, I know I don't want he surgery life style and I probably wouldn't have fun with it. So DO is satisfactory for my goals.
 
cabinbuilder said:
I'm with Goro in that I would rather someone apply and go to DO school to be a DO and be happy about it than go to DO school because they couldn't get into MD school and be a miserable soul who hates their life and their job because in their mind they went "the second class route" and make everyone else around them miserable too. I deal with angry, ugly doctors every day (most are specialists) who obviously made the wrong choice in going to medical school and do their best to make every else's lives miserable too.
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Or it is because someone took the MCAT 4 times. Im all about keeping things real. Somehow I seriously doubt you wanted to be a DO because you had a choice in MD or DO, but because you had a choice in DO or nothing.

"I'm not the one to ask about MD, since I am DO. I don't believe in the whole tier thing. 4 times taking the test is a red flag (I took it 4 times). You will have to do the research into schools that fit your numbers profile."
 
Everyone needs to take a deep breath....goro and cabin both offer a lot of great advice on this forum. They might be more loyal to the concept of DO than I am but that doesn't mean anyone needs to get heated


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
cabinbuilder said:
Not going to bring up that ugly story about WAMI. Glad you all are just clinging to every post I have ever made? Funny how Goro doesn't get flamed but I do for agreeing with him? Nice.
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No, I'm not flaming you at all. I think you're probably one of the few members of this site that are respectable. That is why I actually pay attention to your story.
 
One of the things I've learned this year is that residencies treat medical schools like medical schools treat UG programs. If your med school has previously sent grads to residency, then it's likely that you can match into that residency. If they don't know your school, then no matter what your boards scores and class rank was, they're not going to take take you.

Some residency directors just don't understand or want to deal with COMLEX. However, with the ACGME/AOA merger, this should be less of an issue.

One of my recent grads matched into a surgery residency, and he felt that he had to work a little harder to get there. So I'll grant that it's no picnic, but I suspect that if you work for it, you can get it.



sylvanthus said:
I was at the top of my DO school class, had a 250 step 1 258 step 2, excellent ECs (national leadership positions, ED tech for 7 years, etc), a 732 comlex 1 688 comlex 2, and I can tell you that I was flat out rejected by residency programs purely because I was a DO. Also, I applied to roughly twice as many places as MDs with lower stats to end up with the same number of interviews. So, yes, going MD, is generally a better idea. I did well, and ended up one of a handful of DOs in my specialty, but don't fool yourselves that going DO will not resort in discrimination against you for residency.
Click to expand...
 
If I end up going to the DO route, I would be happy to be a physician. It would be the same if I went to the MD route. Ultimately the initials do not matter to me. It's the potential problems I could face later that is swaying my decision. I would like to not spend an extra 40k and throw away the $2500 I already spent, but having more opportunities later in life may be worth this investment. Who knows.

I wonder if I go the MD route, I wonder if I am learn OMM since the merger is happening. After visiting DMU, I really, really would like to learn some aspects of OMM.
cabinbuilder said:
I'm with Goro in that I would rather someone apply and go to DO school to be a DO and be happy about it than go to DO school because they couldn't get into MD school and be a miserable soul who hates their life and their job because in their mind they went "the second class route" and make everyone else around them miserable too. I deal with angry, ugly doctors every day (most are specialists) who obviously made the wrong choice in going to medical school and do their best to make every else's lives miserable too.
Click to expand...
 
Jumpstartmy5HT said:
I am an accepted student at a osteopathic school. I already paid my deposits and sent in most of my required forms. I was recently accepted to an allopathic program and am now seriously considering attending the allopathic program.
I haven't gotten my financial aid information squared away yet but plan to get it done within the next couple of days.
When do I have to inform the osteopathic school of my decision?
I am also still thinking whether an extra 10k a year is worth it to attend the allopathic program... Any advice would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

This is coming from NYU Internal Med FAQ

http://medicine.med.nyu.edu/education/im-residency-homepage/faqs#dd

2qmkl50.jpg


At least NYU has no shame in publicly admitting to it, but there are plenty of programs that will never take you even if they don't post it in their FAQ, no matter how talented you are, simply because you're a DO.

Do you really want to be idealistic in this point of your life or realistic? What if you excel in medical school and want things like ACGME Derm, ACGME Ortho, ACGME surgical sub-specialty, or even in love with some Internal Med programs but realize that you could never touch those, not because of your resume, but because of being a DO?

People will tell you "you're gonna match fine" and yes, you may...but you rather have 95% doors open (some programs only want applicants from elite MD schools) then to proactively go to a school where your doors are only 75-80% open??!! Use common sense.

MD > DO > IMG > no acceptance
 
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sylvanthus said:
I was at the top of my DO school class, had a 250 step 1 258 step 2, excellent ECs (national leadership positions, ED tech for 7 years, etc), a 732 comlex 1 688 comlex 2, and I can tell you that I was flat out rejected by residency programs purely because I was a DO. Also, I applied to roughly twice as many places as MDs with lower stats to end up with the same number of interviews. So, yes, going MD, is generally a better idea. I did well, and ended up one of a handful of DOs in my specialty, but don't fool yourselves that going DO will not resort in discrimination against you for residency.
Click to expand...

Totally agree with this! My grades, scores, and experience were almost exactly this.

Towards the end of residency interview season I would get calls from the more competitive programs asking me to fill an interview slot. I'd show up knowing I was pulled off of their waitlist and knowing that my USMLE Step 1 was probably 20+pts higher than their average candidate and they would still ask me why I went to DO school. One even said, "We certainly don't take many DO's here".
 
da Vincis World said:
Totally agree with this! My grades, scores, and experience were almost exactly this.

Towards the end of residency interview season I would get calls from the more competitive programs asking me to fill an interview slot. I'd show up knowing I was pulled off of their waitlist and knowing that my USMLE Step 1 was probably 20+pts higher than their average candidate and they would still ask me why I went to DO school. One even said, "We certainly don't take many DO's here".
Click to expand...

Did you match at any of those residency programs mentioned above?
 
Dr. Zombie said:
Did you match at any of those residency programs mentioned above?
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Heck no man! They were relegated to the bottom of my rank list. At my last interview, when the PD pretty much told me how lucky I was to be there as a DO, I asked if my scores weren't 20 points higher than their average applicant. When the PD admitted they were, I then asked why it mattered what school I went to......first I heard crickets then a lot of dancing around the question. It was the highlight of interview season. I don't fit in around elitist sh*ts so no matter how "good" these programs were I didn't rank them very high.

I ended up matching at my #1, a place where I really wanted to be and that really wanted me there.....It all worked out.
 
Yah, I don't think I would have held back the vitriol at that point. I'm not exactly a proud person, but incompetent arrogance is irritating and I am more than willing to burn a bridge or two to make a petty old man remember that he will die unremembered before me.
 
da Vincis World said:
Heck no man! They were relegated to the bottom of my rank list. At my last interview, when the PD pretty much told me how lucky I was to be there as a DO, I asked if my scores weren't 20 points higher than their average applicant. When the PD admitted they were, I then asked why it mattered what school I went to......first I heard crickets then a lot of dancing around the question. It was the highlight of interview season. I don't fit in around elitist sh*ts so no matter how "good" these programs were I didn't rank them very high.

I ended up matching at my #1, a place where I really wanted to be and that really wanted me there.....It all worked out.
Click to expand...

I'm really happy you actually put the PD in his place, instead of allowing him to verbally eat you up just because you were seen as a lowly applicant.

This is why this whole DO "separate but equal" slogan has gotten old. If we can just merge everything, standardize everything, we all would be in a better place, where the opportunities we get is in direct correlation with our competence and performance and not degree politics.

What specialty did you go into?
 
With the merger making AOA programs basically adhere to ACGME or close, isn't that basically like a bunch of acgme spots opening up to us? Maybe not in reputation but the training should be improved at many current AOA residencies right?
 
Yup!

Buckeye1992 said:
With the merger making AOA programs basically adhere to ACGME or close, isn't that basically like a bunch of acgme spots opening up to us? Maybe not in reputation but the training should be improved at many current AOA residencies right?
Click to expand...
 
Buckeye1992 said:
With the merger making AOA programs basically adhere to ACGME or close, isn't that basically like a bunch of acgme spots opening up to us? Maybe not in reputation but the training should be improved at many current AOA residencies right?
Click to expand...

Just because something is acgme accredited doesn't mean it's good. There are plenty of terrible acgme programs.
 
Dr. Zombie said:
I'm really happy you actually put the PD in his place, instead of allowing him to verbally eat you up just because you were seen as a lowly applicant.

This is why this whole DO "separate but equal" slogan has gotten old. If we can just merge everything, standardize everything, we all would be in a better place, where the opportunities we get is in direct correlation with our competence and performance and not degree politics.

What specialty did you go into?
Click to expand...
That discrimination will likely remain even with the merger... The problem is not 'standardization'; the problem is the DO degree. It seems like a majority of PDs will not discriminate against the worst US MD schools if the applicant has high step score... On the other hand, if you come from the best US DO school with high step scores, a lot of them will discriminate against you because of your degree. I might be wrong, but this is the feeling I got from reading @cliquesh and other SDN members' posts.
 
BestDoctorEver said:
That discrimination will likely remain even with the merger... The problem is not 'standardization'; the problem is the DO degree. It seems like a majority of PDs will not discriminate against the worst US MD schools if the applicant has high step score... On the other hand, if you come from the best US DO school with high step scores, a lot of them will discriminate against you because of your degree. I might be wrong, but this is the feeling I got from reading @cliquesh and other SDN members' posts.
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It's funny you say that. I know of a few programs that take SGU and Ross graduates over DO students.
 
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Dr. Zombie said:
It's funny you say that. I know of a few programs that take SGU and Ross graduates over DO students.
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It is a sad thing, but that **** gotta stop... People bust their behind to get into a US school, and then will be at disadvantage to Carib students at some programs when applying for residency assuming everything is somewhat equal...
 
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Do you want to be a DO? If you do, then go to the DO school. I don't know why you're making a thread about this. This is silly.
 
Wow, there are a lot of Jimmies that have been rustled.

Its no super secret that a majority of people would much rather have the MD US program than a DO one. To some, the Letters mean a lot to them. I know I was one person that wrestled with just applying to DO schools vs trying to get into an SMP program and hope to get into an MD program.

Personally, I love DO schools. The grade replacement is a huge blessing, and the lower MCAT requirements help us non robots who are passionate about medicine have a chance at med school.

My admiration for DO school leads me to believe that with the exception of my state school (an MD school which is almost 15K less than all other DO schools) I would pick DO school over MD because of the different letters. Its almost a disguising feature. If my state had a DO school, I would pick it in a heartbeat over any MD program.

Back to the OP, take the MD acceptance. Congrats
 
Strudel19 said:
Do you want to be a DO? If you do, then go to the DO school. I don't know why you're making a thread about this. This is silly.
Click to expand...

I think this post has lead to some meaningful discussions, especially the ones involving current residents sharing their application woes. This time marks the beginning of another application cycle, and the information may prove useful to those who are applying.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Anywho, Seretonin call DMU on Tuesday to tell them you wish for your acceptance to go to someone else.
 
Dr. Zombie said:
I'm really happy you actually put the PD in his place, instead of allowing him to verbally eat you up just because you were seen as a lowly applicant.

This is why this whole DO "separate but equal" slogan has gotten old. If we can just merge everything, standardize everything, we all would be in a better place, where the opportunities we get is in direct correlation with our competence and performance and not degree politics.
Click to expand...

If outcomes between MD and DO were the same, then students who today would only apply MD would also apply DO. This would mean that mean GPA and MCAT for DO schools would approach low tier MD schools. Many of the supporters of MD/DO equality fail to realize that they would not have gotten into med school at all if this were the case.
 
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