When to reject DO acceptance?

[chizledfrmstone]

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I would really to come back to the west coast, but I didn't look like many residency programs (more competitive ones) took any DOs. Is that just a result of sampling error, regional bias, or a reality that DOs just don't get into more competitive programs?

Should I even be worried about residency at this point? Especially with ACGME/AOA merger?

Did you apply to Western U and Touro CA?

 

[shim0shim]

I am an accepted student at a osteopathic school. I already paid my deposits and sent in most of my required forms. I was recently accepted to an allopathic program and am now seriously considering attending the allopathic program.

I haven't gotten my financial aid information squared away yet but plan to get it done within the next couple of days.

When do I have to inform the osteopathic school of my decision?

I am also still thinking whether an extra 10k a year is worth it to attend the allopathic program... Any advice would be appreciated.

Hello Jumpstartmy5HT. I would like to advice you to read your own personal posts on this thread, and it should be a lot easier for you to decide which route it is that you want to go with. As you mentioned, "Ultimately the initials do not matter to me", "I would like to not spend an extra 40k and throw away the $2500 I already spent", "I really, really would like to learn some aspects of OMM", "I don't know if MD is always the better choice." By just reading your own posts, it seems like you have DO written all over you.

It seems to me that you are purely concerned about the obstacles you'll face when it comes to residency time. If you randomly choose a few DO schools on your list, and check their match list you will see that many match in very competitive residencies. The same goes with MD, many match in highly competitive and many match in less competitive spots. Plus, with the merger that is being considered, things are looking better for DO's. It all comes down to how hard you work for what you want. Like you said, all you want is to be a physician. You can achieve that by taking either route. The above posts have portrayed it as working a little harder as a DO to obtain a competitive residency compared to MD counterparts is a bad thing. But, it's exactly the opposite. It will make you stronger and better prepared for an intellectually challenging career ahead of you. Many DO's above have mentioned that they do not regret choosing DO, and everything worked out fine for them at the end. Similarly, every current DO student or graduated DO that I know is very happy with no regrets - in fact, many of them attended KCUMB and they had nothing but good things to say about the school.

I'd be very careful choosing MD based on what others have to say. This is ultimately your choice. But if you are worried about having to work harder to get into a competitive residency, or about biases associated with a DO then it may be to your advantage and the other DO's if you take the MD route. In that case, I would have to agree with Goro and Cabinbuilder. If you have decided the MD route regardless, please do us a favor and let the school know asap so the next person eager to be in your position (and will most probably, appreciate it more), can join the DO gang.

 

[Jumpstartmy5HT]

I am still deciding, but I am going to make it a personal goal to decide on something by June 1st so I am not holding onto two seats. There are things I like and dislike about both of these schools, and I keep on going back and forth about which one would be a better fit for me for the next 4 years. I am sure I will be fine at either one of these institutions.


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[cliquesh]

I am still deciding, but I am going to make it a personal goal to decide on something by June 1st so I am not holding onto two seats. There are things I like and dislike about both of these schools, and I keep on going back and forth about which one would be a better fit for me for the next 4 years. I am sure I will be fine at either one of these institutions.


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I'll yell at you if you don't go to the MD school.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

@sylvanthus, @cliquesh, and any other recent grads are going to provide you with the most meaningful advice. PM them and ask any questions you have.

Unless you're dead set on going into PC you should really consider the MD route.

 

[235009]

I am still deciding, but I am going to make it a personal goal to decide on something by June 1st so I am not holding onto two seats. There are things I like and dislike about both of these schools, and I keep on going back and forth about which one would be a better fit for me for the next 4 years. I am sure I will be fine at either one of these institutions.


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Even if you are certain you want to do PC you should still go to the MD school. There is literally no valid reason I can think of to pick a DO school over US MD other than family/geographic.

 

[235009]

It seems to me that you are purely concerned about the obstacles you'll face when it comes to residency time. If you randomly choose a few DO schools on your list, and check their match list you will see that many match in very competitive residencies. The same goes with MD, many match in highly competitive and many match in less competitive spots. Plus, with the merger that is being considered, things are looking better for DO's. It all comes down to how hard you work for what you want. Like you said, all you want is to be a physician. You can achieve that by taking either route. The above posts have portrayed it as working a little harder as a DO to obtain a competitive residency compared to MD counterparts is a bad thing. But, it's exactly the opposite. It will make you stronger and better prepared for an intellectually challenging career ahead of you. Many DO's above have mentioned that they do not regret choosing DO, and everything worked out fine for them at the end. Similarly, every current DO student or graduated DO that I know is very happy with no regrets - in fact, many of them attended KCUMB and they had nothing but good things to say about the school.

NONE of this is true! Talk about false equivalence. DO match lists look nothing like US MD match lists. Please enlighten us all about how you came up with your conclusion about these match lists? I can guarantee you have no idea what you're talking about.

Also almost every graduating DO and DO resident who has posted in this thread has told the OP to take the MD acceptance. What makes you more of an authority? I'm guessing your KCUMB friends are all preclinical students right?

 

[Jumpstartmy5HT]

I'll yell at you if you don't go to the MD school.

Haha, your comment made my decision an easier one!


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[SLC]

Ahh meat tornado, the old SkinMD himself.

I wonder why he changed his username?

OP, do whatever you want. Don't let anyone else's take on the matter sway you.

I'm a DO student, I've been happy. I am feeling the stress of the upcoming residency app season, and I do recognize that I won't have as easy a time as my MD student counterparts in the match. But I'm not so hung up on "prestige" or really even location for that matter. And there are plenty of programs in my field of interest that will get me where I want to go (fellowship) and are open to DO's.

I'd hang myself before I'd go to some stuffy, nose in the air, academic snobbery haven; it's just never been my scene. That's probably why I've been happy with my education and decision to attend an Osteopathic College. I have cool classmates, level headed and helpful faculty, and an all around healthy environment to study medicine in. I think that's allowed me to be quite successful while simultaneously enjoying myself for the past 3 years.

But it may have been the same at the right MD school, who knows. All I know is that I have no regrets so far, even with the residency issue hanging over my head.

 

[el_duderino]

I'd hang myself before I'd go to some stuffy, nose in the air, academic snobbery haven; it's just never been my scene.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Festinger?

 

[SLC]

Not quite!

Some of us just aren't so bent on appearances and the praise of others. I don't despise the Ivy League, and I'm sure doing my residency at Columbia or Harvard would be a great opportunity. But how much greater than say UofIowa or Missouri for someone who's entire goal is to get trained, get out, and get back home to Utah so he can practice at the local community hospital?

I think the better illustration is this:

In the end, I just don't care about going to a "top 10" program, and wouldn't even want to if I were an MD student. It's just not important to my goals, and the sacrifices I'd have had to make to get there are entirely not worth it to me. Not when I can do the same job, for the same pay, and in the same amount of time somewhere else that's more in line with my personality.

I have a wife and kids that make my life complete. My self worth is not tied up in how "prestigious" my medical training is.

 

[SLC]

Festinger?

Fox and the grapes.

He's trying to imply that I claim not to be concerned about a top residency because a top residency is not attainable as a DO student.

 

[el_duderino]

Fox and the grapes.

He's trying to imply that I claim not to be concerned about a top residency because a top residency is not attainable as a DO student.

No, I'm claiming that you're disparaging top programs by accusing them of "stuffy, nose in the air, academic snobbery" because you weren't able to get into those programs.

That's the literal analogy: the fox insults the grapes in an attempt to rationalize his inability to get them.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Fox and the grapes.

He's trying to imply that I claim not to be concerned about a top residency because a top residency is not attainable as a DO student.

Yah, that's where festinger's cognitive dissonance theory. originated.

 

[SLC]

No, I'm claiming that you're disparaging top programs by accusing them of "stuffy, nose in the air, academic snobbery" because you weren't able to get into those programs.

That's the literal analogy: the fox insults the grapes in an attempt to rationalize his inability to get them.

I'm describing them that way because that's what they are.

 

[Back 5]

Congrats OP! Glad to see your success after our Nova experience

 

[shim0shim]

NONE of this is true! Talk about false equivalence. DO match lists look nothing like US MD match lists. Please enlighten us all about how you came up with your conclusion about these match lists? I can guarantee you have no idea what you're talking about.

Also almost every graduating DO and DO resident who has posted in this thread has told the OP to take the MD acceptance. What makes you more of an authority? I'm guessing your KCUMB friends are all preclinical students right?

I am not saying the match lists are like each other. I am saying that you will face challenges when it comes to being matched with both MD and DO route, and maybe more challenges for the DO route. If you are afraid of being more challenged, then go ahead take the MD route. And no, some of my friends are graduated and extremely happy with where they are for residency. FYI, you are no more of an authority than I or any other poster here. Everyone has a right to post here and there is no reason for you to be so disrespectful. We can agree to disagree.

I will not bother with reading or replying to your posts, as I found you very discouraging and rude to communicate with.

Bottom line is, I gave my opinion on here and instead of telling her/him what to do, I gave my own advice. I honestly, could care less what route the OP chooses. Good luck with whatever you choose.

 

[SLC]

...And no, some of my friends are graduated and extremely happy with where they are for residency...

This is key, what many pre-meds, and even medical students and residents for that matter, fail to realize is that a prestigious school or residency is not the key to happiness in life. The key is balance, which is something I think is harder at some of the more academically rigorous places; hence why I have no interest in matching to those types of places. I just don't think they are in line with what I'm hoping to get out of residency.

I will not bother with reading or replying to your posts, as I found you very discouraging and rude to communicate with.

@MeatTornado is the second iteration of SkinMD, one of the most notorious pseudo-trolls on the pre-med forums. I say pseudo-troll because I really don't think he intends to inflame, he just has a falsely elevated sense of importance and doesn't realize that not everyone shares the same goals and ambitions for their careers as he does.

 

[cliquesh]

This is key, what many pre-meds, and even medical students and residents for that matter, fail to realize is that a prestigious school or residency is not the key to happiness in life. The key is balance, which is something I think is harder at some of the more academically rigorous places; hence why I have no interest in matching to those types of places. I just don't think they are in line with what I'm hoping to get out of residency.



@MeatTornado is the second iteration of SkinMD, one of the most notorious pseudo-trolls on the pre-med forums. I say pseudo-troll because I really don't think he intends to inflame, he just has a falsely elevated sense of importance and doesn't realize that not everyone shares the same goals and ambitions for their careers as he does.

It's not about prestige; it's about making your life easier. If, for instance, you want to do IM at Iowa university, you're going to need to fight for that spot as a DO. As an average USMD, not so much.

Also, lets say you want to GI after your residency. If you're at IU, you're going to once again have to fight for that fellowship spot. Moreover, only 30% of DOs who apply for GI match. On the otherhand, if you go to a top 10 program for residency you basically can do any fellowship you want as long as you're flexible on location.

Being a USMD and/or going to a good residency simply makes your life less stressful.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

It's not about prestige; it's about making your life easier. If, for instance, you want to do IM at Iowa university, you're going to need to fight for that spot as a DO. As an average USMD, not so much.

Also, lets say you want to GI after your residency. If you're at IU, you're going to once again have to fight for that fellowship spot. Moreover, only 30% of DOs who apply for GI match. On the otherhand, if you go to a top 10 program for residency you basically can do any fellowship you want as long as you're flexible on location.

Being a USMD and/or going to a good residency simply makes your life less stressful.

But... But... Shim0shim just said OP should challenge herself and not take the easy way out by going MD.

I'm getting conflicting views here. Do I believe the recent grad who scored 250+ on Step 1 or another member who probably hasn't even gone through the match process yet.

After all, doesn't every member's opinion carry the same weight!?




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[235009]

you seem very confused....here you say

This is key, what many pre-meds, and even medical students and residents for that matter, fail to realize is that a prestigious school or residency is not the key to happiness in life. The key is balance, which is something I think is harder at some of the more academically rigorous places; hence why I have no interest in matching to those types of places. I just don't think they are in line with what I'm hoping to get out of residency.

but then in another thread you respond to this....

John the DO physician who trained in a community IM program, trying to pursue Endocrinology.

Stacey the DO physician who trained in a university IM program (doesn't have to be top tier) also trying to pursue Endocrinology.

Would the job offers truly vary between John or Stacey? Or fellowship opportunities for that matter?

with this.....

Job offers, not necessarily. Though I'd bet Stacy would beat John out for the job if they went head to head, all else being equal.

Fellowship, Stacey wins every time; though in Endocrinology John probably gets a spot with relative ease.

My neighbor is an anesthesiologist and an MD. He told me that his group doesn't necessarily care about MD vs DO. They do care about where one went to residency. Apparently if someone went to a residency with a poor rep. they hesitate to bring them on, unless they have some good career history under their belt without any real problems (malpractice history etc.)

They just don't want to bring someone on that might reflect negatively on the group, or put the group in financial risk which I definitely understand.

so the graduate of the university residency program beats out the community program trained person for jobs and fellowship programs yet OP shouldn't take the MD acceptance which will make it way easier to get into a university residency program? How does that make any sense?

I get it, you're a DO student and you want people to think that going DO was a choice and that it isn't a less desirable/more difficult career path but the reality is that if you have the opportunity to take the path that leaves more options open you should absolutely take it!! If later on you decide you don't want to go to a "stuffy" residency program then that's your call and you get to make that decision. As a DO though you don't get the choice since there are dozens of programs that won't even look at your app and dozens more that will only interview the truly spectacular DO or two while interviewing a whole bunch of average US MD students.

Finally, as for work-life balance it may actually be better at a more desirable/academic/prestigious program as some of these community places can be small (i.e. more call, more overnights), malignant, and offer less money or fewer perks.

 

[NontradCA]

Fox and the grapes.

He's trying to imply that I claim not to be concerned about a top residency because a top residency is not attainable as a DO student.

Story time. Could the fox not get the grapes? Poor fox.

 

[SLC]

Being a USMD and/or going to a good residency simply makes your life less stressful.

No doubt, I don't dispute that. I guess I'm just saying that I don't personally think the difference in "stress" is likely to be that big. I may be wrong, but I just don't feel that stressed about it. So the difference in the stress level, from my POV, is probably not worth getting too excited over.

 

[SLC]

...so the graduate of the university residency program beats out the community program trained person for jobs and fellowship programs yet OP shouldn't take the MD acceptance which will make it way easier to get into a university residency program? How does that make any sense?

I guess I'm saying that both those options are realistic as a DO, while you are apparently saying that as an MD those options include training opportunities in places with more cachet attached to their name. But some of us don't really get too excited about cachet and are fine (and perhaps even happier) flying under the radar.

There are University Programs that won't, or are reluctant to match DO's; but there are also plenty that will and those will still take you where you want to go. And in terms of Endocrinology, even many/most community programs will. So if someone is not too hung up on being at a name place, then why should they pick the school/residency they might not be as happy attending?

I happen to believe that being happy in one's surroundings makes performing well easier. I've experienced both, and I'll take being happy/comfortable in my surroundings every-time. If that's a DO school, so be it; in the end I'm still in a position to meet my goals. I (and I suspect many others) am less hung up on the journey, and more concerned with the destination if that makes sense.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Story time. Could the fox not get the grapes? Poor fox.

Arent foxes allergic to grapes...?

 

[NontradCA]

Arent foxes allergic to grapes...?

Yes...yes they are.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I think the OP has made up her mind.

 

[NontradCA]

No doubt, I don't dispute that. I guess I'm just saying that I don't personally think the difference in "stress" is likely to be that big. I may be wrong, but I just don't feel that stressed about it. So the difference in the stress level, from my POV, is probably not worth getting too excited over.

Why should you be? There's no reason to stress over something you can not control. But since OP can still control his/her destiny, why not go to the MD school?

C'mon lettuce beef cereal. You will have more opportunities at an MD school.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

Why should you be? There's no reason to stress over something you can not control. But since OP can still control his/her destiny, why not go to the MD school?

C'mon lettuce beef cereal. You will have more opportunities at an MD school.

I think OP knew the answer before he created this thread. Now the real reason why he created this thread is a mystery.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I think OP knew the answer before he created this thread. Now the real reason why he created this thread is a mystery.

Most people want to feel like their choices matter.

 

[NontradCA]

Most people want to feel like their choices matter.

Wrong. It's because we needed an MD v. DO thread.

 

[shim0shim]

This is key, what many pre-meds, and even medical students and residents for that matter, fail to realize is that a prestigious school or residency is not the key to happiness in life. The key is balance, which is something I think is harder at some of the more academically rigorous places; hence why I have no interest in matching to those types of places. I just don't think they are in line with what I'm hoping to get out of residency.



@MeatTornado is the second iteration of SkinMD, one of the most notorious pseudo-trolls on the pre-med forums. I say pseudo-troll because I really don't think he intends to inflame, he just has a falsely elevated sense of importance and doesn't realize that not everyone shares the same goals and ambitions for their careers as he does.

Thank you!

 

[Buckeye1992]

I feel like it is my fault it escalated and for that I apologize lol

 

[chizledfrmstone]

I think the OP has made up her mind.

Come on, you're a veteran member. Most of the time a thread has 2-3 posts that will suffice in answering the OP.

The rest are landmines of insecurity and other psychological issues. In our own twisted way this is therap...

My daddy never loved me... my daddy never hugged me... 🙁

 

[sylvanthus]

I guess I'm saying that both those options are realistic as a DO, while you are apparently saying that as an MD those options include training opportunities in places with more cachet attached to their name. But some of us don't really get too excited about cachet and are fine (and perhaps even happier) flying under the radar.

There are University Programs that won't, or are reluctant to match DO's; but there are also plenty that will and those will still take you where you want to go. And in terms of Endocrinology, even many/most community programs will. So if someone is not too hung up on being at a name place, then why should they pick the school/residency they might not be as happy attending?

I happen to believe that being happy in one's surroundings makes performing well easier. I've experienced both, and I'll take being happy/comfortable in my surroundings every-time. If that's a DO school, so be it; in the end I'm still in a position to meet my goals. I (and I suspect many others) am less hung up on the journey, and more concerned with the destination if that makes sense.

This makes no sense in the context of the discussion. You seem to imply that somehow going to a MD program = bad surroundings. This is just not the case and you are deluding yourself into thinking that MD = prestigious = bad surroundings. While DO = yay good surroundings. It just does not compute.

MD = more opportunities, period, and a person can easily choose an MD school that fits their personality and gives them the environment they are looking for.

 

[el_duderino]

This makes no sense in the context of the discussion. You seem to imply that somehow going to a MD program = bad surroundings. This is just not the case and you are deluding yourself into thinking that MD = prestigious = bad surroundings. While DO = yay good surroundings. It just does not compute.

MD = more opportunities, period, and a person can easily choose an MD school that fits their personality and gives them the environment they are looking for.

You forgot that those MD programs are stuffy, nose in the air, bastions of academic snobbery. That's not SLC's scene.

 

[SLC]

This makes no sense in the context of the discussion. You seem to imply that somehow going to a MD program = bad surroundings. This is just not the case and you are deluding yourself into thinking that MD = prestigious = bad surroundings. While DO = yay good surroundings. It just does not compute.

MD = more opportunities, period, and a person can easily choose an MD school that fits their personality and gives them the environment they are looking for.

If that's what you read into my post then that's your deal! And if you read again without a bias going in (hard, I know) you'll see that you are way off the mark with your interpretation.

You forgot that those MD programs are stuffy, nose in the air, bastions of academic snobbery. That's not SLC's scene.

Same goes for you. I plan on applying to an MD program FYI; not all of them have the same culture.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Come on, you're a veteran member. Most of the time a thread has 2-3 posts that will suffice in answering the OP.

The rest are landmines of insecurity and other psychological issues. In our own twisted way this is therap...

My daddy never loved me... my daddy never hugged me... 🙁

I legit laughed out loud at this

Rotflol





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[Stagg737]

Welcome back @Jumpstartmy5HT, I see you're coming back with a bang. Anyway, I've said this on here before, and it hasn't steered me wrong yet. The best advice I got about where to attend school/where to even apply came from a Harvard grad that said to ignore tiers and rankings and go to the school that will provide you with the tools you need to become the best physician you can. Where you go to school won't matter nearly as much as your boards and most residencies will take a student from Mediocre U who has near perfect scores than a student from a top 10 school that barely passes. Whether you succeed in med school and your career depends far more on you than it does on the reputation of the school you attend.

That being said, I'm pretty sure he was comparing MD schools and wasn't talking about DO schools. Going to an MD school will make getting into many residencies significantly easier just because of the letters. It sucks, but it's true. Anyone that tells you otherwise is either naive or in denial. However, the implications of the advice is still the same. Go to the school that will make you the best physician. If you felt comfortable at the MD school and think it is going to train you to be a strong physician, you should go there. Especially if you really think getting into your desired residency will be a problem as a DO. On the other hand, if you really didn't like the school/curriculum/can't see yourself happy there, then don't go there. It's all about what your goals are and where you think you'll have the best chance of achieving them.

Here's 2 things I haven't seen mentioned in everyone else's "advice":

1. If you want to go into a competitive specialty, it won't matter if you go MD or DO if you can't score high enough to make you competitive. I knew plenty of kids that wanted to 'keep their options open' that went to prestigious schools for undergrad and got crap MCAT scores (I'm talking under 24) which prevented them from getting into med school. So in the end they wasted a lot of time and money to go to a school that did nothing for them in the long run. Obviously there are those who score lower than others and still get in, but they clearly either have other strengths or are just magically blessed. Chances are you won't be one of the latter and boards hold a lot more weight than almost any other standardized test because of the competitive nature of residencies and the match. Aim high, but be realistic with yourself and your capabilities.

2. Obviously there are more specialists who are MDs than DOs for reasons previously stated. However, people often forget that there are also DO residencies which are not available to MDs and they include many specialties. For example, there are 156 allopathic residency programs for orthopedic surgery, but there are also 39 osteopathic programs for ortho surgery which MDs cannot apply to. So while it will be more difficult (and at times impossible) to place into an allopathic program as a DO, there will also be options unavailable to our MD counterparts. Here's the AAMC's list of residency and fellowship programs if you want to take a look: https://services.aamc.org/eras/erasstats/par/index.cfm

Either way, you're on your way to being a physician, so congratulations and good luck with med school!

 

[Member 0922]

Welcome back @Jumpstartmy5HT, I see you're coming back with a bang. Anyway, I've said this on here before, and it hasn't steered me wrong yet. The best advice I got about where to attend school/where to even apply came from a Harvard grad that said to ignore tiers and rankings and go to the school that will provide you with the tools you need to become the best physician you can. Where you go to school won't matter nearly as much as your boards and most residencies will take a student from Mediocre U who has near perfect scores than a student from a top 10 school that barely passes. Whether you succeed in med school and your career depends far more on you than it does on the reputation of the school you attend.

That being said, I'm pretty sure he was comparing MD schools and wasn't talking about DO schools. Going to an MD school will make getting into many residencies significantly easier just because of the letters. It sucks, but it's true. Anyone that tells you otherwise is either naive or in denial. However, the implications of the advice is still the same. Go to the school that will make you the best physician. If you felt comfortable at the MD school and think it is going to train you to be a strong physician, you should go there. Especially if you really think getting into your desired residency will be a problem as a DO. On the other hand, if you really didn't like the school/curriculum/can't see yourself happy there, then don't go there. It's all about what your goals are and where you think you'll have the best chance of achieving them.

Here's 2 things I haven't seen mentioned in everyone else's "advice":

1. If you want to go into a competitive specialty, it won't matter if you go MD or DO if you can't score high enough to make you competitive. I knew plenty of kids that wanted to 'keep their options open' that went to prestigious schools for undergrad and got crap MCAT scores (I'm talking under 24) which prevented them from getting into med school. So in the end they wasted a lot of time and money to go to a school that did nothing for them in the long run. Obviously there are those who score lower than others and still get in, but they clearly either have other strengths or are just magically blessed. Chances are you won't be one of the latter and boards hold a lot more weight than almost any other standardized test because of the competitive nature of residencies and the match. Aim high, but be realistic with yourself and your capabilities.

2. Obviously there are more specialists who are MDs than DOs for reasons previously stated. However, people often forget that there are also DO residencies which are not available to MDs and they include many specialties. For example, there are 156 allopathic residency programs for orthopedic surgery, but there are also 39 osteopathic programs for ortho surgery which MDs cannot apply to. So while it will be more difficult (and at times impossible) to place into an allopathic program as a DO, there will also be options unavailable to our MD counterparts. Here's the AAMC's list of residency and fellowship programs if you want to take a

But with the new merger, former DO only residencies will be accessible to MDs





Either way, you're on your way to being a physician, so congratulations and good luck with med school![/QUOTE][/url][/QUOTE]

 

[Stagg737]

But with the new merger, former DO only residencies will be accessible to MDs.

Yes, but that won't be happening until 2020, so unless OP screws the pooch and takes 2 extra years to finish med school that won't be an issue.

 

[WesternRedCedar]

2020.... Maybe 2025.

 

[Jumpstartmy5HT]

I thought the merger was happening sooner than that? Didn't the projected timeline start within the next 3 years or so? Or did I completely misread some stuff.


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[Awesome Sauceome]

I thought the merger was happening sooner than that? Didn't the projected timeline start within the next 3 years or so? Or did I completely misread some stuff.


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yea everything I have heard has been 2016-2020





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[Stagg737]

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/Pages/single-gme-accreditation-system-faq.aspx

Here's an faq link that answers some of these questions. Apparently DO programs must register with the ACGME by 2020 and can start as early as July 2015. We will likely have to deal with the change which will affect MD and DO students. Here's the kicker though, if an MD student wants to apply to a DO program they will have to take OMM classes or receive OMM training as many DO residencies require that as a pre-req (and this will apparently not be changing). So if MD schools don't wish to offer osteopathic training to their students, it makes me wonder how those students would meet the pre-reqs to apply to the DO residencies...

I do not know if MD students will be required to take COMLEX to get into DO residencies, but they will have to apply to both the MD and DO match just like DOs who want to enter an allopathic program. Additionally, there will continue to be 2 separate matches for the time being since these agreements are being made between the AOA and ACGME while the NRMP is not currently involved:
Will there be a single Match?
The Match is administered by the National Residency Match Program (NRMP) and not the ACGME. Consequently, this is an issue that can be resolved only when NRMP joins our discussions. However, if all programs are considered ACGME accredited, it is likely there ultimately will be one Match.
So while it is likely that there will eventually be one match, it is also very likely that this won't happen until after the class of 2018 finishes our match.

 

[235009]

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/Pages/single-gme-accreditation-system-faq.aspx

Here's an faq link that answers some of these questions. Apparently DO programs must register with the ACGME by 2020 and can start as early as July 2015. We will likely have to deal with the change which will affect MD and DO students. Here's the kicker though, if an MD student wants to apply to a DO program they will have to take OMM classes or receive OMM training as many DO residencies require that as a pre-req (and this will apparently not be changing). So if MD schools don't wish to offer osteopathic training to their students, it makes me wonder how those students would meet the pre-reqs to apply to the DO residencies...

I do not know if MD students will be required to take COMLEX to get into DO residencies, but they will have to apply to both the MD and DO match just like DOs who want to enter an allopathic program. Additionally, there will continue to be 2 separate matches for the time being since these agreements are being made between the AOA and ACGME while the NRMP is not currently involved:
Will there be a single Match?
The Match is administered by the National Residency Match Program (NRMP) and not the ACGME. Consequently, this is an issue that can be resolved only when NRMP joins our discussions. However, if all programs are considered ACGME accredited, it is likely there ultimately will be one Match.
So while it is likely that there will eventually be one match, it is also very likely that this won't happen until after the class of 2018 finishes our match.

This is going to affect very few US MD students. The only ones who might jump through whatever hoops the AOA comes up with will be marginal applicants applying to very competitive specialties to potentially maximize their chances and those who want to go to a community program in a specific location for non-career/family reasons.

The vast majority of US MD students won't even know this merger happened and if they do hear about it it won't change anything for them.

Those who are going to flock to the DO match in droves and will gladly jump through any ridiculous hoops are Carib IMGs and FMGs. It's only a matter of time until Carib schools start teaching OMM (at least as an elective) if that really is going to be a requirement for the DO match. As I've mentioned before this is going to be bad news for DOs. Fewer DO residencies (as some will inevitably fall short of ACGME standards) with more competition and no change in the ACGME match which is going to have more US MDs every year. This is why I'm shocked that most of the DO students on SDN are happy/excited about this. The only thing DOs got is to not be shut out from ACGME fellowships. Other than that they basically got shafted. No combined match, COMLEX still exists, no requirement to take DOs in ACGME residencies.

 

[shim0shim]

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/Pages/single-gme-accreditation-system-faq.aspx

Here's an faq link that answers some of these questions. Apparently DO programs must register with the ACGME by 2020 and can start as early as July 2015. We will likely have to deal with the change which will affect MD and DO students. Here's the kicker though, if an MD student wants to apply to a DO program they will have to take OMM classes or receive OMM training as many DO residencies require that as a pre-req (and this will apparently not be changing). So if MD schools don't wish to offer osteopathic training to their students, it makes me wonder how those students would meet the pre-reqs to apply to the DO residencies...

I do not know if MD students will be required to take COMLEX to get into DO residencies, but they will have to apply to both the MD and DO match just like DOs who want to enter an allopathic program. Additionally, there will continue to be 2 separate matches for the time being since these agreements are being made between the AOA and ACGME while the NRMP is not currently involved:
Will there be a single Match?
The Match is administered by the National Residency Match Program (NRMP) and not the ACGME. Consequently, this is an issue that can be resolved only when NRMP joins our discussions. However, if all programs are considered ACGME accredited, it is likely there ultimately will be one Match.
So while it is likely that there will eventually be one match, it is also very likely that this won't happen until after the class of 2018 finishes our match.

Thank you for the useful link. The merger will definitely bring a lot of benefits for DO's and in particular, Canadian students who will be studying in the US DO schools. As it currently stands, Canadian DO graduates cannot match in the AOA residencies because they cannot return back to Canada to practice if they do. Canada only recognizes ACGME or ACGME/AOA residencies. Hence, once the merger begins, it will open up more residency options for Canadian students who want to complete residency in the US and return to Canada for practice in the future. 🙂

 

[user3]

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/Pages/single-gme-accreditation-system-faq.aspx

Here's an faq link that answers some of these questions. Apparently DO programs must register with the ACGME by 2020 and can start as early as July 2015. We will likely have to deal with the change which will affect MD and DO students. Here's the kicker though, if an MD student wants to apply to a DO program they will have to take OMM classes or receive OMM training as many DO residencies require that as a pre-req (and this will apparently not be changing). So if MD schools don't wish to offer osteopathic training to their students, it makes me wonder how those students would meet the pre-reqs to apply to the DO residencies...

I do not know if MD students will be required to take COMLEX to get into DO residencies, but they will have to apply to both the MD and DO match just like DOs who want to enter an allopathic program. Additionally, there will continue to be 2 separate matches for the time being since these agreements are being made between the AOA and ACGME while the NRMP is not currently involved:
Will there be a single Match?
The Match is administered by the National Residency Match Program (NRMP) and not the ACGME. Consequently, this is an issue that can be resolved only when NRMP joins our discussions. However, if all programs are considered ACGME accredited, it is likely there ultimately will be one Match.
So while it is likely that there will eventually be one match, it is also very likely that this won't happen until after the class of 2018 finishes our match.

but whatever field we enter, we will all ultimately be training in "ACGME" programs and become ABMS (instead of just AOA) board certified following them. (from what I know)

 

[Stagg737]

Those who are going to flock to the DO match in droves and will gladly jump through any ridiculous hoops are Carib IMGs and FMGs. It's only a matter of time until Carib schools start teaching OMM (at least as an elective) if that really is going to be a requirement for the DO match.

Interesting point, I hadn't thought of this yet, but I would hope that as long as DOs are able to score higher on COMLEX or USMLE tests that programs will still favor graduates from U.S. schools. After all, I've heard one of the purposes of this merger is to give more residency positions to U.S. physicians as opposed to foreign physicians who come here from residency then leave.

As I've mentioned before this is going to be bad news for DOs. Fewer DO residencies (as some will inevitably fall short of ACGME standards) with more competition and no change in the ACGME match which is going to have more US MDs every year. This is why I'm shocked that most of the DO students on SDN are happy/excited about this. The only thing DOs got is to not be shut out from ACGME fellowships. Other than that they basically got shafted. No combined match, COMLEX still exists, no requirement to take DOs in ACGME residencies.

The article inferred that there will eventually be a unified match, since all schools will be accredited by the same group. I wouldn't be surprised if the standards for DO programs completely change down the road, I was just looking at the years that will affect current and soon-to-be students (next 5 years). I wonder if this less DO residencies will really happen though. Programs will have 6 years to get up to the ACGME standards, and I would think most of them will be capable of this. My question is about the programs which are unable to gain accreditation (if there are any) and what will happen to residents/alumnus of those programs. Will they be allowed to apply/transfer to other residencies or are they going to get screwed? My other question is whether or not certain fields will have greater difficulties getting accredited than others. In other words will getting ACGME accreditation be easier or harder for specialty programs vs. primary care or is it all the same.

I'd be interested to hear the opinions of some of the more experienced and knowledgeable posters like @LizzyM or @Goro would have to say about this...