When you're a resident, how will you grade your students?

[myhandsarecold]

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will probably give A to anyone; my only request is that they show some effort, a tiny bit is enough, being gunner gets A+++ (those guys and gals deserve it). i dont see the point in giving a bad grade plus everyone should get at least one A in med school.

 

[gro2001]

I think the fairest grading system (and the one I would want to be graded on) is something similar to this:

If they meet the following minimum requirements, they will get whatever the default score at the institution seems to be (P at some places, HP or H at others. Doesn't really matter since PDs mostly know what an honor from that particular school means):

1) Professional. (punctual, polite, dressed appropriately for that insitution/department, truthful)

2) Safe. This may mean different things at different stages of the game. For a medical student mostly has to do with realizing own limitations and calling for help. More senior students I would expect to be able to recognize certain clinical signs of potential badness and react appropriately.

Not meeting either or both of these should prompt discussions with student during the rotation, with feedback on how he could improve. No one should be surprised with their grade. If they fail to improve after being given a fair warning(s), they would fail. Although I would consider a failing grade for a medical student to also be a negative reflection on the team (and myself if I am the evaluator) since truly hopeless people are rare. We are not in the business of training Olympic athletes. Most willing people can be taught most things.

To bump to honors the student would have to put extra effort of some sort. It would have to be clear what counts as extra effort. Possible options:

1) Powerpoint presentation of reviews of literature to the team/department
2) Outstanding knowledge of topics related to the care of the student's patients.
3) Being so damn good at everything that he actually decreases the resident's work. I realize this is very, very rare.

Or I could go with the donuts formula

 

[meister]

I will:

1) let students go home if we are all just sitting around in the team room

2) spend a few minutes each week explaining my clinical reasoning for doing things a certain way

3) give them a heads-up if they are doing something bad that other residents would use to tank their grade

4) be relaxed as hell and not care if they are not interested in my specialty

5) not take credit for their work during rounds

6) not force them to take call if they don't need to

7) tell obvious gunners to pipe down and be a team-player because everyone hates them

In conclusion I would try to minimize the work because third year sucks enough as it is without catching **** from junior residents.

 

[myhandsarecold]

I will:

1) let students go home if we are all just sitting around in the team room

2) spend a few minutes each week explaining my clinical reasoning for doing things a certain way

3) give them a heads-up if they are doing something bad that other residents would use to tank their grade

4) be relaxed as hell and not care if they are not interested in my specialty

5) not take credit for their work during rounds

6) not force them to take call if they don't need to

7) tell obvious gunners to pipe down and be a team-player because everyone hates them

In conclusion I would try to minimize the work because third year sucks enough as it is without catching **** from junior residents.

👍

 

[smq123]

I will:

1) let students go home if we are all just sitting around in the team room

2) spend a few minutes each week explaining my clinical reasoning for doing things a certain way

3) give them a heads-up if they are doing something bad that other residents would use to tank their grade

4) be relaxed as hell and not care if they are not interested in my specialty

5) not take credit for their work during rounds

6) not force them to take call if they don't need to

7) tell obvious gunners to pipe down and be a team-player because everyone hates them

In conclusion I would try to minimize the work because third year sucks enough as it is without catching **** from junior residents.

I routinely do #1, #2, #4, and #5. We're mostly outpatient, so #6 is not really applicable. I make it a point of telling them, actually, that I don't care what they go into.

The thing that surprised me as a resident is just HOW BAD many med students are. And how much more it gets on your nerves as a resident. It's like a lot of them lack common sense. Don't talk to the patient when I'm doing a heart and lung exam; the patient feels the need to respond and then I can't hear anything! When we're all running around like crazy (and I make no secret of exactly how far behind I am running), don't take that moment to check ESPN. When I say to take a focused history in 10 minutes, don't come sauntering out 15 minutes later with the most tangential history ever. Don't play on your phone in front of the lecturer! When I #2 or #3 listed above, don't roll your f'ing eyes at me. 😡🙄 And when I ask you to please, not make a certain mistake again, then DON'T DO IT AGAIN. I mean....is it really that hard?

I, too, vowed to be lenient and give everyone Honors or HP. But not every med student deserves Honors or HP, as hard as it may be to believe.

 

[McGillGrad]

I am going to make their lives a living hell. I will start them all off with 10 stars on a board and take away stars every time they make a mistake.

They will get a set of things not to do and when they do, they lose stars. They will need all 10 stars to honor and no one will ever honor.

I will probably randomly fail 10% of them to completely remove any hope of controlling their destiny.

 

[KnuxNole]

I would give all my students Honors!

Unless they really really really screw up, then they get a Pass.

 

[McGillGrad]

I would give all my students Honors!

Unless they really really really screw up, then they get a Pass.

Yeah, mediocrity is what we need in medicine! Everyone passes and everyone honors. Everyone should become dermatologists and everyone gets an automatic 260 on the step!

 

[KnuxNole]

Yeah, mediocrity is what we need in medicine! Everyone passes and everyone honors. Everyone should become dermatologists and everyone gets an automatic 260 on the step!

And don't forget everyone needs to make at least a minimum of 500K/year.

 

[Jolie South]

My biggest criterion is going to be social appropriateness. If you throw other students under the bus, act awkward or entitled, disappear for hours and don't make your best effort to actually help, you're not going to do well.

I can't stand this type of student now and I'm sure it'll only get worse when I'm a resident.

 

[McGillGrad]

And don't forget everyone needs to make at least a minimum of 500K/year.

Yeah, minimum! We are THROWING AWAY our 20s, to selflessly help people. While most people luxuriously relax in office cubicles makes 25-40k per year, working paycheck to paycheck, we have to suffer the indignity of generous student loans and summer vacations and sitting in a classroom playing with a laptop.

Sometimes, I wonder if God even exists because I am so depressed thinking about my crappy life making less than $1,000,000 a year.

 

[2012mdc]

Yeah, minimum! We are THROWING AWAY our 20s, to selflessly help people. While most people luxuriously relax in office cubicles makes 25-40k per year, working paycheck to paycheck, we have to suffer the indignity of generous student loans and summer vacations and sitting in a classroom playing with a laptop.

Sometimes, I wonder if God even exists because I am so depressed thinking about my crappy life making less than $1,000,000 a year.

Ha, it's funny people say that med school is throwing away their youth. But it's all relative. You make the comparison to the average American but I can make the comparison to my average college friend. They are making 100+ and own their house at my age. One friend who does computer stuff was making close to 100K right out of college. Another started off at 160K after law school. I don't want their jobs but sometimes I wish I had their freedom. M3 is especially frustrating when you miss out on big trips - my undergrad, Stanford, was just having its best football season ever and I couldn't make the game. Missing trips to Vegas, Cancun, Hawaii etc. I don't regret my decision but it is what is

 

[Perrotfish]

In a four week rotation I plan to bias grading heavily towards their performance in their last week: their ability to put together a competent assessment and plan and how well they've assimilated the knowledge that I've taught/assigned (I plan to teach heavily in the beginning and pimp heavily later on on topics I've covered). I don't particularly care about attitude, you can have a terrible attitude if it doesn't get in the way of you getting the work done and enthusiasm doesn't make up for incompetence. I will grade down students that throw their colleagues under the bus, but that's about it. No brownie points for constantly offering to 'help', we both know perfectly well that med students are about as useful as tits on a bull and honestly I'd rather you study.

In a two or one week rotation I'm honoring every single person in protest because, to me, uber short rotations make grading an ***** kissing contenst and I want no part in it.

 

[VoiceofReason]

M3 is a sham and if im ever actually in the position to supervise medical students i will teach them principles of medicine all day and not make them do an ounce of floor work.

 

[gro2001]

M3 is a sham and if im ever actually in the position to supervise medical students i will teach them principles of medicine all day and not make them do an ounce of floor work.

There are school overseas that do that. It sucks.

 

[jackets5]

As long as the student shows up on time, makes an effort to learn and is not annoying they will get a good eval. Will not ever make a student stay for the sake of staying. The rotation im on right now makes us stay till 4 everyday but my residents always let me go to any lecture in any department during the day no matter how much work we have or go read if they are just putting in orders writing notes etc.

The way i would give a bad eval are if they student is consistently late (i hate people being late) and if they are annoying. We have a student on rotation with us now who is the epitome of this. Residents tell her to go home, she stays and hangs around while they are dictating, doing notes etc. looking over their shoulder the whole time. Tries to write notes on every patient and keeps asking residents to look over each one during the day. Even though as 3rd years we are only allowed to carry 2 patients at a time. She is nice enough, fairly intelligent but is so annoying and you tell the residents cant stand it.

To sum it up. As long as my student dosent annoy me when im a resident and dosent expect me to teach them something at every second of the day they will do fine. If we have time Ill sit down for an afternoon, an hour with a student and go over whatever they want. But if we are slammed with patients, realize asking me to teach or explain a bunch of stuff with them is probably not going to happen that day.

 

[AgentRaiden]

I am going to make their lives a living hell. I will start them all off with 10 stars on a board and take away stars every time they make a mistake.

They will get a set of things not to do and when they do, they lose stars. They will need all 10 stars to honor and no one will ever honor.

I will probably randomly fail 10% of them to completely remove any hope of controlling their destiny.

👍 We are seething ,aren't we? I am.

 

[desijigga]

I routinely do #1, #2, #4, and #5. We're mostly outpatient, so #6 is not really applicable. I make it a point of telling them, actually, that I don't care what they go into.

The thing that surprised me as a resident is just HOW BAD many med students are. And how much more it gets on your nerves as a resident. It's like a lot of them lack common sense. Don't talk to the patient when I'm doing a heart and lung exam; the patient feels the need to respond and then I can't hear anything! When we're all running around like crazy (and I make no secret of exactly how far behind I am running), don't take that moment to check ESPN. When I say to take a focused history in 10 minutes, don't come sauntering out 15 minutes later with the most tangential history ever. Don't play on your phone in front of the lecturer! When I #2 or #3 listed above, don't roll your f'ing eyes at me. 😡🙄 And when I ask you to please, not make a certain mistake again, then DON'T DO IT AGAIN. I mean....is it really that hard?

I, too, vowed to be lenient and give everyone Honors or HP. But not every med student deserves Honors or HP, as hard as it may be to believe.

You actually sound like a resident that gives a crap about students. I agree with most of your comments 'cept one, checking ESPN atleast once everyday is a must. Please let that one slide 😀

When I am a resident I think I will just give everyone 4s or 5s, I understand most of the mistakes WE medical students make are due to us being nervous, not knowing we are making them, and having no idea of the hospital dynamics. UNLESS you are annoying to the point I want to poke your eyes out, your medical knowledge is at the level of a 5 year old, you are rude to patients, you smell like a hobo on a consistent basis, you consistently ignore my directions, don't listen to me when I am trying to help you correct your mistakes (I am guilty of this, got yelled at in surgery numerous times 🙄).

I actually will take the time to teach the students, but if I find out you don't want to learn, then screw it I will not waste mines or your precious time.

 

[da8s0859q]

You make the comparison to the average American but I can make the comparison to my average college friend. They are making 100+ and own their house at my age. One friend who does computer stuff was making close to 100K right out of college. Another started off at 160K after law school.

I'm kind of thinking that your college friends might be exceptions to the rule. I'd think that most people going to work in IT or some law firm aren't going to be making that kind of cash right off the bat, and/or would have much more stressful jobs than it sounds like. No?

 

[BigRedBeta]

Y'all that are planning on High passes for merely showing up are going to create more work for yourselves. It's one of the main reasons why, unless you've really demonstrated you've earned it, students are getting passes - giving anything else means more time spent on your eval by your resident.

All the evaluation forms I've seen require comments for anything other than a pass. If it's a fail, there needs to be specific examples cited, same thing for honors. A high pass can get by with more generic comments, but you still have to write something.

The bottom line, you're not doing anyone any favors if you inflate their grade. There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with a pass, and >50% of students should be getting that grade.

What is important, more so than the grade you actually give is that you take the time to explain to them your expectations at the beginning of a rotation. That's what will really make their experience better.

 

[2012mdc]

Y'all that are planning on High passes for merely showing up are going to create more work for yourselves. It's one of the main reasons why, unless you've really demonstrated you've earned it, students are getting passes - giving anything else means more time spent on your eval by your resident.

All the evaluation forms I've seen require comments for anything other than a pass. If it's a fail, there needs to be specific examples cited, same thing for honors. A high pass can get by with more generic comments, but you still have to write something.

The bottom line, you're not doing anyone any favors if you inflate their grade. There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with a pass, and >50% of students should be getting that grade.

What is important, more so than the grade you actually give is that you take the time to explain to them your expectations at the beginning of a rotation. That's what will really make their experience better.

At my school they specifically told us a Pass (C) is a terrible grade to have MS3 and will hurt you if apply to competitive places.

Grade inflation helps with the match - and if it's not school-wide then residencies wouldn't know about it. Not saying it's right but it does help.

 

[lockjaw]

At my school they specifically told us a Pass (C) is a terrible grade to have MS3 and will hurt you if apply to competitive places.

Grade inflation helps with the match - and if it's not school-wide then residencies wouldn't know about it. Not saying it's right but it does help.

I guess the meaning of a "pass" depends on the school - we have Honors (limited to 10-15% of the students on any given rotation, so there is no such thing as "grade inflation" for us) and the rest just get Pass, except for the the occasional Fail, of course. So for us, pass is the expected grade, and a few go above and beyond and manage to honor - high pass is an entirely unfamiliar entity to me. It'll be interesting if I'm a resident at a school that has a different grading system, because I'm sure the grading system that a given resident had while in school must play a role in how tough/lenient they are with grading their students. I doubt I'll be handing out honors left and right since they were so scarce at my school, but I'm not sure how I'd factor in a "high pass" grade.

I have to say, hearing about high pass, grade inflation, and how some schools equate a pass to a letter grade of C helps put all of those "what are my chances" residency posts in perspective. I've always been so confused by everyone who is freaking about about "only" getting passes during 3rd year when they've been told the key to a great residency is to "honor all of third year", since at my school it's expected that you'll get mostly passes, with the few superstar students managing to get a couple of honors if they're lucky.

 

[Substance]

I'm not going to be so pretentious as to deep six a medical student's career aspirations because of my unappealing comments. Residents are already overworked and emotional, and for them to be throwing around harsh evaluations is an unjust recipe for disaster. Plus, residents have hardly any teaching and evaluation experience, so who would I be to blather my hifalutin praise, undying scorn, or mild apathy?

I"ll be more discerning when I'm an attending. Then I can at least say I've had the experience of working with a lot of different types of students with different abilities, and be able to gauge accordingly.

 

[2012mdc]

I guess the meaning of a "pass" depends on the school - we have Honors (limited to 10-15% of the students on any given rotation, so there is no such thing as "grade inflation" for us) and the rest just get Pass, except for the the occasional Fail, of course. So for us, pass is the expected grade, and a few go above and beyond and manage to honor - high pass is an entirely unfamiliar entity to me. It'll be interesting if I'm a resident at a school that has a different grading system, because I'm sure the grading system that a given resident had while in school must play a role in how tough/lenient they are with grading their students. I doubt I'll be handing out honors left and right since they were so scarce at my school, but I'm not sure how I'd factor in a "high pass" grade.

I have to say, hearing about high pass, grade inflation, and how some schools equate a pass to a letter grade of C helps put all of those "what are my chances" residency posts in perspective. I've always been so confused by everyone who is freaking about about "only" getting passes during 3rd year when they've been told the key to a great residency is to "honor all of third year", since at my school it's expected that you'll get mostly passes, with the few superstar students managing to get a couple of honors if they're lucky.

Yeah the system matters a lot. Didn't realize they could be so different.

In our system you have to be competent and very knowledgeable (hard line shelf cut-offs) to get an A (honors), just competent to get a B(high pass), and highly incompetent to get a C (pass). You have to consistently be late/not show up (one time someone missed a week of wards w/ no excuse) or continually lie to fail.

I like the system as it doesn't reward ass-kissing too much and prevents a mean/unreasonable attending from killing your grade. The shelf does determine a lot but we have to take tests the rest of our careers so they should be important

 

[iceman77_7]

I'm not going to be so pretentious as to deep six a medical student's career aspirations because of my unappealing comments. Residents are already overworked and emotional, and for them to be throwing around harsh evaluations is an unjust recipe for disaster. Plus, residents have hardly any teaching and evaluation experience, so who would I be to blather my hifalutin praise, undying scorn, or mild apathy?

I"ll be more discerning when I'm an attending. Then I can at least say I've had the experience of working with a lot of different types of students with different abilities, and be able to gauge accordingly.

From what I've noticed at my school, resident feedback is rarely taken into account for the final evaluation unless of course there's something overwhelmingly negative or positive. Pretty much only the attendings' evals matter. I think there's less bias that way.

 

[2012mdc]

I'm kind of thinking that your college friends might be exceptions to the rule. I'd think that most people going to work in IT or some law firm aren't going to be making that kind of cash right off the bat, and/or would have much more stressful jobs than it sounds like. No?

I don't think they are necessarily exceptions. The average med student is a pretty strong undergrad student. Strong undergrad students typically go into law, business, and engineering. Those on par with the average pre-med student probably end up at the top law schools.

No doubt they work hard for that money and I don't envy them b/c I find law boring and tedious but in comparison they are making money faster and accumulating less debt. The "real world" isn't perfect but it does compare favorably to med school at times

 

[MedLover25]

Depends on if it's their first rotation....5th....last...etc.

If it's your 1st, you come in and text, etc - you get a free warning - after that if it continues, I would have no problem giving poor marks. (cell phone use, texting, drinking coffee/eating on rounds - highly unacceptable; I never used my phone except to use epocrates or to google relevant patient information)

Making an effort/showing compassion gets a 95%+ with me. Too many times have I been around students that know A LOT - but are seemingly incapable of showing empathy for another human being. I'm sorry, but that is NOT difficult.

I also don't see students as "in the way." I'm a 4th yr, and I have no problem helping out 3rd year students. Maybe it's "hey, this is how you write a note/give a presentation/read up on something/etc" but I remember what it was like not knowing what to expect in clinicals and the amazing residents I had who explained things to me with being the "ohhhh didn't you just get out of school? you should know EVERYTHING"

So in short:
1) Text/coffee/eating on rounds - FAIL - which may become a low pass if you're compassionate, and at least work for your patient

2) Show you care/come early/stay late/etc - 95%+

You get the point I think

 

[drmedstudent]

I am not gonna be that A-hole resident whose gonna make med students lives miserable.....

Fail = if you do something really stupid, or never show up
Pass = if you dont really care much, always coming in late, not dressed properly, or are overly kiss-ass (giving me gifts, sucking up etc)
High Pass = if u do what ur supposed to, come on time, dress properly, show that ur interested in learning but even tho u are not necessarily extremely knowledgeable
Honors = if ur really passionate about the subject, always answering pimping questions, great with patients

 

[Perrotfish]

1) Text/coffee/eating on rounds - FAIL - which may become a low pass if you're compassionate, and at least work for your patient

Just an FYI, you might want to communicate this rule directly at the start of each rotation. 'Don't eat or drink anything during rounds', particularly during chart rounds in a conferece room, isn't exactly a common sense unspoken rule. I've had multiple rotations where the residents and students brought breakfast to chart rounds, and plent of students and residents that have carried sodas and coffee around during walking rounds. If you have different rules that's fine but if you drop someone's grade because they brought a bagel to the conference room without mentioning your policy before hand that's not good.

 

[Johnny_D]

I am going to make their lives a living hell. I will start them all off with 10 stars on a board and take away stars every time they make a mistake.

They will get a set of things not to do and when they do, they lose stars. They will need all 10 stars to honor and no one will ever honor.

I will probably randomly fail 10% of them to completely remove any hope of controlling their destiny.

This is funny. Nothing like ratcheting up the stress!

 

[MilkmanAl]

Just an FYI, you might want to communicate this rule directly at the start of each rotation. 'Don't eat or drink anything during rounds', particularly during chart rounds in a conferece room, isn't exactly a common sense unspoken rule. I've had multiple rotations where the residents and students brought breakfast to chart rounds, and plent of students and residents that have carried sodas and coffee around during walking rounds. If you have different rules that's fine but if you drop someone's grade because they brought a bagel to the conference room without mentioning your policy before hand that's not good.

Indeed. Why no food or drinks on rounds? I have yet to be on a service that prohibited them, and I don't see the rationale for forcing people to forgo their coffee or what might be their only calorie intake until dinner. Logic of your pet peeves aside, you definitely need to make your expectations clear at the start of the rotation.

 

[Jolie South]

Indeed. Why no food or drinks on rounds? I have yet to be on a service that prohibited them, and I don't see the rationale for forcing people to forgo their coffee or what might be their only calorie intake until dinner. Logic of your pet peeves aside, you definitely need to make your expectations clear at the start of the rotation.

I agree. That's just ridiculous.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Yep, with ya there. Prepare to be hated by your students, especially if you're in a time-consuming field like medicine or surgery.

 

[Jolie South]

Yep, with ya there. Prepare to be hated by your students, especially if you're in a time-consuming field like medicine or surgery.

Medicine doesn't need to be time consuming. I always felt like we could have accomplished what we needed to by noon. That was the big "eff you" that made me hate it so much.

 

[DrBowtie]

From what I've noticed at my school, resident feedback is rarely taken into account for the final evaluation unless of course there's something overwhelmingly negative or positive. Pretty much only the attendings' evals matter. I think there's less bias that way.

That'd be nice if it was that way here. My intern on her second month here in the US, on her first on service rotation knocked me out of honors since her average eval counted exactly the same as my attending that gave me a 95%

 

[mq123]

3rd year grading randomness involves being subjected to evaluators that are both too tough and too lenient. so since it's mostly b/s anyway, and the students' careers are at stake, i'm erring on the side of too lenient. everybody gets honors by default, unless they *really* don't care/show up. no penalty for introverted/shy personality.

I agree with the randomness/subjectiveness of it all, having received very unfair grades myself, but this is a little too lenient for me. I would more likely give them a default high pass, and then upgrade or downgrade from there. I've seen how some med students (who really don't care about a particular rotation) completly goof off and not make ANY effort. I'd rather not give them a high pass...

AND, I intend to do a lot of teaching, too. I love when residents take a few minutes here and there to teach or share personal patient experiences.

AND I think I'll buy them coffee, too. Sometimes. There's nothing worse then walking up to the cafeteria with your residents and discovering you have no cash on you...

 

[confuse]

I think I will try to be a nice resident. Everyone gets honors unless someone gets on my nerve. The one that really amazes me will get lots of nice comments; others will get generic stuff. I'll let the shelf exams filter out the honors/high pass/pass. I have been interested in teaching all of my life so I think my teaching will be above average. The only thing that I need to keep in check is not to lose my patience. I feel like I'm becoming more and more inpatient the further I get into this field. This is not good!!! And I will keeping an eye on it.

 

[premed2007]

I think from reading all of these posts the conclusion is that the grading system used by residents is and forever will be dependent on the resident. As a medical student the goal should be to try your best and give 110% and let the chips fall where they may because thats all one can really do.

 

[Jolie South]

I think from reading all of these posts the conclusion is that the grading system used by residents is and forever will be dependent on the resident. As a medical student the goal should be to try your best and give 110% and let the chips fall where they may because thats all one can really do.

For real. This is kinda what my approach has been on clerkships. Then, own the shelf. It's been a successful strategy thus far.

 

[premed2007]

For real. This is kinda what my approach has been on clerkships. Then, own the shelf. It's been a successful strategy thus far.

yeah agreed. If you show up and try your best at worst you wont fail (and even then youll probably do really well) despite personality differences/clashes. I really doubt no matter how a resident views the grading system that anyone is out to fail a student unless something really radical or bad happens.

 

[Robbins]

There are two kinds of people in medicine. People who judge competency by someone's ability to memorize answers to pimp questions, and people who judge competency by evaluating someone's ability to think logically and make good clinical judgements. I fall into the second category, because I believe that while you can always look stuff up, reckless and stupid are beyond repair.

In fact, my questions to medical students are always open ended questions designed to test their judgement. For this reason, I never use the classic "pimp questions" that many attendings or residents seem to prefer.

 

[McGillGrad]

The problem with your reasoning is that you cannot be the second kind of person without first knowing the information cold.

Your ability to 'think logically' falls flat if you do know have a mastery of the facts of medicine.

There are two kinds of people in medicine. People who judge competency by someone's ability to memorize answers to pimp questions, and people who judge competency by evaluating someone's ability to think logically and make good clinical judgements. I fall into the second category, because I believe that while you can always look stuff up, reckless and stupid are beyond repair.

In fact, my questions to medical students are always open ended questions designed to test their judgement. For this reason, I never use the classic "pimp questions" that many attendings or residents seem to prefer.

 

[Noeljan]

The problem with your reasoning is that you cannot be the second kind of person without first knowing the information cold.

Your ability to 'think logically' falls flat if you do know have a mastery of the facts of medicine.

agreed!

 

[Noeljan]

and I thought the post about failing for coffee, etc was ridiculous (no offense). I will probably get coffee with my students🙂 I would give someone a lower score if...they never show up without reason....I see myself as a fairly easy grader otherwise.
One thing that will fail you, don't EVER talk poorly about your classmates in front of me. I think it is unprofessional to try and sway a residents opinion about your peer. Often times in life it often these people that are the bad apples (and not the ones they are talking so poorly about).

Other than that, show up, work hard (yes you can go study for shelf exams if we are not doing anything!!!) and don't have an attitude. I love if people have a great knowledge base, but if you don't it is something we can work on🙂

 

[2012mdc]

The problem with your reasoning is that you cannot be the second kind of person without first knowing the information cold.

Your ability to 'think logically' falls flat if you do know have a mastery of the facts of medicine.

True but there are some attendings that like to pimp on esoteric and random facts and numbers that have nothing to do with understanding medicine. Answering that about 30% of so-so patients have this reaction to a med when it's really 27.97585% doesn't say much about your knowledge

 

[McGillGrad]

True but there are some attendings that like to pimp on esoteric and random facts and numbers that have nothing to do with understanding medicine. Answering that about 30% of so-so patients have this reaction to a med when it's really 27.97585% doesn't say much about your knowledge

Nit-picky pimping questions are meant to stump you. They are meant to make you feel uncomfortable with your knowledge and encourage you to continue reading every day after 12 hours in the hospital.

In the same vein, if you can easily find the info in a review text and you couldn't answer the questions, then you are woefully under-prepared. There is a reason why residents still go to teaching and sit for exams. There is a reason why board certified doctors still read journals and go to conferences.

Plus, if you know your physiology cold, then you can use your logical reasoning to come to a plausible conclusion. But physiology is not going to tell you what APGAR stands for whilst rotating through OBGYN.

 

[2012mdc]

Nit-picky pimping questions are meant to stump you. They are meant to make you feel uncomfortable with your knowledge and encourage you to continue reading every day after 12 hours in the hospital.

In the same vein, if you can easily find the info in a review text and you couldn't answer the questions, then you are woefully under-prepared. There is a reason why residents still go to teaching and sit for exams. There is a reason why board certified doctors still read journals and go to conferences.

Plus, if you know your physiology cold, then you can use your logical reasoning to come to a plausible conclusion. But physiology is not going to tell you what APGAR stands for whilst rotating through OBGYN.

I agree but there are attendings who use nit-picky questions to lower your grade. There are attendings who ONLY focus on random facts and don't ask about understanding. That's where the problem is

 

[McGillGrad]

I agree but there are attendings who use nit-picky questions to lower your grade. There are attendings who ONLY focus on random facts and don't ask about understanding. That's where the problem is

I usually just pounce on those attendings like a spidermonkey.

 

[coldweatherblue]

I'm probably going to be the resident who lets everyone go home after the work is done, but occasionally I will make everyone do weekly presentations on their patient's pathologies. because I actually did learn when my residents made me do this.. even tho i resented them greatly. 🙂 haha..

grading will be strictly subjective, of course, based on my overall abstract impression of the student's performance and my daily fluctuating mood; keeping in tradition..

 

[Perrotfish]

I'm probably going to be the resident who lets everyone go home after the work is done, but occasionally I will make everyone do weekly presentations on their patient's pathologies. because I actually did learn when my residents made me do this.. even tho i resented them greatly. 🙂 haha..

grading will be strictly subjective, of course, based on my overall abstract impression of the student's performance and my daily fluctuating mood; keeping in tradition..

I don't mind doing presentations and I might make my students do them, but I'm definitely a fan of making students do their presentations on common pathologies rather than obscure but interesting conditions that happen to pop up on the floor. I don't like the fact that when a doctor wants me to do a presentation it's almost invariably on something so rare I probably won't see it again for the rest of my career. If I use presantations as a learning tool I'm going to use them to make students hammer on common pathologies that I think they're weak in.