Which is the most difficult: MS2 (step P/F), MS3, or MS4?

[odyssey2]

How is spending grueling hours in Sub Is and aways, and stressing every second over interviews sent in awkward times a vacation?

Post-match MS4 is the best imo

I did Step 2 during a research year, didn’t do aways (rads doesn’t need them) and did a chill sub I post-match so my M4 was chiller than most. Also had virtual interviews which made the season less stressful.

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[TelemarketingEnigma]

How is spending grueling hours in Sub Is and aways, and stressing every second over interviews sent in awkward times a vacation?

Post-match MS4 is the best imo

I'm not doing any aways so I can't speak to that, but i really really enjoyed my IM sub I. It's hard work for sure, but I got a lot more autonomy and respect, and it was in a field i was very interested in. And you don't have to come home and study for shelves or do busy work, so you get to focus on the patient care and then use your limited free time actually for you. Now that I'm done with my Sub I and Step 2 I'm basically just doing electives in things i'm interested in so that's a lot of fun. TBD how that interview anxiety is gonna feel.

Post match MS4 for me will be literally vacation since I'll be done with rotations by that point haha

 

[Medscigirl]

Personally I found 2nd year to be more difficult. Getting into clinical rotations was definitely a nice reprieve from the classroom and I was lucky enough to not have to work around other students and residents when it came to learning experiences. It was often just me and the physician. That’s the beauty of rural locations. I learned a great deal and it wasn’t under the pressure of having to learn a million other subjects simultaneously. I could focus on that rotation and the study materials for that specific rotation which also helped me prep for level 2

 

[Doc Doc Doc Goose]

MS-3 is the hardest year for sure. But also more preferred than MS-2 and MS-1. It still sucks though: you can’t pee or eat when you want. Every resident and attending is different. Rotating is emotionally, physically, and mentally draining as you’re trying to be compassionate and emphathetic with patients, figure out what the heck you’re supposed to even do, learn how to be a resident, impress attendings, and then study a few hours on top of it. Worst year by far; but paradoxically, must preferred (not including 4th year).

Sitting and studying all day everyday is just draining.

 

[aurevoir0711]

With step 1 becoming P/F, M3 >>>>> M2

 

[odyssey2]

With step 1 becoming P/F, M3 >>>>> M2

Why would step 1 becoming P/F make M2 worse?

 

[introp445]

Current MS3 here (half way through). I’m biased because our step one score counted, but I’d say MS2 is easily the worst. You’re just studying all the time for a single exam. Third year is great because you are finally getting to be a part of why you went to medical school in the first place. It’s not easy as there is lots of time commitment due to needing to be on site during the day and study at night. Also a lot of people struggle with how students are graded, but it depends on your school. Without step, I think MS3 is certainly harder but I also feel that looking back on the first 2 years, I’m so much happier as a third year.

 

[aurevoir0711]

Why would step 1 becoming P/F make M2 worse?

OP asked which one is the most difficult, so I meant to say M3 would be the most difficult.

 

[efle]

Surprised to see so many people hating the studying years - usually folks who ace colleges classes and choose medicine like it! Or at least tolerate it well

 

[theendisnigh]

Im currently a PGY-2, but yes, i totally agree. Online learning for extroverts must be brutal.

For me, i think it was all mental health driven. I didnt have friends in med school, unfortunately, so the whole experience was very isolating.

I'm in that boat too. Things get better in residency?

 

[ciestar]

I'm in that boat too. Things get better in residency?

They definitely did for me!!

 

[efle]

I'm in that boat too. Things get better in residency?

Hard to feel lonely while carrying a bunch of daily patients and working in a crowded room, and being on the phone all the time

 

[aurevoir0711]

Pleasantly surprised to see that MS3 is considered the toughest year by the majority. I’ve always strongly felt this way, but most that I’ve talked to in person seem to think MS1 and MS2 were worse.

Most people considered MS2 to be the worst when their entire career depended on the Step 1 score. With Step 1 going pass/fail next January, there is no doubt that MS2 would be much lighter. Also, this means that Step 2 becomes the most important exam of medical school, especially since students will have only one shot at it. I wouldn't be surprised if Step 2 average score starts climbing up after the change next year.

 

[Kerosene Hat]

Disclaimer: USMLE was not P/F when I was an MS2. But...even if it had been in the P/F era, the weekly tests would still fill me with dread. Weekly tests where it felt like your whole future hinged on regurgitating minutiae off of slides. I don't miss that at all.

MS3...well, we had some hard rotations, but the easier ones more than made up for them. Plus, shelf exams at least feel pertinent to what you're doing.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Disclaimer: USMLE was not P/F when I was an MS2. But...even if it had been in the P/F era, the weekly tests would still fill me with dread. Weekly tests where it felt like your whole future hinged on regurgitating minutiae off of slides. I don't miss that at all.

MS3...well, we had some hard rotations, but the easier ones more than made up for them. Plus, shelf exams at least feel pertinent to what you're doing.

You had weekly tests during preclerkship? Yikes.

 

[Konigstiger]

Disclaimer: USMLE was not P/F when I was an MS2. But...even if it had been in the P/F era, the weekly tests would still fill me with dread. Weekly tests where it felt like your whole future hinged on regurgitating minutiae off of slides. I don't miss that at all.

I never had any sort of test anxiety before medical school... Now it feels like every week could be the week that ends my career for good. The constant pressure of exams with nonsensical, low-yield, subjectively-written questions is just too draining.

Maybe it's because I haven't experienced the terrors of M3 yet, but I can't wait for this year and boards to be over.

 

[deleted1079620]

You had weekly tests during preclerkship? Yikes.

We do right now. Weekly exams for the first nine weeks, then switching to every two weeks. First couple of blocks a are rough.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

We do right now. Weekly exams for the first nine weeks, then switching to every two weeks. First couple of blocks a are rough.

Damn. That sounds super ****ty.

 

[efle]

I'll never understand why US med schools with rigorous admissions standards feel the need to treat their adult learners like grade school children. Thank god the only scores that matter are NBMEs.

 

[aurevoir0711]

We do right now. Weekly exams for the first nine weeks, then switching to every two weeks. First couple of blocks a are rough.

At my school, we had weekly quizzes for each module followed by a final exam in the last week. Each quiz consisted of all lectures + self-learning materials for the week, so it was more like a test lol. I am so glad MS2 is over.

 

[M&L]

I’ve never understood this universal hatred for MS3. I had a really good experience across the board as did many of my colleagues.

Having been on the other side now, I would argue that many poor MS3 experiences are actually the fault of the student. I look on my own services and there are some students that I’ve basically ignored and others I’ve scrubbed into every case, let them do as much as possible, taken aside and taught how to scope and do ear work under the microscope. I’ve even taken students to the bone tab to drill mastoids and put in cochlear implants.

Most students do the bare minimum and blend into the paint and typically disappear around lunch. At best they ask me every morning after being totally unprepared for rounds: “what cases should I go to today?” These students are probably not going to have a good experience because they’re putting in zero effort.

Then there are those who show up early, help the juniors get ready for rounds. They look ahead to the OR board for the week and ask me questions on Monday about a case scheduled for Thursday. They help out in clinic and ask to take call and genuinely seem interested in the field. These are the students I invest in and they probably come away saying they had a wonderful experience.

Look, there are definitely some crap rotations and terrible preceptors out there and no amount of effort is going to make those great experiences. But if you find your entire year is full of bad rotations, maybe it’s worth examining whether there’s some other common denominator at play.

So just maybe to give you an example of myself, - i am well prepared, preround well, always on top of my patients cases. I DO that, i am good, i think, and i got good feedback. But i am an introvert, so i hate majority of specialties, because of how many people i have to interact with, and i am going to choose between more "introverted" specialties for my career. I CAN do these rotations, and do them well. No problem. But am i happy? no.

 

[efle]

So just maybe to give you an example of myself, - i am well prepared, preround well, always on top of my patients cases. I DO that, i am good, i think, and i got good feedback. But i am an introvert, so i hate majority of specialties, because of how many people i have to interact with, and i am going to choose between more "introverted" specialties for my career. I CAN do these rotations, and do them well. No problem. But am i happy? no.

Well prepared and knowledgable. Didnt request to take extra call or bring up cases from next week, 3/5