Which med schools like students who’ve reinvented themselves but have lower GPA due to OLD grades?

[PreMedMissteps]

Question in the premed MD section:
Helping a friend who has some OLD bad grades. However the friend went back to school and now has a 3.9 in the last 75 credits. Friend has about 160 undergrad credits total. However, those old grades pull the cum and science GPA’s below a 3.0.

Since the student has high grades in the premed prereqs and in the last 75 credits, which schools (MD or DO) will NOT automatically screen this student out?

Do any of the “sub 3.0 filters“ have any sort of forgiveness/allowance that if the student has a strong upward trend in the last 60-70 credits then they can make it past filter?

@Goro I recall you mentioning med schools that like students who’ve reinvented themselves. Which ones are those? Thanks.

(please don’t recommend a postbacc if there are Med schools that will consider this student (MD or DO))

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[LunaOri]

We need more information—many schools reward reinvention (defined as a nontrad who goes back to school and does well)—but other factors such as MCAT score and experiences are particularly important.

 

[Goro]

Question in the premed MD section:
Helping a friend who has some OLD bad grades. However the friend went back to school and now has a 3.9 in the last 75 credits. Friend has about 160 undergrad credits total. However, those old grades pull the cum and science GPA’s below a 3.0.

Since the student has high grades in the premed prereqs and in the last 75 credits, which schools (MD or DO) will NOT automatically screen this student out?

Do any of the “sub 3.0 filters“ have any sort of forgiveness/allowance that if the student has a strong upward trend in the last 60-70 credits then they can make it past filter?

@Goro I recall you mentioning med schools that like students who’ve reinvented themselves. Which ones are those? Thanks.

(please don’t recommend a postbacc if there are Med schools that will consider this student (MD or DO))

Student doesn't need a post-bac

My reinvention list will vary greatly depending upon MCAT score.

DO schools have to be on the list too.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Student doesn't need a post-bac

My reinvention list will vary greatly depending upon MCAT score.

DO schools have to be on the list too.

Thank you.
MCAT = 506

 

[PreMedMissteps]

We need more information—many schools reward reinvention (defined as a nontrad who goes back to school and does well)—but other factors such as MCAT score and experiences are particularly important.

Yes, this is definitely a nontrad. Lots of clinical hands-on patient care experience.
MCAT = 506

 

[Goro]

Thank you.
MCAT = 506

Best to stick with DO schools and one's own state school. The rest of these are maybes:
Albany
EVMS
GWU
MCW
Rosy Franklin
Rush
Tulane
U VM
Wake Forest
Wayne State

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Best to stick with DO schools and one's own state school. The rest of these are maybes:
Albany
EVMS
GWU
MCW
Rosy Franklin
Rush
Tulane
U VM
Wake Forest
Wayne State

Dumb question….so are you saying that the DO schools don’t have strict 3.0 filters?

 

[Goro]

Dumb question….so are you saying that the DO schools don’t have strict 3.0 filters?

Some do, some don't

 

[purplepuppy391]

Student doesn't need a post-bac

My reinvention list will vary greatly depending upon MCAT score.

DO schools have to be on the list too.

Just wanna add that MSAR lists if schools will look at postbacc work instead.

 

[Goro]

Just wanna add that MSAR lists if schools will look at postbacc work instead.

True, but them the MCAT still is a limiting factor.

 

[ByThe+C]

Student doesn't need a post-bac

My reinvention list will vary greatly depending upon MCAT score.

DO schools have to be on the list too.

Have there been any changes to your recommendations (*from your 2021 list) for 'high-ish' MCAT scores (515-520) and 3.5-3.65 GPA reinventors? (assume Low SES URM)

 

[Goro]

Have there been any changes to your recommendations (*from your 2021 list) for 'high-ish' MCAT scores (515-520) and 3.5-3.65 GPA reinventors? (assume Low SES URM)

For MD schools, not really.

For DO, Include UNECOM if you’re from the NE, OSUCOM if you’re from the Plains states and PacNW if you’re from that region. I can't recommend LMU, ARCOM, SOMA, RVU, BCOM, ICOM and LUCOM, for different reasons. Avoid those new schools that haven't graduated a class yet, if possible.

 

[ByThe+C]

For MD schools, not really.

For DO, Include UNECOM if you’re from the NE, OSUCOM if you’re from the Plains states and PacNW if you’re from that region. I can't recommend LMU, ARCOM, SOMA, RVU, BCOM, ICOM and LUCOM, for different reasons. Avoid those new schools that haven't graduated a class yet, if possible.

Thank you, I was asking because Columbia seemed to be going the way of NYU Grossman but apparently their GPA and MCAT range for 2023 was 2.98-4 and 508-528, respectively.

 

[Anakinmemer]

Thank you, I was asking because Columbia seemed to be going the way of NYU Grossman but apparently their GPA and MCAT range for 2023 was 2.98-4 and 508-528, respectively.

You shouldn't really base anything on the low end of the range...the person(s) with a 2.98 and 508 may have had parents that are huge donors or some insanely unique circumstance. Best to look at the 10th, 25th, median, 75th, 90th percentile range for the school. I haven't had access to the MSAR in a bit but I assume Columbias are much higher than that low so it doesn't really mean much

 

[lacrossegirl420]

Also it’s likely the 2.98 and 508 weren’t the same person

 

[classof2028md]

How do you know Columbia’s range was 2.98-4? I couldn’t find that data but would love to know.

 

[Goro]

How do you know Columbia’s range was 2.98-4? I couldn’t find that data but would love to know.

MSAR ONLINE

 

[ByThe+C]

How do you know Columbia’s range was 2.98-4? I couldn’t find that data but would love to know.

FAQs

Learn more about application requirements, student life, and other frequently asked questions.

www.vagelos.columbia.edu

It's possible that the range may not be true and is just there to attract more applicants.

 

[ByThe+C]

You shouldn't really base anything on the low end of the range...the person(s) with a 2.98 and 508 may have had parents that are huge donors or some insanely unique circumstance. Best to look at the 10th, 25th, median, 75th, 90th percentile range for the school. I haven't had access to the MSAR in a bit but I assume Columbias are much higher than that low so it doesn't really mean much

Which is exactly why I asked why Columbia is still considered a reinventor friendly school given its high GPA and MCAT 10th percentiles.

 

[Goro]

FAQs

Learn more about application requirements, student life, and other frequently asked questions.

www.vagelos.columbia.edu

It's possible that the range may not be true and is just there to attract more applicants.

Columbia's 10th %ile for MCAT is 515 and 90th is 526

For sGPA, it's 3.69, and the median so high, at 3.93, that you can't see 90th %ile, but it's likely 4.0.
For cGPA, it's 3.75/3.93/4.0 [for 90th]

36/138 matriculants have had post-bac work, while 9% have a graduate degree.

Source: MSAR Online

The high number of people with post-bac work says to me that this is a school that rewards reinvention, provided your MCAT matches the reinvention (ie 515+).

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I should also mention, mission fit is still extremely important for reinventors. Watch the student profiles that the university/school promotes.

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[purdey]

Columbia's 10th %ile for MCAT is 515 and 90th is 526

For sGPA, it's 3.69, and the median so high, at 3.93, that you can't see 90th %ile, but it's likely 4.0.
For cGPA, it's 3.75/3.93/4.0 [for 90th]

36/138 matriculants have had post-bac work, while 9% have a graduate degree.

Source: MSAR Online

The high number of people with post-bac work says to me that this is a school that rewards reinvention, provided your MCAT matches the reinvention (ie 515+).

Sorry to hijack this but is a 514 looked at so differently than a 515? I didn’t perform as well as I could’ve/hoped and it’s been hard this cycle feeling like in actuality im a “better” applicant than this score shows

 

[Goro]

Sorry to hijack this but is a 514 looked at so differently than a 515? I didn’t perform as well as I could’ve/hoped and it’s been hard this cycle feeling like in actuality im a “better” applicant than this score shows

It's easy to hit 300 in batting practice; facing a 90 MPH fastballer is different.

 

[purdey]

It's easy to hit 300 in batting practice; facing a 90 MPH fastballer is different.

point taken. I developed a migraine later on in the exam and still scored in the 88th percentile, so imagine how I could've done facing a 90 MPH fastballer without an arm tied behind my back.
I think my original question still stands - is a 514 really looked at so differently from a 515? I guess they have to draw the line in the sand somewhere and I'm just trying to make myself feel a bit better lol
Thanks for taking the time to answer all of our never-ending questions, Goro!

 

[Goro]

A 514 scores up in the 90th percentile for tons of schools so, no it's not all that different. Also keep in mind an MCAT score will not determine all your chances the entire app will