Which references to use? (faculty, preceptor, employer)

[rs37982]

I got 4 references: one faculty advisor, my manager from my retail job who has known me 3+ years, and 2 APPE preceptors.

Does anyone have any input (perhaps from the other side who reviews applications) on which 3 letters are preferred? Many programs specify they want clinical preceptors, so if they require at least 2, should my 3rd one be the faculty or employer reference? If the program doesn't specify preferred reference types, should I do precepter+employer+faculty or 2 preceptors plus one of the other?

I just want to know if it will make much of an impact when determining which letters to include in my application. The main concern is whether a letter from a supervisor who knows me longer but is from retail pharmacy is better than an APPE clinical preceptor who only knew me for 6 weeks. Any advice is appreciated, Thank you 🙂

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[lionheart555]

I got 4 references: one faculty advisor, my manager from my retail job who has known me 3+ years, and 2 APPE preceptors.

Does anyone have any input (perhaps from the other side who reviews applications) on which 3 letters are preferred? Many programs specify they want clinical preceptors, so if they require at least 2, should my 3rd one be the faculty or employer reference? If the program doesn't specify preferred reference types, should I do precepter+employer+faculty or 2 preceptors plus one of the other?

I just want to know if it will make much of an impact when determining which letters to include in my application. The main concern is whether a letter from a supervisor who knows me longer but is from retail pharmacy is better than an APPE clinical preceptor who only knew me for 6 weeks. Any advice is appreciated, Thank you 🙂

You should tailor to:

1) What the letter writer knows about you and can speak highly of
2) What is the program looking for

For example, if your program is asking to know about your clinical skills, asking a retail pharmacy manager might not be the most appropriate. Asking your boss that does informatics would be even less appropriate. If a program wants to know how well you work in a team, maybe a rotation preceptor that worked only 1:1 with you might not be great. But if you participated in rounds, multidisciplinary team(s), then that might be appropriate. In this case, your employer might be a best bet too.

The goal is to have to as diverse letter writers as possible and tailor them to the program. The standard is usually 3 letters. So in those 3 letters, can you see your letter writers able to represent the following at minimum
1) Why YOU are a good fit in that residency setting (so usually this involves a letter writer with some experience in that field, clinic, setting, etc)
2) What your personality and work ethic is (usually a manager, adviser, preceptor) you have worked with for many years
3) Misc Skills or second Letter writer 1 (someone that can speak to your passions and skill sets. What are you good at? This can be any writer. Mainly supporting and ideally in another area of practice than letter writer 1. For example letter writer 1 works outpatient. Letter writer 3 could work outpatient in a different clinic, or work inpatient).

There is no right answer. Do your best to represent many different sides of yourself (as told from the perspectives of your letter writers).

In your specific case, I would advocate for the 2 APPEs and the manager. But then again, it really depends. What does your faculty adviser do? Are they well known? What does he/she know about you?

Good luck!

 

[spacecowgirl]

Agree with lionheart. I would choose the person who knows you better provided they can write a good letter.

 

[rl123]

I think applicants should keep in mind the format of the LOR- on PHORCAS its a checklist format with various fields with different gradations. I honestly forget whether it was needs improvement, meets expectations, exceeds expectations or below average, average, above average. The fields being things like written communication, verbal communication, accepts feedback, takes initiative, clinical knowledge,etc.

I've had LOR written from faculty advisors or non-clinical preceptors who simply can't attest to as many fields on the LOR form as a clinical preceptor can, in which case they check off the "n/a" box. If you have too many "n/a" boxes, I mentally write off the LOR as a mediocre letter.

Yes, your LOR writers have freetext fields, but honestly, a column of straight checks in the "above average" column is a lot quicker for me to eyeball than the text and subtext of a written addendum

 

[KARM12]

Generally LOR I see from retail managers aren't well written

 

[Dred Pirate]

It doesn’t really matter. Just make sure when you ask for the LOR that you ask if they will right a “positive LOR” because I would say 15% of the LOR’s that I read are far from positive, and that is a application killer.

 

[indecisiveresident]

Are you able to tell when a student writes their own letter of recommendation? A lot of my classmates have had preceptors ask them to write their own letters, and I feel if I were to ask my retail manager they might ask me to write my own too.

 

[Dred Pirate]

Are you able to tell when a student writes their own letter of recommendation? A lot of my classmates have had preceptors ask them to write their own letters, and I feel if I were to ask my retail manager they might ask me to write my own too.

how lazy is the person who would ask someone to write a LOR for themselves - I would ask maybe for them to put together a list of things they do or send me a CV, but not write the letter

 

[spacecowgirl]

how lazy is the person who would ask someone to write a LOR for themselves - I would ask maybe for them to put together a list of things they do or send me a CV, but not write the letter

Super lazy. I did this, more or less, when writing letters. Of course I would put my own spin on it, but I don't remember what students did what when they were on rotation with me. I don't remember what I ate for dinner last night. I need a memory jog. It would also help me figure out why a particular person was interested in that particular site. To clarify, I would never ever just put my name on something someone else wrote, but I didn't have the time to be starting all that from scratch, too many competing priorities. /Lazy.

 

[someonesomething]

Resurrecting this old post with a similar question: for a PGY-2, would it be better to have 3 letters from pharmacists in the same clinical area (ex: going into peds, getting a gen peds, PICU, and NICU pharmacist letter) or would it be better to show diversity (ex: going into peds, getting a gen peds, infectious diseases letter)

 

[rl123]

for something as niche as peds, would go for all pediatrics letter writers.
Don't forget your RPD. One time we had an applicant with 3 letters, none were from the RPD, and that was a red flag for us.

 

[someonesomething]

for something as niche as peds, would go for all pediatrics letter writers.
Don't forget your RPD. One time we had an applicant with 3 letters, none were from the RPD, and that was a red flag for us.

I didn't realize we had to include a letter from the RPD! Only one program specified it so I assumed it was optional. Thank you!

My program has 3 hospital sites and the clinical coordinator of one of the hospitals knows me more than the RPD of the program. Would it be better to get the clinical coordinator or the RPD letter? (It just seems like I'd have better letters with all the peds ones)

Thank you so much!

 

[rl123]

Just be aware that different hospitals use different titles. At one hospital, a "Clinical Coordinator" may have the same job functions as a a "Clinical Pharmacist" or "Clinical Pharmacy Specialist" at another hospital (ie, there are multiple clinical coordinators at the same hospital). Other hospitals designate "clinical coordinator" as a supervisory/managerial role.

100% this is confusing. Hopefully the coordinator who is writing for you somehow denotes in their job title that they have supervisory responsibility over the site as a whole as part of the residency.

It sounds like you are not leaning towards asking your RPD. Another thing to consider when choosing LOR writers, is how professionally networked are these people? Someone who doesn't know you as well, but is known regionally or within a specific specialty would help you out more than someone less networked but knows you more personally. My two cents

 

[someonesomething]

Just be aware that different hospitals use different titles. At one hospital, a "Clinical Coordinator" may have the same job functions as a a "Clinical Pharmacist" or "Clinical Pharmacy Specialist" at another hospital (ie, there are multiple clinical coordinators at the same hospital). Other hospitals designate "clinical coordinator" as a supervisory/managerial role.

100% this is confusing. Hopefully the coordinator who is writing for you somehow denotes in their job title that they have supervisory responsibility over the site as a whole as part of the residency.

It sounds like you are not leaning towards asking your RPD. Another thing to consider when choosing LOR writers, is how professionally networked are these people? Someone who doesn't know you as well, but is known regionally or within a specific specialty would help you out more than someone less networked but knows you more personally. My two cents

I was mostly at the other two hospital sites and by the time I made it to the site where the RPD has her office, she went on maternity leave. So it wouldnt be fair to either of us to expect a letter, sort of?

I don't think any of my potential letter writers have regional acclaim but I was thinking it could look gook to have three peds letters just in case? But I'll ask my clinical coordinator!

I really appreciate your input and advice, thank you so much!

 

[LongStoryShort]

Sorry, what does RPD stand for?

 

[Dred Pirate]

Sorry, what does RPD stand for?

residency program director