Which schools do the ol' Secondary Rip Off Scheme?

[UseUrHeadFred]

I'm getting ready to apply, and was just wondering what schools are known to send secondaries to people and then immediately turn down your app. Is there a list of schools that are guilty of this, or is it truly the majority?

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[exmike]

not a majority, but a large number

Boston U and U Chicago come to mind'

BU is annoying. no secondary, just 100 bucks, and a quick rejeciton.

 

[Vandyfox]

Michigan State hit me up style. They actually wrote me a letter saying, We're interested in you as an applicant, please send $60 and then we'll send you a secondary. Then I got the secondary, then the rejection almost immediately back to back.

vandyfox

 

[exmike]

Michigan State hit me up style. They actually wrote me a letter saying, We're interested in you as an applicant, please send $60 and then we'll send you a secondary. Then I got the secondary, then the rejection almost immediately back to back.

vandyfox

yeah. thats a good way of filtering out non serious people though. of course at that point in time there was no way i was NOT going to send it back.

 

[Cerberus]

I still dont understand why Tulane wont take the FAP waiver

 

[bigbassinbob]

out of state u of florida applicants get the rejection email as soon as they cash your check.

 

[Lochmoor]

I would like add Jefferson. Unless you have some sort of tie to the school or are a Delaware resident Jeff is not gonna show any love. (They may look favorably upon CA residents)

 

[BioMedResearch]

B U!!!! Upon receipt of your check you will receive prompt notification that you are rejected.

 

[(nicedream)]

And then there are the schools which take your money and then never correspond with you again.
Miami, USF

 

[bearpaw]

i think gtown throws away every application they get from an indian person with an indian (hindu) name. I don't know a single indian kid from my school who got an interview there...i went to a top school and know indians with a variety of gpa and mcat combinations.

in fact, i was surprised with the speed my rejection was sent to me. gtown sucks too, who do they think they are? i even put down aethist or agnostic or something just to give it a fighting chance. those bastards!

of course, if there is a hindu named person that got an interview, holla...

 

[mikeyboy]

I'm not sure why it matters to you if you know a school sends out secondaries to everyone. Are you going to apply through AMCAS to a school you already believe you have no chance of getting into? Otherwise, how are you going to believe that they actually aren't giving you a chance but just want your money?

 

[UseUrHeadFred]

Honestly, I don't think it will affect my school choices. But, it's still nice to know.

 

[mlw03]

I don't really understand the premise of this thread. It is impossible to get into a school without a secondary, and every school charges at least a small fee. For every school that people are going to complain about, obviously they have a full class come August, so clearly they DO look at the applications.

Secondary fees are an unpleasant necessity - 8000 applications don't get sorted and screened by magic. People have to do this, and these people need to be paid a fair salary. The only thing that makes me leery are schools that, even if AMCAS gives them a waiver, won't give the waiver. That just doesn't seem kosher to me.

 

[Mr. Rosewater]

i think this thread is completely stupid. every school is 100% capable of rejecting you immediately after cashing your check. furthermore, would you prefer if they didn't tell you for 6 months that you'de been rejected?

 

[Neuronix]

I still dont understand why Tulane wont take the FAP waiver

I absolutely agree. My state school, UMaryland, is the same way. Of course it didn't matter for me because they rejected me for in-state tuition anyways over something really trivial. Good way to try to recruit disadvantaged students to your school...

PS: I agree with Mr. Rosewater. Some of the MD/PhD programs I applied to (Harvard, Hopkins) took my money and I heard nothing from them until far later when I called them. They were rude to me on the phone, and later I just got my rejection letter. Is this any better?

 

[UseUrHeadFred]

I don't really understand the premise of this thread...clearly they DO look at the applications. Secondary fees are an unpleasant necessity - 8000 applications don't get sorted and screened by magic.

Lets take BU as an example. They charge what, $100 for processing a secondary? Lets say they get the 8,000 applications you propose.

For arguments sake, lets say that their computer has, unbeknownst to them, and prior to even sending out the secondary, already screened 50% of them out because of their MCAT, GPA or both. I would argue that the number is much higher than that, but I'll go with half to account for the fact that some students are not even in the right neighborhood and shouldn't even consider applying to that school.

So that means they're making $400,000 off of people whose applications will NEVER be seen by human eyes.

Clearly, they do NOT look at all the applications. I don't know any other business where you are charged to find out that you have ALREADY been disqualified.

What does that change? Will it make my application different? Minimally, but yes, it will. I'm only applying to a small number of schools. If I have to choose between two similar schools, and one of them is practicing what I consider to be unethical behavior, I'm going with the other one.

I'm not arguing that secondaries shouldn't have fees. I'm saying that if you're going to do a pre-screening, like I am absolutely convinced they do, then you shouldn't rip people off.

 

[UseUrHeadFred]

i think this thread is completely stupid.

I'm not even going to say anything.

 

[mlw03]

You make a legit point - it would be nice if schools pre-screened the AMCAS apps via computer, and people with numbers below a certain cutoff were rejected immediately, without being bilked for a seconary fee.

The problem with that is people do get into schools with absurdly low numbers, so somehow a real person is looking at those applications. It's not common, but I'd wager that at least 100 people will enter medical school (US allopathic) this fall with an MCAT under 22. So my point is that we really don't know how screenings work.

Is it fair that schools make so much money on applications, NO, but perhaps we should think of application fees as a disincentive for unqualified students. What I mean is that the person with a 19 and a 3.15 should know better than to apply to BU, and perhaps the secondary fee will discourage them from wasting their money and BU's time.

I also think you're estimate of 50% is too high. People apply to a lot of schools because this whole process is very random at times, so by throwing a lot of darts, there's a better chance of hitting the board. Of 8000 applicants to a large private school I would venture that at least 6000 have an MCAT over 26 and GPA over 3.3. And those numbers are simply not low enough to be cutoffs. I really believe that most applications are looked at by a real person, and an admissions office staff-person should be well-paid. Perhaps I'm naive.

So while some schools will take a candidate's money and quickly reject them, I like to think it's because their application has been reviewed already.

Lets take BU as an example. They charge what, $100 for processing a secondary? Lets say they get the 8,000 applications you propose.

For arguments sake, lets say that their computer has, unbeknownst to them, and prior to even sending out the secondary, already screened 50% of them out because of their MCAT, GPA or both. I would argue that the number is much higher than that, but I'll go with half to account for the fact that some students are not even in the right neighborhood and shouldn't even consider applying to that school.

So that means they're making $400,000 off of people whose applications will NEVER be seen by human eyes.

Clearly, they do NOT look at all the applications. I don't know any other business where you are charged to find out that you have ALREADY been disqualified.

What does that change? Will it make my application different? Minimally, but yes, it will. I'm only applying to a small number of schools. If I have to choose between two similar schools, and one of them is practicing what I consider to be unethical behavior, I'm going with the other one.

I'm not arguing that secondaries shouldn't have fees. I'm saying that if you're going to do a pre-screening, like I am absolutely convinced they do, then you shouldn't rip people off.

 

[lizzylu]

Another way to think of it:
Many people don't do their research into a med school. Often times if they don't look at the fine print, a school may REQUIRE a semester of statistics, or two of calculus, 24 units of humanities, etc.

I feel like so many people don't do their research into the schools they're applying to. Then when they get a secondary (which most private schools send out to everyone) they pay the fee and then are flabbergasted when they get rejected ?!

So, one way to look at it is incoming med students should be happy there are people like this, b/c it gives their school mucho $$$, making their tuition less.

 

[celticmists18]

I would like add Jefferson. Unless you have some sort of tie to the school or are a Delaware resident Jeff is not gonna show any love. (They may look favorably upon CA residents)

I don't agree with this one. The reason they seem to reject a bunch of people is because they only interview 800 (as compared to the 1200 they interview at other schools). But of course I am biased . . .

 

[AsherAysh]

I liked Vandy's process. They only ask for a secondary AFTER they invite you for an interview, so that if they reject you pre-interview, you will only be out $30 instead of $100+.

 

[pekq]

I liked Vandy's process. They only ask for a secondary AFTER they invite you for an interview, so that if they reject you pre-interview, you will only be out $30 instead of $100+.

Vandy's secondary fee is actually only $50. I personally wouldn't have done their secondary if I didn't know I had an interview already (didn't do UChicago's). I wish schools would do what Vandy does, then we wouldn't have to waste our time on secondaries except at places where we are given interviews.

 

[Trekkie963]

Vandy's secondary fee is actually only $50. I personally wouldn't have done their secondary if I didn't know I had an interview already (didn't do UChicago's). I wish schools would do what Vandy does, then we wouldn't have to waste our time on secondaries except at places where we are given interviews.

I almost agree with you, except I like that most schools take letters of recommendation into account before making their decision (and LORs go out with the secondaries).

 

[Jalby]

If I was setting it up, saying you have 600 interview slots and 3000 aplications, I'd give 300 slots on primary alone and give them the interview and secondary at the same time, give the next 700 people secondaries and choose the 300 best secondaries for interviews. Reject the other 2000. But that would decrease my budget for teh admissions office.

 

[Premedtomed]

i think gtown throws away every application they get from an indian person with an indian (hindu) name. I don't know a single indian kid from my school who got an interview there...i went to a top school and know indians with a variety of gpa and mcat combinations.

in fact, i was surprised with the speed my rejection was sent to me. gtown sucks too, who do they think they are? i even put down aethist or agnostic or something just to give it a fighting chance. those bastards!

of course, if there is a hindu named person that got an interview, holla...

wtf That pisses me off. real bastards

 

[felipe5]

Mayo should be way up there on this list

 

[Eraserhead]

Cornell, Finch, Loyola, NYMC, Einstein, (NYU and Columbia- no secondaries, you just pay the fee), Georgetown, GW, BU, Tufts, Jefferson, Drexel, Temple, etc.

 

[Premedtomed]

i think gtown throws away every application they get from an indian person with an indian (hindu) name. I don't know a single indian kid from my school who got an interview there...i went to a top school and know indians with a variety of gpa and mcat combinations.

in fact, i was surprised with the speed my rejection was sent to me. gtown sucks too, who do they think they are? i even put down aethist or agnostic or something just to give it a fighting chance. those bastards!

of course, if there is a hindu named person that got an interview, holla...

on the other hand, you might be mistaken there are good amount of Indian students in Undergrad school. based on that it is possible that there are a few Hindu/Indian students in med school. May be there are just too many of us these days lol

 

[Polar girl]

I disagree with Loyola as a rip-off, unless they've changed since last year.

 

[Eraserhead]

I disagree with Loyola as a rip-off, unless they've changed since last year.

Ooops yeah sorry they had some BS questions.

Edit: Actually I realized I was just listing schools that send secondaries to everyone, which to me is a rip off.

 

[JunkintheTrunk]

Michigan State hit me up style. They actually wrote me a letter saying, We're interested in you as an applicant, please send $60 and then we'll send you a secondary. Then I got the secondary, then the rejection almost immediately back to back.

vandyfox

same thing happened to me

 

[Ragzpie]

i think gtown throws away every application they get from an indian person with an indian (hindu) name. I don't know a single indian kid from my school who got an interview there...i went to a top school and know indians with a variety of gpa and mcat combinations.

in fact, i was surprised with the speed my rejection was sent to me. gtown sucks too, who do they think they are? i even put down aethist or agnostic or something just to give it a fighting chance. those bastards!

of course, if there is a hindu named person that got an interview, holla...

I am as Indian as they come. I have a very Hindu sounding name and was accepted to G-town med.

 

[JohnnieBlue]

BU is definately stealing people's money. I can't imagine that my numbers didn't fall into their "human eyes will see this application" category, yet it took a quick 2 weeks to reject me. I've been interviewed at Hopkins, Columbia, Yale etc, so this was a complete shocker. I don't mean to sound pompous at all, but the BU rejection pissed me off big time. It's not like they read new information about you in their secondary. They have the info available to make a decision before you send them $100. In essence, you are sending them money when they already know that you are going to be rejected and they will not have any additional information available to them about you. To me, this sounds very morally suspect and I don't mind not attending a school with a major ethics issue.

Another one is Cornell. If you're not a WASP or a minority, don't bother. They rejected me within less than 2 weeks. What a waste of time and money.

 

[Mr. Rosewater]

BU is definately stealing people's money. I can't imagine that my numbers didn't fall into their "human eyes will see this application" category, yet it took a quick 2 weeks to reject me. I've been interviewed at Hopkins, Columbia, Yale etc, so this was a complete shocker. I don't mean to sound pompous at all, but the BU rejection pissed me off big time. It's not like they read new information about you in their secondary. They have the info available to make a decision before you send them $100. In essence, you are sending them money when they already know that you are going to be rejected and they will not have any additional information available to them about you. To me, this sounds very morally suspect and I don't mind not attending a school with a major ethics issue.

Another one is Cornell. If you're not a WASP or a minority, don't bother. They rejected me within less than 2 weeks. What a waste of time and money.

did you ever consider that perhaps BU isn't there to stroke your ego? it's quite possible they looked at your stats and figured you'de probably get in somewhere better and were just using them as a back up (which is probably the truth).

the ridiculousness that is this thread continues........

 

[JohnnieBlue]

did you ever consider that perhaps BU isn't there to stroke your ego? it's quite possible they looked at your stats and figured you'de probably get in somewhere better and were just using them as a back up (which is probably the truth).

the ridiculousness that is this thread continues........

Maybe you have a tough time understanding logic. My beef with BU is that they know that they will reject someone BEFORE they get the $100, whether for having inferior scores, or as you think, superior scores. Many schools probably are guilty of the same thing, but at least you have the opportunity to tell them something new in the secondary. BU doesn't ask anything new. They just want your 100 bucks and only then can you be informed that your numbers don't fit their window. At least make me write an essay or ask something meaningful instead of stealing money for no reason!

 

[Eraserhead]

Many people told me not to apply to BU and waste my 100 bucks but my numbers are about at their average and I got an interview right away. I think it can go either way, they just don't have that many spots to give out due to the postbacc programs and such.

 

[JP896]

About 3 days after 100 bucks was cashed, rejection came.

 

[BOSSofCU]

I would tend to agree with BU. I received quick rejection with high scores. I suppose this might be good evidence that your scores should be around their range.

I think a better way to look at this would be to focus on schools that don't send secondaries unless they think you're well qualified. It's hard to tell who screws you over the worst, but at least schools that don't automatically send secondaries are trying not to. I know this is the case at UCSF, (because they didn't send me one) and I think it's also true of Stanford and Northwestern, though I'm not sure.

Why does Mr.Rosewater read and post on threads he thinks are ridiculous?