Which way Democratic or Republican?
Started by ThinkFast007
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cdql said:
"Total equality present yet"??????
Gimme a break.
There never will be total equality.
Even if your pool includes only white people.
People, regardless of race, are not created equally.
Some are better. Some are not.
I want my kids to be part of a league that rewards winners...not a league that gives out trophys for everyone, for their "participation".
Gave your best, Soog? (my son's nickname)
Then you're the f uck ing man.
Win or lose, I could care less.
But you fought a fight that awarded the best individual.
You've got my support.
militarymd said:
minorities can't be racist?
tell that to my ex-gf's dingus korean father who would rather die than have whitey in the family.
don't play that card Mil. anyone who discredits another race based on that quality alone is by definition a racist.
just sayin'
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Trisomy13 said:
No, minorities cannot be racist.
How can minorities not be racists. I hear black folk complaining about hispanic folk here all the time. Minorities can be just as racist as the majority.
The whole my great great great great grandpa was a slave and great great great grandpa was segregated is getting to be old. None of these things exist anymore. So will african americans in the year 2050 still think the majority white owes them a fre ride for mistakes of early leaders of this country?
When will this attitude and misconception end? It cant go on forever. What will make it end. It is when this attitude that the American government owes african americans something for what happend to their great great great great grand parents dies that African Americans will be equal, will increase the number of college grads, will increase the average incomes of AA households will get more respect overall as a race, and will be seen as totally even and equal with whites. This attitude that someone owes them something is the very thing that holds them down. Yes I applogize that whites that I never met and never care to meet did horrible things to African Americans no doubt. But these things happen no more, there are pell grants out of the a$$ for minorities to pay for undergrad and even graduate schoool so there is no excuse why a white sinlge mother can go back to school and bust her a$$ and a black one cant when the money and oppotunity is there more now than ever before. Instead sit at home and think that people should give a free ride, complain of inequality when not taking advantage of the full scope of what is available to them.
The whole my great great great great grandpa was a slave and great great great grandpa was segregated is getting to be old. None of these things exist anymore. So will african americans in the year 2050 still think the majority white owes them a fre ride for mistakes of early leaders of this country?
When will this attitude and misconception end? It cant go on forever. What will make it end. It is when this attitude that the American government owes african americans something for what happend to their great great great great grand parents dies that African Americans will be equal, will increase the number of college grads, will increase the average incomes of AA households will get more respect overall as a race, and will be seen as totally even and equal with whites. This attitude that someone owes them something is the very thing that holds them down. Yes I applogize that whites that I never met and never care to meet did horrible things to African Americans no doubt. But these things happen no more, there are pell grants out of the a$$ for minorities to pay for undergrad and even graduate schoool so there is no excuse why a white sinlge mother can go back to school and bust her a$$ and a black one cant when the money and oppotunity is there more now than ever before. Instead sit at home and think that people should give a free ride, complain of inequality when not taking advantage of the full scope of what is available to them.
katinka said:
Liberalism=socialism. We all saw how well that worked in the soviet union...oh wait, their economy collapsed and the average citizen earns something like 50 bucks a month. But nobody can accuse them of not taking care of the those unable or unwilling to work, after all, working is a bothersome tiring affair that many are not suited to and shouldnt have to endure. 🙄
Reverse discrimination = discrimination. The addition of the word 'reverse' is redundant.
"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." 👍
Martin Luther King, Jr. August 28, 1963
Also, for all of you who are under the delusion that Mrs. Clinton is a centrist, coalition-building stateswoman please check the attached link for her very interesting misinterpretation of the above quote. Martin and John are rolling in their graves.
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=2440
"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." 👍
Martin Luther King, Jr. August 28, 1963
Also, for all of you who are under the delusion that Mrs. Clinton is a centrist, coalition-building stateswoman please check the attached link for her very interesting misinterpretation of the above quote. Martin and John are rolling in their graves.
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=2440
Give me a break.
Is socialism REALLY that bad? I know it's been driven into our heads since conception that capitalism is king, but seriously, most of the countries of Europe are socialist. They do pretty well most of the time. Medicare and Social Security are the two most popular government programs in American history. Socialism sure as hell has its problems, but our government currently is a mess, our health care system is in shambles, and our economy will crash without a major tax hike or when the Chinese decide to cash in on our debt. We're not exactly a model most countries look to anymore. As our country descends into a 1920's model of unregulated capitalism without a safety net, I think we might want to remember what happened at the end of that decade.
By the way, Canada's health care system is well-run and VERY popular, not the joke that one of the previous posts suggests. There are waits only for elective tests and procedures, and if they spent anywhere near what we spend there wouldn't be waits for anything. Oh yeah, physicians also get paid for EVERY PATIENT they see. That's a luxury we can only dream about. Sure some of them want private insurance too, but do you really think that a US version of national health insurance wouldn't allow the rich to continue to get anything they want whenever they want it?
That's the American way isn't it?
Is socialism REALLY that bad? I know it's been driven into our heads since conception that capitalism is king, but seriously, most of the countries of Europe are socialist. They do pretty well most of the time. Medicare and Social Security are the two most popular government programs in American history. Socialism sure as hell has its problems, but our government currently is a mess, our health care system is in shambles, and our economy will crash without a major tax hike or when the Chinese decide to cash in on our debt. We're not exactly a model most countries look to anymore. As our country descends into a 1920's model of unregulated capitalism without a safety net, I think we might want to remember what happened at the end of that decade.
By the way, Canada's health care system is well-run and VERY popular, not the joke that one of the previous posts suggests. There are waits only for elective tests and procedures, and if they spent anywhere near what we spend there wouldn't be waits for anything. Oh yeah, physicians also get paid for EVERY PATIENT they see. That's a luxury we can only dream about. Sure some of them want private insurance too, but do you really think that a US version of national health insurance wouldn't allow the rich to continue to get anything they want whenever they want it?
That's the American way isn't it?
Dream on.starsop93 said:
Canada's health system may be popular THERE. You think it would work here? BS. Like you said, "there are waits only for elective tests and procedures". So - you want your hernia repaired? Sure Mr. Smith, we can do that next December and hope it doesn't incarcerate. You want your hysterectomy done Mrs. Jones? October would be fine - hope it really is just a fibroid and not cancer once we actually get inside and take a look.
You have an overly simplistic view of socialized medicine. Canada doesn't have the adversarial legal system we do, so physicians don't have the malpractice headache nearly as much as US docs.
Canada doesn't have near the level of illegal immigrants and welfare cheats that we do here, stretching government dollars even thinner.
Explain to me why there are so many Canadian MD's in the US? It ain't because they're making a fortune in Saskatchewan.
And what percentage of your income would you like to go towards taxes to pay for all this? 50% - 60% - 70%? That's what many of the citizens in European countries are paying.
If you're so fond of socialism/communism, feel free to move to any of those countries.
I'm no fan of the canadian system. However it makes just about no sense to say "if we have that system your taxes will go to 50%" or similar sentiments because you are already paying that money to an insurance company (either directly or through your employer). Health care costs money, and in canada they send it to Ottawa, here we send it to insurance companies (and some to Washington for Medicare/Medicaid).
I prefer our way, where hopefully market forces can work, but it's not as if health care money isn't already coming out of your pocket.
And one can actually make pretty good money in Sasketchewan, especially combined with the cost of living. Probably better to be a MDA in Saskatoon than Manhatten in terms of income/living costs.
Enough with the America - love it or leave it BS arguments. Do it my way or leave is a stupid statement. People who say it should leave the US.
I prefer our way, where hopefully market forces can work, but it's not as if health care money isn't already coming out of your pocket.
And one can actually make pretty good money in Sasketchewan, especially combined with the cost of living. Probably better to be a MDA in Saskatoon than Manhatten in terms of income/living costs.
Enough with the America - love it or leave it BS arguments. Do it my way or leave is a stupid statement. People who say it should leave the US.
Nah a former cowoker nurse RN of mine claimed to make 35 g's a year in canada getting taxed about 55%. Moved to Houston and in a year is making 75g's working similar hours and getting taxed much less. He knows exacly why he is here and the cost of suburban Htown living is the cheapest of the cheap when it comes to major Metro areas in the US.
Id rather make the extra 40K and pay for my families health insurance. Then I can save or spend that money to hopefully help stimulate my countries economy and help make me more wealth as well. Come on half of the countries in Europe as well as canada have an even more sputtering economy that the US as well as high higher unemployment rates. Look it is easier to provide healthcare to all with populations as such Canada 30millionish, France 60million, Germany 80 million, hungary 10 mill, UK 60 mill shoot all those counties populations added up dont equal to our almost 300million. Not to mention when looking at population trends Germany, france and those older european countries are actually shrinking as opposed to the US which is growing by at least 1.5% a year and thats just those that are documented, its prob. more lilke 3%. And we pay for that exta 1.5% that are illegal.
Id rather make the extra 40K and pay for my families health insurance. Then I can save or spend that money to hopefully help stimulate my countries economy and help make me more wealth as well. Come on half of the countries in Europe as well as canada have an even more sputtering economy that the US as well as high higher unemployment rates. Look it is easier to provide healthcare to all with populations as such Canada 30millionish, France 60million, Germany 80 million, hungary 10 mill, UK 60 mill shoot all those counties populations added up dont equal to our almost 300million. Not to mention when looking at population trends Germany, france and those older european countries are actually shrinking as opposed to the US which is growing by at least 1.5% a year and thats just those that are documented, its prob. more lilke 3%. And we pay for that exta 1.5% that are illegal.
All these immigration issues drive home a point. We probably wouldnt have this 'healthcare' crisis if it wasnt for the MILLIONS of illegal immigrants we can not turn down in all of the ERs in the US. Furthermore, county hospitals are obliged to care for these illegal immigrants, FURTHER skyrocketing healtcare costs.
I understand that these illegal immigrants are human and we need to be compasionate,etc. But, I do think it's unfair to give these healthcare rights to these individuals while law abiding immigrants and others are hurting.
Furthermore, physicians and to be physicians complain about the future decrease in salary. Check this out. This can also be attributed to the fact that midlevels are being paid MORE nowadays then they once were, thus physician pay is hurting. Why do I bring it up? I was listening to talkradio the other day. A 50 yo physician called in and stated that he's trying to retire soon because of dec reimbursements, inc malpract insurance, and increased overhead. He stated that his partners who he claims are 7 years younger than him are trying to retire soon also!! 😱
So the physician asked the NPR guest what the solution would be. The guest conceded that in the near future, nurses and other allied health workers would likely take up some of the roles of physicians, thus providing lesser quality care but at a cheaper rate. The physician added that this would be a VERY bad problem, especially given the fact that more and more people are getting older and with this age the complexity of medical problems increases. SO basically you have more midlevels taking care of REALLY sick patients. Very disturbing.
I dont know about you guys but that sort of ticked me off. I mean these docs are essentially being 'forced' into retirement because they just can't hack it any longer, while the midlevels are flourishing.
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I understand that these illegal immigrants are human and we need to be compasionate,etc. But, I do think it's unfair to give these healthcare rights to these individuals while law abiding immigrants and others are hurting.
Furthermore, physicians and to be physicians complain about the future decrease in salary. Check this out. This can also be attributed to the fact that midlevels are being paid MORE nowadays then they once were, thus physician pay is hurting. Why do I bring it up? I was listening to talkradio the other day. A 50 yo physician called in and stated that he's trying to retire soon because of dec reimbursements, inc malpract insurance, and increased overhead. He stated that his partners who he claims are 7 years younger than him are trying to retire soon also!! 😱
So the physician asked the NPR guest what the solution would be. The guest conceded that in the near future, nurses and other allied health workers would likely take up some of the roles of physicians, thus providing lesser quality care but at a cheaper rate. The physician added that this would be a VERY bad problem, especially given the fact that more and more people are getting older and with this age the complexity of medical problems increases. SO basically you have more midlevels taking care of REALLY sick patients. Very disturbing.
I dont know about you guys but that sort of ticked me off. I mean these docs are essentially being 'forced' into retirement because they just can't hack it any longer, while the midlevels are flourishing.
👎
It's all about border enforcement. Once people are here, It would be inhumane to deny them healthcare. Plus, illegals for the most part avoid getting involved in the healthcare system if they can help it. They're more likely to end up in an ED after a trauma then to come in compaining of a toothache.
WHAT? you dont know what the hell you are talking about. In all ERs I have seen, illegals flock to them because A) they cant be turned away due to EMTALA legislation and B) they have to be treated regardless of ability to pay which 9 times out of 10 they do not. In the ER at my home institution, we have a 12 hour wait and most of the complaints are, "I need my prescription refilled, or I have a sore throat, or my personal favorite " I need you to fill out this disability form so I dont have to work any more." Oh by the way all of these converations are in Spanish because nobody can speak english.Pooh & Annie said:
starsop93 said:
Yeah socialism really is that bad...France is absolutely broke, birth rates for native Germans is in the negative percents, while Turkish immigrants have a health birth rate due to liberal social welfare programs, we have all seen the results of Russia a.k.a the Soviet SOCIALIST Republic, the german National Socialist party a.k.a NAZI's, and the canadian are so damn broke all they can do is sit around smoke weed and freeze their asses off. It takes about 6 days to get a CT scan in canada, but hey SOCIALISM ROCKS!!!
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So we all know what the immigration problem is. Too many immigrants, not enough services. They do jobs that Americans do not want to do, but are vital to the economy...sounds like a Catch 22.
What ideas do we like?
Guest workers from George Bush. This system will be difficult to monitor and probably drown in beurocratic BS. The employers have to document that they can not hire an American to fill the job, then they can look to foreign lands.
Do we lock up the border and all of the illegal immigrants like the rest of republican party wants? We build 700 miles of fence and prosecute those that cross it. Also, the bill will punish people that help illegal immigrants like ERs and Charities. It passed in the house. It is in committee today and Frist wants it out today or he will personally re-write the legislation.
Democrats---let them all in and give them all drivers licenses and a lexus as they cross the border.
Which is right...I still do not know.
Cubs
What ideas do we like?
Guest workers from George Bush. This system will be difficult to monitor and probably drown in beurocratic BS. The employers have to document that they can not hire an American to fill the job, then they can look to foreign lands.
Do we lock up the border and all of the illegal immigrants like the rest of republican party wants? We build 700 miles of fence and prosecute those that cross it. Also, the bill will punish people that help illegal immigrants like ERs and Charities. It passed in the house. It is in committee today and Frist wants it out today or he will personally re-write the legislation.
Democrats---let them all in and give them all drivers licenses and a lexus as they cross the border.
Which is right...I still do not know.
Cubs
You'd be surprised.Pooh & Annie said:
Pooh & Annie said:
Argentus said:
So the reason native Germans are not having kids is because they have a generous social safety net???
The German National Socialists were about as socialist as the Peoples Republic of China is a republic. The Nazis HATED the socialists and killed as many as they could. Remember the more a country's name has the words "republic", "democratic", or "social", the less likely they are to be any of them.
And you have it all wrong about Canada too... They don't smoke weed because they're broke, they smoke weed because it's AWESOME!
ThinkFast007 said:
Thinkfast though you usually sound like a pretty smart cat sometimes your thinking sounds a little slow. Midlevels salaries are increasing b/c demand is increasing. CRNA salaries are increasing why? Increase demand, not enough CRNA/AA to go around so MD groups are having to increase pay to retain their top employees so they can continue to make the high salaries they are making. I freq look at anesthesiologists salaries on gaswork and have seen them do nothing but increase here recently. And yes malpractice is killing some MD's in some states. Thats why people should fight for tort reform like Texas has done. And the amount of MD's decreasing yeah right. Number 1 as many of you have claimed this year anesthesia and rad ect matched more US MD grads than they have in a while. Not to mention if the US med school graduation levels do drop because of slightly decreased salaries then believe me you know, I know and everyone else know that there will always be more than enough FMG's to fill a good bit of those spots. Finish up go home and then come back to practice here where they are likely to make way way more than they would have made back home. So thinkfast think before you make comments as such. And quoting a "guest" on NPR? How accurate is that?
Argentus said:
Exactly. Turn on the news and you'll see 500,000 young french people pissed off because a law was passed that allows their employer to fire them. WTF is that about? Just do a good job and you won't be fired. Socialism at it's finest.
No, they cant afford to have children, unless that is of course you are willing to live a mediocre existence on the government dole, then you can have all the kids you want.starsop93 said:So the reason native Germans are not having kids is because they have a generous social safety net???
The German National Socialists were about as socialist as the Peoples Republic of China is a republic. The Nazis HATED the socialists and killed as many as they could. Remember the more a country's name has the words "republic", "democratic", or "social", the less likely they are to be any of them.
And you have it all wrong about Canada too... They don't smoke weed because they're broke, they smoke weed because it's AWESOME!
nitecap said:
are you kidding me nite? I would trust a PHYSICIAN on NPR anyday over you or any CRNA. I'm relaying this information to my future colleagues from what I heard from a MD. Gotta problem...hit the ignore button.
recently been exposed to a lot of the business aspect of medicine, but working with a CEO of a hosp. Believe me guys, they're trying to increase the amount of PAs and CRNAs. I asked the dude arent you selling out? He's like, well if docs dont want to work for the money we offer them, they can be replaced with PAs, etc that are willing to take the job for what we offer. So..in terms of hwo you get this irrational thought that docs salaries wont be touched, think again. I can't wait til my residency is over and I can start to mk a change. Again, as ToughLife and I have said...we're all for AA's baby! they rock!
to the guy that was saying that the UK had a great medical system...read this blog by a GP there. Also check out what he says/satirizes about midlevels, and 'nurse-specialists". He compares 'nurse specialists" to the former airline hostesses of the "Airline Team" that are now replacing pilots because it's cheaper.
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ThinkFast007 said:
Not saying that MD salaries wont be touched believe me. But everyones salary will go down. All the CRNA's/AA's/PA's that work for theses MD's arent gonna be paying big bucks if they arent making them. As well CRNA's are reimburst similar under medicare part B so CRNA salaries will drop as well. You cant believe everything you here. There was a MD on NPR the other day that is stocking up food b/c he think the avian bird flu is going to wipe out a third of the country. A few days latter a diff. MD came on and said that was BS.
Toughlife answer honestly how many AA's have you worked with and how often do you work with them presently. Id bet money maybe worked with them a handlefull of times at best. You replace CRNA's with AA's jargon is merely an attempt to controlll the market and not better, improve, or maintaint the safety of anesthesia care today. I have met a ton of AA's here recently on not gonna say the site but the biggest personal internet homepage site in the world. They are cool we have had discussions. These are your future AA's that you are rallying the troops to hire. I have met 13 in the recent weeks and only 3 of the 13 had any clinical experiece what so ever. 1 a PA to AA, 1 a Resp Therapist (nice guy) and one PT. The others we psychology grads, civil engineers, bio med engineers, elementary education.
Yeah im sure they get great didactics they better oh and Ill bring up the augument that you will use. They take org and bio chem and physics and calc. I took the first too whooptey freakin do. Really not so tough to memorize a crap load of pathways and functional groups. The experience gap here is huge and sorry 4 extra classes or the MCAT (which only 1 requires ) does not make up for never ever ever even speaking to or touching a pt besides grandpa when he got sick. So if you are cool with taking little johnny's 5th grade math teacher or someone that just graduated with a psyc. undergrad degree and putting them in the OR and letting them put your family member to sleep this being their first clinical exposure ever then you underscore the entire field of anesthesia all together and should be looked upon as a joke with power and controll insecurities.
I have mentioned taking classes with the MS-1 and 2's. Yeah some of these guys are smart as hell and maybe one day maybe doing surgery on me. But as 1st years these guys are clueless to anything that is not in a book except the ones with experience. The AA students with no experience are no different than the PA students that I took class with a few months ago. Never listened to a breath sound, looked a an ecg, seen a vial of drug much less pushed it and knew what the hell it did. The point i am getting at is that the experince gap to someone say with my ICU experience compared to an AA student with no clinical experience is huge and is not compensated by calc, organic, bio and physics sorry. Again if you are ok with letting little peters 3rd grade english teacher that went back and took 4-6 extra classes, took the princeton review for MCAT then studied for 6months and did well enough on the MCAT to get in. IF you are cool and comfortable with letting this peson put to sleep your mom, kid, wife what ever then you undermind your very profession that you strive to support and advance.
Really if you look at it this way, especially say from a cardiologist or surgery stand point the other thread where a student complained about not getting respect and people saying anesthesia wasnt real medicine almost makes more sense if looking if from their eyes. You guys compare the status of anesthesiologist to rads, surg (wanting similar teaching reimburstments) ect but then on the flip side allow a AA inexperienced green as baby poop to anything pt care oriented do much of what you guys do. How does it look when the surgeon says oh thanks for placing that epidural Mr. AA now what did you get ur undergrad degree in. Oh elementary ed, nice. Epidural placement must be real touch they think if this AA that was teaching 4th grade math 3yrs ago can now place a block.
We have been around a long time man. We are established, known, trusted by most in the clinical arena, documented, and respected by most. Promoting a less documented, many times less experienced provider to gain the advantage of power and control of the field only undermines the status of your entire profession and many surgeons especially those that have no AA's in their state have expressed this and have and will bat for us.
nitecap said:
the above statement is correct. that's why I dont believe everythign you say.
you asked ToughLife how many AA's he's worked wiht. I can tell you that I've worked with a good 15-20 in the rotations i've done (prolly more on the 15 side). Honestly, I couldnt tell the diff whether they wre a CRNA or a AA. so it's pretty funny how you are trying to put them down on here and are looking down on them. How do you like being in the hot seat for a change my friend? Feelings of job insecurity perhaps?
But getting back to the point. AAs in my opinion are also a lot more 'down to earth'. They dont ahve this mentality that a lot of CRNAs have from previously having to work on the floors UNDER docs. What I mean by that is, the nurse usually has thsi antagonistic attitude which stems from their inferiority complex of being insubordinate to MDs on the floor etc. They try to 'mk up ' for this in my opinion by ranting on about how they provide quality care, etc. Then they come into the OR and think they can run ship. Laughable at most. I mean come on dude, how many nurses do you see like this: Mary McHough RN, LPN, CRNA, MHA, DFSF, FIE, FASS, etc....
that just demonstrates clear insecurity. Again, your one med school class doesnt equate you to anywhere near a MD. If you realy think you''re the $hit go to med school. That is IF you can get in
til then, you can bitch and moan on here all you want, but you wont be seen as a EQUAL to an MD. You'll be seen as what you are, a NURSE. sorry to be the bearer of bad news. try checking this website out bro: http://www.accepted.com/medical/
tell us how it goes 👍
So. Yes, I think k
ThinkFast007 said:the above statement is correct. that's why I dont believe everythign you say.
you asked ToughLife how many AA's he's worked wiht. I can tell you that I've worked with a good 15-20 in the rotations i've done (prolly more on the 15 side). Honestly, I couldnt tell the diff whether they wre a CRNA or a AA. so it's pretty funny how you are trying to put them down on here and are looking down on them. How do you like being in the hot seat for a change my friend? Feelings of job insecurity perhaps?
But getting back to the point. AAs in my opinion are also a lot more 'down to earth'. They dont ahve this mentality that a lot of CRNAs have from previously having to work on the floors UNDER docs. What I mean by that is, the nurse usually has thsi antagonistic attitude which stems from their inferiority complex of being insubordinate to MDs on the floor etc. They try to 'mk up ' for this in my opinion by ranting on about how they provide quality care, etc. Then they come into the OR and think they can run ship. Laughable at most. I mean come on dude, how many nurses do you see like this: Mary McHough RN, LPN, CRNA, MHA, DFSF, FIE, FASS, etc....
that just demonstrates clear insecurity. Again, your one med school class doesnt equate you to anywhere near a MD. If you realy think you''re the $hit go to med school. That is IF you can get in
sorry to be the bearer of bad news. try checking this website out bro: http://www.accepted.com/medical/
tell us how it goes 👍
Never had a problem with MD staff during a 3 year stent in a Large CT recovery room. I find if you are a hard worker, go a good job, you earn the respect and trust of say that CT surgeon to care for his post TAAA that is sick as shiznit. And I have never said taking class with med students equates me to a MD so dont put words in my mouth man. Oh and you like AA's b/c they are more down to earth. Again a narrow minded generalization of the entire CRNA work force. I find MD's that are more down to earth way cooler and enjoy working with them more too. So what. I think you may need to come down to earth a little buddy. Again I do not want to be a MD. As a Nurse Anesthetist I will practice nursing gladly and get compensated more than the MD that I goto for seasonal allergy meds does. I will be doing something more enjoyable, make a decent salary and have a really flexible job hopefully. I see you med students and residents all the time say a big seller on anesthesia is lifestyle, good salaries, not on call 24/7 usually, ability to raise a family for the women MD's ect ect. The life style is similar for CRNA's though the salaries are lower of course. I have already made a 20 year salary comparission of the CRNA vs. the Anesthesiologist. Do a search for it and you tell me if my descision is that dumb being that if you enter med schoool and I CRNA school on the same day it will take you almost over 20yrs to catch up to me in amount earned, not to mention investments made. It merely makes no finacial sense to go to med school now. Possibly if I would have graduated undergrad at 21yo or so. Then maybe I can see but now its not worth it. When I can have similar life styles ect doing what I am doing. Sorry I dont need a title to be a bada$$ man.
nitecap said:fair enough.ThinkFast007 said:the above statement is correct. that's why I dont believe everythign you say.
you asked ToughLife how many AA's he's worked wiht. I can tell you that I've worked with a good 15-20 in the rotations i've done (prolly more on the 15 side). Honestly, I couldnt tell the diff whether they wre a CRNA or a AA. so it's pretty funny how you are trying to put them down on here and are looking down on them. How do you like being in the hot seat for a change my friend? Feelings of job insecurity perhaps?
But getting back to the point. AAs in my opinion are also a lot more 'down to earth'. They dont ahve this mentality that a lot of CRNAs have from previously having to work on the floors UNDER docs. What I mean by that is, the nurse usually has thsi antagonistic attitude which stems from their inferiority complex of being insubordinate to MDs on the floor etc. They try to 'mk up ' for this in my opinion by ranting on about how they provide quality care, etc. Then they come into the OR and think they can run ship. Laughable at most. I mean come on dude, how many nurses do you see like this: Mary McHough RN, LPN, CRNA, MHA, DFSF, FIE, FASS, etc....
that just demonstrates clear insecurity. Again, your one med school class doesnt equate you to anywhere near a MD. If you realy think you''re the $hit go to med school. That is IF you can get in
sorry to be the bearer of bad news. try checking this website out bro: http://www.accepted.com/medical/
tell us how it goes 👍
Never had a problem with MD staff during a 3 year stent in a Large CT recovery room. I find if you are a hard worker, go a good job, you earn the respect and trust of say that CT surgeon to care for his post TAAA that is sick as shiznit. And I have never said taking class with med students equates me to a MD so dont put words in my mouth man. Oh and you like AA's b/c they are more down to earth. Again a narrow minded generalization of the entire CRNA work force. I find MD's that are more down to earth way cooler and enjoy working with them more too. So what. I think you may need to come down to earth a little buddy. Again I do not want to be a MD. As a Nurse Anesthetist I will practice nursing gladly and get compensated more than the MD that I goto for seasonal allergy meds does. I will be doing something more enjoyable, make a decent salary and have a really flexible job hopefully. I see you med students and residents all the time say a big seller on anesthesia is lifestyle, good salaries, not on call 24/7 usually, ability to raise a family for the women MD's ect ect. The life style is similar for CRNA's though the salaries are lower of course. I have already made a 20 year salary comparission of the CRNA vs. the Anesthesiologist. Do a search for it and you tell me if my descision is that dumb being that if you enter med schoool and I CRNA school on the same day it will take you almost over 20yrs to catch up to me in amount earned, not to mention investments made. It merely makes no finacial sense to go to med school now. Possibly if I would have graduated undergrad at 21yo or so. Then maybe I can see but now its not worth it. When I can have similar life styles ect doing what I am doing. Sorry I dont need a title to be a bada$$ man.
i guess i fall into the having graduated from med school at the young ripe age that you say. so yes, it's more beneficial to me....not really going to check up on your '20 yr plan' at this plan. because to me, we're comparing apples and oranges. there's no feasible way to compare an anesthesiologist with a CRNA in terms of the big picture, even financially. Sure you guys occasionally keep the stool warm for us, but that's it.
hey, it is what it is. some of us like AAs. I'll change that, MANY of us like AAs. Perhaps we're biased. But we all have our biases to an extent and that's the way that most med students that i've met goign into anesthesia have felt. Why is that? Well likely because of the experience either WE or very close friends of ours have had with CRNAs. So, there you have it.
Again, yes, it is a lifestyle specialty (of course, as doctors, or soon to be docs, ...we also care about the compasionate, intellectual and ART part of medicine). Of course, it's financially rewarding as well.
Again, I think the new 'breed' of anesthesiologists will certainly be setting the scale higher. if you read other threads on this forum, you'll see that this 'new' breed is certainly more motivated, smart, and assertive. So let's see how things pan out.
miamidc said:
The one thing I don't like about McCain is how he does seem to pander to the media. Then again, he also panders to the greater public opinion (not that the media and greater public opinion are one in the same), which I guess is what democracy is all about.
Personally, I'd like to see Newt Gingrich in the seat, but I doubt that could happen. I'll settle for McCain, even though I think he's too much of a "politician". lol
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miamidc said:
He's got to show something other than being a reasonably well spoken black guy that is considered tall and decent looking. In my opinion, he hasn't really proven himself to be a true force in the democratic party. Then again, the democtatic party doesn't really seem to have a true agenda of their own, so I suspect it would be tough for a neophyte to make a name for himself during these times.
Fair enough. Lets let it pan. But i reserve judgements for me and only me. I dont care if 25 circulating nurses, CRNA's, Anesthesia techs and med students said you were a dick and a horible anesthesiologist Im gonna make the judgement for myself, give you the benefit of the doubt until I have a reason not to, and not judge your entire profession on your supposed ineffectiveness. The old he said she said that this person did this to my uncle's wife, sisters husband you is an anesthesiologist so lets lobby against the CRNA's is highschool. You hate our profession before working with more than a handful of CRNA's, before actually understanding how things work in the real world away from your academic anesthesia residency place of training, you place judgements based on forum debates and here say and opinions and complaints without assessing the situation yourself. I wish we could tally up all the complaints vs the total number of CRNA's that work for or with Anesthesiologist and the total number of anesthetics given in these settings every year. If CRNA's are so arogant ad cocky and so not down to earth why are most CRNA's employed by MD groups and claim very high job satisfaction. I just think you should reserve such harsh judgement until you really get experience in working with CRNA's and you personally know a few that arent just acquantences. Believe it or not CRNA anesthesiologist friends do exist and pretty prevalent too. As your new breed of MD's finish residency they will be met by a newer breed of CRNA's as well. Really the 2 can get along and will get along and will deliver safe care and will make money together but both are very head strong people I find. Of course everyone knows surgeons are aggressive but I find anesthesiologist and CRNA's to be equally aggressive, very impatient and anal, want things done yesterday, think they are at the top of each of their respected profession us at the top of all nurses, you up their in the MD rankings. Not to mention greater than 40% of todays CRNA's and graduating SRNA's are men. When you put 2 pit bulls in a pin wanting the same peice of meat hostility will arise for sure but really when looking at the big picture and stop being swayed by here say and actually assess things for yourself the state of both professions is pretty good, both growing and advancing.
A poster over on allnurses.com said an attending a friend of his that is a anesthesiologist and AA employer said for him not to go the AA route go the CRNA route. Claims for the most part their are obvious differences in the 2 professions and that most CRNA's were more independent when beginning their careers and that AA's starting out were more robotic in their practice.
A poster over on allnurses.com said an attending a friend of his that is a anesthesiologist and AA employer said for him not to go the AA route go the CRNA route. Claims for the most part their are obvious differences in the 2 professions and that most CRNA's were more independent when beginning their careers and that AA's starting out were more robotic in their practice.
SolidGold00 said:
Everyone complains about how the U.S. is leaving our manufacturing base out to dry. We're losing manufacturing jobs to places like Mexico, India, and China by the hundreds of thousands each year. This has traditionally been the backbone of the middle class.
Many people wonder how the U.S. can compete in a global economy, and even in a future war for that matter, if we no longer "make stuff". Personally, I tend to see their point. After all, it was the automotive infrastructure in Detroit and in other places that allowed the U.S. to rapidly ramp up our war making capacity in order to defeat Nazi Germany and a Japan that wanted to enslave much of Asia.
So, what are we to do? We are a free trade, non-protectionist, market economy nation. How would we be able to maintain influence in the world when we may soon be held hostage by countries that manufacture most of our goods? How could we defend ourselves when we no longer have the manufacturing infrastructer that has allowed us to meet our nations defense needs in the past?? Sure, we could isolate ourselves and initiate quotas and tariffs on foreign products. But, is that really the way we want to go? Look at Western Europe. That's what they do. But, it's just a band-aid. So, what ARE we to do?
The answer is very simple. You control the energy. But, it takes a strong individual to understand that we don't live in a perfect world in which we all just "get along". It's not the way it works. And if anyone really believes that the evil Dick Chaney is motivated by greed and money, failing heart and all, they are simple naive. He's already a multi millionare. But, he's also a patriot that does what he believes is in the long term strategic best interests of his country. And he's in the know.
Long before 9/11, the Taliban government blasted away a thousand year old statue of budda that was carved into an Afghan mountainside. For what you ask? Because "there is no god but Allah" comes the answer.
How about China's record of human rights? And you still think we can all just get along, and that political and military influence doesn't matter?? You're a fool, if you think that. I have to call a spade a spade.
So we go to war with a country that imports whatever. We then sanction that nation and hurt their ecomony. Then we either find another seller or begin manufactoring that product here again. Yes I understand that the middle class has been hurt especially loosing manufactoring jobs ect. But a company is going to go where they can get the best quality worker for the cheapest. Thats just business. Happens here in my complex as it is about 90% mexican workers building it. They work hard, do quality work and for less money. So that leads us to a few theorys.
1-We should increase education since these once factory workers cant get jobs we should educate them so they are running import and exportation of that product or its peices, assembly, inspections. Make these folks college grad business men, engineers, project managers ect ect.
2-We should strengthen relationships with all nations. Im all for increased trade with south america it will decrease the amount of money we send to China every year.
3-American companies should start building better quality stuff. The automobile industry is an example. Not gonna spend 50g's on a tricked out lincoln navigator that is gonna fall to pieces is less than 5 yrs when I can spend that same 50 on a lexus landcruiser tricked out rolling on yokohamma 22's that I can freaking sell at 150 thoussand miles and still get a buck for it.
4-The american employee has to realize sorry there are no more outrageous pensions ect ect. That day is over. Be fiscally responsible and save and invest your money. That brown or yellow guy has no clue what a pension is and doesnt give a faq.
5- Education, education, education, education - I think we should tax energy companies and those that are importing things that were and could be made here and dump it all into education and programs to get lazt a$$ people off the a$$ and into the class room or job place and quit freaking complaining that all these foriegners are taking all the jobs ya heard me lil daddy.
Louisiana is a prime example. They are sending immagration officers to job sites and freaking taking into custody the very folks that are rebuilding the faqin state. What *****s. Hell no, new orleans peeps want to rebuild, not when they have free rent in luxury apts in houston. A yr long free freaking ride. But complain that the hispanics are taking the jobs and send officers out there to detain them but agree that the work is unpleasant and you dont want to do it.
I see more taco stands on bourbon st in the future. Lucky dog is in for a little competition.
1-We should increase education since these once factory workers cant get jobs we should educate them so they are running import and exportation of that product or its peices, assembly, inspections. Make these folks college grad business men, engineers, project managers ect ect.
2-We should strengthen relationships with all nations. Im all for increased trade with south america it will decrease the amount of money we send to China every year.
3-American companies should start building better quality stuff. The automobile industry is an example. Not gonna spend 50g's on a tricked out lincoln navigator that is gonna fall to pieces is less than 5 yrs when I can spend that same 50 on a lexus landcruiser tricked out rolling on yokohamma 22's that I can freaking sell at 150 thoussand miles and still get a buck for it.
4-The american employee has to realize sorry there are no more outrageous pensions ect ect. That day is over. Be fiscally responsible and save and invest your money. That brown or yellow guy has no clue what a pension is and doesnt give a faq.
5- Education, education, education, education - I think we should tax energy companies and those that are importing things that were and could be made here and dump it all into education and programs to get lazt a$$ people off the a$$ and into the class room or job place and quit freaking complaining that all these foriegners are taking all the jobs ya heard me lil daddy.
Louisiana is a prime example. They are sending immagration officers to job sites and freaking taking into custody the very folks that are rebuilding the faqin state. What *****s. Hell no, new orleans peeps want to rebuild, not when they have free rent in luxury apts in houston. A yr long free freaking ride. But complain that the hispanics are taking the jobs and send officers out there to detain them but agree that the work is unpleasant and you dont want to do it.
I see more taco stands on bourbon st in the future. Lucky dog is in for a little competition.
very interesting point. Never looked at it this way at all.cfdavid said:
Also, what do you guys think? I was listening to NPR (yet again)...one of the caller was saying htat the senate should break the bill they're trying to pass into TWO different bills. One, to close borders. The other is to deport/'tk care' of the illegal immigrants. They were saying that if it's broken into two, at the bare minimum we could get them to close the borders. I thought this was a pretty darn good idea.
Also, has anyone thought about this. The bill currently states they want to build a fence/wall over 700 miles b/w the mexican/american border. Given past h/o in recent years, anyone ever think about WHO the ppl are that are going to build this 'fence'. IF recent governmental jobs predict anything, i woudl say we'd have a hard chance getting these guys to build fences to block out 'their own' kind. I just thought this would be an interesting twist.
cfdavid said:
Obama has been in national office for only 2 yrs. Not really enough time to become a huge national force, yet he is pretty prominent on national talk shows and nearly always makes a good showing. Unfortunately the Democratic party will probably have him trained to be a boring, Republicrat with no apparent opinions by the time he wants to run for president...
nitecap said:
This is your only one post that I 100% agree with.
nitecap said:
Not sure how we could be arguing. I agree with pretty much everything you just said. But, making nice with other nations only works with nations that share many common values. The world is still very diverse, and different cultures have different ideas on what it means to negotiate. I recently read an article on how the various sectarian groups in Iraq view negotiations as a zero sum game. It's like it's not part of their agenda to strive for a win win solution for everyone. So, I imagine that would get old very fast.
Also, Americans don't have a monopoly on greed. Greed, and power drive the direction of most countries. So, there's a reason that we all just don't get along. Therefore, it's important to be able to assert influence in the world. Otherwise, others will be asserting influence on us.
Also, being from Detroit, I must stick up for our auto companies. True, the 70's and 80's were a shame in terms of resting on our laurels w/r/t quality. But, most people aren't aware of the major strides US car companies have made in quality over the last decade. Yeah, there's still work to do, but they're building some good stuff these days. I've had great experiences with Pontiac.
ThinkFast007 said:
lol. That's an interesting point. I do have a LOT of respect for the Mexican immigrant (or migrant). I've worked side by side these guys on landscaping jobs and in construction. But, not all Mexican immigrants are here illegaly. I'd agree that we should find a way to improve the efficiency of our immigration laws. This should be based on need though.
It's important to make citizenship accessible to those that want to come here to work (again, provided that their skills are needed, since we don't want to just ramp up our unemployment). On the flip side, we don't want to marginalize what it means to be an American citizen by cheapening our citizenship standards.
Regardless, it's very important to start taxing these people (I say that as a Republican. lol) because we need these people to start contributing to the coffers since they are still using the infrastructure and services we have here (i.e. healthcare). And without them paying in, they are getting a free ride at the expense of every other American citizen.
starsop93 said:
I never said he wasn't in the business field. I simply stated that those in the know in Washington realize that it's in our best interests to have more control of the energy supply. It's strategic in so many ways, and would allow us to continue being influential in a world in which it seems everyone wants nukes.
What leverage do we have on China right now? Not much. But, on the other hand, China and India (not saying they're enemies) are consuming massive amounts of energy and raw materials. So, it helps us if we can have a better foothold in oil. Then perhaps they might be better persuaded to work with us against a nuclear Iran.
Also, in a time when many of our more traditional strengths in manufacturing are going out the window and fast, it seems that we are "exporting" less and less. And simple economics indicates that's a recipe for disaster and can't really be sustained if a nation wants to enjoy relative prosperity (i.e. clean water, maintained highways, a government able to fund research etc.). These are things we enjoy.
So, what is wrong with our energy companies exporting their expertise. Germans and Japanese export their expertise here when they build new factories in the south. Often, they will bring upper management and skilled workers here. These are good employment opportunities for their people.
I think it's a good thing when we export engineers and skilled tradesmen to other areas of the world. It's good for the stockholders and for the engineers, mechanics, pipefitters, and laborers of the U.S. Why should we allow a French company to outbid us on such opportunities?
Who cares if Dick Cheney, while in the private sector, sought out such bids? Can you blame him? Those are good oppotunities for Americans, especially in an era in which many of our traditional exporting strengths are being marginalized in this global labor pool.
cfdavid said:
I was reading the April edition of Forbes yesterday which has an article titled 'Alien Nation" obviously dealing with the illegal immigration issue.
In it they allude to the tax contributions made by illegal immigrants.
According to surveys conducted by professor Douglas Massey, a sociologist from Princeton, "a surprising 62% have taxes withheld and 66% pay social security taxes. In 2004, illegal aliens contributed $7 billion to social security and $1.5 billion to medicare"
Granted it may not be enough to cover what they may be using in social services but it's a start. Also since this are low wage workers, you cannot expect them to contribute as you and I will. However, I think the gov't needs to find a way to harness all the tax revenue that could be generated from them, while giving them a chance to work and be productive.
Are you kidding me? Energy control is the key? So you support invading non-provoking countries, wasting billions of dollars and thousands of lives, to control their oil? You're a *****...sorry. Think before you talk next time.
cfdavid said:
L
leopold stotch
ThinkFast007 said:
someone's been watching mind of mencia
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toughlife said:
How does one have taxes withheld without a valid social security number? You can't get one if you're here illegally. And I'm sorry - they're simply not contributing to state and federal taxes that actually pay for the services they use.
Nobody talks about invading Mexico. Before you all erupt, think about what would happen if the government even started talking about that plan of action.
-Mexican government would shut down the boarder and handle it their dirty style, not our "touch a criminal he can sue you" American style. The illegal flow which is the only concern would stop. Who is against citizens from Mexico or other parts of Central America legally coming here for work or citizenship? Nobody on either side of the political spectrum from my understanding is opposed to more people coming here becuase they want to find jobs and be productive.
-If we did invade nobody can say the Mexican citizens would be worse off, the government down their is corrupt as any place in the middle east or eastern europe.
Yes, I know it will never happen. But it would be interesting to see discussed as an option. Heck, they have lots of oil too.
Don't hate on me for bringing up a different solution to the problem. I am not wanting to bomb any villages or anything like that. Scaring the Mexican government into respecting the boarder would be nice though.
-Mexican government would shut down the boarder and handle it their dirty style, not our "touch a criminal he can sue you" American style. The illegal flow which is the only concern would stop. Who is against citizens from Mexico or other parts of Central America legally coming here for work or citizenship? Nobody on either side of the political spectrum from my understanding is opposed to more people coming here becuase they want to find jobs and be productive.
-If we did invade nobody can say the Mexican citizens would be worse off, the government down their is corrupt as any place in the middle east or eastern europe.
Yes, I know it will never happen. But it would be interesting to see discussed as an option. Heck, they have lots of oil too.
Don't hate on me for bringing up a different solution to the problem. I am not wanting to bomb any villages or anything like that. Scaring the Mexican government into respecting the boarder would be nice though.
jwk said:
Ever heard of a TIN (taxpayer ID #)?
From the IRS website:
What is an ITIN?
An Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) is a tax processing number issued by the Internal Revenue Service. It is a nine-digit number that always begins with the number 9 and has a 7 or 8 in the fourth digit, example 9XX-7X-XXXX.
IRS issues ITINs to individuals who are required to have a U.S. taxpayer identification number but who do not have, and are not eligible to obtain a Social Security Number (SSN) from the Social Security Administration (SSA).
ITINs are issued regardless of immigration status because both resident and nonresident aliens may have U.S. tax return and payment responsibilities under the Internal Revenue Code.
Individuals must have a filing requirement and file a valid federal income tax return to receive an ITIN, unless they meet an exception.
What is an ITIN used for?
ITINs are for federal tax reporting only, and are not intended to serve any other purpose. An ITIN does not authorize work in the U.S. or provide eligibility for Social Security benefits or the Earned Income Tax Credit. ITINs are not valid identification outside the tax system.
IRS issues ITINs to help individuals comply with the U.S. tax laws, and to provide a means to efficiently process and account for tax returns and payments for those not eligible for Social Security Numbers.
Who needs an ITIN?
IRS issues ITINs to foreign nationals and others who have federal tax reporting or filing requirements and do not qualify for SSNs. A non-resident alien individual not eligible for an SSN, who is required to file a U.S. tax return only to claim a refund of tax under the provisions of a U.S. tax treaty, needs an ITIN.
Examples of individuals who need ITINs include:
Non-resident alien filing a U.S. tax return and not eligible for an SSN
U.S. resident alien (based on days present in the United States) filing a U.S. tax return and not eligible for an SSN
Dependent or spouse of a U.S. citizen/resident alien
Dependent or spouse of a non-resident alien visa holder
There you go. Hope that helps you understand the magnitude of the problem and the amount of loopholes available for people to get employed without legit papers.
jwk said:
So when they shop for food, coronas, jalapenos, gasoline, etc where does the sales tax collections end up?
When they work, they have state/federal income tax collected from their paychecks. Where does that money end up?
I am not excusing their breaking the law, I am just saying they do contribute but, as I stated in my previous post, it probably is not enough to cover what they use.
Also, I find it ironic that a lot of americans complain about these people and it is those same americans who hire them to do their roof on the house, mow their lawns, clean their houses, wipe their kid's ass.
Just to prove a point, when I did my ER rotation, the dept. Chairman was bragging to me about how he saved a ton of money by hiring 12 mexicans to put a new roof on his home. He was so happy that it took only 5 hours to remove the old roof and get the new roof on.
Total labor cost: $600 bucks! He paid each one $10/hr.
tell me americans don't love that shizznit? Who are we kidding? Now get twelve tall, blond, blue eyed dudes to do the same and I will shut up.
toughlife said:
i agree with most of what you said on here Tough. But the above statement is not necessarily true. For example your ER doc that paid these cats $10/hr. That was probably cash. The gov't doesnt see any of that unless, these workers go to the nearest store and buy some coronas,etc (which will be taxed at that point).
But in terms of salary. Manyof these 'illegal' immigrants can work for cash. its a win win situation for both the employer and the worker. The employer gets out of having to prvide the worker with benefits, ins, etc. The worker gets pure cash thats not taxed.
BTW folks, dont get me wrong. I'm all for IMMIGRANTS of any nationality...JUST AS LONG AS THEY ARE LEGAL (as my parents were).
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