White Coat Ceremony Memories

[OrthoTraumaMD]

I was more so getting at the point of seeing how many current students parents are physicians themselves. Not saying its a bad thing, was just surprised

Most physicians are not insanely rich....
To me insanely rich is millionaire. Physicians don’t make that kind of money unless they are the department chair or have crazy side hustles or investments. But you regular Joe Schmo doc will never see “insane” money.


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[965978]

Most physicians are not insanely rich....
To me insanely rich is millionaire. Physicians don’t make that kind of money unless they are the department chair or have crazy side hustles or investments. But you regular Joe Schmo doc will never see “insane” money.


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What if you have two physicians married to each other in a remote area that pays considerably more and has lower malpractice premium and they file taxes jointly.....

 

[dr_kateb]

I’d imagine having a parent that’s a doctor would make it a bit easier. You have someone to shadow which isn’t easy to find. Could have connections to some research labs or other stuff. Doctors also make a lot more than average so their premed kids probably don’t have to worry about loans as much, which makes it easier. Life’s not fair, but at least it isn’t business or idk, NFL coaching where connections are all that matters.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

What if you have two physicians married to each other in a remote area that pays considerably more and has lower malpractice premium and they file taxes jointly.....

It's not what you make, it's how much you spend. I know specialists who cant retire because they didnt save enough along the way. Best to spend less than you make no matter what stage of your career.

 

[Detective SnowBucket]

Most physicians are not insanely rich....
To me insanely rich is millionaire. Physicians don’t make that kind of money unless they are the department chair or have crazy side hustles or investments. But you regular Joe Schmo doc will never see “insane” money.


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*says the orthopedic surgeon*. jk

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

What if you have two physicians married to each other in a remote area that pays considerably more and has lower malpractice premium and they file taxes jointly.....

Maybe if they are both surgeons...


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[Isoval]

I enjoyed mine, but I feel like my school really f***ed up.

They sized us all for coats during orientation, ordered them, and then, about a week before the ceremony, we get told that "the supplier had issues, there's a national white coat shortage, so here are some s***ty white coats that are in S/M/L/XL sizes based on your numbered-sizing and don't fit anyone and are of objectively lower quality than the ones you were supposed to get, but be happy you got one at all and we'll see you on Friday!". For the record, I could order tens or hundreds of the ones from our regular supplier on Amazon or any number of other sellers. I don't buy 'national white coat shortage' for a second. I literally went down to the medical district the next day and bought one from a scrub store, made by our original provider, in my exact size, with no hassle whatsoever and had it embroidered on my own.

They then proceeded to horridly mispronounce the names of several of my friends, many of whom emailed the announcers very explicit phonetic pronunciations of their names.

We also had hotdogs and hamburgers. Yay.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I enjoyed mine, but I feel like my school really f***ed up.

They sized us all for coats during orientation, ordered them, and then, about a week before the ceremony, we get told that "the supplier had issues, there's a national white coat shortage, so here are some s***ty white coats that are in S/M/L/XL sizes based on your numbered-sizing and don't fit anyone and are of objectively lower quality than the ones you were supposed to get, but be happy you got one at all and we'll see you on Friday!". For the record, I could order tens or hundreds of the ones from our regular supplier on Amazon or any number of other sellers. I don't buy 'national white coat shortage' for a second. I literally went down to the medical district the next day and bought one from a scrub store, made by our original provider, in my exact size, with no hassle whatsoever and had it embroidered on my own.

They then proceeded to horridly mispronounce the names of several of my friends, many of whom emailed the announcers very explicit phonetic pronunciations of their names.

We also had hotdogs and hamburgers. Yay.

Yikes that’s craptastic.

 

[Isoval]

Yikes that’s craptastic.

It was a little heartbreaking. I was wildly looking forward to it, and some of that shone through anyways (hence why I say I enjoyed it), but this was a real punch to the throat.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

It was a little heartbreaking. I was wildly looking forward to it, and some of that shone through anyways (hence why I say I enjoyed it), but this was a real punch to the throat.

Yeah I’m really looking forward to mine and hope it doesn’t suck.

 

[Avulse]

The imposter syndrome was real during that, but I looked at it as a celebration of all the hard work it took for me to get there. I wasn't one of those applicants that DEFINITELY knew I was going to be accepted, and I was happy to just be there in general. Not to be cheesy but I couldn't believe it when we started reading the oath, like I was actually living something out that I had been dreaming about for a long time. When you have yours, enjoy it!

 

[Detective SnowBucket]

It was a little heartbreaking. I was wildly looking forward to it, and some of that shone through anyways (hence why I say I enjoyed it), but this was a real punch to the throat.

Between "national white coat shortage" and Hotdogs & Hamburgers, it sounds more like they were just a little short on money at the moment...

 

[raiderette]

I would have been happy to skip it, but I had ill relatives who came in for it. My grandfather was so very proud. He probably won't make it to graduation, so I am glad he got to see it, even if I hadn't actually done anything.

 

[SouthernGent]

Hated going to mine (Did it to appease the family). Was so strung out on sleep deprivation I got lost and disoriented driving back the 2 miles to my apartment after the ceremony. Almost ended up in a ditch.Not a fun time.

 

[Medic741]

Hi! So those of you in med school, what memories did you have from your white coat ceremony? I remember at my friend's ceremony his mom broke out into tears!

That ours was cancelled and now we get coats after second year. Annnnd that now my family is coming to stay for a weekend in April so. Wish it weren’t mandatory.

 

[PA_dud3]

That ours was cancelled and now we get coats after second year. Annnnd that now my family is coming to stay for a weekend in April so. Wish it weren’t mandatory.

Another fan of the 4077th I see!

 

[Pagan FutureDoc]

Most physicians are not insanely rich....
To me insanely rich is millionaire. Physicians don’t make that kind of money unless they are the department chair or have crazy side hustles or investments. But you regular Joe Schmo doc will never see “insane” money.


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A millionaire is just someone with a million dollars or more in assets. It’s well off to be sure but it’s by no means rich. A nice house, a couple nice cars (nothing super fancy on either) and you are easily over halfway there.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

A millionaire is just someone with a million dollars or more in assets. It’s well off to be sure but it’s by no means rich. A nice house, a couple nice cars (nothing super fancy on either) and you are easily over halfway there.

Let’s go with multi millionaire then. I meant more the salary not the assets.


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[mmmcdowe]

The white coat ceremony ultimately is what you make of it, be it barrier or threshold. The real party is in your head, or not.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

I can't believe that pre-meds and med students have lost the appreciation for the little things in life

I mean the white coat ceremony was a nice experience, but graduation was waaaayyyy more awesome.

I'm just more appreciative about ceremonies that are commensurate to my achievement. Although white coat ceremonies are a nice gesture, I quite literally have done to earn it except gain a medical school acceptance (which I was much more excited about).

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

except gain a medical school acceptance

Which took a long time and a lot of work (for most people).

 

[CherryRedDracul]

Which took a long time and a lot of work (for most people).

Agreed. But as far as my own perspective, all that hard work culminated into medical school acceptance. Once I was accepted, I considered it to be a whole new journey, essentially a start from scratch, so I guess I suffered from a variant of impostor syndrome.

Others may see the white coat ceremony as a celebration for all the preceding hard work, which is certainly a valid perspective. It just wasn't mine.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Agreed. But as far as my own perspective, all that hard work culminated into medical school acceptance. Once I was accepted, I considered it to be a whole new journey, essentially a start from scratch, so I guess I suffered from a variant of impostor syndrome.

Others may see the white coat ceremony as a celebration for all the preceding hard work, which is certainly a valid perspective. It just wasn't mine.

Fair enough.

 

[stickgirl390]

I was surprised how many students were late to my white coat. It was a lot, easily 20.

 

[Gilakend]

Most physicians are not insanely rich....
To me insanely rich is millionaire. Physicians don’t make that kind of money unless they are the department chair or have crazy side hustles or investments. But you regular Joe Schmo doc will never see “insane” money.


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While I definitely understand where you’re coming from, I think for some students who might be coming from areas or situations where it isn’t common to have enough money for things you need (let alone things you want) going into a room where the majority of parents in it are making 100k or more a year subjectively seems like everyone is insanely rich.

 

[FindMeOnTheLinks]

I enjoyed mine, but I feel like my school really f***ed up.

They sized us all for coats during orientation, ordered them, and then, about a week before the ceremony, we get told that "the supplier had issues, there's a national white coat shortage, so here are some s***ty white coats that are in S/M/L/XL sizes based on your numbered-sizing and don't fit anyone and are of objectively lower quality than the ones you were supposed to get, but be happy you got one at all and we'll see you on Friday!". For the record, I could order tens or hundreds of the ones from our regular supplier on Amazon or any number of other sellers. I don't buy 'national white coat shortage' for a second. I literally went down to the medical district the next day and bought one from a scrub store, made by our original provider, in my exact size, with no hassle whatsoever and had it embroidered on my own.

They then proceeded to horridly mispronounce the names of several of my friends, many of whom emailed the announcers very explicit phonetic pronunciations of their names.

We also had hotdogs and hamburgers. Yay.

This is exactly what happened at our white coat ceremony lol. They blamed it on a delay of our coats shipping from China because of some crazy storm in the pacific

 

[Isoval]

While I definitely understand where you’re coming from, I think for some students who might be coming from areas or situations where it isn’t common to have enough money for things you need (let alone things you want) going into a room where the majority of parents in it are making 100k or more a year subjectively seems like everyone is insanely rich.

(more of a reply to the guy you quoted but too lazy to scroll up)

I’d argue most physicians are able to purchase a higher-end luxury car or two without too much heartache. Not a Ferrari, mind you, but more in the range of a Jaguar or Maserati. This is the kind of wealth you’d have making 200k+/year. This doesn’t qualify as “insanely rich”, to be sure, but many, many physicians will find themselves in the top couple percentiles of wealth.

Millionaire is a very low bar today. Many, maybe even most, upper-middle class families have enough in assets to go over the million mark.

 

[KnuxNole]

Between "national white coat shortage" and Hotdogs & Hamburgers, it sounds more like they were just a little short on money at the moment...

Yeah they should have went with a fast food buffet instead

 

[puahate]

Yeah they should have went with a fast food buffet instead

Clemson football seem to like it. So it should be good enough for med students

 

[OtisO]

They had pasta selections.
DEAD.

Got a nice artistic staining of spaghetti sauce? cool

 

[OtisO]

my coat was too big and i looked awful. trying to socialize with classmates i never met was awkward.

it was nice because my mom was really supportive through the whole getting into medical school thing.

I feel this; I hope mine fits good. Look good to feel good!

 

[Dr. Stalker]

They pronounced my name properly. As the children of immigrants my name is complex. I was flattered and impressed they got it . They'll be getting a handsome alumni donation for that move

 

[Deecee2DO]

It would mean more if PAs, NPs, Pharmacists, nurses, etc didn’t also wear a white coat. PA and pharmacy students get a white coat ceremony as well.

It lost its symbolism. It doesnt keep me warm anyway.

Yup and don't forget DPTs. DPTs who wear steths and call themselves Dr. So-and-so. Probably the most annoying of them all

 

[DrMcCoyDO]

It took a long time and the food wasn’t that good.

You guys got food?! Lucky.

 

[965978]

I’m not a guy, but I assume you were referring to me.
And as I said before, by millionaire I mean salary, not overall assets. By age 60, a good percentage of Americans will have one million or more in assets simply due to accumulation. I mean more million on a yearly basis.
I don’t personally know any physicians who just drop on a Maserati. A lease for that is 3 grand a month, and with other expenses most physicians would think twice.
It’s also very dependent on place. In a place like Boston or nyc (where I grew up), 200K is nothing due to the astronomical rent. In Manhattan, i used to rent a studio for 4000/month.


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Is your avatar composed of a few trees? All this time I thought it was a microscope slide of some kind of tissue.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Is your avatar composed of a few trees? All this time I thought it was a microscope slide of some kind of tissue xD

You were right the first time.
It is a picture from a 1957 article by Trueta. It is the blood supply of the infant femoral head, taken from, yes, a slice of a dead baby. Morbid, but the resemblance to a treeline makes it beautiful in my eyes. That article is one of the classics of orthopaedics, and forms the basis of much of our approach to hip fractures, since blood supply is very important in those injuries.


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[Detective SnowBucket]

I’m not a guy, but I assume you were referring to me.
And as I said before, by millionaire I mean salary, not overall assets. By age 60, a good percentage of Americans will have one million or more in assets simply due to accumulation. I mean more million on a yearly basis.
I don’t personally know any physicians who just drop on a Maserati. A lease for that is 3 grand a month, and with other expenses most physicians would think twice.
It’s also very dependent on place. In a place like Boston or nyc (where I grew up), 200K is nothing due to the astronomical rent. In Manhattan, i used to rent a studio for 4000/month.


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No intent to bash you but you did get me thinking so I put the estimated numbers into an auto financing calculator. Just an uneducated google search brought back ~$500,000 avg total compensation for ortho across america. Based on the calculator above, this salary with the recommended monthly payment of ~10% of gross monthly income towards car payment says you can afford $175,000 worth of car. With this range, you can afford every *new* 2019 Maserati model, with room to spare. What you may not be able to afford on that salary is a new Lamborghini or most models of Ferrari. Like I said, no intent to bash your comment and your advice is still valid (as the vast majority of physicians do not have anywhere near that income). I just took your comment too literally and wanted to know.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

No intent to bash you but you did get me thinking so I put the estimated numbers into an auto financing calculator. Just an uneducated google search brought back ~$500,000 avg total compensation for ortho across america. Based on the calculator above, this salary with the recommended monthly payment of ~10% of gross monthly income towards car payment says you can afford $175,000 worth of car. With this range, you can afford every *new* 2019 Maserati model, with room to spare. What you may not be able to afford on that salary is a new Lamborghini or most models of Ferrari. Like I said, no intent to bash your comment and your advice is still valid (as the vast majority of physicians do not have anywhere near that income). I just took your comment too literally and wanted to know.

With my tax rate being 40%, I don’t take home that kind of money. 500,000 is pretax.
And I would never buy a car anyway. Leasing is the way to go.
All that said, most of my Orthopedic colleagues drive SUVs or reasonable sedans. Maybe the private practice guys can afford to splurge, but my academic colleagues do not drive sports cars.

 

[965978]

With my tax rate being 40%, I don’t take home that kind of money. 500,000 is pretax.
And I would never buy a car anyway. Leasing is the way to go.
All that said, most of my Orthopedic colleagues drive SUVs or reasonable sedans. Maybe the private practice guys can afford to splurge, but my academic colleagues do not drive sports cars.

Something tells me that @Detective SnowBucket has never lived alone and realized the truth about taxes and bills and how they impact finances.

 

[Campana]

I am super looking forward to the white coat ceremony - it's on the family calendar (ie - my kids, not my parents). I'm glad it'll be before my kids are back in school, but I'd probably let them miss a day for it even if it's moved later.

My acceptance into medical school is something the entire family has had to pitch in for and my kids will be sooooo excited to see me get a white coat. My daughter has been telling folks I'm in doctor school since I started my post-bacc; she paraded around the house in my lab coat prouder than proud. It honestly makes me almost cry to see the inspiration she has in watching me go through this. My son understood the MCAT-Personal Statement-Activities-Primary-Secondary-Interview-Wait-list-Acceptance slog when he was 7 and could probably answer a bunch of application questions from other pre-meds. These kids have been through it all with me.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I am super looking forward to the white coat ceremony - it's on the family calendar (ie - my kids, not my parents). I'm glad it'll be before my kids are back in school, but I'd probably let them miss a day for it even if it's moved later.

My acceptance into medical school is something the entire family has had to pitch in for and my kids will be sooooo excited to see me get a white coat. My daughter has been telling folks I'm in doctor school since I started my post-bacc; she paraded around the house in my lab coat prouder than proud. It honestly makes me almost cry to see the inspiration she has in watching me go through this. My son understood the MCAT-Personal Statement-Activities-Primary-Secondary-Interview-Wait-list-Acceptance slog when he was 7 and could probably answer a bunch of application questions from other pre-meds. These kids have been through it all with me.

Same here. Except my parents will be there right next to my kids.

 

[Campana]

Same here. Except my parents will be there right next to my kids.

Oh, I'm sure my parents and my in-laws will all be there too...I just don't manage their calendars

 

[Dr. Stalker]

It would mean more if PAs, NPs, Pharmacists, nurses, etc didn’t also wear a white coat. PA and pharmacy students get a white coat ceremony as well.

It lost its symbolism. It doesnt keep me warm anyway.

I agree. Is the ceremony silly/tacky? Maybe. But I went through a bunch of garbage (albeit my fault for messing up the MCAT), took several gap years, and worked my rear end off to get accepted. My WCC was dope AF, but my school enjoys splurging money so it was super duper fancy.

Also, I agree that the short white coat has lost meaning; everyone has one, just like a long white coat. One of our main teaching hospitals actually had a huge problem because EVERYONE wears a long white coat (nurses, nurse assistants, RNs, doctors, residents, techs, etc.) and a group of techs were smoking cigarettes in the main lobby of the hospital, and a bunch of patients asked administration as to why "doctors are smoking cigarettes, in public, in long white coats, outside the hospital" and the hospital responded with some stupid PR move.

Someone on SDN said this a few years back and it was the funniest thing ever. He said medical schools should switch to a short black coat, and watch all the other health sciences fields switch hahaha. Then switch back to short white coats. And so on.

Does it matter? Not really, but I do feel I that medical students should have something symbolic to them and only them that isn't just their ID card.

 

[AllBleedingStops]

To answer the original post question:

I think I will always remember the people I was sitting by, I remember the clothes I was wearing. I recall being unable to stop smiling as I was walking onstage to be coated despite the fact I was very tired and a little grumpy from orientation. I knew more about the obstacles ahead and that was what I was interested in getting on to but it was an incredible moment for my family. I worked hard to get there and at times, I don't know if everyone thought I was going to make it. You really could see the pride and happiness in their eyes because this was a truly validating moment for their work in supporting me and the effort I went through to get there.

 

[ciestar]

To answer the original post question:

I think I will always remember the people I was sitting by, I remember the clothes I was wearing. I recall being unable to stop smiling as I was walking onstage to be coated despite the fact I was very tired and a little grumpy from orientation. I knew more about the obstacles ahead and that was what I was interested in getting on to but it was an incredible moment for my family. I worked hard to get there and at times, I don't know if everyone thought I was going to make it. You really could see the pride and happiness in their eyes because this was a truly validating moment for their work in supporting me and the effort I went through to get there.

My med school class is huge and funny enough, while on my current rotation my classmates and I were talking about whether we had met. My classmate and I were like, yeah we have, we sat next to each other at our white coat ceremony.

The dress I wore is lost thanks to American Airlines.

You’re right, though, you don’t forget this stuff.

 

[getdown]

I vaguely remember I was excited for the ceremony but that was likely for my parents who were really supportive and very proud I got in. The ceremony itself was meh, pretty typical. I've never been one for ceremonies honestly ... I didn't even want to go to my college graduation, but this was different since it did mark a new phase that not everyone in society can do.

Really? Man must be different when you get into med school! I mean I guess I can get not wearing it all the time but... to me it would be a big honorable moment haha

You'll realize that the short white coat that medical students wear isn't a symbol of honor or prestige in the hospital. It's a marker of who you are in the medical hierarchy and identifies you as someone to not bother asking anything of since you know absolutely nothing and carry absolutely zero credibility. Also identifies you by nursing staff as someone they can take out their frustrations over without any repercussions.

This elicits a bigger question of doctors “standing out” in a healthcare setting. I personally don’t think it’s particulary necessary. It may only be a problem if someone intentionally tries to do something they’re not trained for. And that in and of itself raises another sensitive topic of the rising trend of pharmacists/nurses being trained in procedures and decision making that have traditionally been physician-only territory. I remember reading a case study of nurses at a private practice being trained on how to do LP’s. But given the higher workloads of doctors I feel like this may not be a bad thing.

As has been mentioned countless times in this thread the whole "white coat" thing has been diluted by the fact other fields use it as well. However, keep in mind that no matter what those "other" fields try to portray/confuse/blur the lines of medical hierarchy, the one thing that matters is your training as a physician and what lies between your ears. When **** hits the fan, a patient codes, someone requires emergency intervention all eyes will be on you. Very rarely will anyone else in a white coat have the balls to take charge of this situation since they know they're out of their depth. I don't ever wear a white coat in the hospital, partly cause I'm mostly in the ORs, but if I ever get called in for a difficult airway/intervention whatever everyone defers to me.

 

[getdown]

While I definitely understand where you’re coming from, I think for some students who might be coming from areas or situations where it isn’t common to have enough money for things you need (let alone things you want) going into a room where the majority of parents in it are making 100k or more a year subjectively seems like everyone is insanely rich.

It's a matter of perspective and "keeping up with the joneses". Even multimillionares feel they're not rich if they compare themselves to the warren buffets, bill gates and jeff bezoses of the world. People are just engrained to never be satisfied, there's always the next thing. It's not wrong, it's just human nature. Hence why having a perspective to everything you do is important so you don't lose sight as to the "why" you're doing certain things.

 

[Detective SnowBucket]

With my tax rate being 40%, I don’t take home that kind of money. 500,000 is pretax.
And I would never buy a car anyway. Leasing is the way to go.
All that said, most of my Orthopedic colleagues drive SUVs or reasonable sedans. Maybe the private practice guys can afford to splurge, but my academic colleagues do not drive sports cars.

I was thinking the same thing, but a handful of online finances sites actually said 10% of pre-tax monthly income, giving >$40,000/mo pre-tax -> ~$4,000 car payment. OK OK, they also said to include the insurance in that 10% which I didn't, so knock all of those numbers down a little.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

With my tax rate being 40%, I don’t take home that kind of money. 500,000 is pretax.
And I would never buy a car anyway. Leasing is the way to go.
All that said, most of my Orthopedic colleagues drive SUVs or reasonable sedans. Maybe the private practice guys can afford to splurge, but my academic colleagues do not drive sports cars.

Leasing makes sense if you have more than one office or site you drive to. If you only drive to one site, I dont believe the costs involved make it worth it. Dave Ramsey calls them a "Fleece". Cars are a cost center. Buying one 2 yrs old where 20 to 30% of depreciation is gone depending on vehicle, is the better value.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Leasing makes sense if you have more than one office or site you drive to. If you only drive to one site, I dont believe the costs involved make it worth it. Dave Ramsey calls them a "Fleece". Cars are a cost center. Buying one 2 yrs old where 20 to 30% of depreciation is gone depending on vehicle, is the better value.

I like Dave Ramsey generally. Some of the stuff he says is a little extreme and doesn’t apply to a lot of folks, but I thought the course was good.