Who can call themselves "Physician"?

[osli]

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But yeah, I still stand behind the fact that MBBS = MD (the AMA supports this as well) just as they support MD = DO (in the US).

Hey, I can stand behind that too. Regardless of differing opinions on whether a professional medical degree should be considered undergrad, masters, doctorate, or super-cool-dude level, the bottom line is that a medical degree = a medical degree, regardless of the particular naming conventions in the country granting it. Well, I guess some countries might have paths to medical practice that are nowhere near the US/UK/Canada/many others in terms of rigor and depth of education, but that's another topic.

 

[howelljolly]

Hey, I can stand behind that too. Regardless of differing opinions on whether a professional medical degree should be considered undergrad, masters, doctorate, or super-cool-dude level, the bottom line is that a medical degree = a medical degree, regardless of the particular naming conventions in the country granting it. Well, I guess some countries might have paths to medical practice that are nowhere near the US/UK/Canada/many others in terms of rigor and depth of education, but that's another topic.

All med schools in all countries follow the curriculum set by the WHO. While some programs may be harder, none of them are easy.

 

[osli]

All med schools in all countries follow the curriculum set by the WHO. While some programs may be harder, none of them are easy.

Really? That's good to know. I guess I assumed that there were some educational programs in less wealthy or industrious countries that produced health care providers capable of tending to the basic health care needs of the people (maybe hungry, impoverished people), but not quite so schooled on the finer points of biochemistry.

 

[deleted77919]

All med schools in all countries follow the curriculum set by the WHO. While some programs may be harder, none of them are easy.

While true, WHO curriculum =/= LCME accredidation. I understand the LCME will only accredit US/Canadian schools, but the point is that the US (and some other countries) have particularly high standards above and beyond the WHO suggestions.

In fact because of this (and other issues), there are some schools that are explicitely not recognized in some states.

http://www.credentialwatch.org/non/california_medical.shtml

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

While true, WHO curriculum =/= LCME accredidation. I understand the LCME will only accredit US/Canadian schools, but the point is that the US (and some other countries) have particularly high standards above and beyond the WHO suggestions.

In fact because of this (and other issues), there are some schools that are explicitely not recognized in some states.

http://www.credentialwatch.org/non/california_medical.shtml

And while that may be true... The fact remains that as soon as ANYONE who graduates from a WHO/IMED recognized medical school and sits USMLE and obtains their ECMFG certificate the US law now states that they are equal to any other LCME trained MD graduate.

Most of the small handful of schools that they listed that weren't recognised by the CA medical board were dodgy for profit schools in the Caribbean that market themselves to Americans. As long as you attend an established medical school, you won't have a problem. Should be common sense.

I guess I assumed that there were some educational programs in less wealthy or industrious countries that produced health care providers capable of tending to the basic health care needs of the people (maybe hungry, impoverished people), but not quite so schooled on the finer points of biochemistry

You must score quite well on USMLE (US or International) in order to obtain any reasonably competitive residency these days. If a foreign grad can do this.. then yes they obviously have the same understanding of biochem, etc as anyone else.

Some people are actually of the opinion that medical gradutes from 3rd world countries who had to learn how to diagnose without the same access to expensive diagnostic tools such as MRI, CT, etc. are actually better trained in some ways. 👍

 

[osli]

You must score quite well on USMLE (US or International) in order to obtain any reasonably competitive residency these days. If a foreign grad can do this.. then yes they obviously have the same understanding of biochem, etc as anyone else.

Some people are actually of the opinion that medical gradutes from 3rd world countries who had to learn how to diagnose without the same access to expensive diagnostic tools such as MRI, CT, etc. are actually better trained in some ways. 👍

I could buy that. There is probably great value in having lots of early practical clinical experience. If you got a crappy education and then self taught and did well on the USMLE, more power to ya!

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Girl at bar: Hey, what do you do?
Dude at bar: I'm a doctor.
GAB: Oh, how interesting. *Bats eyelashes* What kind?
DAB: A veterinarian (Substitute: dentist/chiropractor.)

Yes, you could technically say that, but it is deceptive.

How on earth is it deceptive to say you are a doctor when you are a veterinarian? Allopaths study the human body and all of its medical facets, veterinarians study animal bodies (multiple species, mind you) and all of their medical facets. How does that make us not "full" or "real" doctors? 😕 A DVM is the exact sam thing as an MD, just for animals as opposed to people. You can't possibly be saying it is
"easier" or "less medically intensive" to study animals than it is people. After all...the human body IS an animal body. We also have to interact with clients the same way as doctors do with patients in terms of interactional etiquette...is there some sort of huge discrepancy you have imagined that I am missing?

 

[chris03333]

Girl at bar: Hey, what do you do?
Dude at bar: I'm a doctor.
GAB: Oh, how interesting. *Bats eyelashes* What kind?
DAB: A veterinarian (Substitute: dentist/chiropractor.)

Yes, you could technically say that, but it is deceptive.

How on earth is it deceptive to say you are a doctor when you are a veterinarian? Allopaths study the human body and all of its medical facets, veterinarians study animal bodies (multiple species, mind you) and all of their medical facets. How does that make us not "full" or "real" doctors? 😕 A DVM is the exact sam thing as an MD, just for animals as opposed to people. You can't possibly be saying it is
"easier" or "less medically intensive" to study animals than it is people. After all...the human body IS an animal body. We also have to interact with clients the same way as doctors do with patients in terms of interactional etiquette...is there some sort of huge discrepancy you have imagined that I am missing?

Well before we get all defensive...I do not know any veterinarian who would respond doctor to being asked by some random person what they do. Some (few at that) will even say veterinarian because that only leads to people telling you how much they love animals blah blah oh and my dog fluffy has this thing (insert some random description here) what do I do? How do I treat it (like I am some "pet psychic" that could diagnose your fluffy without even looking at it!😡😡😡)

okay okay end rant here...
my point is that most vets would either say veterinarian or some random job which won't spark any stupid questions😎.


So now back to the millionth thread arguing about who is a doctor, please continue, it's entertaining

 

[howelljolly]

I could buy that. There is probably great value in having lots of early practical clinical experience. If you got a crappy education and then self taught and did well on the USMLE, more power to ya!

I dont think that was his point. In many countries that don't have easy access to expensive diagnostics and imaging, practitioners rely on clinical skills and decisions to diagnose pathologies that we otherwise diagnose with technology. While wealthy countries will use technology to localize a brain lesion, or assess a cardiac valvular defect, "3rd world" countries do this with clinical skills. They are probably better at it than we are.

 

[osli]

I dont think that was his point.

I think I understood his point well enough, even if my response was a bit tangential. If not, he can certainly clarify if he likes.

 

[StealthDog]

my point is that most vets would either say veterinarian or some random job which won't spark any stupid questions

Too true. I've been warned many times to never mention being a vet if you can help it.

But really, do you want to base your career on what a girl in a bar thinks of your title?

 

[drlisa0318]

Anyone know of other states' views on this?

Ya know, I originally started this thread to find out if states other than Oklahoma have statutes regarding this, and, if so, what those statutes entail. I wasn't really looking for individuals' views on this, though it has been an interesting read.

Does anyone have any knowledge of how states other than Oklahoma define "physician" and "doctor"?

 

[gregMD]

A DVM is the exact sam thing as an MD, just for animals as opposed to people.

No - its not.

 

[TRAMD]

Too true. I've been warned many times to never mention being a vet if you can help it.

But really, do you want to base your career on what a girl in a bar thinks of your title?

I don't understand. I would think chicks would love a veterinarian.

Another point--I can't believe I am responding to this--I can't imagine many long-term relationships start in a bar. I NEVER met a girl in a bar. Furthermore, drunken girls in a bar seem about as picky about men as goats are about food. The guys who went home with girls displayed supreme confidence in themselves and low moral standards.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

No - its not

I would loooove to hear why DVM and MD are not equivalent degrees and both doctors But why don't you PM me instead of having us clutter up the thread.

 

[chris03333]

I don't understand. I would think chicks would love a veterinarian.

Another point--I can't believe I am responding to this--I can't imagine many long-term relationships start in a bar. I NEVER met a girl in a bar. Furthermore, drunken girls in a bar seem about as picky about men as goats are about food. The guys who went home with girls displayed supreme confidence in themselves and low moral standards.

True very true.

Well I don't care about the "chicks". If I go to a bar, I want to relax and avoid all work type discussions. So no guy needs to know what my profession is. Dammit just let me have my beer😀

 

[TRAMD]

No - its not

I would loooove to hear why DVM and MD are not equivalent degrees and both doctors But why don't you PM me instead of having us clutter up the thread.

I don't know about "equivalent" degrees. I think that this would have to be better defined. Would you define the level of degree by length of training? In that case, the MD wins. If you defined it by amount of knowledge then it is probably up in the air. I do think that in general human life is considered more valuable than animal life but there are certainly some very valuable animals; both financial wise in terms of race horses and show dogs and emotional-wise to many people. Vets also have a lot of the difficulty seen in pediatrics as the patients might not be able to adequetly explain their symptoms to you.

Being an MD, I have my biases but I don't see why a veterinarian shouldn't be considered the same for animals that an MD/DO is for humans. I don't know any vets that would refer to themselves as a "physician" but I don't see anything wrong with a vet referring to themselves as an "animal physician"--though I doubt any would want to.

 

[TRAMD]

Dang, so I decided to try to learn more about the veterinary profession and found a wide range of residencies. Below are some of the ones I found:

Anesthesiology
Cardiology
Dentistry
Food Animal Production Medicine
Large Animal Medicine
Large Animal Surgery
Neurology
Oncology
Ophthalmology (special four-year, academic research-oriented program)
Pathology, Anatomical
Pathology, Clinical
Radiation, Oncology
Radiology
Small Animal Internal Medicine
Small animal surgery
Special Species

I didn't realize there was such depth in veterinary specialties. After 4 years of vet school and then residency, some of these vets might have more years in than an MD/DO with a three year residency.

 

[chris03333]

I I don't know any vets that would refer to themselves as a "physician" but I don't see anything wrong with a vet referring to themselves as an "animal physician"--though I doubt any would want to.

NO veterinarians would EVER say "physician" because the definition includes "human" and that's just icky😳 (kidding there of course but I would not want to deal with people patients)

Veterinarians do use the title Doctor (as in I am referred to as Dr. Chris03333 at work) but:
I would NEVER say "doctor" in response to a question to what I would do for a living. If I were to answer that I would say "veterinarian", or in the case of the bar, I would say "some of this and some of that."

Many veterinary residencies can last longer than 5 years (especially when a PhD is involved).

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

And there are many, many more residencies than even that. Oh yeah, we can definitely pack away the years....I plan to go on to an Anatomical Pathology residency with a combined PhD focusing on nutritional metabolics and renal disease progression....man, I'm never gonna get out of school 😉

I agree, most vets would not *say* "I am a doctor". I just took the post to mean that vets didn't say that because they *weren't* doctors. I also can't stand answering the question in general, because the peron asking then immediately spouts off about their little Fluffy with a bump on it, like someone else said...drives me nuts.

 

[TRAMD]

Cool guys. Thanks for educating me about your profession. Best of luck to both of you!

 

[cel083]

http://www.naprapathicmedicine.edu/what.htm

No, its not naturopathic.. wait.. no, its not chiropractic.. looks like this is some new thing that has combined "nutritional therapy" from naturopathic and manipulation from chiro and put them together. ...weird.

I feel sometimes like we are back in the old west again with lots of snake oil salesmen.

Ever since the alternative hippy babyboomers became are our main customers, and there there is money to be made ...Welcome to the new west, USA! 🙂

Since they depend on patient referrals from doctors, it seems to me like they are overglorified massage therapists with stethoscopes around their necks. Anybody here a napropath? Their training looks scientific enough.

 

[Sean2tall]

Girl at bar: Hey, what do you do?
Dude at bar: I'm a doctor.
GAB: Oh, how interesting. *Bats eyelashes* What kind?
DAB: A veterinarian (Substitute: dentist/chiropractor.)

Yes, you could technically say that, but it is deceptive.

How on earth is it deceptive to say you are a doctor when you are a veterinarian? Allopaths study the human body and all of its medical facets, veterinarians study animal bodies (multiple species, mind you) and all of their medical facets. How does that make us not "full" or "real" doctors? 😕 A DVM is the exact sam thing as an MD, just for animals as opposed to people. You can't possibly be saying it is
"easier" or "less medically intensive" to study animals than it is people. After all...the human body IS an animal body. We also have to interact with clients the same way as doctors do with patients in terms of interactional etiquette...is there some sort of huge discrepancy you have imagined that I am missing?

I am not sure how I can make the point more clear:

Yes, you are a doctor and hold a doctorate degree. It is in no way "less hard/important" or anything like that.

But it does not make sense to say, "I am a doctor/physician," rather than, "I am a veterinarian," unless you are deliberately trying to be vague/deceptive.

I understand that sometimes you may not want to 'fess up to being a vet for fear of having to give curbside medical advice, but how would saying "doctor" alleviate that at all? Then someone will try to show you his/her butt rash, instead. All medical professionals face this exact same problem, why would you want to appear to be a different type of medical professional? Just say you work on an assembly line making ball bearings.

 

[chris03333]

Then someone will try to show you his/her butt rash, instead.

Sad but they still do this when I say veterinarian😱

 

[Sean2tall]

Sad but they still do this when I say veterinarian😱

Haha. Can't say I'm too surprised about that.

 

[blackdragon]

Dr.Millisevert,
I would not say MD and MBBS are not equal, they may, but saying they are equivalents doesn't seem right. In the US, the MD title includes undergrad, medical, and graduate medical education (residency). Using the MD degree (medical school) alone to compare with MBBS is ambiguity.

In India and other countries, you can have MD after 3 year study after MBBS. In the US, the same MD, with at least 3 year post graduate, still an MD. Now you may say that the Commonwealth MD is a research MD. I would say a lot of graduate medical education require research and they may last up to 7 years (neurosurgery). In the US, the MD is the terminal medical degree (highest in medicine) while in Commonwealth countries, the MD also the highest and terminal degree in medicine (not the MBBS).

If you want to compare these degrees or titles, I think we should consider other factors such as specialty or graduate medical education because it's a part of the MD education. I would not say MD = MBBS

As someone talking about first professional degree, I would argue that PhD can be also a first professional degree. You don't have to have a BS in biology in order to have a PhD in biology. You can have any BS degree to pursue PhD in biology or math (just like MD).

Ok, I see what you're saying. Sorry for the misunderstanding.. as I thought you were referring to the wiki page.

But yeah, I still stand behind the fact that MBBS = MD (the AMA supports this as well) just as they support MD = DO (in the US). I think that they sometimes tend to group MBBS with MD more so than DO because they did at least originate with different philosophies or approaches to patient care, even if they are not much different now.

MD and MBBS being Allopathic and DO as Osteopathic.

but for the practice of medicine in the United States they are all equal. MD=MBBS=DO.

👍

 

[Hayden2102]

Sorry blackdragon but I don't think you really get it.

Dr.Millisevert,
I would not say MD and MBBS are not equal, they may, but saying they are equivalents doesn't seem right. In the US, the MD title includes undergrad, medical, and graduate medical education (residency). Using the MD degree (medical school) alone to compare with MBBS is ambiguity.

You get your MD as soon as you graduate from med school in the US. It doesn't "include" undergrad and graduate medical education. And it's not ambiguous to compare MBBS with MD - at the end of the degree, you're allopathic doctors enabled to practice as interns.

In India and other countries, you can have MD after 3 year study after MBBS. In the US, the same MD, with at least 3 year post graduate, still an MD. Now you may say that the Commonwealth MD is a research MD. I would say a lot of graduate medical education require research and they may last up to 7 years (neurosurgery). In the US, the MD is the terminal medical degree (highest in medicine) while in Commonwealth countries, the MD also the highest and terminal degree in medicine (not the MBBS).

I'm sorry but you just don't know what you're talking about.

MD is not terminal medical degree in Commonwealth. It is a completely different, separate research path for people who are already doctors and want to go back into academia. I know a lot of doctors, and not a single one of them has a Commonwealth MD. It's an option you can take, but hardly anyone ever does. Many doctors who are doing their specialist training also partake in research, like many US ones to.

MBBS is the highest terminal degree in the Commonwealth.

If you want to compare these degrees or titles, I think we should consider other factors such as specialty or graduate medical education because it's a part of the MD education. I would not say MD = MBBS

I'll put it this way.

Australia (and most other Commonwealth countries):
High school + (undergrad) + MBBS = intern. Intern + graduate training = consultant/resident/whatever you want to call it.

US:
High school + undergrad + MD = intern. Intern + graduate training = consultant/resident/attending/whatever you want to call it.

Does that make it more clear?

 

[Timmythemic22]

Girl at bar: Hey, what do you do?
Dude at bar: I'm a doctor.
GAB: Oh, how interesting. *Bats eyelashes* What kind?
DAB: A veterinarian (Substitute: dentist/chiropractor.)

Yes, you could technically say that, but it is deceptive.

How on earth is it deceptive to say you are a doctor when you are a veterinarian? Allopaths study the human body and all of its medical facets, veterinarians study animal bodies (multiple species, mind you) and all of their medical facets. How does that make us not "full" or "real" doctors? 😕 A DVM is the exact sam thing as an MD, just for animals as opposed to people. You can't possibly be saying it is
"easier" or "less medically intensive" to study animals than it is people. After all...the human body IS an animal body. We also have to interact with clients the same way as doctors do with patients in terms of interactional etiquette...is there some sort of huge discrepancy you have imagined that I am missing?

I think the point of his statement was in a casual, conversational setting the common usage of 'doctor' or 'physician' would indicate someone who uses the MD or DO title, even though a doctor could theoretically be recognized as having multiple titles. If you were placed in such a conversational setting, why would you have a problem just saying "I'm a vet"? It seems in that case you would not want to be misleading in your terminology, and just be proud of your profession (which I know to be very difficult and demanding).

 

[heyjack70]

I'll put it this way.

Australia (and most other Commonwealth countries):
High school + (undergrad) + MBBS = intern. Intern + graduate training = consultant/resident/whatever you want to call it.

US:
High school + undergrad + MD = intern. Intern + graduate training = consultant/resident/attending/whatever you want to call it.

Does that make it more clear?

Why is the commonwealth undergrad in parentheses?

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

In the US, the MD title includes undergrad, medical, and graduate medical education (residency).

That is incorrect: MD is simply your undergraduate medical degree same as MBBS. This does not include postgraduate medical training (residency). Sorry.

Hayden2102 is correct here, they are both equal allopathic medical degrees. 👍

All US state medical boards say that MD equals MBBS, and they support MBBS grads who get ECMFG certified using the "MD" title if they so wish. So, if you disagree with this, maybe you should take it up with them.

 

[Hayden2102]

Why is the commonwealth undergrad in parentheses?

Because it is largely optional. About half of the commonwealth med schools require a previous degree and are four years, half don't require a previous degree, and are 5-6 years.

 

[cel083]

I don't understand. I would think chicks would love a veterinarian.

Another point--I can't believe I am responding to this--I can't imagine many long-term relationships start in a bar. I NEVER met a girl in a bar. Furthermore, drunken girls in a bar seem about as picky about men as goats are about food. The guys who went home with girls displayed supreme confidence in themselves and low moral standards.

Oh, the chick (-ens) would love a vet. Oh, you mean the other kind of chick.😉

 

[rpm]

But it does not make sense to say, "I am a doctor/physician," rather than, "I am a veterinarian," unless you are deliberately trying to be vague/deceptive.

For someone who is a veterinarian, it does make sense to say "I am a doctor" b/c they have a doctorates. Just like someone who completed their PhD can state "I am a doctor".

However, the person with the PhD or DVM should not say physician since they are not a medial doctor who focuses on the human body.

It is unfortunate that in the U.S., people only equate doctor=MD.

 

[Hayden2102]

In my opinion, doctor and doctorate are two different things.

I think it's misleading for a PhD holder to say 'I'm a doctor', but fine to say 'I have a doctorate'.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

In my opinion, doctor and doctorate are two different things.

I think it's misleading for a PhD holder to say 'I'm a doctor', but fine to say 'I have a doctorate'.

Exactly! 👍

 

[chris03333]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physician
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Veterinary_Medicine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Medicine

For those anti wikipedia:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/physician
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Veterinarian
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/doctor

 

[howelljolly]

Yes!

I am getting an undergraduate Medical Doctorate.

Doctors of Veterinary Medicine should call themselves Quacks of Bird Medicine.

The guy that taught me physiology should say that he has a docorate, when asked what he does. He wouldnt say that he is a physiology professor, and that he is a Doctor of Philosophy.

Why do physiologists get doctorates in philosophy anyway? I wonder if the word 'philosophy' means something like 'love of wisdom' rather than 'discipline involving theory of reality, ethics, knowledge, asthetics...". I wonder of the word "physician" means something besides "medical practitioner with at least 7 years of education that does not include special attention to the foot, teeth, spine, or non-synthetic drugs"

Back to my point.
Cardiothoracic surgeons should tell patients that they are physicians specializing in cardiothoracic surgery. They should be confused with a Fellow of the American College of Chest Physicians, allthough they can't generally get membership into it, being physicians specializing in CT surgery, rather than cardiology or pulmonology.

ODs are not Optometric Doctors, as their degree implies. But, Optometrists should medically treat non-surgical diseases of the eye, so that optho's, EPs, and FPs dont have to. Anyway, they are not Optometric physicians, since Opthalmologists are Physicians specializing in Surgery of the eye. They are, after all, Fellows of the American College of Surgeons, not the American College of Physicians. That makes them physicians.

Back to the lower life forms.
Podiatrists who are Fellows of the American College of Foot and Ankle Surgeons, and by no means, Foot and Ankle Surgeons.

Dentists, who are trained to manage any pathology from the orbits to the larynx, including tumors, and infections, should instruct patients to call them Mr, Mrs., Ms., or Miss. That applies to Doctors of Chiropractic, as well. The only one who should be addessed as "Doctor" is me.

Naturopathic Doctors who manage the complete preventative, primary, and obstetric care of their patients, should under no circumstances be called Naturopathic Physicians.

So, when I graduate, I'll be calling myself Doctor, telling people I'm a physician, and thats that. Then when I have a patient that needs the diabetic vascular disease in their foot managed, I'll be calling my podiatry consult Miss Smith.

If there was any actual problem with who should be called what, something would be done about it. Back in the '70s when phony medical degrees were actually popping up, and patients were at a real risk, something was done about it. We can still see the effects of it now with the restrictions placed on American born IMGs.

This issue of who should be called a physician, or a surgeon, or if the a medical doctorate is a doctorate, is really an issue among those of us who feel better when we put ourselves on a pedestal, and put our colleagues down. You should find some healthier coping mechanisms.

Oh, and I do call my PsyD "Doctor".

 

[wanabdoc]

but only 2 classes who "practice medicine", MDs and DOs."

What do the other classes practice? quackery?

 

[StealthDog]

If you were placed in such a conversational setting, why would you have a problem just saying "I'm a vet"?

I wouldn't have any problem saying "I'm a vet", but I'd also have no problem saying that I'm an animal doctor. I would not call myself a physician.

Doctors of Veterinary Medicine should call themselves Quacks of Bird Medicine.

Er, I hope this is a joke?

 

[StealthDog]

... although I did get to work with these little buggers this summer at the wildlife rehab clinic...

*quack*

 

[Tired]

What do the other classes practice? quackery?

No, just the Naturopaths.

 

[ddstobe]

If Naturopath (N.D.) can practice as PCPs, shouldn't they be also called "doctor"?

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Er, I hope this is a joke?

I think that guy's entire post was a joke. I had a hard time even reading it.

 

[docbill]

They also need to limit who can refer to themselves as "Dr" in the clinical setting. A PhD should not introduce themselves as "Dr.".

You funny, PhD is the original DOCTOR. In in most of the world is regarded as the DOCTOR, whereas physicians are not. IF a PhD is done in medical research and they contributed to your better understanding or cure of the human body, shouldn't they be called DR. in a clinical setting?

 

[wanabdoc]

If Naturopath (N.D.) can practice as PCPs, shouldn't they be also called "doctor"?

My mom (bless her soul) is also a PCP when she puts cold compresses on my forehead, gives me charcoal and goldenseal for a sick stomach, and advises bed rest when I have a fever of 104, I guess I'll call her a doctor from now on.

BTW in all seriousness, this is accurate of what NDs really do (hydrotherapy, herbal remedies, etc)

To be fair, charcoal does work wonders for a sick stomach.

 

[tncekm]

Why do physiologists get doctorates in philosophy anyway?

Would you like the short answer? Yes? Okay.

People who attain a PhD prepare a dissertation defending a thesis.

Here is the definition of thesis: an unproved statement put forward as a premise in an argument.

Here is the definition of philosophy: The study of the truths and principles of being, knowledge, or conduct.

See the connection?

 

[Hayden2102]

You funny, PhD is the original DOCTOR. In in most of the world is regarded as the DOCTOR, whereas physicians are not. IF a PhD is done in medical research and they contributed to your better understanding or cure of the human body, shouldn't they be called DR. in a clinical setting?

In most of the world a PhD is regarded as doctor and a physician is not? Huh? Which 'most of the world' are you referring to?

Even if a PhD has their PhD in medical research, if they cannot treat you as clinicial medical doctors, they shouldn't be called "a doctor", but should be addressed as Dr, if they so wish.

 

[tncekm]

In most of the world a PhD is regarded as doctor and a physician is not? Huh? Which 'most of the world' are you referring to?

Even if a PhD has their PhD in medical research, if they cannot treat you as clinicial medical doctors, they shouldn't be called "a doctor", but should be addressed as Dr, if they so wish.

I'm not quite sure if I'm understanding your post, so my apologies if my post seems misdirected. But, PhD's (short for Doctor of Philosophy) ARE the original doctors. The first PhD was awarded in 1150BCE or something like that. The first medical practitioners weren't called Doctor until 100yrs later. Doctor is synonymous with "teacher" in its original context.

That being said, I've definitely noticed a trend amongst PhD's. They seem to like to refer to Doctors of Medicine solely as Physicians and try to pretend they're not real doctors. If that's you're argument, I think its irritating as well. But, IMHO any PhD who has an issue calling a Medical Doctor a doctor just needs to put down the Haterade and take a few soothing breaths.

 

[howelljolly]

My mom (bless her soul) is also a PCP when she puts cold compresses on my forehead, gives me charcoal and goldenseal for a sick stomach, and advises bed rest when I have a fever of 104, I guess I'll call her a doctor from now on.

BTW in all seriousness, this is accurate of what NDs really do (hydrotherapy, herbal remedies, etc)

To be fair, charcoal does work wonders for a sick stomach.

Yep. Seriously (this time), why shouldnt there be a practitioner that specializes in herbal remedies? In our 2nd year Pharm class, we spent no more than 15 minutes discussing them. But in my Tarscon Pocket Pharmacopea, there are pages and pages of common herbal medications (go on... check yours.... yeah, see?). Who's gonna know about those drugs, which people do actually use? Not me!

At the first sign of a cold, take Zicam!!! Thats what the TV advertises, but... Did you ever advise a patient to take it? Probably not, because you didnt learn about Zicam in med school. Why? Because it is homeopathic. NDs know all about that drug, which is sold OTC everywhere. We don't.

Herbal medicine "quacks" back in the day used to treat heart failure by having the poor chap munch on some Foxglove flowers. It works just as well when we give our patients Digoxin. Why? Because Digoxin is extracted from Foxglove. Those herbal quacks figured it out without going to med school. We just jacked their idea.

Again with splitting hairs, Doctor, vs. Physician. Dont you folks think that your audience dictates what you would call yourself?

Do you walk in the exam room and say, "Hi Im Dr. Smith, I'm a physician. No, you say "Hi I'm Dr. Smith".

When you walked into Physiology class, did the prof say "Hi, Im Dr Jones, Im a Physiology professor, I have a PhD in Physiology. No.

The audience already knows that when they meet the Doctor, that they are either their physician, or their professor, naturopath, or whatever.

Do you think that anyone who isnt a ***** has ever gone to a naturopath to get their acute MI taken care of? People know where to go for what, they watch enough Grays Anatomy.

Your phyisio professor won't set up shop, and line the students up for digital rectal exams. If he does, and you go, thats your fault.

When you go to a conference, will you meet a colleague and say Hi, Im Dr Jones, MD, and I'm a cardiologist? If I was, then I'd say, "Hi Im Mike Jones, Im a cardiologist at Charity Hospital.

People introduce themselves to describe their role to the person they are speaking to... Surgery Resident, Pediatrician, Vet, Naturopathic Physician, Dentist, Professor.

Theres no confusion. And again, I am calling some of you out as trying to put yourselves on a pedestal by being wanting to be called Doctor, or Physician, or Master, or Captain.

 

[Hayden2102]

I'm not quite sure if I'm understanding your post, so my apologies if my post seems misdirected. But, PhD's (short for Doctor of Philosophy) ARE the original doctors. The first PhD was awarded in 1150BCE or something like that. The first medical practitioners weren't called Doctor until 100yrs later. Doctor is synonymous with "teacher" in its original context.

That being said, I've definitely noticed a trend amongst PhD's. They seem to like to refer to Doctors of Medicine solely as Physicians and try to pretend they're not real doctors. If that's you're argument, I think its irritating as well. But, IMHO any PhD who has an issue calling a Medical Doctor a doctor just needs to put down the Haterade and take a few soothing breaths.

I definitely know that PhD's are the original "Dr" (doctor in that sense meaning teacher). I was responding to the person who I quoted who said that physicians are not regarded as doctors, which is what my confusion was about.

But the function of that word has definitely changed, one definition being a "title" for PhD holders and the other definition being a "doctor", or person who practices medicine (in a general sense).

Which is why I think it is unreasonable for a person who has a PhD to say "I'm a doctor", rather than, "I hold a doctorate in...".