Who's not getting in?

[TrueWolverine]

This is really more out of curiosity than anything but I've been wondering about this for some time and want to see what people think. It seems like I read often on here that people with >3.0 and/or >25 have a chance of getting in somewhere as long as they apply broadly and have no read flags, which doesn't seem like it's that crazy difficult to do. Are there really that many people applying with stats worse than that, that someone with those stats can beat out 3000 other applicants? I get that feeling that there is some X-Factor that we will never know (ie. great stats not getting in while low stats gets 3 acceptances) but is there also a group of seriously sub par students applying? I know SDN is not a huge sample size and I like to think most of us are on here because we are serious about getting in but are there a lot of people applying who really have no idea what they're doing and have no chance of getting in? (2.7 and 22 for example)

Again, mostly just asking out of curiosity.

 

[IslandStyle808]

As you already know, medical school admissions is not a purely stats game. There are those with 4.0 GPA and 40 MCAT scores that don't have ECs and are naive enough to think they will beat out everyone. Then they get rejected by the vast majority of schools they apply.

Yes, there are also those who are clueless and come with 2.7 GPAs and 22 MCATs and think it is game of roulette. These people get rejected by all schools that they apply to.

The ones that are a mystery seem to have a GPA of 3.0-3.4 and a MCAT of 23-25. There are tons of things to consider as to why they were selected.

1) The low GPA shows the big picture, but not the last part of it. The person could have had a strong upward trend of a 4.0 GPA, showing their reinvention.
2) Clinical experiences. These are very valued in the DO world and can give you application a boost (as to how much I can't say).
3) Mission. There are schools that want people who will serve rural and underserved areas. Thus admission committees will select those that meet their mission statement, even if they have low stats.
4) Regional Bias. There are school who look for applicant who are from the region so they can serve the region. Some schools are more biased than others.
5) Military. People who were deployed to various locations have gained many amazing experiences, especially medical. Plus they have the whole "no excuses" mantra that they live by, which is a plus especially in medical school.
6) Other accomplishments. Maybe a Rhodes scholar? Published a popular book? etc. There might be something that the admissions committee really likes about the person.

There are probably more factors to be considered. I do believe that we should be selecting for the best and brightest. However, I don't believe that be a 4.0GPA/40MCAT automaton. Medicine is more than just that.

 

[ClassicJandT]

I'm a 3x re applicant with a 3.1x cgpa 3.7 sgpa 30+ mcat.
Oh and I have a 3.8+ cgpa, 3.8 sgpa over last 100+ credits. I also have great ECs. Getting in is a crapshoot and no one is owed a seat- there are more qualified applicants who don't get in than you realize.

 

[slow twitch]

I'm a 3x re applicant with a 3.1x cgpa 3.7 sgpa 30+ mcat.
Oh and I have a 3.8+ cgpa, 3.8 sgpa over last 100+ credits. I also have great ECs. Getting in is a crapshoot and no one is owed a seat- there are more qualified applicants who don't get in than you realize.

Do you have a glaring red flag on your app? Do you listen to Nickelback?

 

[feeling-dizzy]

I'm a 3x re applicant with a 3.1x cgpa 3.7 sgpa 30+ mcat.
Oh and I have a 3.8+ cgpa, 3.8 sgpa over last 100+ credits. I also have great ECs. Getting in is a crapshoot and no one is owed a seat- there are more qualified applicants who don't get in than you realize.

Do you only apply MD programs? Are you CA resident? Those two factors magnify the difficulty a lot

 

[Seth Joo]

This is really more out of curiosity than anything but I've been wondering about this for some time and want to see what people think. It seems like I read often on here that people with >3.0 and/or >25 have a chance of getting in somewhere as long as they apply broadly and have no read flags, which doesn't seem like it's that crazy difficult to do. Are there really that many people applying with stats worse than that, that someone with those stats can beat out 3000 other applicants? I get that feeling that there is some X-Factor that we will never know (ie. great stats not getting in while low stats gets 3 acceptances) but is there also a group of seriously sub par students applying? I know SDN is not a huge sample size and I like to think most of us are on here because we are serious about getting in but are there a lot of people applying who really have no idea what they're doing and have no chance of getting in? (2.7 and 22 for example)

Again, mostly just asking out of curiosity.

Despite all this jazz about DO school claiming they have 1000s of application for 100 or so seats, its nowhere near as hard to get into a DO school as it is to an MD school, I know it because I went through admissions process at both MD and DO schools, I got two interviews at MD schools, wound up rejected at one, and waitlisted and then rejected at the other, I got 8 interview invites out of ten applications to DO schools, attend five interviews and got into all five DO schools I interviewed at, DO schools do get a lot of applicants but the quality of applicants is not of the same level as MD schools.

 

[swollcat]

Do you have a glaring red flag on your app? Do you listen to Nickelback?

It doesn't take a red flag to show what's wrong with their app. While I'm enthused with the comeback, their past deficits are obvious. They barely have a 3.1 cum with a 3.8 in the last 100 units. First off 3.1 is very low. Most schools screen at 3.25. Second, 3.1 despite a 3.8 in the last 100 units is suggestive of an original 2.3 or 2.4 GPA with probably a boat of Ds Cs and maybe some Fs. Almost no one comes back from this

 

[Supernatural17]

It doesn't take a red flag to show what's wrong with their app. While I'm enthused with the comeback, their past deficits are obvious. They barely have a 3.1 cum with a 3.8 in the last 100 units. First off 3.1 is very low. Most schools screen at 3.25. Second, 3.1 despite a 3.8 in the last 100 units is suggestive of an original 2.3 or 2.4 GPA with probably a boat of Ds Cs and maybe some Fs. Almost no one comes back from this

How about if they retake any C's and the couple of D's, and it was in the beginning of their academic career?

 

[oOKawaiiOo]

Despite all this jazz about DO school claiming they have 1000s of application for 100 or so seats, its nowhere near as hard to get into a DO school as it is to an MD school, I know it because I went through admissions process at both MD and DO schools, I got two interviews at MD schools, wound up rejected at one, and waitlisted and then rejected at the other, I got 8 interview invites out of ten applications to DO schools, attend five interviews and got into all five DO schools I interviewed at, DO schools do get a lot of applicants but the quality of applicants is not of the same level as MD schools.

DOs are fairly more attractive.

 

[asdf123g]

DOs are fairly more attractive.

this. I hear they pull more chicks too (obviously).

 

[el_duderino]

Man I had a 3.0/35 and didn't even get an interview at any of the 5-6 DO schools I applied to. Got 2 MD interviews though, go figure.

 

[Launcelot]

Got in applying late (Dec-Jan), with ~3.0 (most of it community college classes), 28 MCAT in a single cycle. Only got two DO interviews (both during the very last interview cohort for both schools), was the standby seat at one of them and ended up getting deferred to C/O 2019 because no one was absent during C/O 2018 orientation. I am convinced that it's as much of a dice roll as it is having better stats, but it helps to make the most of small details when you finally get a shot (blow away interviews, very good personal statements, good letters of recs etc.).

Forgot to add that I reapplied and added MD schools June following year (before I knew about the standby seat) and ended up getting an interview sometime in November. Apply early!

 

[Laito]

Got in applying late (Dec-Jan), with ~3.0 (most of it community college classes), 28 MCAT in a single cycle. Only got two DO interviews (both during the very last interview cohort for both schools), was the standby seat at one of them and ended up getting deferred to C/O 2019 because no one was absent during C/O 2018 orientation. I am convinced that it's as much of a dice roll as it is having better stats, but it helps to make the most of small details when you finally get a shot (blow away interviews, very good personal statements, good letters of recs etc.).

Forgot to add that I reapplied and added MD schools June following year (before I knew about the standby seat) and ended up getting an interview sometime in November. Apply early!

Which two schools did you get interviews from?

 

[swollcat]

How about if they retake any C's and the couple of D's, and it was in the beginning of their academic career?

That's more than okay; that's exactly why GR exists in the first place. Regardless of how much of a comeback you make, you wanna make sure that your end GPA's are floating around 3.3-3.4+.

Of all the GPA semantics, a 3.0 or 3.1 to a 3.3 is EASILY the most significant

 

[redj]

As you already know, medical school admissions is not a purely stats game. There are those with 4.0 GPA and 40 MCAT scores that don't have ECs and are naive enough to think they will beat out everyone. Then they get rejected by the vast majority of schools they apply.

Yes, there are also those who are clueless and come with 2.7 GPAs and 22 MCATs and think it is game of roulette. These people get rejected by all schools that they apply to.

The ones that are a mystery seem to have a GPA of 3.0-3.4 and a MCAT of 23-25. There are tons of things to consider as to why they were selected.

1) The low GPA shows the big picture, but not the last part of it. The person could have had a strong upward trend of a 4.0 GPA, showing their reinvention.
2) Clinical experiences. These are very valued in the DO world and can give you application a boost (as to how much I can't say).
3) Mission. There are schools that want people who will serve rural and underserved areas. Thus admission committees will select those that meet their mission statement, even if they have low stats.
4) Regional Bias. There are school who look for applicant who are from the region so they can serve the region. Some schools are more biased than others.
5) Military. People who were deployed to various locations have gained many amazing experiences, especially medical. Plus they have the whole "no excuses" mantra that they live by, which is a plus especially in medical school.
6) Other accomplishments. Maybe a Rhodes scholar? Published a popular book? etc. There might be something that the admissions committee really likes about the person.

There are probably more factors to be considered. I do believe that we should be selecting for the best and brightest. However, I don't believe that be a 4.0GPA/40MCAT automaton. Medicine is more than just that.

I have a question on #5 on the list. Does deployment/military really help boost someones app? Honestly didnt really think med schools would care that much.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I have a question on #5 on the list. Does deployment/military really help boost someones app? Honestly didnt really think med schools would care that much.

I can't say how large a boost it is, but based on impressions by faculty on SDN and a few videos from faculty from other schools, it seems to be a strong plus for them.

 

[wxman393]

I can't say how large a boost it is, but based on impressions by faculty on SDN and a few videos from faculty from other schools, it seems to be a strong plus for them.

N=1 but during the interviews I attended (in military uniform), I was asked pretty specific questions about my deployments. Was not asked about MCAT, grades, or the like. And I wasn't a stellar applicant either (3.4-3.6 cGPA, unbalanced 25 MCAT). But, I'm just one person.

 

[IslandStyle808]

N=1 but during the interviews I attended (in military uniform), I was asked pretty specific questions about my deployments. Was not asked about MCAT, grades, or the like. And I wasn't a stellar applicant either (3.4-3.6 cGPA, unbalanced 25 MCAT). But, I'm just one person.

I remember from one video that the interviewer really liked it when they came in uniform. So I guess there is an "air" that people from the military give that make them very attractive applicants.

Thank you for you service and it was great to know your experiences helped you during the interview.

 

[el_duderino]

In my limited experience, service seems to be quite highly valued in the medical community.

 

[Poro]

Got in applying late (Dec-Jan), with ~3.0 (most of it community college classes), 28 MCAT in a single cycle. Only got two DO interviews (both during the very last interview cohort for both schools), was the standby seat at one of them and ended up getting deferred to C/O 2019 because no one was absent during C/O 2018 orientation. I am convinced that it's as much of a dice roll as it is having better stats, but it helps to make the most of small details when you finally get a shot (blow away interviews, very good personal statements, good letters of recs etc.).

Forgot to add that I reapplied and added MD schools June following year (before I knew about the standby seat) and ended up getting an interview sometime in November. Apply early!

Mind sharing your EC's? I'm in a similar situation as you stat wise, but feeling nervous as I dont feel competitive compared to other applicants

 

[redj]

N=1 but during the interviews I attended (in military uniform), I was asked pretty specific questions about my deployments. Was not asked about MCAT, grades, or the like. And I wasn't a stellar applicant either (3.4-3.6 cGPA, unbalanced 25 MCAT). But, I'm just one person.

Ok cool. only had 1 deployment and got out bout 3 years ago so idk if Id wear my stuff (not applying till next cycle.) Were you still in when you interviewed?
any boost is a good boost for me.

 

[wxman393]

Ok cool. only had 1 deployment and got out bout 3 years ago so idk if Id wear my stuff (not applying till next cycle.) Were you still in when you interviewed?
any boost is a good boost for me.

Yes, I was still on AD up until a few days before starting med school. I transitioned to the ARNG to go to school. Not sure about the whole dynamics about wearing the uniform as a Veteran. I've seen some retired folks wear their uniforms to interviews but I haven't run across any Veterans who did X number of years and wore the uniform. AR 670-1 (for Army at least) might be able to provide some better guidance. Thanks for your service btw. And, no such thing as "only one deployment". You volunteered your time and that is definitely worth something, IMO.

 

[asdf123g]

I went to an open house and one of the students who was ex military (subtly) made it sound like he was gifted admission because he was military.

 

[redj]

Yes, I was still on AD up until a few days before starting med school. I transitioned to the ARNG to go to school. Not sure about the whole dynamics about wearing the uniform as a Veteran. I've seen some retired folks wear their uniforms to interviews but I haven't run across any Veterans who did X number of years and wore the uniform. AR 670-1 (for Army at least) might be able to provide some better guidance. Thanks for your service btw. And, no such thing as "only one deployment". You volunteered your time and that is definitely worth something, IMO.

Thank you brother. That makes sense then that you wore it since still active. Ill probably stick with my regular suit not a fan of looking at 670-1 lol. Was it at all the DO schools that they brought up your deployments?

 

[redj]

I went to an open house and one of the students who was ex military (subtly) made it sound like he was gifted admission because he was military.

Really? that doesnt sound right.

 

[asdf123g]

Really? that doesnt sound right.

just telling you what I saw. Im sure he didnt have abysmal stats but it sounded like he didnt have stats that were on par with the schools average GPA or MCAT (a "lower tier" school). He also said they waived his deposit and paid for his hotel or something..cant really remember about the hotel thing. He got some "hush up" looks from the administration IIRC but he already said it.

 

[redj]

just telling you what I saw. Im sure he didnt have abysmal stats but it sounded like he didnt have stats that were on par with the schools average GPA or MCAT (a "lower tier" school). He also said they waived his deposit and paid for his hotel or something..cant really remember about the hotel thing. He got some "hush up" looks from the administration IIRC but he already said it.

Oh Not doesn't sound right as in I think your wrong! doesn't sound right as in him being gifted all that stuff from the school if he really was. Like school shouldnt of done it

 

[asdf123g]

Oh Not doesn't sound right as in I think your wrong! doesn't sound right as in him being gifted all that stuff from the school if he really was. Like school shouldnt of done it

he seemed like a really good guy and super humble. I mean...good for him? Its nice to see schools helping out the vets/Active duty.

 

[jl lin]

If the vet can meet the demands, I say good for him/her! I mean vets pretty much gets screwed for putting their lives on the line--and even when they do and then get injured, it's such a freaking battle for them.

I don't have a problem with helping out the vets/active duty people if they are mentally intact and can do the MS/clinical work. Now if they have serious PTS issues, well, they had better have them under control; just b/c healthcare and the patients and even people working in it sometime can make the healthiest person in the world want to seriously snap.

 

[redj]

If demands are met then yes. It Seemed to me reading your post (which if you say he was humble then I read it wrong)that he came across as bragging when he was saying things. Like i said ill take the boost if i can get one. But have to meet the standards at least.

 

[redj]

There's no restriction for wearing it when you get it. From what I understand, that has to do with some court ruling about 1st amendment. In my opinion though I think it would be really weird for someone it if the military to wear the uniform. If you used to be a cop would you show up in a police uniform?

That was my thinking as well. Schools might be like " why is the guy with the beard still wearing his uniform when hes clearing been out for awhile?"

 

[echo87]

Lol this discussion is like the opposite of the military med forum

 

[asdf123g]

Lol this discussion is like the opposite of the military med forum

what makes you say that? Those guys are hilarious!!!

 

[jl lin]

There's no restriction for wearing it when you get it. From what I understand, that has to do with some court ruling about 1st amendment. In my opinion though I think it would be really weird for someone it if the military to wear the uniform. If you used to be a cop would you show up in a police uniform?

I am not sure, but don't they have to wear uniform when they are on AD?

 

[jl lin]

If I were an adcom I'd give you more points for an awesome beard than for a uniform

Yea, but these people also have a military record, and in many cases, they are living by a higher standard, in general, b/c they are always being evaluated when they are in there. IOWs, they have they military record, which could help them, hurt them, or just be so, so.