Why are acceptance rates for osteopathic schools so low?

[Mbeas]

You should head Mbeas's advice and take heroine ASAP
Also a good many DO students rail against OMM as well.... it seems to be pre-DO and MS-0 types alone that get excited about it.

So using heroine, an illegal drug with many known (dangerous) side effects, as a counterargument to my statement is reasonable? I think not.

Do you think it is fair that I detest OMM before I've had the first class just because many osteopathic students don't like it? Should I form an (extreme) opinion about it's use when I've yet to receive a formal education about it?

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[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I agree that the OMM is a drawback for Osteopathic education. However, since Osteopathic schools are more "non-trad" friendly, I would prefer to go to an Osteopathic school than to an Allopathic one. I would find it more difficult socially to be the old one among mostly young people. I think it's important in medical school to feel comfortable and not out of place. I will need to blow off steam with others while sitting around knitting (now don't laugh), baking together and taking walks. I'm not saying that younger people won't want to do these things ever, but mostly different age groups are into different types of activities. I guess if I want to be in my comfort zone, I will have to endure the OMM (grin and bear it). It's hard to understand why it persists despite so many objections (ah...but that's fodder for another thread).

..... 90% of DO students are from the 20-26 age bracket last time I checked. In fact the average age of an OMS-1 is just 2 years higher than a MS-1, so this is a really moot point. And again, this notion of being more non-trad friendly is really more bunk than anything.

 

[7175pank]

So using OMM, an illegal drug with many known side effects, as a counterargument to my statement is reasonable? I think not.

Do you think it is fair that I detest heroine before I've had the first class just because many osteopathic students don't like it? Should I form an (extreme) opinion about it's use when I've yet to receive a formal education about it?

lol. Couldn't resist.

I'd counter that wasting time with OMM, which has questionable uses and efficacy outside of 'A.T. Still said so', is silly when the whole point of going to med school is learning how to use methods that have been proven to work in treating illness. Maybe you should give naturopathy and homeopathy a chance too because, well, you can't knock it until you try it right?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I criticize heroine use frequently but that might not be applicable.

Well except we understand Heroin's effects quite well known and publicly available. OMM generally is not as well researched and something you probably cannot google to completely understand.

lol. Couldn't resist.

I'd counter that wasting time with OMM, which has questionable uses and efficacy outside of 'A.T. Still said so', is silly when the whole point of going to med school is learning how to use methods that have been proven to work in treating illness. Maybe you should give naturopathy and homeopathy a chance too because, well, you can't knock it until you try it right?

I would generally agree honestly, as someone interested in going into a field that involves little palpitation or touching of patients I think it generally would be an annoying class to take as I probably will continuously whine about how I don't ever need to know this stuff. But oh well, I'm willing to give it a chance and it might prove helpful at least in helping the spouse out with backpain or something..

 

[Mbeas]

Maybe you should give naturopathy and homeopathy a chance too because, well, you can't knock it until you try it right?

I have no interest in learning naturopathy or homeopathy. If I did, I would go to a school that teaches such. Furthermore, as mentioned above, scientific opinions about these two examples are much more clear than is the case with OMM.

If you don't want to learn OMM and you want to call it bull****, then go to an MD school. Seriously, don't waste your time unless you have some masochistic tendencies.

 

[willen101383]

You should head Mbeas's advice and take heroine ASAP
Also a good many DO students rail against OMM as well.... it seems to be pre-DO and MS-0 types alone that get excited about it.

Because they dont realize what a ridiculous waste of time and pain in the ass it is. Unless you are going to become an OMM specialist family med doc you arent going to benefit from OMM. There are so many damn techniques that I cant even remember techniques I learned 3 months ago..let alone 10 years down the road. Do I have a superior anatomical knowledge compared to my MD classmates? Eh. I would say no. The only thing I think I am likely better at is being able to visualize how the bones and muscles move. Thats about it. The whole "palpation" skills argument is a bunch of BS as well. I worked as a phlebotomist and clinical lab technologist for close to 10 years before I went to med school and can get blood out of a stone....id say I have incredible "palpatory skillz yo"...and I still cant feel 99% of the crap they expect me to feel (aka its likely in their heads). A lot of OMM lab will be spent pretending you feel things to just get the OMM professors to leave you alone so you can go back to talking to your friends.

Just like any other part of becoming a physician, more jumping through a bunch of BS hoops.

 

[7175pank]

Well except we understand Heroin's effects quite well known and publicly available. OMM generally is not as well researched and something you probably cannot google to completely understand.

The mechanisms of the placebo effect are still quite unknown as well. That doesn't automatically equate to good medicine.

 

[7175pank]

Seriously, don't waste your time unless you have some masochistic tendencies.

I want to. Really bad. But they might not let me in :/

As to the masochistic tendencies I am a pre-med.

 

[willen101383]

..... 90% of DO students are from the 20-26 age bracket last time I checked. In fact the average age of an OMS-1 is just 2 years higher than a MS-1, so this is a really moot point. And again, this notion of being more non-trad friendly is really more bunk than anything.

I wouldnt say they are non trad friendly, they are more interested about life experiences than most MD schools. As in, they are willing to put your grades aside to some degree if youve been involved with some cool stuff. I am a non trad by definition but at 28 I dont think of myself as some old head. They were incredibly interested in my work experience....I dont even think we ever talked about my poor ass undergrad grades once....at any DO interview...but my life experiences came up a lot. Anecdotal..yes..but it seems to support the theory.

And 90% of my class are fresh out of college 22/23 year old kids. The next common age group would be mine...like 28-31 or so...and then the jump is huge...like 40s or higher.

 

[Mbeas]

I want to, really bad. But they might not let me in :/

As to the masochistic tendencies I am a pre-med.

Agree with the second part. LOL

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

The mechanisms of the placebo effect are still quite unknown as well. That doesn't automatically equate to good medicine.

Actually I think there's been a good amount of Biopsychological research in regard to placebo effect. But regardless, there are likely a few OMM techniques that may hold their weight and be useful, but that being said there are many treatments current used for diseases that are not fully understood.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I want to. Really bad. But they might not let me in :/

As to the masochistic tendencies I am a pre-med.

Yup, damn recession driving up applicant standards. Why couldn't we have applied in 2006 when the averages were like 6 LizzyM points lower?

 

[7175pank]

Yup, damn recession driving up applicant standards. Why couldn't we have applied in 2006 when the averages were like 6 LizzyM points lower?

I would have just gotten out of high school but seriously...

 

[SpecterGT260]

So using heroine, an illegal drug with many known (dangerous) side effects, as a counterargument to my statement is reasonable? I think not.

Do you think it is fair that I detest OMM before I've had the first class just because many osteopathic students don't like it? Should I form an (extreme) opinion about it's use when I've yet to receive a formal education about it?

im going out to drink a beer and grill in this awesome spring weather. I will get back to you tonight, but in the mean time look at the context of what was said and try to see why your post is not exactly reasonable

 

[7175pank]

Actually I think there's been a good amount of Biopsychological research in regard to placebo effect. But regardless, there are likely a few OMM techniques that may hold their weight and be useful, but that being said there are many treatments current used for diseases that are not fully understood.

I'm fully aware of the last sentence but from what I've been reading about OMM and the way it's taught still seems pretty hand wavy.

 

[Mbeas]

im going out to drink a beer and grill in this awesome spring weather. I will get back to you tonight, but in the mean time look at the context of what was said and try to see why your post is not exactly reasonable

I'm not going to argue over petty semantics. That's just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Enjoy the beer. I had a fair share of some ol' fashion Blue Moon last night

 

[SpecterGT260]

some people demonize arguing and yet retain an active SDN account even when not actively pursuing information

the only point was that "dont knock it till you try it" is not a valid argument.... as it swings both ways, you probably shouldnt also irrationally defend something you havent tried as i said before, a good number (if not a majority) of DO students knock OMM as well. I'm just siding with the experts on this one

 

[SpecterGT260]

I'm fully aware of the last sentence but from what I've been reading about OMM and the way it's taught still seems pretty hand wavy.

there are some parts to OMM that have very reasonable mechanisms behind them. There are also some that dont
that said, I cannot see any situation where OMM stands to be curative in any real way... I don't expect it to be any more effective than a short acting pain reliever.

 

[paradigms]

400 acceptances is 5.7% of 7000. just on the mental math side you would expect something around 700 acceptances out of an app pool of 7000 to get near 10% as you did.

I wasn't using 7000 when I came to the 8.8%, I did the calculation when I was at PCOM's open house last week, Lol. They had the numbers on their presentation. But with the numbers they gave us for how many applied, I came out with 8.8%. I think the number was closer to 4600 applicants.

 

[SpecterGT260]

thats fair I suppose.

 

[Mbeas]

some people demonize arguing and yet retain an active SDN account even when not actively pursuing information

the only point was that "dont knock it till you try it" is not a valid argument.... as it swings both ways, you probably shouldnt also irrationally defend something you havent tried as i said before, a good number (if not a majority) of DO students knock OMM as well. I'm just siding with the experts on this one

I'm not defending OMM, per se. I'm saying that I'm not going to unjustifiably bash it. It's not quite the same since I remain neutral about the topic. A majority opinion about a topic isn't a means of justification, unfortunately. A lot of med students don't like anatomy class (albeit for a different reason), but the principle is the same. I'm not going to become automatically intimidated by anatomy just because you guys ("the experts") tell me how difficult it is. Let me be the judge of that. Let me formulate my own opinion. I don't need to be spoon fed opinions.

 

[willen101383]

I wasn't using 7000 when I came to the 8.8%, I did the calculation when I was at PCOM's open house last week, Lol. They had the numbers on their presentation. But with the numbers they gave us for how many applied, I came out with 8.8%. I think the number was closer to 4600 applicants.

My class had 6400ish apps...the class of 2015 had a few hundred more. So i significantly doubt it dropped off that much from the prior two years.

 

[willen101383]

I'm not defending OMM, per se. I'm saying that I'm not going to unjustifiably bash it. It's not quite the same since I remain neutral about the topic. A majority opinion about a topic isn't a means of justification, unfortunately. A lot of med students don't like anatomy class (albeit for a different reason), but the principle is the same. I'm not going to become automatically intimidated by anatomy just because you guys ("the experts") tell me how difficult it is. Let me be the judge of that. Let me formulate my own opinion. I don't need to be spoon fed opinions.

Anatomy=the easiest class in med school

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Anatomy=the easiest class in med school

I wish this were true....

 

[05091116]

ATSU-SOMA got somewhere in the neighborhood of 6K apps, there are ~100 seats.

I like to think of it like college football. MD is like the BCS conferences. They only take highly touted athletes, and most of the time thy works well for them. DO is like Boise State etc. they see potential in guys that the bigger schools would take a pass on, coach them up, and THEY turn them into highly touted athletes.

Either way, I think anyone who gets the chance to attend (DO or MD) is lucky and should feel proud.

Awesome way to look at it! I really appreciate this quote

 

[lacrosse87]

I like your thinking, and I totally empathize with you. The funny thing is that I can see the difference in the types of people who go to either allo or osteo right here on SDN. I'd argue the DO board is much more pleasant to post on and the content much more intriguing.

It's nice to be able to have conversations with people who actually have experience in the 'real world' and weren't cooped up in a university for the entirety of their adult life.[/QUOTE]

Agree with this. As a whole group, I find pre-meds to be pretty insufferable. I think it's the very large stick up their ass. Maybe I'm more laid back than the avg pre-med, idk. I think what annoys me is the condemning attitudes towards anything not touted by the US News Report, their neurotic tendencies, their inability to swallow a chill pill, their relatively sheltered outlook on life and medicine despite their 93151 hrs/wk shadowing, and their sense of entitlement. If you're having trouble observing this in real life, try reading pre-allo.

As much as I think Penn Med would be an awesome place to go to med school, you have to think about the people you'd have to be classmates with. With the avg person having something like a 3.9 GPA and 36 MCAT, they most likely did not have any life in undergrad (Not saying everyone...but I would argue a relatively higher proportion than a "less selective" medical school). And this is generally what I've observed while working in the Penn Health System. The rotating med students I've met have ranged from "cool nontrad that just got in in his late 20's, interesting guy" to "boring..yawn" to "med student resembling a small dog following the Attending..wait..omg, it's trying to hump the attendings leg...bad dog!" to "I went to undergrad in a small, little known school in Boston...you know...Harvard (self gratified look)" to more "boring, self-important/masturbatory personalities"

Not saying DO schools won't have this type of pre-med turned med student...I just think there will most likely be a lower proportion. Which is a huge positive

 

[willen101383]

I wish this were true....

I was srs. I thought it was easy. Most on campus time/time spent in lab...but at that point you are all fresh faced and ready to go...I had no problem doing well in it. I miss those "weeee im in med school yay i love my life" days haha. Now its just like ughhh im so sick of this crap, i hate all my classmates. I am on my last week of finals forever right now and then 4 weeks till usmle/comlex and then rotations wooooo.

 

[willen101383]

I like your thinking, and I totally empathize with you. The funny thing is that I can see the difference in the types of people who go to either allo or osteo right here on SDN. I'd argue the DO board is much more pleasant to post on and the content much more intriguing.

It's nice to be able to have conversations with people who actually have experience in the 'real world' and weren't cooped up in a university for the entirety of their adult life.[/QUOTE]

Agree with this. As a whole group, I find pre-meds to be pretty insufferable. I think it's the very large stick up their ass. Maybe I'm more laid back than the avg pre-med, idk. I think what annoys me is the condemning attitudes towards anything not touted by the US News Report, their neurotic tendencies, their inability to swallow a chill pill, their relatively sheltered outlook on life and medicine despite their 93151 hrs/wk shadowing, and their sense of entitlement. If you're having trouble observing this in real life, try reading pre-allo.

As much as I think Penn Med would be an awesome place to go to med school, you have to think about the people you'd have to be classmates with. With the avg person having something like a 3.9 GPA and 36 MCAT, they most likely did not have any life in undergrad (Not saying everyone...but I would argue a relatively higher proportion than a "less selective" medical school). And this is generally what I've observed while working in the Penn Health System. The rotating med students I've met have ranged from "cool nontrad that just got in in his late 20's, interesting guy" to "boring..yawn" to "med student resembling a small dog following the Attending..wait..omg, it's trying to hump the attendings leg...bad dog!" to "I went to undergrad in a small, little known school in Boston...you know...Harvard (self gratified look)" to more "boring, self-important/masturbatory personalities"

Not saying DO schools won't have this type of pre-med turned med student...I just think there will most likely be a lower proportion. Which is a huge positive

Its fcking annoying that any time I tell someone in this city that I am in med school they are ALWAYS (seriously like 9/10 times) "oh penn?." No PCOM.....oh where is that? lol

Ive started to tell people I go to jeff just so I dont have to bother explaining anything.

There are plenty of self masturbatory types at DO schools. Yeah you might not get the "I summer on the cape" types as much but you still have plenty of people that think they are the ****. "Well I am an EMT B" or "When I shadowed in the ER"...or something of the like is something you will get sick of hearing very quickly. I know a kid who literally lists every "accomplishment" hes ever had since his freshman year of ugrad in his e mail signature. I **** you not its something like 10 lines long. Douchebaggery abound Not to mention the tools who feel the need to ask questions every lecture for no apparent reason just so they can hear their own voice. Its esepcially annoying if you are older and actually had a real career and ARE awesome...like me for example . No but seriously I had a med student last week argue with me over something I did professionally for almost a decade because of something he misread in robbins. It comes with the territory.

 

[lacrosse87]

I know a kid who literally lists every "accomplishment" hes ever had since his freshman year of ugrad in his e mail signature. I **** you not its something like 10 lines long.

Wow

 

[7175pank]

Its fcking annoying that any time I tell someone in this city that I am in med school they are ALWAYS (seriously like 9/10 times) "oh penn?." No PCOM.....oh where is that? lol

Ive started to tell people I go to jeff just so I dont have to bother explaining anything.

There are plenty of self masturbatory types at DO schools. Yeah you might not get the "I summer on the cape" types as much but you still have plenty of people that think they are the ****. "Well I am an EMT B" or "When I shadowed in the ER"...or something of the like is something you will get sick of hearing very quickly. I know a kid who literally lists every "accomplishment" hes ever had since his freshman year of ugrad in his e mail signature. I **** you not its something like 10 lines long. Douchebaggery abound Not to mention the tools who feel the need to ask questions every lecture for no apparent reason just so they can hear their own voice. Its esepcially annoying if you are older and actually had a real career and ARE awesome...like me for example . No but seriously I had a med student last week argue with me over something I did professionally for almost a decade because of something he misread in robbins. It comes with the territory.

Heh... heheh... hehehehe

I was kind of hoping that that was just an archetype found exclusively on SDN. Most of the pre-meds I met in real-life actually seemed fairly chill and level-headed. Then again when I'm not intentionally taking time off of work to study the joys of plant embryology for my final exam today at 7:00pm (w00t!, w00t!) I don't spend much time with pre-meds outside of SDN.

 

[willen101383]

Wow

Its hilarious because its **** like "Coolest pre med award" and trivial crap like that. Signature= ur name, a phone number, and your role. Thats it. I just laugh that these people send administration types e mails with this trivial garbage.

 

[COMedic2Doc]

There are plenty of self masturbatory types at DO schools. Yeah you might not get the "I summer on the cape" types as much but you still have plenty of people that think they are the ****. "Well I am an EMT B" or "When I shadowed in the ER"...or something of the like is something you will get sick of hearing very quickly. I know a kid who literally lists every "accomplishment" hes ever had since his freshman year of ugrad in his e mail signature. I **** you not its something like 10 lines long. Douchebaggery abound Not to mention the tools who feel the need to ask questions every lecture for no apparent reason just so they can hear their own voice. Its esepcially annoying if you are older and actually had a real career and ARE awesome...like me for example . No but seriously I had a med student last week argue with me over something I did professionally for almost a decade because of something he misread in robbins. It comes with the territory.

OMG, really? LOL..... Yes I can definitely see myself getting irritated with the same discussions. Why is it that those that have no real experience feel that if they list every accomplishment they'll stand out as being awesome? Personally, I hate getting into discussions about this..... Eh where's my Vadar pic when I need it (You STFU...) for these situations.

 

[Mbeas]

I was srs. I thought it was easy. Most on campus time/time spent in lab...but at that point you are all fresh faced and ready to go...I had no problem doing well in it. I miss those "weeee im in med school yay i love my life" days haha. Now its just like ughhh im so sick of this crap, i hate all my classmates. I am on my last week of finals forever right now and then 4 weeks till usmle/comlex and then rotations wooooo.

Like.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

 

[lacrosse87]

OMG, really? LOL..... Yes I can definitely see myself getting irritated with the same discussions. Why is it that those that have no real experience feel that if they list every accomplishment they'll stand out as being awesome? Personally, I hate getting into discussions about this..... Eh where's my Vadar pic when I need it (You STFU...) for these situations.

Eeep, that wasn't posted by me, that was by willen

 

[SpecterGT260]

the quote tabs just got screwed up. It kept your name from where willen quoted you.

 

[Bisbee]

It certainly sounds like a lot of "posturing" with classmates trying to make sure everyone knows how smart and accomplished they are. Whenever someone acts like that, though, I'm tempted to say, "Ooops! I think your insecurities are showing!" because that's where it's coming from. When some people feel stressed, overwhelmed, not sure of their capabilities, that's how it comes out. It's the most insecure individuals who brag the most. Those people are hard to be around, but I find it easier when I remember why they're acting this way. I'm sure that the stress of med school can bring out the worst in anyone.

 

[pre med 2014]

If you go to MD predictor, you'll see that anyone has a good chance of getting in somewhere.

 

[dmarie12012]

Agreed with post above ^ If you apply to any one DO school in the state where you live you have a 30-40% chance of getting accepted. Just look at eduers.com http://www.eduers.com/Medical/Flori...iversity_College_of_Osteopathic_Medicine.html
At Nova in FL 516 applied IN STATE and 160 were accepted. That's a 31% acceptance rate. LECOM in FL 940 applied and 321 were accepted that's a 35% acceptance. So if someone who lives in Florida applies to these two osteopathic school they have a combined 75% chance of getting into one of them. That's not bad and nowhere near 10% so I don't know what the first post is talking about.

 

[HockeyDr09]

Double post.

 

[HockeyDr09]

That's not a 75% chance, you can't add the percentages like that.... That means if both schools had a 50% acceptance rate you'd have a 100% chance. Even better, if both schools had a 75% acceptance rate you'd have a 150% chance! You also have 0% chance if you don't have decent grades. You can't make these assumptions.

 

[MedPR]

That's not a 75% chance, you can't add the percentages like that.... You also have 0% chance if you don't have decent grades. You can't make these assumptions.

Sent from my EVO using SDN Mobile

This. However, the notion that DO acceptance rates are low (compared to MD) is preposterous.

 

[JoAyi]

A direct quote during my orientation before M1 year "People will tell you that PCOM is the Harvard of the DO world...well they have it wrong, Harvard is the PCOM of the allo world" lol psh

Does it mean that PCOM has the best match results?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Does it mean that PCOM has the best match results?

Far from it, but PCOM is in the position to provide you both an amazing education and connections.

 

[coolingglasses]

Agreed with post above ^ If you apply to any one DO school in the state where you live you have a 30-40% chance of getting accepted. Just look at eduers.com http://www.eduers.com/Medical/Flori...iversity_College_of_Osteopathic_Medicine.html
At Nova in FL 516 applied IN STATE and 160 were accepted. That's a 31% acceptance rate. LECOM in FL 940 applied and 321 were accepted that's a 35% acceptance. So if someone who lives in Florida applies to these two osteopathic school they have a combined 75% chance of getting into one of them. That's not bad and nowhere near 10% so I don't know what the first post is talking about.

dude no :|

 

[Skeeks]

I am applying MD and DO. I am not the most competitive person out there, but I think I have a decent shot at both (31m 3.6cGPA 3.4sGPA and lots of ECs).

I am not ashamed to say that if I decide to go to a DO school for whatever reason (I get rejected from my 5 MD schools, or I just like one of my 5 DO schools more) that I would be very excited about learning OMM. If you dont beleive all the federally funded research that supports many of the techniques you are blinding yourself to its potential. Sure its not the most applicable thing in every specialty, but since when does a med student graduate to use EVERYTHING he learned in med school? I agree, dont judge unless you know everything there is to know about it (and comparing this to heroine is a little silly dont you think?).

 

[SpecterGT260]

I am applying MD and DO. I am not the most competitive person out there, but I think I have a decent shot at both (31m 3.6cGPA 3.4sGPA and lots of ECs).

I am not ashamed to say that if I decide to go to a DO school for whatever reason (I get rejected from my 5 MD schools, or I just like one of my 5 DO schools more) that I would be very excited about learning OMM. If you dont beleive all the federally funded research that supports many of the techniques you are blinding yourself to its potential. Sure its not the most applicable thing in every specialty, but since when does a med student graduate to use EVERYTHING he learned in med school? I agree, dont judge unless you know everything there is to know about it (and comparing this to heroine is a little silly dont you think?).

I'm not aware of federally funded research. Examples?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile

 

[Skeeks]

This. However, the notion that DO acceptance rates are low (compared to MD) is preposterous.

Its actually not. If you look at the number of applicants from 2011 and divide that by the number of schools it is much higher than if you do the same for MD school. My guess would be that there are a lot more "hopefuls" applying to DO schools who havn't a chance of getting in anywhere.

...Not trying to be cynical....

 

[Skeeks]

I'm not aware of federally funded research. Examples?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile

There is a whole Osteopathic research center that is federally funded and does lots of research just go to the following link for their most recent studies:

http://www.hsc.unt.edu/orc/research_completed.aspx

 

[SpecterGT260]

There is a whole Osteopathic research center that is federally funded and does lots of research just go to the following link for their most recent studies:

http://www.hsc.unt.edu/orc/research_completed.aspx

Gotcha. Technically yes, being NIH funded is government funded. When you said "government funded research" I was thinking more along the lines of funded and investigated, similar to pubs by the CDC or something like that. That is a private organization who has been awarded NIH grants.

There is also a huge "privately funded" list after about a dozen entries of federally funded.

 

[krispy]

"Osteopathic schools receive 3.5 applicants for each person admitted compared with 2.4 for allopathic schools. Even though acceptance into osteopathic schools is more competitive than acceptance into allopathic (MD) schools, osteopathic school admissions committees are more geared towards identifying other variables besides grades and test scores, a process intended to produce more empathic physicians."

From the Kaplan website, actually read this last night and did a double take about the competitiveness. But, it does make sense in light of what we're talking about.


(source: http://www.kaptest.com/MCAT/Get-Into-Med-School/Research-Med-Schools/osteopathic-option.html)