Why Dental School (and everything else) Costs So Much

[persenmi]

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I watched a video someone else posted about the college debt bubble and found a few other videos that are very interesting. I highly reccommend that you check them out because they shed a lot of light on the mystery as to why d-school (and everything else) is so damn expensive 🙂.

These videos tell the same exact story in a different way. The first is a short, fast paced, cartoon that only deals with the most important facts. The second is a much longer documentary by esteemed author and film maker Bill Still, that covers every detail of the long history and provides citations of where the information came from. If you have the time, please watch the second video because you will take much more from it 👍!

The American Dream:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGk5ioEXlIM

and

The Money Masters: How International Bankers Gained Control of America
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXb-LrVkuwM

 

[DentalJedi]

Cool video. So basically it's saying that the Rothschilds (a Jewish family) have conspired to control governments, peoples, and even kill JFK. Here's another article that agrees with a lot of that stuff the video says.

https://firstlightforum.wordpress.com/rothschild-conspiracy-timeline/

If you couldn't tell, it's associated with a neo-natzi group. I don't want to be mean because I'm hoping you just didn't see what they were saying, but the whole second half of the movie was basically a subtle version of the same old "the Jews control the world" bs that hate groups have been spewing for decades.

 

[dmdluffy]

I watched a video someone else posted about the college debt bubble and found a few other videos that are very interesting. I highly reccommend that you check them out because they shed a lot of light on the mystery as to why d-school (and everything else) is so damn expensive 🙂.

These videos tell the same exact story in a different way. The first is a short, fast paced, cartoon that only deals with the most important facts. The second is a much longer documentary by esteemed author and film maker Bill Still, that covers every detail of the long history and provides citations of where the information came from. If you have the time, please watch the second video because you will take much more from it 👍!

The American Dream:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGk5ioEXlIM

and

The Money Masters: How International Bankers Gained Control of America
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXb-LrVkuwM

I always just thought d school was expensive cause we have labs, clinics, and tons of material/equipment we need for our four year education compared to med school where its just didactic at school and the rest of your training occurs at hospitals.

 

[UCLAzy]

I always just thought d school was expensive cause we have labs, clinics, and tons of material/equipment we need for our four year education compared to med school where its just didactic at school and the rest of your training occurs at hospitals.

you're just trying to rationalize it.

the fact of the matter is...if you went to dental school 10 years ago you might have paid as little as 20% of what they charge currently.

scam? 👍

 

[dmdluffy]

you're just trying to rationalize it.

the fact of the matter is...if you went to dental school 10 years ago you might have paid as little as 20% of what they charge currently.

scam? 👍

Touche... I think I'm going to cry myself to sleep tonight with dreams of USC's and NYU's tuition haha

 

[polola55]

you're just trying to rationalize it.

the fact of the matter is...if you went to dental school 10 years ago you might have paid as little as 20% of what they charge currently.

scam? 👍

Have you include the inflation rate of our currency over the years?

 

[MrAvicii]

who cares? after d-school you'll still make over 100K a year (meaning 5K clean a month) thats MORE than enough to pay off the loans and life comfy. dont get paranoid people! its a lot worse for those in law school (they spend 200K in loans) and have 40K jobs while struggling to move out of their parents house.

 

[hellopeople]

you're just trying to rationalize it.

the fact of the matter is...if you went to dental school 10 years ago you might have paid as little as 20% of what they charge currently.

scam? 👍

I wouldn't call it a scam. As an investment, it's too fiscally sound to be considered a scam. Maybe the private schools are taking advantage of the new demand for d-school. But, I do think the jump in price has a lot to do with the cost of updating these expensive facilities in a time of rapid technological advancement in the field.

 

[gmcguitar4]

you're just trying to rationalize it.

the fact of the matter is...if you went to dental school 10 years ago you might have paid as little as 20% of what they charge currently.

scam? 👍

yea man inflation is the main cause of that...and supply and demand.

 

[DentalJedi]

yea man inflation is the main cause of that...and supply and demand.

👍 Throw in the government guaranteeing loans for professional students, and you get a big spike in costs.

 

[UCLAzy]

I wouldn't call it a scam. As an investment, it's too fiscally sound to be considered a scam. Maybe the private schools are taking advantage of the new demand for d-school. But, I do think the jump in price has a lot to do with the cost of updating these expensive facilities in a time of rapid technological advancement in the field.

i think the funniest thing about the whole situation is how confident people are that they'll be able to pay it all back. 'because the people who previously went to dschool could pay it back, i'm sure i'll be able to!' what you dont realize is that those people were facing debt, but not to the extent that students are today. i dont know how fiscally sound it is to take on a debt that will take you more than 15 years to pay off, if you're paying off aggressively.

if you think the rise in cost is just for 'updating facilities' can you explain why undergrad tuition is also rising faster than inflation rates? what about med school tuition?

yea man inflation is the main cause of that...and supply and demand.

you're absolutely right! except in the wrong way. tuition is crazy inflated! but not because of the FED printing more money.

as for supply and demand..i thought that increasing supply (more private dental schools opening) decreases demand, which should then cause a decrease in price. it's been a while since i took econ though..

 

[UCLAzy]

one other thing..in order to have more money available to students pursuing an undergraduate degree, graduate student loans from the government that are subsidized are no longer going to exist (not sure if it's passed, but trust, it will -- nobody on the hill seems to care about students). that means your interest starts to accrue from D1 day 1 at 6.8%!

i guess it doesnt matter though cuz dentistry guarantees $100k+ ............right?

 

[hellopeople]

i think the funniest thing about the whole situation is how confident people are that they'll be able to pay it all back. 'because the people who previously went to dschool could pay it back, i'm sure i'll be able to!' what you dont realize is that those people were facing debt, but not to the extent that students are today. i dont know how fiscally sound it is to take on a debt that will take you more than 15 years to pay off, if you're paying off aggressively.

if you think the rise in cost is just for 'updating facilities' can you explain why undergrad tuition is also rising faster than inflation rates? what about med school tuition?



you're absolutely right! except in the wrong way. tuition is crazy inflated! but not because of the FED printing more money.

as for supply and demand..i thought that increasing supply (more private dental schools opening) decreases demand, which should then cause a decrease in price. it's been a while since i took econ though..

I didn't say that updating facilities was the sole cause of national tuition increases. I also didn't base my decision to enter d-school on previous success stories. I just assumed 350K debt with a 90K salary, decided it was manageable, and decided it was a reasonable place to begin building a career from.

What investment sounds better to you? What field would be better to pursue?

I just don't think our outlook is so dismal, but I suppose I'm not an expert.

 

[Kahr]

I just assumed 350K debt with a 90K salary, decided it was manageable, and decided it was a reasonable place to begin building a career from.

Honestly trying to be constructive here, not attack, as your above statement worried me a bit. I think you should speak to your family and a professional who can give you objective analytical opinions to base your decision off of (you might consider also asking your parents how it feels psychologically to shoulder a large debt, if in fact they've ever had one).

I'm not going to discourage you either way, I just think you should go in very well informed about what you're getting into, not just based on internet research and assumptions. If you've already done both of the aforementioned, then I've nothing left to say, except it's too bad you didn't find a way to have it paid for you in some way (as a fair number of students do), or consider strongly loan repayment programs after school.

 

[persenmi]

Ok. Did anybody watch the videos? You should be discussing that. The main issue is the federal reserve. This is a privately owned bank. IT'S NOT FEDERAL IN ANY WAY. "It is no more federal than federal express." Therefore, does it make sence that the US Gov would give its power to create money and credit to a private bank only to turn around and borrow the money from them...AT INTEREST!? Interest that is paid by the income tax. Yes thats right. Your income is being taxed to pay interest to a private bank that has NOTHING to do with the Federal Gov.

We could vastly cut taxes if we simply ended the fed and restored the money creation powers to the Gov where it belongs.

Also, anybody who mentioned inflation is correct. Inflation is rising prices due to DECREASED PURCHASING POWER OT THE CURRENCY. That is, anybody who holds currency is being robbed of their money slowly but surely. It is an "invisible tax" that is perpetrated by the FED by their loose money lending and printing policies.

 

[UCLAzy]

I didn't say that updating facilities was the sole cause of national tuition increases. I also didn't base my decision to enter d-school on previous success stories. I just assumed 350K debt with a 90K salary, decided it was manageable, and decided it was a reasonable place to begin building a career from.

What investment sounds better to you? What field would be better to pursue?

I just don't think our outlook is so dismal, but I suppose I'm not an expert.

350k + interest.

i never said not to pursue dentistry. i'm just trying to get the point across that you cant just pursue it blindly.

student debt DOES NOT GO AWAY. even if you file for bankrupt. the day it goes away is the day you die and that's not something to take lightly!

also being shackled by 'The Man' for like 25 years isnt really my idea of funsies =\

 

[hellopeople]

Honestly trying to be constructive here, not attack, as your above statement worried me a bit. I think you should speak to your family and a professional who can give you objective analytical opinions to base your decision off of (you might consider also asking your parents how it feels psychologically to shoulder a large debt, if in fact they've ever had one).

I'm not going to discourage you either way, I just think you should go in very well informed about what you're getting into, not just based on internet research and assumptions. If you've already done both of the aforementioned, then I've nothing left to say, except it's too bad you didn't find a way to have it paid for you in some way (as a fair number of students do), or consider strongly loan repayment programs after school.

Thank you for the concern. It seems sincere. Don't worry though, I am attempting to make arrangements to deal with the debt issue. I have been looking at the various loan repayment programs as well as the military scholarship. Also, I will be receiving support for cost-of-living expenses.

The above post was meant to represent the worst reasonably likely outcome. I guess my point was that even under these poor post-graduate conditions, the debt is manageable (if unpleasant).

As for the talking to people with debt, I guess I don't have much experience. My girlfriend's family has a recent dental graduate. She has an absurd level of debt, and she seems to be managing it quite well. I haven't ever really taken much confidence from "I can do it, so can you" arguments though.

 

[hellopeople]

350k + interest.

i never said not to pursue dentistry. i'm just trying to get the point across that you cant just pursue it blindly.

student debt DOES NOT GO AWAY. even if you file for bankrupt. the day it goes away is the day you die and that's not something to take lightly!

also being shackled by 'The Man' for like 25 years isnt really my idea of funsies =\

Yeah, I looked into the ways to get dental school debt discharged legally.
I was concerned that if my career went south, I might be ruining my entire life.
My conclusion: Not unless you are severely disabled in some way.

I guess I feel comfortable with the risk/reward ratio involved in this pursuit. Hopefully I don't get burned by it that belief.

 

[dantemac]

Dental school tuition isn't a scam. It's capitalism. It is a business. Thus, it is expensive.

 

[budentite]

Dental school tuition isn't a scam. It's capitalism. It is a business. Thus, it is expensive.

A-MEN!!!

However, capitalism fails as a system when driven by greed and self-interest.


I'm not familiar with other schools, but how come Boston University Dental has essentially doubled enrollment without expanding the facility, while doubling tuition over the past 10 years? Didn't our country go through 2 recessions in that time? Isn't the 20th century equipment we use cheaper today than it was 10 years ago? Shouldn't the increased enrollment be bringing in more revenue?
How can BU justify a tuition increase of $15,000 since 2005? Are they losing money on the extension dental school they just built in Dubai?

If you started at BUSDM this year and finance your entire dental education through loans, you can easily graduate with $500,000 of debt. Do you have any idea how much pressure you will have on your salary to pay off your loans? It will take you 30 years at a cost of $1.5 million in the end to pay off your dental school debt alone.

Compare that to for example $200,000 of debt, which in the end may cost $350,000 over just 10 years, with lower monthly payments than the above example.

Prospective students are very naive of the financial implications of the spike in cost of education, and dental schools are not at all candid about the issue. It will cost you exponentially in the end, and hopefully the Fed won't further increase student interest rates, and depending on which dental school you attend, you may still be paying off your dental school loans when you should be retiring.

To put it simply, some dental students today will be paying a million dollars in interest on their dental school loans, with monthly payments far exceeding their mortgage until the day they can finally retire. That's a huge financial risk to have hanging over your head for the next 30 years, where you will be pressured every single day to increase production and profitability. I guess for some people, the lucrative potential trumps financial security and independence.

Your studying to be a healthcare provider, not a rich business CEO.

 

[UCLAzy]

Dental school tuition isn't a scam. It's capitalism. It is a business. Thus, it is expensive.

at least you have a positive attitude on getting bent over!

A-MEN!!!

However, capitalism fails as a system when driven by greed and self-interest.


I'm not familiar with other schools, but how come Boston University Dental has essentially doubled enrollment without expanding the facility, while doubling tuition over the past 10 years? Didn't our country go through 2 recessions in that time? Isn't the 20th century equipment we use cheaper today than it was 10 years ago? Shouldn't the increased enrollment be bringing in more revenue?
How can BU justify a tuition increase of $15,000 since 2005? Are they losing money on the extension dental school they just built in Dubai?

If you started at BUSDM this year and finance your entire dental education through loans, you can easily graduate with $500,000 of debt. Do you have any idea how much pressure you will have on your salary to pay off your loans? It will take you 30 years at a cost of $1.5 million in the end to pay off your dental school debt alone.

Compare that to for example $200,000 of debt, which in the end may cost $350,000 over just 10 years, with lower monthly payments than the above example.

Prospective students are very naive of the financial implications of the spike in cost of education, and dental schools are not at all candid about the issue. It will cost you exponentially in the end, and hopefully the Fed won't further increase student interest rates, and depending on which dental school you attend, you may still be paying off your dental school loans when you should be retiring.

To put it simply, some dental students today will be paying a million dollars in interest on their dental school loans, with monthly payments far exceeding their mortgage until the day they can finally retire. That's a huge financial risk to have hanging over your head for the next 30 years, where you will be pressured every single day to increase production and profitability. I guess for some people, the lucrative potential trumps financial security and independence.

Your studying to be a healthcare provider, not a rich business CEO.

finally someone who shares my view and isnt so naive!

 

[Flosstooth]

👍 Throw in the government guaranteeing loans for professional students, and you get a big spike in costs.

This sums it up.

 

[Flosstooth]

Dental school tuition isn't a scam. It's capitalism. It is a business. Thus, it is expensive.

WRONG.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

Tuitions have been bastardized by government intervention.

........end of thread.

 

[dantemac]

The government doesn't care about dental school tuition. Actually, except for some programs in states that provide for kid's dental care, it doesn't really care about national dental care either.

 

[Flosstooth]

The government doesn't care about dental school tuition. Actually, except for some programs in states that provide for kid's dental care, it doesn't really care about national dental care either.

Agreed. I wasn't referring to the delivery of care

When tuition is basically guaranteed by .gov, the normal pressures of a capitalistic market, which would force competitive prices, disappear and fees soar.

Imagine if you were selling a product and .gov would guarantee payment. What incentive would you have to keep prices down?

 

[dantemac]

If you look at really who is in control, it is the banks. And I mean, what bank nowadays is unwilling to give a loan, mortgage, or any type of money away? Dentists are just lucky they will have the income to match the loan payments. As many new graduates with undergrad debt, and people with mortgages know, you may not get so lucky in any other profession.

 

[Flosstooth]

If you look at really who is in control, it is the banks. And I mean, what bank nowadays is unwilling to give a loan, mortgage, or any type of money away? Dentists are just lucky they will have the income to match the loan payments. As many new graduates with undergrad debt, and people with mortgages know, you may not get so lucky in any other profession.

The banks? Banks are only giving out loans or mortgages that are guaranteed by .gov. Ever heard of FannieMae or FreddieMac ? If the banks were risking their own capital...........the current mortgage meltdown would never have happened.

You are correct on the earning potential of dentists and the high likelihood that most DS loans will be paid back. However, there are billions of dollars in student loans.......maybe even trillions...........in non-STEM degrees, that have have very poor potential of payback. This will be a HUGE problem in the near future.

 

[budentite]

I think we are all on the same page but want to clarify things. Yes, the government's policy of guaranteeing grad school loans has allowed this to happen but they are not the ones who decided to jack up tuition. That choice 100% belongs to the schools and their trustees.

It is the schools who have deliberately decided to engage in price gouging for their private interests.

Without the government loans, how else would dental students be able to pay for tuition? Private loans max out at around $45,000. Most people would not be able to attend d-school without the federal loans. The schools are the ones who have abused the government's aid by racking up student debt to enhance their bottom line.

Students and the government (and american taxpayers) are the victims here. The schools are the perpetrators.

 

[Flosstooth]

I think we are all on the same page but want to clarify things. Yes, the government's policy of guaranteeing grad school loans has allowed this to happen but they are not the ones who decided to jack up tuition. That choice falls with the schools and their trustees.

It is the schools who have deliberately decided to engage in price gouging for their private interests.

Without the government loans, how else would dental students be able to pay for tuition? Private loans max out at around $45,000. Most people would not be able to attend d-school without the federal loans. The schools are the ones who have abused the government's aid by racking up student debt to enhance their bottom line.

Students and the government (and american taxpayers) are the victims here. The schools are the perpetrators.

If your premise were true, wouldn't it be the responsibility of .gov to limit student loans, which would in-turn, limit the applicant pool because of an inability to pay......thereby decreasing enrollment and forcing a reset of tuition?

Prices will increase to the point where a consumer will refuse to pay........simple rule of economics.

.gov is the unnatural ingredient in this economic model. As long as .gov is kicking in $$$$$$......prices will continue to soar.

 

[dantemac]

If your premise were true, wouldn't it be the responsibility of .gov to limit student loans, which would in-turn, limit the applicant pool because of an inability to pay......thereby decreasing enrollment and forcing a reset of tuition?

Prices will increase to the point where a consumer will refuse to pay........simple rule of economics.

.gov is the unnatural ingredient in this economic model. As long as .gov is kicking in $$$$$$......prices will continue to soar.

Prices will never increase until no one will pay. Government programs (military, nat'l health corps) and foreign dental schools offer the loan route little competition: If you want to be a dental student, most likely you're going to a US school and taking out loans. End of story.

 

[budentite]

It doesn't matter how high the cost of d-school becomes, there will always be more than enough people who are willing and able to pay the price, even without government loans. The cost of tuition to become a dentist will never be a deterrent.




From the title of this thread, I thought this was a discussion about the cost of dental schools, not some wide-spanning argument about government or the evils of the Federal Reserve.

 

[JLum]

Ok. Did anybody watch the videos? You should be discussing that. The main issue is the federal reserve. This is a privately owned bank. IT'S NOT FEDERAL IN ANY WAY. "It is no more federal than federal express." Therefore, does it make sence that the US Gov would give its power to create money and credit to a private bank only to turn around and borrow the money from them...AT INTEREST!? Interest that is paid by the income tax. Yes thats right. Your income is being taxed to pay interest to a private bank that has NOTHING to do with the Federal Gov.

We could vastly cut taxes if we simply ended the fed and restored the money creation powers to the Gov where it belongs.

Also, anybody who mentioned inflation is correct. Inflation is rising prices due to DECREASED PURCHASING POWER OT THE CURRENCY. That is, anybody who holds currency is being robbed of their money slowly but surely. It is an "invisible tax" that is perpetrated by the FED by their loose money lending and printing policies.

👍
LOL, it's as if you are speaking a foreign language. I agree, but people are clueless man. Read my blog post today if you want to change something. It's the petition to audit the Fed completely, somewhere to start. Many members of Congress have now signed after the partial audit in July showed $16 Trillion were spent on the bailouts. Public support is needed.
All the best,
JL

 

[JLum]

It doesn't matter how high the cost of d-school becomes, there will always be more than enough people who are willing and able to pay the price, even without government loans. The cost of tuition to become a dentist will never be a deterrent.




From the title of this thread, I thought this was a discussion about the cost of dental schools, not some wide-spanning argument about government or the evils of the Federal Reserve.

If serious,