Why do anesthesiologists make so much $$?

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Sublimazing said:
ophthalmic maxillo-surgeon

I can't tell if that would be super specialized...or extensively broad

Eitherway I wouldn't let him near my eyes, my teeth, or my maxillo
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Sublimazing said:
ophthalmic maxillo-surgeon

I can't tell if that would be super specialized...or extensively broad

Eitherway I wouldn't let him near my eyes, my teeth, or my maxillo
Click to expand...

Ophthalmic maxillo-facial surgeon and specialized dentist. He deals with people who have had their faces mutilated in car accidents etc. and also in wisdom teeth removal
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Jackiesaurus92 said:
3) as I said, surgeons I think are way more skilled than anesthesiologists, an thus deserve the relatively high numeration they make. Would you give more credit to the guy who made Microsoft or the guy who installs it for you?
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I'll assume you are genuine and are really interested in an answer so here you go.

The human body is amazingly complex and many things can go wrong during a surgery. If your not involved in medicine I can sort of see why you would say that. Anesthesia from a non informed perspective looks easy because the anesthesiologist with 12 years + of post high school education makes it look easy. In short you don't know what you don't know.

Another way to think of it is if it were truly as easy as it looks then there would be no anesthesiologist, the surgeon (who's way more skilled) would simply do the anesthesia him/herself. The 12+ years of training in anesthesia are needed to know what to do when the poop hits the fan. When something goes wrong in surgery often you may literally have seconds to respond or the patient dies --> that is why anesthesiologists get paid the big bucks, they are the ones who know what to do. There isn't any time to "look it up" or call for help. Either know what to do RIGHT NOW or the patient dies.

I hope this makes sense to you. You may still think anesthesiologists make to much but believe me if your one of the unlucky patients who have a serious unexpected complication during surgery you'll think they are worth every penny.
 
Jackiesaurus92 said:
Ophthalmic maxillo-facial surgeon and specialized dentist. He deals with people who have had their faces mutilated in car accidents etc. and also in wisdom teeth removal
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???? Is that what it says on the guys business card? LOL!!!!!

The term you're looking for is ORAL and MAXILLO-FACIAL SURGEON. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_and_maxillofacial_surgery sometimes referred to simply as an oral surgeon. They are usually dentists that have completed an extensive residency after dental school. If they've done the whole OMFS residency, they do indeed do a lot of facial trauma (fractured jaw, cheek, bones around the eye - I'm using simple terms for you) but they also do a lot of maxillary and mandibular reconstruction to correct bite issues (and trauma). The nature of the specialty is all you describe, including removal of wisdom teeth. An oral surgeon doesn't further specialize in wisdom tooth removal. On occasion, you will find DDS/MD's out there who REALLY subspecialize (fix the screwups of regular oral surgeons), and there is also some crossover with facial plastic surgeons.
 
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punkedoutriffs said:
attachment.php
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Jackiesaurus92 said:
Ophthalmic maxillo-facial surgeon and specialized dentist. He deals with people who have had their faces mutilated in car accidents etc. and also in wisdom teeth removal
Click to expand...

anesthesiologists make more money than some surgeons because we are always in the OR whereas your typical surgeon may only operate 1-2 days a week. on a per case basis compensation favors the surgeon. dentists and gi docs are a different beast. what if i tell you chances are: a portion of the 600 dollars you paid the anesthesiologist... actually ends up in your oral surgeons pocket!
 
The anastesioligist that put me under only is in the OR 2 days a week. Or even just one; the other days he is in his office- this is what it says on his business card anyway.. And my bad, the term is oral and maxillo-facial surgeon/dentist. Oh wow, if it does end up in the surgeons pocket, that's quite wrong as its not transparent.

saratoga733 said:
anesthesiologists make more money than some surgeons because we are always in the OR whereas your typical surgeon may only operate 1-2 days a week. on a per case basis compensation favors the surgeon. dentists and gi docs are a different beast. what if i tell you chances are: a portion of the 600 dollars you paid the anesthesiologist... actually ends up in your oral surgeons pocket!
Click to expand...
 
jwk said:
???? Is that what it says on the guys business card? LOL!!!!!

The term you're looking for is ORAL and MAXILLO-FACIAL SURGEON. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_and_maxillofacial_surgery sometimes referred to simply as an oral surgeon. They are usually dentists that have completed an extensive residency after dental school. If they've done the whole OMFS residency, they do indeed do a lot of facial trauma (fractured jaw, cheek, bones around the eye - I'm using simple terms for you) but they also do a lot of maxillary and mandibular reconstruction to correct bite issues (and trauma). The nature of the specialty is all you describe, including removal of wisdom teeth. An oral surgeon doesn't further specialize in wisdom tooth removal. On occasion, you will find DDS/MD's out there who REALLY subspecialize (fix the screwups of regular oral surgeons), and there is also some crossover with facial plastic surgeons.
Click to expand...

They do in fact specialize more in third molar removal and dental extractions and it makes up the vast majority of most omfs's daily schedule...and there is no difference in scope betweem the 4yr dds/dmd and the 6yr md+dds/dmd...saying that the ones with a md fix the other ones' mistakes would be insulting to them and you'd most likely end up edentulous :D they all come out of residency with a general anesthesia license, most do their own anesthesia, and they make far FAR more than 300k...just to clear all that up
 
NOsaintsfan said:
I'll assume you are genuine and are really interested in an answer so here you go.

The human body is amazingly complex and many things can go wrong during a surgery. If your not involved in medicine I can sort of see why you would say that. Anesthesia from a non informed perspective looks easy because the anesthesiologist with 12 years + of post high school education makes it look easy. In short you don't know what you don't know.

Another way to think of it is if it were truly as easy as it looks then there would be no anesthesiologist, the surgeon (who's way more skilled) would simply do the anesthesia him/herself. The 12+ years of training in anesthesia are needed to know what to do when the poop hits the fan. When something goes wrong in surgery often you may literally have seconds to respond or the patient dies --> that is why anesthesiologists get paid the big bucks, they are the ones who know what to do. There isn't any time to "look it up" or call for help. Either know what to do RIGHT NOW or the patient dies.

I hope this makes sense to you. You may still think anesthesiologists make to much but believe me if your one of the unlucky patients who have a serious unexpected complication during surgery you'll think they are worth every penny.
Click to expand...

Yes, I am genuinely interested and I'm not a student in the field of medicine so I'm not very knowledgable in this field. However, I still do think anesthesiologists should charge a fee which is equal to the chance of risk a patient faces. I for example am a young healthy person who has never had any major health issues nor been in hospital before. This would arguable reduce the chances of things going wrong in surgery I guess, in terms of the anesthetic.

I other things go wrong, such as the surgeon hitting a nerve while removing the tooth, the anesthetist is quite powerless right? So I think in my situation, as a young healthy patient, the surgeon has to counter more risks than the anesthesiologist does.
 
Jackiesaurus92 said:
Yes, I am genuinely interested and I'm not a student in the field of medicine so I'm not very knowledgable in this field. However, I still do think anesthesiologists should charge a fee which is equal to the chance of risk a patient faces. I for example am a young healthy person who has never had any major health issues nor been in hospital before. This would arguable reduce the chances of things going wrong in surgery I guess, in terms of the anesthetic.

I other things go wrong, such as the surgeon hitting a nerve while removing the tooth, the anesthetist is quite powerless right? So I think in my situation, as a young healthy patient, the surgeon has to counter more risks than the anesthesiologist does.
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Maybe that individual anesthesiologist charged to much I don't really know. My point is that in general anesthesiologists make what they do because they are ready for all the worst case scenarios. Just because you're young and healthy doesn't mean that you couldn't have an unexpected complication. They are unexpected because, well, they pop up out of nowhere, ie. you don't see them coming. There are plenty of rare situations that can affect a young healthy person undergoing anesthesia that can kill you quick. Unless you want to do some research on your own you'll just have to trust me on that, for example look up malignant hyperthermia.

Also keep in mind that MOST anesthesiologists don't practice in a dentists/oral surgeon's office. Anesthesia training is WAY more broad than that.
 
Jackiesaurus92 said:
The anastesioligist that put me under only is in the OR 2 days a week. Or even just one; the other days he is in his office- this is what it says on his business card anyway.. And my bad, the term is oral and maxillo-facial surgeon/dentist. Oh wow, if it does end up in the surgeons pocket, that's quite wrong as its not transparent.
Click to expand...

In "his office" the other days? What office? I don't even have an office. I have a billing office that handles the paperwork. Unless he's also a pain specialist on the side, I doubt he has any office work.


No offense, but your biggest problem with your whole situation was going to a dentist that required you to be under general anesthesia. The vast majority of them just give you a little sedation in the office (if that) while they use plenty of local anesthetic. You had a tooth pulled. And if you think a couple hundred dollars to keep you alive for an hour was too much, well I guess your life isn't worth much.
 
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Mman said:
In "his office" the other days? What office? I don't even have an office. I have a billing office that handles the paperwork. Unless he's also a pain specialist on the side, I doubt he has any office work.


No offense, but your biggest problem with your whole situation was going to a dentist that required you to be under general anesthesia. The vast majority of them just give you a little sedation in the office (if that) while they use plenty of local anesthetic. You had a tooth pulled. And if you think a couple hundred dollars to keep you alive for an hour was too much, well I guess your life isn't worth much.
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Her situation is probably worse than she thinks. It sounds like she probably didn't even have an Anesthesiologist, she probably had a "Dental Anesthetist" (Dentist/OMFS guy). So not only did she overpay for an an anesthetic for her extraction, but she didn't even have an Anesthesiologist there at all. She had a dentist with some anesthesia training.
How does this happen will be her next question? Because dentists set their own standard of care. They think that's fine. And most of the time, it probably is, because if you're sick, they wouldn't do your case in the office with the Anesthetist, you'd be done with a physician Anesthesiologist in the hospital or ambulatory surgery center.
So yes. It sounds like you really did over pay, and you're angry at the wrong people. Go check and see who really did your anesthetic. Then her mad at them.
 
IlDestriero said:
Her situation is probably worse than she thinks. It sounds like she probably didn't even have an Anesthesiologist, she probably had a "Dental Anesthetist" (Dentist/OMFS guy). So not only did she overpay for an an anesthetic for her extraction, but she didn't even have an Anesthesiologist there at all. She had a dentist with some anesthesia training.
How does this happen will be her next question? Because dentists set their own standard of care. They think that's fine. And most of the time, it probably is, because if you're sick, they wouldn't do your case in the office with the Anesthetist, you'd be done with a physician Anesthesiologist in the hospital or ambulatory surgery center.
So yes. It sounds like you really did over pay, and you're angry at the wrong people. Go check and see who really did your anesthetic. Then her mad at them.
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To be fair "some anesthesia training" is at least 2 years most likely 3 years of clinical anesthesia after dental school depending on when they graduated.
 
We make a lot because we always have cases running.
We don't make that much per hour compared to other specialties.

I think your question might be based on the false assumption that the anesthesiologist is making more than the surgeon. US News salary surveys claim anesthesiologists make the most money. That is not even close to true. Anesthesiologist aren't in the top 10 highest paid specialties.

We are well paid while sometimes not seeming to be doing much because we have a lot less busy-work than other specialties. You won't see us dictating or writing lengthy notes that occupies a lot of the time other specialties spend at work, but that isn't what generates money. It's required for billing obviously, but doesn't allow for increased income. Our time on the other hand is almost always generating income because we always have 1 or more people being anesthetized and are almost always on the clock, billing-wise.

You should look at hourly income by specialty too, which also shows anesthesia is not near the top.
 
Sublimazing said:
They do in fact specialize more in third molar removal and dental extractions and it makes up the vast majority of most omfs's daily schedule...and there is no difference in scope betweem the 4yr dds/dmd and the 6yr md+dds/dmd...saying that the ones with a md fix the other ones' mistakes would be insulting to them and you'd most likely end up edentulous :D they all come out of residency with a general anesthesia license, most do their own anesthesia, and they make far FAR more than 300k...just to clear all that up
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but a straight 4yr DDS/DMD is not an oral surgeon until they've finished an OMFS residency. Their allowable scope of practice may be the same - I'm not sure if dentists have an unrestricted license as MD's do, and of course there are certainly some general dentists doing 3rd molar extractions. My local experience with 6yr DDS/MD guys (on top of an OMFS residency) is that they're the ones doing the "bigger" and more sub-specialized procedures, and, as I indicated, fixing complications is part of that - lingual nerve grafts/repairs, etc. Maybe that doesn't extrapolate outside my area well.
 
jwk said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but a straight 4yr DDS/DMD is not an oral surgeon until they've finished an OMFS residency. Their allowable scope of practice may be the same - I'm not sure if dentists have an unrestricted license as MD's do, and of course there are certainly some general dentists doing 3rd molar extractions. My local experience with 6yr DDS/MD guys (on top of an OMFS residency) is that they're the ones doing the "bigger" and more sub-specialized procedures, and, as I indicated, fixing complications is part of that - lingual nerve grafts/repairs, etc. Maybe that doesn't extrapolate outside my area well.
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After 4 years of dental school the dds/dmd is awarded. This allows us to legally perform any procedure within our state's dental practice act as long as we can perform it to the same standard that a specialist would

An additional 4 or 6 years can be spent specializing in omfs performing all the procedures you mentioned. The only difference between the 4 year and 6 year is that the 6 year residents spend 1-2.5 years as an MS3 and/or MS4. The six year residents also have to do a full year of gen surg in order to obtain their medical license. At most programs the 6 years actually get LESS omfs training because of the gen surg/med school training (by a couple of months)

Upon completion there is no clinical difference in their scope, however for billing and privileges sometimes it is advantageous to have the MD
 
Post deleted as I realized that this thread is 7 years old....
 
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Haha, just realized this thread is ancient and the discussion is certainly not focussed on Canadian anesthesiology income!
 
Last edited:
More like lose the hustle. Stop looking for reasons to say "yes" and look for reasons to say "no"
 
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