Why do I keep getting denied?

[acceptdPlz]

Hello! I'm looking for some advice. I applied to 25 schools (18 MD/PhD, 3 MD, 4 DO) in summer 2021 for fall 2022 matriculation. I have 3.91 overall GPA, graduated summa cum laude, and 514 MCAT. I was a physics major, published a first author paper in a physics journal, and started an astronomy club. I also have about 70 clinical volunteer hours (hospice volunteer and ER volunteer), and 100 nonclinical (non-profit data-entry volunteer and tutoring--both for low SES underserved communities). I currently work as a clinical research assistant and I'm working on a clinical first-author paper.....I have about 40 physician shadowing hours and will have 70 total... I have gotten denied from half of my schools so far. I knew my MCAT was low and that I am non-trad because of the heavy physics background but what else can I do to improve my chances? I have just started volunteering to earn more clinical volunteer hours... What else do schools want-- what more should I do?

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[shotgunlagoon]

Your MCAT isn't low. Your volunteer hours and clinical experience seem low. What schools did you apply to? Did you apply to your state schools? How are your LORs?

 

[MawbleIM]

Hello! I'm looking for some advice. I applied to 25 schools (18 MD/PhD, 3 MD, 4 DO) in summer 2021 for fall 2022 matriculation. I have 3.91 overall GPA, graduated summa cum laude, and 514 MCAT. I was a physics major, published a first author paper in a physics journal, and started an astronomy club. I also have about 70 clinical volunteer hours (hospice volunteer and ER volunteer), and 100 nonclinical (non-profit data-entry volunteer and tutoring). I currently work as a clinical research assistant and I'm working on a clinical first-author paper.....I have about 40 physician shadowing hours... I have gotten flat out denied from half of my schools so far. I knew my MCAT was low and that I am non-trad because of the heavy physics background but I didn't expect to get flat out denied by so many schools...I did take a gap year between fresh and soph year to figure things out... but why am I getting denied? Is it because my low MCAT, non-Ivy league background, non-trad physics background??? why are my friends getting interviews and I am not? What should I do .. pls help

MCAT isn’t the problem. Having only 70 hours of clinical experience is the problem in my opinion. That’s just not nearly enough to be competitive.

 

[MyOdyssey]

MCAT isn’t the problem. Having only 70 hours of clinical experience is the problem in my opinion. That’s just not nearly enough to be competitive.

Hello! I'm looking for some advice. I applied to 25 schools (18 MD/PhD, 3 MD, 4 DO) in summer 2021 for fall 2022 matriculation. I have 3.91 overall GPA, graduated summa cum laude, and 514 MCAT. I was a physics major, published a first author paper in a physics journal, and started an astronomy club. I also have about 70 clinical volunteer hours (hospice volunteer and ER volunteer), and 100 nonclinical (non-profit data-entry volunteer and tutoring). I currently work as a clinical research assistant and I'm working on a clinical first-author paper.....I have about 40 physician shadowing hours... I have gotten flat out denied from half of my schools so far. I knew my MCAT was low and that I am non-trad because of the heavy physics background but I didn't expect to get flat out denied by so many schools...I did take a gap year between fresh and soph year to figure things out... but why am I getting denied? Is it because my low MCAT, non-Ivy league background, non-trad physics background??? why are my friends getting interviews and I am not? What should I do .. pls help

Your MCAT is much too low for MD/PhD programs. MD/PhD candidates have the highest MCAT scores around. Think 518+ at least, more likely 520+.

How many hours of research have you done? Is it thousands of hours or the equivalent of at least 2 full years? That's the minimum for MD/PhD.

How does physics research relate to the kind of research you'd do as a MD/PhD candidate? How did you explain that in your essays?

70 clinical hours is way too little for MD programs. It may be too little for DO as well? @Goro?

Your nonclinical volunteering doesn't appear to involve face to face interactions with underserved communities, which is what AdComs (including DO adcoms) like.

40 hours of shadowing is below average. 50 hrs is average.

 

[Goro]

Hello! I'm looking for some advice. I applied to 25 schools (18 MD/PhD, 3 MD, 4 DO) in summer 2021 for fall 2022 matriculation. I have 3.91 overall GPA, graduated summa cum laude, and 514 MCAT. I was a physics major, published a first author paper in a physics journal, and started an astronomy club. I also have about 70 clinical volunteer hours (hospice volunteer and ER volunteer), and 100 nonclinical (non-profit data-entry volunteer and tutoring). I currently work as a clinical research assistant and I'm working on a clinical first-author paper.....I have about 40 physician shadowing hours... I have gotten flat out denied from half of my schools so far. I knew my MCAT was low and that I am non-trad because of the heavy physics background but I didn't expect to get flat out denied by so many schools...I did take a gap year between fresh and soph year to figure things out... but why am I getting denied? Is it because my low MCAT, non-Ivy league background, non-trad physics background??? why are my friends getting interviews and I am not? What should I do .. pls help

You need at least 150 hours of clinical exposure
and also 150 hours of nonclinical volunteering. Work with people less fortunate that yourself.

I'm also guess you did a poor job of explaining why you're making such a big shift in your focus; why Medicine; and why you want to be a doctor.

You don't need a MD/PhD to do research. I'm getting the sense that's all you want to do. Just get a PhD is that's the case.

What exactly are you doing in your clinical research??

With your stats, you don't need DO.

 

[acceptdPlz]

Your MCAT isn't low. Your volunteer hours and clinical experience seem low. What schools did you apply to? Did you apply to your state schools? How are your LORs?

I think you are right... Yes I applied to my state school so that might be a good fit... LORs are strong... thank you for the reply!

 

[acceptdPlz]

MCAT isn’t the problem. Having only 70 hours of clinical experience is the problem in my opinion. That’s just not nearly enough to be competitive.

Okay... thank you for the reply!

 

[acceptdPlz]

Your MCAT is much too low for MD/PhD programs. MD/PhD candidates have the highest MCAT scores around. Think 518+ at least, more likely 520+.

How many hours of research have you done? Is it thousands of hours or the equivalent of at least 2 full years? That's the minimum for MD/PhD.

How does physics research relate to the kind of research you'd do as a MD/PhD candidate? How did you explain that in your essays?

70 clinical hours is way too little for MD programs. It may be too little for DO as well? @Goro?

Your nonclinical volunteering doesn't appear to involve face to face interactions with underserved communities, which is what AdComs (including DO adcoms) like.

40 hours of shadowing is below average. 50 hrs is average.

I agree that my clinical volunteering is below average--thank you for pointing this out! I agree the my MCAT is low as well.

I have 3 years of research, I began on the engineering side of imaging (built an optical device out of metamaterials) and then switched to clinical MRI imaging research where I meet with and scan patients and write codes to analyze their organs. My nonclinical volunteering was with underserved communities both times (tutoring students from very low income communities and working for a nonprofit that lent out science equipment to teachers in very low income school districts who could not afford it) and in both cases I worked face-to-face with the people I was helping. If you include my shadowing from this year (while I wait to hear back), I have 68 hrs.

Thank you for the reply! I appreciate the feedback.

 

[acceptdPlz]

You need at least 150 hours of clinical exposure
and also 150 hours of nonclinical volunteering. Work with people less fortunate that yourself.

I'm also guess you did a poor job of explaining why you're making such a big shift in your focus; why Medicine; and why you want to be a doctor.

You don't need a MD/PhD to do research. I'm getting the sense that's all you want to do. Just get a PhD is that's the case.

What exactly are you doing in your clinical research??

With your stats, you don't need DO.

I agree that my clinical exposure is too low. Thank you for the reply! Feedback helps.


Please see my above reply to @MyOdyssey

 

[Dral]

Is your first author physics paper the only pub on your CV?

MD/PhD programs are TOUGH to get into. They are very competitive because there are so few and it's for all intents and purposes a free ride.

I have a colleague's son who got in the second year he applied to them. However, he applied to every program (not sure if 18 is all of them or if there are more). He also has done a lot of posters and presentations. I think the three years of research is good, but did you get any other end products other than the pub (like presentations and such)?

One of his major additions to his app between his first and second year applying was more shadowing, clinical exposure, and volunteering (as discussed in this thread prior).

If you have to apply again, you can go for the MD/PhD programs again, but I'd recommend to add in more MD and DO programs.

 

[MyOdyssey]

I agree that my clinical exposure is too low. Thank you for the reply! Feedback helps.


Please see my above reply to @MyOdyssey

Just to be clear, MD and MD/PhD programs look for different things.

MD/PhD programs demand much higher academic achievement including GPA and MCAT. They also want to see lots of research and research productivity and an explanation of your future research interests. They are far less concerned than MD programs with clinical experience.

Your GPA/MCAT are fine for mid tier MD programs but your MCAT is too low for MD/PhD.

Being a physics major shouldn’t hinder you for either path.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

As a physics major, can you run through your inventory of upper-level biomedical science courses taken? Did you apply to Carle Illnois?

 

[deleted1025488]

MD/PhD programs demand much higher academic achievement including GPA and MCAT. They also want to see lots of research and research productivity and an explanation of your future research interests. They are far less concerned than MD programs with clinical experience.

This is probably just selection bias. I don't think people with objectively 'low' MCATs are applying MD/PhD because typically those students with extensive research experiences also have high stats; obviously not a perfect correlation, but still. There exist many MD/PhD programs with average MCATs in the range of 515. In fact, the average MD/PhD matriculant has an MCAT of ~515.5 so a 514 MCAT is clearly not an issue.

Getting strong enough research and successfully outlining why you actually want an MD/PhD is the real obstacle. Remember, these schools are effectively making a $500,000 investment into you as a student; having you drop out because "a PhD wasn't what you thought" or you realized far too late that the extra 4 years of a PhD will do nothing for your clinical career and probably just cause you to make significantly less money working the 80/20 research/clinical shift is not what schools want. This is why the research requirement and PI LoR is so important. A lack of enthusiasm in the LoR or only a few summers/<2000 hours of research with little productivity or lack of engagement(i.e. you didn't even participate in your school's undergrad symposium) is going to probably be a red flag.

Certainly some students actually want to do high-level research and/or run a lab in their future and enjoy it, but from my experience talking to 3rd/4th year peers, many were considering MD/PhD just because it was free, prestigious, etc. without actually knowing what it entailed. I think zero of them ended up actually applying after looking at career prospects.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

You would be getting MD interviews but as others have mentioned MD/PhD is much more difficult.

Next cycle, you could try applying MD only. Pursue research as an MD candidate. The net present value of an MD/PhD program is lower than MD program, anyway. So financially, you’d actually be better off.

 

[MyOdyssey]

You would be getting MD interviews but as others have mentioned MD/PhD is much more difficult.

Next cycle, you could try applying MD only. Pursue research as an MD candidate. The net present value of an MD/PhD program is lower than MD program, anyway. So financially, you’d actually be better off.

But what if he really likes research?

 

[MyOdyssey]

You would be getting MD interviews but as others have mentioned MD/PhD is much more difficult.

Next cycle, you could try applying MD only. Pursue research as an MD candidate. The net present value of an MD/PhD program is lower than MD program, anyway. So financially, you’d actually be better off.

T20 MD schools want candidates with strong research track records. Is that because they want their alums to do clinical research in an academic medicine setting?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

But what if he really likes research?

You can do research as a medical student and physician. Many schools even offer a research year (presumably paid for by a stipend or grant)

 

[MyOdyssey]

You can do research as a medical student and physician. Many schools even offer a research year (presumably paid for by a stipend or grant)

How does one do wet lab research as a MD who sees patients? I assume you mean clinical research?

 

[MyOdyssey]

This is probably just selection bias. I don't think people with objectively 'low' MCATs are applying MD/PhD because typically those students with extensive research experiences also have high stats; obviously not a perfect correlation, but still. There exist many MD/PhD programs with average MCATs in the range of 515. In fact, the average MD/PhD matriculant has an MCAT of ~515.5 so a 514 MCAT is clearly not an issue.

Getting strong enough research and successfully outlining why you actually want an MD/PhD is the real obstacle. Remember, these schools are effectively making a $500,000 investment into you as a student; having you drop out because "a PhD wasn't what you thought" or you realized far too late that the extra 4 years of a PhD will do nothing for your clinical career and probably just cause you to make significantly less money working the 80/20 research/clinical shift is not what schools want. This is why the research requirement and PI LoR is so important. A lack of enthusiasm in the LoR or only a few summers/<2000 hours of research with little productivity or lack of engagement(i.e. you didn't even participate in your school's undergrad symposium) is going to probably be a red flag.

Certainly some students actually want to do high-level research and/or run a lab in their future and enjoy it, but from my experience talking to 3rd/4th year peers, many were considering MD/PhD just because it was free, prestigious, etc. without actually knowing what it entailed. I think zero of them ended up actually applying after looking at career prospects.

Avg MCAT for MD matriculants is much lower than 515.

What is the avg MCAT for non-URM MD/PhD matriculants? Even higher than 515.5.

Thus, MD/PhD matriculants have much higher MCATs than straight MD applicants.

Having a below average MCAT is an issue considering how few MD/PhD openings there are across the country.

 

[deleted1025488]

Avg MCAT for MD matriculants is much lower than 515.

What is the avg MCAT for non-URM MD/PhD matriculants? Even higher than 515.5.

Thus, MD/PhD matriculants have much higher MCATs than straight MD applicants.

Having a below average MCAT is an issue considering how few MD/PhD openings there are across the country.

Average MCAT for MD/PhD applicant is about 510-511 and average matriculant MCAT for MD/PhD is 515-516 as I said.

The standard deviation for matriculats is 6. A 514 will not hold you back from ALL programs lol...

Also MD/PhD programs are even more skewed towards wealthy/ORMs. AAMC table literally has like less than 100 URM matriculates for all programs lmao, they aren't 'bringing the MCAT median down' as you are trying to suggest

All I'm saying is that there is no way OP is getting ZERO A's due to MCAT. There are programs with 510-515 medians. School list...

 

[MyOdyssey]

Average MCAT for MD/PhD applicant is about 510-511 and average matriculant MCAT for MD/PhD is 515-516 as I said.

The standard deviation for matriculats is 6. A 514 will not hold you back from ALL programs lol...

Also MD/PhD programs are even more skewed towards wealthy/ORMs. AAMC table literally has like less than 100 URM matriculates for all programs lmao, they aren't 'bringing the MCAT median down' as you are trying to suggest

I’d think MD/PhD programs would attract the less wealthy. The wealthy don’t care so much about tuition free.

I don’t know the racial distribution of MD/PhD matriculants. They want to invest those resources in people who can change the future of medicine through their research output. And that’s cool with me.

6 points on the MCAT is significant ; it’s substantially more than the average score increase on a retake.

Back to the OP. He has to decide whether he wants to put in the time on the MD v the MD/PhD side. It’s a tough call and I wish him the best in making that decision.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

MCAT matters less for MD/PhD than MD only. I’d argue that someone with a 502 and a first author nature publication would have a better chance at MD/PhD than MD only. Research is by far the most important factor

 

[jhmmd]

I’d think MD/PhD programs would attract the less wealthy. The wealthy don’t care so much about tuition free.

I don’t know the racial distribution of MD/PhD matriculants. They want to invest those resources in people who can change the future of medicine through their research output. And that’s cool with me.

M.D./M.D.-Ph.D programs tend to attract URMs due to the free tuition + stipend
It is what it is

 

[deleted1025488]

M.D./M.D.-Ph.D programs tend to attract URMs due to the free tuition + stipend
It is what it is

I’d think MD/PhD programs would attract the less wealthy. The wealthy don’t care so much about tuition free.

I don’t know the racial distribution of MD/PhD matriculants. They want to invest those resources in people who can change the future of medicine through their research output. And that’s cool with me.

6 points on the MCAT is significant ; it’s substantially more than the average score increase on a retake.

URM info for this type of stuff is literally published by AAMC, not sure why both of you are acting like it's something up in the air.

Also the 6 figure was in regard to SD. Essentially it means that 50% of the class is between 509 and 521. If you go look at some MCAT distributions for schools, including top schools, it's usually pretty big. Even for some top schools.

Like, look at Duke. Huge MCAT range yet ZERO URMs matriculated, which means even for ORMs they can be somewhat lenient with MCAT when willing. This is even more surprising considering NIH/PhD "URM" is much more lenient (they count pretty much all south americans hispanic/latinos, who are usually rich international students, on top of the MD hispanic/latinos (Mexican, Puerto Rican) and blacks/native american).

 

[jhmmd]

Hello! I'm looking for some advice. I applied to 25 schools (18 MD/PhD, 3 MD, 4 DO) in summer 2021 for fall 2022 matriculation. I have 3.91 overall GPA, graduated summa cum laude, and 514 MCAT. I was a physics major, published a first author paper in a physics journal, and started an astronomy club. I also have about 70 clinical volunteer hours (hospice volunteer and ER volunteer), and 100 nonclinical (non-profit data-entry volunteer and tutoring). I currently work as a clinical research assistant and I'm working on a clinical first-author paper.....I have about 40 physician shadowing hours... I have gotten flat out denied from half of my schools so far. I knew my MCAT was low and that I am non-trad because of the heavy physics background but I didn't expect to get flat out denied by so many schools...I did take a gap year between fresh and soph year to figure things out... but why am I getting denied? Is it because my low MCAT, non-Ivy league background, non-trad physics background??? why are my friends getting interviews and I am not? What should I do .. pls help

1. Be patient. It's not yet Thanksgiving, so if I'm reading your post right, at least half of the schools you applied to could potentially send you a secondary (remember the LizzyM "Thanksgiving rule").
2. Take a close look at your PS, LoRs, EC descriptions, etc.
3. When did you apply? Even though your stats are great, if you don't apply early this can be a factor, esp. if something else is off
4. Ask your pre-med advisor for tips, if you have one
5. If all else fails, ask the schools that rejected you for feedback during the next application cycle. This is an inside tip that can often get people into medical school (esp. if you were rejected post-interview), e.g. "What can I do to make my application better?" Try to ask open-ended questions.
6. I really don't think the problem is your GPA/MCAT. Don't retake the MCAT. Your MCAT is fine. Often people that take the MCAT again w/a score similar to yours tend to do worse the second time.
7. IF you need to apply again, here's what I would do
a. Apply to more schools
b. Apply to a lot more M.D. schools, not just M.D.-Ph.D programs as these are rather competitive and you do not seem like a "unicorn" type applicant although your stats are great--"unicorns" tend to have these stats PLUS unbelievable outstanding extracurriculars. Not to be harsh but that's just the way it is; you need to beef up your ECs a bit (more volunteer hours, more clinical hours, more shadowing, etc.).
c. Apply to at least ten D.O. schools, since you'll be a re-applicant
d. Come back here and post your school list for input

I wish you the best of luck.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

You would be getting MD interviews but as others have mentioned MD/PhD is much more difficult.

Next cycle, you could try applying MD only. Pursue research as an MD candidate. The net present value of an MD/PhD program is lower than MD program, anyway. So financially, you’d actually be better off.

Never understood why people opt for that to begin with. My research mentor here kept wanting me to add a PhD on top of my MD.. and I just kept laughing. Basically you become a free laborer in their wet lab for 3 years. I mean yeah you don't pay tuition... Also not sure about where prestige comes from... in medicine no one really cares if you have a phd or not.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Never understood why people opt for that to begin with. My research mentor here kept wanting me to add a PhD on top of my MD.. and I just kept laughing.

Those who want their careers to consist of treating patients don’t need the PhD. Those who want to run their own wet labs could use the PhD.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Those who want their careers to consist of treating patients don’t need the PhD. Those who want to run their own wet labs could use the PhD.

well.. actually if you want to run your own lab, MD suffices as well. MD/PhD (especially MSTP) is a stipend-funded job position for 7 years. For example, I have my name on every paper those MD/PhD's get on (I even rank my name ahead of them in some of them), yet I am not doing any pipetting or stuff like that. I just author the clinical portion and discussion portion of the paper.

 

[jhmmd]

well.. actually if you want to run your own lab, MD suffices as well. MD/PhD (especially MSTP) is a stipend-funded job position for 7 years.

And sometimes it can go longer than that--as long as it takes to complete the Ph.D part (get your thesis accepted)

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

And sometimes it can go longer than that--as long as it takes to complete the Ph.D part (get your thesis accepted)

Yeah, according to some school's info, only 30% of them finish it in 7 years. most of them finish in 9 years!

 

[MyOdyssey]

well.. actually if you want to run your own lab, MD suffices as well. MD/PhD (especially MSTP) is a stipend-funded job position for 7 years. For example, I have my name on every paper those MD/PhD's get on (I even rank my name ahead of them in some of them), yet I am not doing any pipetting or stuff like that. I just author the clinical portion and discussion portion of the paper.

But the MD only types who want to run their own labs need to do research fellowships to establish their research cred, right? Doesn’t that take as long as MD/PhD but without the tuition benefit?

 

[candbgirl]

How does one do wet lab research as a MD who sees patients? I assume you mean clinical research?

Not necessarily . I know several docs that have labs and staffs at the med school/hospital that are funded by grants etc. They see patients in clinic a day or two a week and are “researching” other days. It happens frequently actually. There are different tracks available, the research track, the clinical track .

 

[jhmmd]

But the MD only types who want to run their own labs need to do research fellowships to establish their research cred, right? Doesn’t that take as long as MD/PhD but without the tuition benefit?

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

But the MD only types who want to run their own labs need to do research fellowships to establish their research cred, right? Doesn’t that take as long as MD/PhD but without the tuition benefit?

You build your research up during both med school and residency. During that time, you also work towards getting board certified. In other words, you don't spend extra years. We here always joke with our MD/PhD classmates how they will get their degree when we already get board certified. Most MD/PhD's I know have very little interest in clinical stuff. They really want to do the combo because it gives them an exit strategy in case their research doesn't pan out.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

How does one do wet lab research as a MD who sees patients? I assume you mean clinical research?

A lot of them run web labs. For example, my mentor runs a big lab on animal models for CNS lymphoma.

 

[MyOdyssey]

A lot of them run web labs. For example, my mentor runs a big lab on animal models for CNS lymphoma.

How much time does your mentor spend seeing patients?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

If you can win grants, you can do research regardless of degree.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Money and opportunities are plentiful for med students to do research without having to do a PhD. (HHMI sponsors many opportunities ) Likewise, if you want to do clinical research, you can go for a PhD only and pick the right project or mentor.

 

[Goro]

MCAT matters less for MD/PhD than MD only. I’d argue that someone with a 502 and a first author nature publication would have a better chance at MD/PhD than MD only. Research is by far the most important factor

No, no, no no

 

[deleted936268]

You build your research up during both med school and residency. During that time, you also work towards getting board certified. In other words, you don't spend extra years. We here always joke with our MD/PhD classmates how they will get their degree when we already get board certified. Most MD/PhD's I know have very little interest in clinical stuff. They really want to do the combo because it gives them an exit strategy in case their research doesn't pan out.

What about applicants that know way down the line, they want into competitive specialties at competitive hospitals? Compare a t10 MD to a t10 MD/Ph.D. and the research they would have. Wouldn't the MD need a 5th research year to get into those competitive specialties? Additionally, wouldn't the MD/PhD be at the top of the applicant pool with their research?

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

What about applicants that know way down the line, they want into competitive specialties at competitive hospitals? Compare a t10 MD to a t10 MD/Ph.D. and the research they would have. Wouldn't the MD need a 5th research year to get into those competitive specialties? Additionally, wouldn't the MD/PhD be at the top of the applicant pool with their research?

Not necessarily. MD/PhD's tend to focus on translational or basic science and MD's tend to focus on clinical research. Research is just one of the components in residency selection.

 

[deleted936268]

Not necessarily. MD/PhD's tend to focus on translational or basic science and MD's tend to focus on clinical research. Research is just one of the components in residency selection.

I was looking at t10 nsgy program resident lists (using nsgy as an example) and just with an eye test, about 1/3 - 1/2 are MD/PhD. Just for the purpose of learning, why? Do they find more success bc of research, or is it selection bias (and MD applicants have equal success with their clinical)>

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

I was looking at t10 nsgy program resident lists (using nsgy as an example) and just with an eye test, about 1/3 - 1/2 are MD/PhD. Just for the purpose of learning, why? Do they find more success bc of research, or is it selection bias (and MD applicants have equal success with their clinical)>

Not sure where you get the data. At Hopkins, only 3 out of 29 residents have MD/PhD. At UCSF, 4 out of 21 residents are MD/PhD. At Barrow, 1 out of 28 residents is MD/PhD. At MGH, it looks like 12 out of 21 residents are MD/PhD. I think it shows that it's very program specific and some programs just attract more MD/PhD due to their bench research focus.

 

[deleted936268]

Not sure where you get the data. At Hopkins, only 3 out of 29 residents have MD/PhD. At UCSF, 4 out of 21 residents are MD/PhD. At Barrow, 1 out of 28 residents is MD/PhD.

Hmm I see the eye test failed me then. For the people pursuing an MD/PhD, why? I've asked the question 100 times to different people and it seems it comes out to them being interested in having their own lab. But someone said above MD's can also have their own labs (as long as they can grind for grants).

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Hmm I see the eye test failed me then. For the people pursuing an MD/PhD, why? I've asked the question 100 times to different people and it seems it comes out to them being interested in having their own lab. But someone said above MD's can also have their own labs (as long as they can grind for grants).

I don't think having your own lab is the motivation for getting a MD/PhD. You have to love bench research.. most MD's aren't interested in that.

 

[deleted936268]

I don't think having your own lab is the motivation for getting a MD/PhD. You have to love bench research.. most MD's aren't interested in that.

So to go MD/PhD, your main motivation in life is specifically bench research?

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

So to go MD/PhD, your main motivation in life is specifically bench research?

I hope that's why people do it. Otherwise how can you stand spending thousands of hours in a lab??

 

[deleted936268]

I hope that's why people do it. Otherwise how can you stand spending thousands of hours in a lab??

Makes sense. Could I DM my WAMC to get feedback on where to improve or is that a no no? Applying next cycle.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Makes sense. Could I DM my WAMC to get feedback on where to improve or is that a no no? Applying next cycle.

Dm'ed you.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

What about applicants that know way down the line, they want into competitive specialties at competitive hospitals? Compare a t10 MD to a t10 MD/Ph.D. and the research they would have. Wouldn't the MD need a 5th research year to get into those competitive specialties? Additionally, wouldn't the MD/PhD be at the top of the applicant pool with their research?

I mean I guess it’s like saying “I want to play college basketball at Duke.” but the only offers I have are from D3 schools and therefore won’t play at all. Don’t let perfection be the enemy of good