why do MD's look Down on DO's?

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - DO' started by loverboy, Feb 13, 2002.

  1. loverboy

    loverboy Member

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    I'm just curious, b/c I'm applying to medschools this june aswell and I met this girl who is ist year in UCDavis med school, she said she didn't scored any double digits however her gpa was ok..she didn't told me. In our conversation,I told her that I'll be applying to some DO's schools aswell, and she said do they have to even take mcat!? but I know couple DO's teach at Davis medschool, Why do people are not aware of DO's, Or is DO's are being descriminated.
     
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  3. Bevo

    Bevo Radiology, R1

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    i dunno. my father is an MD and he's had some interactions with a DO who is a resident. Anyways, of all the reidents my father has interacted with, he's been most impressed with the DO.
     
  4. Medic171

    Medic171 Senior Member

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    most of them do not look down on DOs at all. You would have to ask the ones who do, we don't know
     
  5. jhug

    jhug 1K Member

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    my dad (MD) is the one who got me into this DO mess :) In my opinion, the biggest opposition is seen mostly at an applicant/MS1 MS2 level-- once you are out and everyone sees that you have the skills and abilities they really don't care what follows your name--
     
  6. My ob/gyn doc is a resident and she mentioned that going the osteopathic route would make one look like a second class citizen in medicine. I was surprised to hear this, because she is a young resident who knows that osteopathic docs are physicians.
     
  7. Bevo

    Bevo Radiology, R1

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    Id look for more opnions.
     
  8. titan

    titan Senior Member

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    I am from Texas, and in my experiences I haven't seen any bias among physicians in regards to MD vs. DO. The DO's that I have spoken with work in a group with MD's and have said this bias is virtually non-existent. I must second the statement that all of this nonsense primarily exists among misinformed pre-meds.

    Just my two cents.....

    titan
     
  9. Medic171

    Medic171 Senior Member

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    It depends ALOT on your geographic location. For example, here in Michigan, there is NO bias whatsoever to DO's. In fact, there are just as many, if not more, DO's as MD's in practice in this state. The urgent care that I work at is owned by 8 DO's and 3 MD's, and MD's and DO's work together in almost every field around here. There are even several DO's in specialty like surgery, psych, dermatology, and ob'gyn.

    in other areas though, there is still some bias which is unwarranted and quite frankly ignorant.

    So, if you plan to practice in the east or northeast, I bet you would seldom run into bias, but the farther west you go, generally speaking, the more bias there is. I am not sure about the southern areas because I have not been in a medical setting down there, but I am sure somebody here has and can comment for yuo how it is down there.
     
  10. David511

    David511 Ponch's Illegitimate Son

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    jealousy, plain and simple. with a little anger thrown in for good measure...do you know how many MDs have lost their wives to DOs? Billions. Once those trophy-wives realize what us DOs can do with our hands, they drop the MDs faster than GW can snort a line of columbia's finest

    at least, that's what I've heard :rolleyes:
     
  11. titan

    titan Senior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by David511:
    <strong>jealousy, plain and simple. with a little anger thrown in for good measure...do you know how many MDs have lost their wives to DOs? Billions. Once those trophy-wives realize what us DOs can do with our hands, they drop the MDs faster than GW can snort a line of columbia's finest

    at least, that's what I've heard :rolleyes: </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL!!!!
    <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />
     
  12. ussdfiant

    Physician Moderator Emeritus

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    David,

    That was funny as hell, can't wait to learn OMM!
     
  13. tBw

    tBw totally deluded

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    MDs look down on everyone, why should DOs be special!

    Joking aside, one could equally validly ask why some DOs choose to dis MDs. (or NPs or PAs or... or.... or... or... or.....) It's human nature. Maybe not nice, but common.
     
  14. bobo

    bobo Senior Member

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    OK, we all know the DO/MD thing is stupid, but it does exist to some degree in certain places, no matter what the party line is. Rumor has it that MCP is a crappy place for PCOM students to do rotations cuz of the rift between DO/MD. Supposedly they have different rounds meetings in the morning or something to that effect. It is all the more stupid cuz a number of highly respected DO's work over there all the time.
     
  15. Hedwig

    Hedwig Senior Member

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    MCP isn't too DO friendly. When I worked at a PCOM healthcare center, the students unanimously agreed that MCP is a pretty acrimonious place. They also agreed that, of all the medical students in Philadelphia, only the MCP-Hahnemann kids are (how to put this nicely?) dicks (e.g., there the ones who'll ask you on a rotation, "DOs are just chiropractors trying to practice medicine, right?"). The thing to remember, though, is that while MCP Hospital is anti-DO, it's also anti-MD. MCP and Hahnemann University used to be two seperate entities. Obviously they merged, but it didn't go particularly smoothly and there are still a lot of MCP people who hate the Hahnemann people and vice versa. So the old Hahnemann docs aren't too welcome at MCP Hospital either.

    Keep two things in mind:

    1. You're not forced to do rotations at MCP. PCOM has myriad clinical affiliates to choose from.

    2. I've heard that PCOM is negotiating with the Mercy system--many hospitals, very DO-friendly, better reputation than MCP--to make them the major clinical affiliate.
     
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  17. bobo

    bobo Senior Member

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    Just to clarify - you CAN be forced to rotate through MCP. You roll the dice to a big extent when you are choosing your rotations at PCOM. For example, there are 25 slots for cardiology in 3rd year - 4 to 6 of those are at MCP. if your group has 23 people (as do most) then people are gonna rotate there, no matter what. Plus, the guy who runs the carsio course 1st year works over there, and he ALWAYS has a bunch of students.
     
  18. jhug

    jhug 1K Member

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    A somewhat arrogant doc friend of my fam asked me why i would go the DO route when other docs (the arrogant/ignorant ones) may look down on me-- I asked myself-- am i doing this so other docs treat me with respect or because i really want to be a physician?? Anyone who requires that to respect me is someone i won't associate with. This same doc told me to be a PA so he could make the same amount of $$$ and be able to golf more--
     
  19. Neurogirl

    Neurogirl Resident Extraordinaire

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    It's only a matter of time before everyone gets it! As a 4th yr, I did a neuro rotation at a top school. Initially, the other students acted kind of weird around me...like I was just there as a courtesy. Within a couple of days, I was running circles around all of them (basically, making them look like idiots during pimp sessions) and boy, did their attitudes change! At first I really dreaded the thought of having to prove myself, but it ended up being kinda fun. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

    To answer your question, there are some areas of the country that are still ignorant, but that is changing. The west coast is the most notorious, but I think TOURO will change all that. Remember, physicians are, in general, a pretty intelligent group of folks. As they meet and work with DOs they'll come around. So as I said before, it's only a matter of time before everyone gets it. I predict that in 10 years, there won't be any discrimination at all. :D
     
  20. Dr. B

    Dr. B Member

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    Most docs I have talked to say the MD vs. DO debate is only an issue with pre-meds and insecure MDs. Most MDs and DOs just want to work with someone who is competent and can pull their own weight. There are lazy, incompetent docs in both fields of medicine. In the real world, there is no distinction other than work ethic.
     
  21. ckent

    ckent Banned
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Neurogirl:
    <strong>It's only a matter of time before everyone gets it! As a 4th yr, I did a neuro rotation at a top school. Initially, the other students acted kind of weird around me...like I was just there as a courtesy. Within a couple of days, I was running circles around all of them (basically, making them look like idiots during pimp sessions) and boy, did their attitudes change! At first I really dreaded the thought of having to prove myself, but it ended up being kinda fun. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

    To answer your question, there are some areas of the country that are still ignorant, but that is changing. The west coast is the most notorious, but I think TOURO will change all that. Remember, physicians are, in general, a pretty intelligent group of folks. As they meet and work with DOs they'll come around. So as I said before, it's only a matter of time before everyone gets it. I predict that in 10 years, there won't be any discrimination at all. :D </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree with this statement. I go to an MD school on the east coast and one of our small group leaders happened to be a DO and a lot of my classmates were all confused because they had no idea what a DO was. A lot of pre-meds are not even aware of the DO route until it comes time to apply for med school, and if they are not made aware then, then they may never find out about DOs unless one happens to work in the same hospital. It's not "discrimination" so much as it is ignorance about what DOs are. My dad is an MD and he found out about DOs when he was at a talk a DO was giving for CME, I think that most people find out about DOs through random events/people, knowledge about DOs doesn't seem to be general knowledge to me.
     
  22. none

    none 1K Member

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    If you just need a numerical reason, it's that the average MCAT score of a DO was lower than the average MCAT score of an MD. I realize DO schools may "look for other characteristics," but that doesn't change a person's MCAT score or the scores of the people they took classes with. And yes, the MCAT is not the ultimate decider of intelligence, far from it, but it is a measure of aptitude for some part of the medical profession otherwise both types of medical schools would have thrown it out long ago.
     
  23. Teufelhunden

    Teufelhunden 1K Member
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> If you just need a numerical reason, it's that the average MCAT score of a DO was lower than the average MCAT score of an MD </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Okay, with that line of thinking, those students in allopathic schools with high MCATs would also "look down" on their classmates with lower MCATs...which just doesn't happen (well, i'm sure it happens somewhere, but you don't run into it much).

    Another point....say you have an MD school w/ a 30 mean MCAT and a DO school w/ a 27 mean MCAT....well, those 2 bell curves are going to overlap quite a bit, i.e. there will be handfull of people with 28-29 MCATs in both schools....follow?

    Also, in my state (Ohio) for example, there is an MD school with a lower mean MCAT than OUCOM (a DO school)....so although generalities can be made....making assumptions on an individual basis can be foolish, i.e. just becuase you attend an MD school doens't mean you're smarter than some guy or gal from a DO school.

    The larger argument should be: Why are people looking down on people based on their professional status, anyway? And what does it say about somebody who does? God, if some MD "looks down" on DOs, I wonder how they feel about janitors, cafeteria workers, CNA's, etc.
     
  24. none

    none 1K Member

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    The OP asked for a reason and I gave it, valid or invalid as it may be. This whole thread is about generalities, not about whether a specific DO is better than a specific MD (or a specific janitor for that matter).
     
  25. Teufelhunden

    Teufelhunden 1K Member
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    Read the title of this thread again, my friend. It reads: why do MD's look down on DO's?

    So unless there is some collective MD entity (like the Borg from Star Trek) that I'm unaware of, I think the original poster is refereing to individual MD's? (I'm NOT a trekkie, but the analogy jumped out at me)

    Or perhaps there was a mass poll taken where MDs overwhelmingly admitted to "looking down" on DOs? Well, of course there wasn't. What we're talking about are individuals. Look at the previous posts....they're riddled with anecdotes of individual MDs who made some statement regarding DOs.

    So, I beg to differ with you...this whole thread is about individual prejudices among the MD community (that I believe is small and insignificant...but that's for another thread).
     
  26. Freeeedom!

    Freeeedom! Senior Member

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    My theory is that most MD's are taller than DO's and therefore MUST look down upon us. I see no other answer.
     
  27. slindsay198

    slindsay198 Member

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    Awesome Freeeedom! <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />
     
  28. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by jhug:
    <strong>A somewhat arrogant doc friend of my fam asked me why i would go the DO route when other docs (the arrogant/ignorant ones) may look down on me-- I asked myself-- am i doing this so other docs treat me with respect or because i really want to be a physician?? Anyone who requires that to respect me is someone i won't associate with. This same doc told me to be a PA so he could make the same amount of $$$ and be able to golf more--</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would not associate with this doc anymore. Get advise from other doctors. Many nice ones out there.
     
  29. loverboy

    loverboy Member

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    You guys are great, Actually I've already cut and pasted some those cool arguments, and sent it to that girl. Anyways...let go for another bout, Toulem and none were doing prety good.. <img border="0" alt="[Clappy]" title="" src="graemlins/clappy.gif" />
     
  30. Andrew7793

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    That was a good laugh haha
     
  31. angldrps

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    :smack: this girl is probably not somebody you should rely on for any info. about DOs.
     
  32. rc4ch

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  33. 374018

    374018 Filet Mignon

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    The only place I have heard DO's being talked about in a negative light was by pre-meds on SDN.
     
  34. Ost3oclast

    Ost3oclast It's Teh Internetz Dood!

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    Sigh....necrobump
     
  35. Goro

    Faculty

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    This is a problem only with pre-meds, and elderly MDs. All other clinical people do not have problems with DOs.

    Ignorance is bliss, I guess.



     
  36. darklabel

    darklabel PGWhy
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    Necro is right...wow this is an old thread.

    Glad to see that the daily DO vs MD thread is going on since 2002
     
  37. hallowmann

    hallowmann SDN Lifetime Donor
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    Who are you guys replying to? This thread is like 11 years old. How did you even find it?

    Crazy old. This has to be the oldest and smallest, most obscure thread bump I've ever seen...
     
  38. DavetheMD

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    The way you bumped an 11 year old thread?
     
  39. Ost3oclast

    Ost3oclast It's Teh Internetz Dood!

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    Hhhmm maybe the new troll style is to make obscure necrobumps on old DO vs MD threads to avoid the heat of starting a new one...then hoping the thread devolves into the normal debate dribble we always hear.
     
  40. AlabamaPop

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    Being a DO is a lifestyle choice that we as Americans cannot condone. It is a SIN to say that there should be medical equality. This was not the Lord's intention to have blasphemous chiropractors to misbehave in such light.

    It is written in the Sacred Book 1:24-27 as follows:

    " 24 Therefore DOs gave into the sinful desires of their hearts to medical impurity for the degrading of their patient bodies. 25 They exchanged the truth about medicine for a lie, and worshiped and served blasphemous things by another rather than the allopathic Creator—who is forever praised. Amen."

    26 Because of this, DO schools gave them over to shameful lusts. Even high ranking premeds exchanged natural medical education for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural education within MD schools and were inflamed with OMM desires. Men committed shameful acts with other men in the OMM lab, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error."
     
  41. IslandStyle808

    IslandStyle808 Akuma residency or bust!

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    If you ever read this, please be my mentor! :D
     
  42. playaodamonth

    playaodamonth Student DOctor

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    ^ LOL! going to have to steal that line for future reference...
     
  43. GypsyHummus

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    And the Spirit Hath said "He whom does not score a 30+ will forever not inherit the fruit of Medicine."

    Letter to the Corinthians "Be wary of the Osteopathic way, for those schools love silver more than thy love of medicine. Alas, those whom seek out state osteopathic institutions when there is no other way, let thy matriculate, for they have not sinned, as it is better to graduate from selfless schools than greedy "non for profit" entities"

    And then Profit said "Love they healthcare provider coworker as equals. Let MD, DO, PA, NP, ND, LMNOP, all practice as equals one day, because that is the way this country is heading now"
     
  44. Ost3oclast

    Ost3oclast It's Teh Internetz Dood!

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    Haha! Quality.
     
  45. Capltd29

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  46. gonnif

    gonnif Only 842 Days Until Next Presidential Election
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    Sorry I am jumping in this late but the vast majority of practicing MDs, hospitals, clinics, etc, dont really care if your are an MD or DO. They care where you did residency and if your are board certified in your area. Look at it this way. To a practicing physician, where you went to medical school is like asking where you went to high school. Where you did residency is like asking where you went to college. Residency training programs are the place where prestige and reputation matter
     
  47. Ost3oclast

    Ost3oclast It's Teh Internetz Dood!

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  48. Capltd29

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    No MCAT required dude AND none of that OMM witchcraft.
     
  49. Capltd29

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    I think we're all about 11 years late on this thread.
     
  50. Ost3oclast

    Ost3oclast It's Teh Internetz Dood!

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    See THATS what Im talking about. There is literally no down side...
     
  51. playaodamonth

    playaodamonth Student DOctor

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    But reverend, what if I had a 3.5 cGPA undergrad, 3.9 cGPA SMP, and 32Q MCAT...and still chose to go the osteopathic way...have I still sinned?...
     
  52. Eiot

    Eiot Typical Chazz

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    I feel like I'm a part of 2002 history.
     

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