Why do residency?

[AmericanHero]

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Hi, I'm in the 3 year program with the Army. My repayment is obviously 3 years. When asked if I was interested in the 1 or 2 year advanced dentistry programs they offer after graduation, I declined. My goal is to get out as soon as possible. I might be willing to specialize with them and do extra time if accepted but thats a different story.
My question is why would any one take the 1 or 2 year advanced dentistry deal that doesn't count towards your repayment if you are not intending to stay with the military? My understanding is that my 3 years of repayment time can be utilized in the same manner as people who do residency for two years after dental school to learn dentistry in the real world. Why take the advanced dentistry program if they will still teach your a good amount during your regular repayment?

 

[user101]

I didnt know we could begin our commitment without doing a residency.

Did you not accept the accession bonus? Is that why your commitment will only be 3 years

 

[AmericanHero]

Correct, I was offered a three year scholarship and they offered 20K if I stayed for 4. I said no. Regarding the advanced dentistry requirement to do it; you are only required to apply, if selected you are not required to accept. It's a poorly known fact that recruiters forget to mention. It is in our HPSP handbook however. Ask your recruiter, he will confirm.

 

[user101]

Correct, I was offered a three year scholarship and they offered 20K if I stayed for 4. I said no. Regarding the advanced dentistry requirement to do it; you are only required to apply, if selected you are not required to accept. It's a poorly known fact that recruiters forget to mention. It is in our HPSP handbook however. Ask your recruiter, he will confirm.

True, I did know we had to apply..I'm still unsure if I want to have a military career or not. I like the 2yr comp but it doesnt mean anything in the civilian world bc no one is granted a specialty certificate.
For people like yourself trying to get out asap I doubt if they accept a residency position

 

[krmower]

Hi, I'm in the 3 year program with the Army. My repayment is obviously 3 years. When asked if I was interested in the 1 or 2 year advanced dentistry programs they offer after graduation, I declined. My goal is to get out as soon as possible. I might be willing to specialize with them and do extra time if accepted but thats a different story.
My question is why would any one take the 1 or 2 year advanced dentistry deal that doesn't count towards your repayment if you are not intending to stay with the military? My understanding is that my 3 years of repayment time can be utilized in the same manner as people who do residency for two years after dental school to learn dentistry in the real world. Why take the advanced dentistry program if they will still teach your a good amount during your regular repayment?

(climbing up on my soap box)

The reason to do it is to invest in yourself and provide yourself with as many options as you can. You can have very specific professional goals after you graduate from dental school. Investing in yourself will never limit what you can do, however declining oportunities that will further your professional knowledge always will (or cause you to have to acquire them through other means) either in or out of the military.

2 points:

1) Who cares if there is no certificate associated with a 2 yr AEGD. In the civilian world people pay to attend CE all the time that does not give them any type of professional certificate. Why do they do it? So that they can offer their patients more options and increase their salary. The same can be said of the 1 or 2 yr AEGD. If you do them, you will be more profitable when you get out, or you can spend the next 2-10 yrs after you get out paying for courses in the various fields you want to expand into.

You will not pick up the same skills without doing a 1 or 2 yr AEGD. Will staying in the Army an additional 1 or 2 yrs prohibit you from making your millions in private practice...probably not. Could it increase your earning potential in the civilian world if you are doing post graduate education...likely.

2) What happens if you come into the Army and the economy sucks or you decide you like it. Your options at that point will be more limited. Your decision while still in dental school to not pursue any additional training is short-sighted and decreases your options or delays your salary should you decide to stay in.

If you decide to stay in the Army and you have completed your 3 yr pay back, you now will owe more time and have longer before you are eligible to draw the higher "specialty" pay then if you had done it right off the bat.

 

[krmower]

I didnt know we could begin our commitment without doing a residency.

Did you not accept the accession bonus? Is that why your commitment will only be 3 years

You have to apply...you do not have to accept.

 

[AmericanHero]

Ok thanks for the explanation. Can you tell me about specializing with the military after dental school. I hear you have to serve back a year first and than apply. Is that true? Do people get in right away? If I decided to specialize and there is a year gap in between as waiting time I would definitely rather take advanced dentistry for a year than simply do 1 year payback.

 

[CougarDental]

Ok thanks for the explanation. Can you tell me about specializing with the military after dental school. I hear you have to serve back a year first and than apply. Is that true? Do people get in right away? If I decided to specialize and there is a year gap in between as waiting time I would definitely rather take advanced dentistry for a year than simply do 1 year payback.

krmower had responded to this ad nauseum. Search the boards for more details but this is basically what your timeline looks like

Accepted to residency during dental school - 1 year general dentistry, then start residency
accepted to residency on active duty, during 1 year AEGD for example - 1 year general dentistry after year of AEGD (1 year AEGD + 1 year snowbirding), then start residency
In the unlikely event that you've already completed BOLC and someone drops their spot in your desired program, and you're accepted in dental school, you could go straight into residency.

IMO, a year as a general dentistry is NOT the end of the world. It could even give you better insight as a specialist as to how to do treatment planning with the generals. Plus, it is a more relaxed year between dental school and starting a demanding residency.

 

[GOCHARGERS]

To the poster..if you've expressed your sentiments about getting out ASAP you may have shot yourself in the foot. According to the military dentists that I've talked to that's definitely something that you do not want to do. I was told that you'll pretty much get the short end of the stick when it comes to base selection and other requests that you may have. Might be from personal experience, but perhaps krmower can shed some light about this?

Also, while I commend you for taking the military scholarship and serving (thanks for service).. did you research anything aside from the fact that they would pay for school? You signed a pretty legitimate document and you don't even know what the obligation entails or could potentially entail.

 

[krmower]

To the poster..if you've expressed your sentiments about getting out ASAP you may have shot yourself in the foot. According to the military dentists that I've talked to that's definitely something that you do not want to do. I was told that you'll pretty much get the short end of the stick when it comes to base selection and other requests that you may have. Might be from personal experience, but perhaps krmower can shed some light about this?

Also, while I commend you for taking the military scholarship and serving (thanks for service).. did you research anything aside from the fact that they would pay for school? You signed a pretty legitimate document and you don't even know what the obligation entails or could potentially entail.

My expectation is that the assignments officers would treat people equally. With over 400 general dentists to coordinate jobs for, I don't know of any way they would have to track those who want to get out. Dentists coming in don't have to declare what their career plans are so this should not be considered/known. When the assignment officers make assignments, there are some categories of individuals who will get preference:

1) Individuals selected for a specialty program will go to the base where the program is and work as a general dentist while they are waiting for the program to start (unless they start immediately).

2) Individuals who have special considerations (family members with special medical needs or a compassionate issue i.e. parent with terminal illness, etc...).

3) Spouse that is military - Army or other service

4) Individuals coming back from overseas assignments or who had made other deals prior to taking an assignment (they agree to go somewhere where there was a need in exchange for someplace they want)

5) Individuals going to TOE units (combat units - special forces, brigade dentists, etc...)

6) Everyone else

As far as how individuals are treated - YMMV. If I was a Commander and knew that someone was getting out I would use that when deciding how to spend training funds...probably not send that individual to do things that someone else that was staying in wanted to do (forensics, EFMB, Airborne, Air Assault, Combat Casualty Care Course, nominate for certain awards, etc...).

I can not state how another dentist would view/rationalize an individual getting out. I would hope that all individuals would be treated equally i.e. a specialist would help and mentor someone getting out just as they would someone staying in - that's my hope/belief at least.

Even if I had plans on getting out, I would work hard and try to do my part and not burn any bridges. I would minimize negative comments towards the military realizing that I may need to request LORs from dentists that I work with should I want to apply for civilian training, or if I needed references for jobs that I may be applying for.

 

[krmower]

Ok thanks for the explanation. Can you tell me about specializing with the military after dental school. I hear you have to serve back a year first and than apply. Is that true? Do people get in right away? If I decided to specialize and there is a year gap in between as waiting time I would definitely rather take advanced dentistry for a year than simply do 1 year payback.

When you apply for specialty training December of your senior year you are applying for the class beginning 18 months later. There will typically be 1 year of an underlap before you begin your program. You will incur additional payback for any additional post-graduate training you do in the Army. In your specific situation having a 3 yr obligation coming into the Army, you can count on anywhere between a total of 4-10 yrs depending on what type of training you choose. The length will vary slightly depending on what program you do anywhere from the 1 yr AEGD or any of the other programs including OMFS training. Any of those training programs you do however increase your future salary potential in the military anywhere between $35k-100k/yr in additional bonus pay once your payback is done. So that immediately bumps your salary up to a nice 6 figure income.

 

[AFDDS]

(climbing up on my soap box)

The reason to do it is to invest in yourself and provide yourself with as many options as you can. You can have very specific professional goals after you graduate from dental school. Investing in yourself will never limit what you can do, however declining oportunities that will further your professional knowledge always will (or cause you to have to acquire them through other means) either in or out of the military.

2 points:

1) Who cares if there is no certificate associated with a 2 yr AEGD. In the civilian world people pay to attend CE all the time that does not give them any type of professional certificate. Why do they do it? So that they can offer their patients more options and increase their salary. The same can be said of the 1 or 2 yr AEGD. If you do them, you will be more profitable when you get out, or you can spend the next 2-10 yrs after you get out paying for courses in the various fields you want to expand into.

You will not pick up the same skills without doing a 1 or 2 yr AEGD. Will staying in the Army an additional 1 or 2 yrs prohibit you from making your millions in private practice...probably not. Could it increase your earning potential in the civilian world if you are doing post graduate education...likely.

2) What happens if you come into the Army and the economy sucks or you decide you like it. Your options at that point will be more limited. Your decision while still in dental school to not pursue any additional training is short-sighted and decreases your options or delays your salary should you decide to stay in.

If you decide to stay in the Army and you have completed your 3 yr pay back, you now will owe more time and have longer before you are eligible to draw the higher "specialty" pay then if you had done it right off the bat.

I know this is an Army thread, but I'd like to add my 2 cents worth. I agree woleheartedly with KRMOWER. I would even go so far as to ask, why wouldn't you do a residency? In the grand scheme of things, its only 1 or 2 years of your career in what will most likely be a 20-30 year career as a dentist.

I believe the training is invaluable. You get your full pay to do nothing but learn for 1-2 years. Meanwhile, classmates not in an AEGD are going to weekend courses with little to no oversight when they return to their practice to truly "practice" on their patients. You would be working with specialists and experienced dentists the entire time in your program. You'll walk out of your program years ahead of your dental school classmates.

Give it some thought and ask those that have done it. Then make your decision.

 

[AmericanHero]

I agree that specializing through the military is great and they really take care of us in general. I'm definitely coming out on top compared to my classmates who will be $400,000 in debt. The problem with military specialty is that since I have to do 1 year general payback first if i'm lucky to get in right out of school and than lets say do 3 years of prosthodontics, and my repayment will be another 3 years since HPSP and specialty are repaid concurrently. this thing becomes an 8 year ordeal in the army. That would put me in my 30s when I come out. I'm just not sure if that's what I want from my life and I'm not sure my parents would be ok with not seeing me for months at a time since specialty army bases are not in NY. It's a big life decision.
Would anyone care to comment on how this military training program and then repayment time effects your personal life. I would imagine you absolutely must be on base 5 days a week from 7am-5pm. What are your general thoughts on the army life? Starting a family while in the military?

 

[coolslugs]

I agree that specializing through the military is great and they really take care of us in general. I'm definitely coming out on top compared to my classmates who will be $400,000 in debt. The problem with military specialty is that since I have to do 1 year general payback first if i'm lucky to get in right out of school and than lets say do 3 years of prosthodontics, and my repayment will be another 3 years since HPSP and specialty are repaid concurrently. this thing becomes an 8 year ordeal in the army. That would put me in my 30s when I come out. I'm just not sure if that's what I want from my life and I'm not sure my parents would be ok with not seeing me for months at a time since specialty army bases are not in NY. It's a big life decision.
Would anyone care to comment on how this military training program and then repayment time effects your personal life. I would imagine you absolutely must be on base 5 days a week from 7am-5pm. What are your general thoughts on the army life? Starting a family while in the military?

You should have asked all of these questions before you took the scholarship. Your parents will have to get used the idea of you being away from NY, and even away from the US.

 

[LogOff]

It's nice to be close with your parents but come on man, time to cut the umbilical cord.

I agree that specializing through the military is great and they really take care of us in general. I'm definitely coming out on top compared to my classmates who will be $400,000 in debt. The problem with military specialty is that since I have to do 1 year general payback first if i'm lucky to get in right out of school and than lets say do 3 years of prosthodontics, and my repayment will be another 3 years since HPSP and specialty are repaid concurrently. this thing becomes an 8 year ordeal in the army. That would put me in my 30s when I come out. I'm just not sure if that's what I want from my life and I'm not sure my parents would be ok with not seeing me for months at a time since specialty army bases are not in NY. It's a big life decision.
Would anyone care to comment on how this military training program and then repayment time effects your personal life. I would imagine you absolutely must be on base 5 days a week from 7am-5pm. What are your general thoughts on the army life? Starting a family while in the military?

 

[AmericanHero]

You should have asked all of these questions before you took the scholarship.

You misunderstood. The questions were asked and were answered. I'm ok with a 3 year commitment. I'm asking for advice from people who decided to continue with the army by specializing with them and how it has effected their lives. 3 year repayment is not a problem at all. 8 years on the other hand puts your life on a completely different course. If you do 8 years, you might as well stay for another 7 and retire with 15 years under your belt. Its something to think about

 

[krmower]

You misunderstood. The questions were asked and were answered. I'm ok with a 3 year commitment. I'm asking for advice from people who decided to continue with the army by specializing with them and how it has effected their lives. 3 year repayment is not a problem at all. 8 years on the other hand puts your life on a completely different course. If you do 8 years, you might as well stay for another 7 and retire with 15 years under your belt. Its something to think about

So the alternative is to specialize outside of the military. Do your 3 years, get out, and apply to a program. Hope that you match at a location near your parents. Spend another 2-6 yrs (depending on the specialty) in that location (working 7-5 M-F...or longer depending on the specialty).

Depending on the location you go to you will either pay tuition to attend specialty training, or get a small stipend (much lower than what the military would pay you) for your residency. I recommend talking your plans over with both your parents and at least 2 trusted faculty members at your school so that you can make a well-informed decision.

You have some big decisions to make. If you are considering the military route for specialty training you will have to decide and apply by November of your senior year when the specialty packets are due...otherwise you will need to add an additional year to your timeline since you will work for at least 2 years as a general dentist if you don't apply/get in.

Retirement in the military is at 20 yrs. It is payable the minute you get out, don't have to wait until you are 62. In some states retirement pay is even tax-exempt (Google search to see which ones...I know Pennsylvania is one). If you don't want to do 20 then begin investing and saving for retirement early, just like you would have in private practice.

 

[docdok]

(climbing up on my soap box)

The reason to do it is to invest in yourself and provide yourself with as many options as you can. You can have very specific professional goals after you graduate from dental school. Investing in yourself will never limit what you can do, however declining oportunities that will further your professional knowledge always will (or cause you to have to acquire them through other means) either in or out of the military.

2 points:

1) Who cares if there is no certificate associated with a 2 yr AEGD. In the civilian world people pay to attend CE all the time that does not give them any type of professional certificate. Why do they do it? So that they can offer their patients more options and increase their salary. The same can be said of the 1 or 2 yr AEGD. If you do them, you will be more profitable when you get out, or you can spend the next 2-10 yrs after you get out paying for courses in the various fields you want to expand into.

You will not pick up the same skills without doing a 1 or 2 yr AEGD. Will staying in the Army an additional 1 or 2 yrs prohibit you from making your millions in private practice...probably not. Could it increase your earning potential in the civilian world if you are doing post graduate education...likely.

2) What happens if you come into the Army and the economy sucks or you decide you like it. Your options at that point will be more limited. Your decision while still in dental school to not pursue any additional training is short-sighted and decreases your options or delays your salary should you decide to stay in.

If you decide to stay in the Army and you have completed your 3 yr pay back, you now will owe more time and have longer before you are eligible to draw the higher "specialty" pay then if you had done it right off the bat.

Beautiful advice......

Hope the poster sees the big picture....

 

[docdok]

You misunderstood. The questions were asked and were answered. I'm ok with a 3 year commitment. I'm asking for advice from people who decided to continue with the army by specializing with them and how it has effected their lives. 3 year repayment is not a problem at all. 8 years on the other hand puts your life on a completely different course. If you do 8 years, you might as well stay for another 7 and retire with 15 years under your belt. Its something to think about

Ok, this is too funny

anyhow,

it's simple...you do your 3 years, apply to pros year before you get out. Use the post 9/11 gi bill and it pays for 3 years of your school

You become pros, you are out of military

Of course you will probably be back in a ton of debt....except for very few programs most pros programs are expensive....

your logic is totally financial...understandable, but when you are paying back your 3 years as a GENDEN you may stay the same or change your mind.....

You got options my friend; good luck on your career choice.