Why do we still celebrate Columbus Day?!

[BMBiology]

He changed history but he did kill over a million people:

https://www.quora.com/How-many-peop...ly-by-his-hand-or-by-the-conquests-led-by-him


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[zelman]

He changed history but he did kill over a million people:

View attachment 209775

https://www.quora.com/How-many-peop...ly-by-his-hand-or-by-the-conquests-led-by-him


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Because it's a day off of work?

 

[confettiflyer]

Sometimes I forget this is a holiday for people...everything's open that I use (all my Amazon deliveries came today, haha).

C'mon, this is California, it's all about Cesar Chavez Day!

 

[Amicable Angora]

He changed history but he did kill over a million people:

View attachment 209775

https://www.quora.com/How-many-peop...ly-by-his-hand-or-by-the-conquests-led-by-him


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Thank you for spreading the awareness, this is quite sad actually.

 

[Unchained]

Different era ladies and gents. Many things we find acceptable today will be looked upon 100's of years from now as horrible acts. Keep it in perspective.

 

[BMBiology]

Different era ladies and gents. Many things we find acceptable today will be looked upon 100's of years from now as horrible acts. Keep it in perspective.

Yes like still celebrating a man who killed over a million people.

California does not celebrate this man. Schools still open. No holidays. It is just another day.


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[Carol is Alpha]

They really do hide secrets in plain sight.

What's with all the Maltese crosses? The Templars became other orders, one of which was the Order of Christ in Portugal. Some very interesting cats were members of this club. Then eventually the Jesuits in 1540.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Christ_(Portugal)
The Military Order of Christ (Ordem Militar de Cristo), previously the Order of the Knights of Our Lord Jesus Christ(Ordem dos Cavaleiros de Nosso Senhor Jesus Cristo), was the former Knights Templar order...

A real good YT channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Secretsinplainsight/videos

They didn't teach us this stuff in school. Instead we got Shakes Spear stuffed down our gullets. Shakes Spear the 2nd greatest psyop off all time next to the Flavian scam.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Yes like still celebrating a man who killed over a million people.

California does not celebrate this man. Schools still open. No holidays. It is just another day.
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Yes, but you have to remember that California is a garbage state.
History and the figures held therein are not important only if they were Good™ people.

Do you want to stop celebrating the 4th of July because we dropped atomic bombs?

Should we erase President Obama from the history books because he's killed American citizens via drones without trials or because an American gunship destroyed a Doctors Without Borders hospital during his administration?

No.

Something doesn't stop being historically relevant because bad stuff happened.

This revisionist history based on this era of TRIGGERED® people needs to be stopped.

What happened at Rhodes is truly frightening.

 

[Digsbe]

The way I see it the Natives were already peoples at war with each other. They had warrior tribes, conquering of each other's lands, and killed for territory far before Europeans came. Europeans just had superior technology and won the battle. I think it's a double standard to paint the Natives as oppressed and Europeans as evil (even if they did do some wicked things) because the time back then everyone was killing someone else for territory. Situational ethics or the ethics of the time would say the European explorers played the same game and won due to superior technology.

I think the Trail of Tears was horrible and much of the warfare was cold-blooded. But at the time that's how humanity operated.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

The way I see it the Natives were already peoples at war with each other. They had warrior tribes, conquering of each other's lands, and killed for territory far before Europeans came. Europeans just had superior technology and won the battle. I think it's a double standard to paint the Natives as oppressed and Europeans as evil (even if they did do some wicked things) because the time back then everyone was killing someone else for territory. Situational ethics or the ethics of the time would say the European explorers played the same game and won due to superior technology.

I think the Trail of Tears was horrible and much of the warfare was cold-blooded. But at the time that's how humanity operated.

This.

The hyper politically correct era we're currently in will come to an end someday.

Only ethnocentric, TRIGGERED goofballs are so dumb that they can't interpret history for what it was and use it for what it is.

 

[confettiflyer]

This.

The hyper politically correct era we're currently in will come to an end someday.

Only ethnocentric, TRIGGERED goofballs are so dumb that they can't interpret history for what it was and use it for what it is.

That trigger warning applies to everyone who got their panties in a twist over not standing for the national anthem, hahah


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[BMBiology]

Yes, but you have to remember that California is a garbage state.

Calm down. Don't get your panties all wet.

If you want to celebrate this man knowing he killed over a million people then go ahead. I am just telling you what he did.

California is garbage huh? We pay more tax to the federal government than any other state. You sure love our tax money...don't you?

The way I see it the Natives were already peoples at war with each other. They had warrior tribes, conquering of each other's lands, and killed for territory far before Europeans came. Europeans just had superior technology and won the battle. I think it's a double standard to paint the Natives as oppressed and Europeans as evil (even if they did do some wicked things) because the time back then everyone was killing someone else for territory.

Do you know who else can also use your logic?
Adolf Hitler. The English and the French were always fighting each other right? He was merely there to bring peace to Europe.


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[Amicable Angora]

Calm down. Don't get your panties all wet.

If you want to celebrate this man knowing he killed over a million people then go ahead. I am just telling you what he did.

California is garbage huh? We pay more tax to the federal government than any other state. You sure love our tax money...don't you?



Do you know who else can also use your logic?
Adolf Hitler. The English and the French were always fighting each other right? He was merely there to bring peace to Europe.


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Nominate BMBiology for poster of the year!

 

[Digsbe]

Do you know who else can also use your logic?
Adolf Hitler. The English and the French were always fighting each other right? He was merely there to bring peace to Europe.


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Did you really just jump straight to Godwinning an argument? Guess any armed conflict uses the logic of Adolf Hitler then right?

North America was at war among Indian tribes, Europeans showed up, they engaged in the war and won. At the time they played the same exact game, they were just guilty due to being the victor in the conflict. Not saying bad things didn't happen to the Natives, but to paint them as these poor innocent victims isn't accurate. In the sense of situational ethics the Europeans did the same thing the Natives were doing, they just won at it.

 

[ldiot]

What... are we supposed to be apologizing for it instead? Everyone involved has been dead for a few hundred years and in all honestly no businesses actually close for it anyways that I'm aware of (except of course government employees who we pay to take a day off).

 

[Mad Jack]

He wasn't that great of a guy but I'm pretty whatever about it. People die when empires are forged, that's just how history works. We can look bank, high and mighty from our objective thrones, and say he was pretty damn evil, but evil built the world, and without it, most of us would either not exist or would be living under substantially worse conditions. To the victors went the spoils, and we were the victors.

Certainly, the guy shouldn't be celebrated. But he should be remembered, both for the things he accomplished and the atrocities he committed. Giving him a place of ambiguous infamy might prevent us from repeating history down the line.

 

[BMBiology]

Did you really just jump straight to Godwinning an argument? Guess any armed conflict uses the logic of Adolf Hitler then right?

North America was at war among Indian tribes, Europeans showed up, they engaged in the war and won. At the time they played the same exact game, they were just guilty due to being the victor in the conflict. Not saying bad things didn't happen to the Natives, but to paint them as these poor innocent victims isn't accurate. In the sense of situational ethics the Europeans did the same thing the Natives were doing, they just won at it.

There is no difference between war vs genocide to you?


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[ChalupaBatman86]

I have the sudden urge to listen to "Rage Against the Machine"


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[Mad Jack]

There is no difference between war vs genocide to you?


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Until modern times, we made no such distinction. War was genocide and genocide was war. You took land, you killed or enslaved the men, you raped the women, you took everything they owned and burned the temples of their gods. Only in modern times have we come to believe other cultures have inherent value, rather than the culture one belongs to being the "right" culture and all other cultures being "wrong."

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

What I *am* saying is that you're a fraud, phony, and insincere, BMBiology.

I'm saying that your Facebook activism is not only useless, it's dangerous.

My post isn't advocating celebrating anything. I certainly am against trying to hide any and all ugly parts of history because it isn't sugar coated.
Why is it that progressive© movements and the Islamic State both seem to want the erasure of historical monuments & figures that offend their respective ideologies?


But, I digress, what have you ever done for first nation people besides wag your finger in people's faces online for your own satisfaction? Being an individual with mostly unknown European to Native American ancestry, I'm curious as to how your post effects anything?

Please, stereotypical Californian social justice warrior, please enlighten me about this huge issue you researched on Buzzfeed.

And yes, California is a terrible state.
The gap between the wealthy and poor in California is second only to Manhattan.
Please look to San Francisco, where minorities and poor people have literally been segregated and ousted from the city.

Also, you should look into the Californian government's historical trend of abuse towards immigrants.

But sure, be proud of your state's contribution to the federal government.

 

[BMBiology]

Nobody cares about the progressive movement so get over yourself about this California crap. I call things as I see them.

Did you just lump me up with ISIS? Lol


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[confettiflyer]

I dunno y'all, Columbus was an a-hole, took us a while to figure it out so can we just knock it off with the holiday stuff and just have Halloween off instead?

At least there's candy and slutty costumes.


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[confettiflyer]

Nobody cares about the progressive movement so get over yourself about this California crap. I call things as I see them.

Did you just lump me up with ISIS? Lol


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He called you a social justice warrior....BAHAHAHAHHAHWHAHAHAHAHHA


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[Carol is Alpha]

This.

The hyper politically correct era we're currently in will come to an end someday.

Only ethnocentric, TRIGGERED goofballs are so dumb that they can't interpret history for what it was and use it for what it is.

Hey Khan, nice to see you back. is this what you mean by ethnocentric triggered goofballs?


or this? I call them Socially Engineered Etrade Babies.


http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/29435/

http://www.nationalreview.com/artic...ty-required-course-social-justice-coming-soon

They have degrees in this crap!!! What the hell happened? No wonder the youth are hopeless.
https://www.usfca.edu/education/pro...grams/teaching-urban-education-social-justice
http://global.k-state.edu/education/social-justice-education/curriculum/http://coe.k-state.edu/academics/graduate/certificates/social-justice-education/

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Nobody cares about the progressive movement so get over yourself about this California crap. I call things as I see them.

Did you just lump me up with ISIS? Lol


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LOL.
It was meant to illustrate a similarity in the desire to control historical narrative.

 

[Unchained]

Hey Khan, nice to see you back. is this what you mean by ethnocentric triggered goofballs?


or this? I call them Socially Engineered Etrade Babies.


http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/29435/

http://www.nationalreview.com/artic...ty-required-course-social-justice-coming-soon

They have degrees in this crap!!! What the hell happened? No wonder the youth are hopeless.
https://www.usfca.edu/education/pro...grams/teaching-urban-education-social-justice
http://global.k-state.edu/education/social-justice-education/curriculum/http://coe.k-state.edu/academics/graduate/certificates/social-justice-education/

This is perfect Carol. All of the socially engineered millennials on this site need to watch at least the second video. That guy in the front row is them. They were all told how special and unique they were as children. The damn baby boomers strike again.

 

[BenJammin]

Why do we celebrate it? Because state and federal employees want an excuse to not go to work but have to put a label on it in order to appear as if we're celebrating something.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Jesus. The level of idiocy in this thread. Seriously. Each and every one of you.

The level of whining coming from the left has been annoying for years. I've complained about it loudly on here. Ironically, it has produced this new emerging "alt-right" nonsense that is somehow even douchier than the aforementioned "social justice warriors." I mean, really? We are to the point where it's politically incorrect in right winged circles to point out that a dude 500 years ago was a slavemaster and mass murderer? Yeah. I typed politically correct. Guess what? You douches have your own set of political correctness as well. You are just too ****ing stupid to realize it.

All of you just stop typing. You're embarrassing yourselves.

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That said, the guy didn't even discover Americas, anyway. Both the Vikings and, I don't know, like a few million First Nations people already did. He's just like Edison and Steve Jobs. A ****ing fraud that gets credit for **** he didn't even do. Adding in the murder/slavery part just adds to the case against him particularly deserving a holiday.

But that's just my opinion.

 

[gwarm01]

I could almost respect Columbus day more if we just owned it and decided, yes, we are celebrating our bloodthirsty past and the massacre of the indigenous peoples. This is a celebration of our ruthless conquest and we are proud of our barbaric nature! Sure, it'd still be a dick move but at least the holiday would have more character. Plus I could reuse a lot of my decorations for Halloween.

What I *am* saying is that you're a fraud, phony, and insincere, BMBiology.

I'm saying that your Facebook activism is not only useless, it's dangerous.

I'll agree that Facebook activism is mostly useless and just done for show, but it's a little hyperbolic to consider this post in any way dangerous.

The gap between the wealthy and poor in California is second only to Manhattan.
Please look to San Francisco, where minorities and poor people have literally been segregated and ousted from the city.

This isn't unique to any given area. It's a really gross thing that happens whenever an area of limited space becomes highly desirable for the wealthy. Look at Hong Kong where the poor were literally living in cages. This is something I'm afraid is only going to get worse as city life becomes more and more desired. A couple generations back the wealthy people fled to the suburbs and the cities became the home of the poor, now it looks like we are seeing a reversal. It's really sad when people who have lived in an area for generations are forced out of their homes, or in California's case, often their home state. Also I think I made an unintentional parallel to Columbus and the conquest of the Americas.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

LOL.
This is great. I call someone an SJW and I get called "alt right"

Look, I've stood under the monument to Columbus in barcelona and said "what a dick"
My point is that yes, a lot of bad stuff happened in history.
Yes, Columbus was a horrible person.
Those are facts.
It's history.

Following this revisionist logic, the Egyptian pyramids shouldn't be celebrated because they're literal products of slavery.

A while back, I read a great article from the Smithsonian on this very subject.
If a historical figure was a bad or even evil person, does it totally undo every success or accomplishment they had?

My argument is that ignoring or concealing history because it makes you uncomfortable or offends you is dangerous.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

LOL.
This is great. I call someone an SJW and I get called "alt right"

Look, I've stood under the monument to Columbus in barcelona and said "what a dick"
My point is that yes, a lot of bad stuff happened in history.
Yes, Columbus was a horrible person.
Those are facts.
It's history.

Following this revisionist logic, the Egyptian pyramids shouldn't be celebrated because they're literal products of slavery.

A while back, I read a great article from the Smithsonian on this very subject.
If a historical figure was a bad or even evil person, does it totally undo every success or accomplishment they had?

You are conflating revisionism and rewriting. Nobody is trying to say Columbus wasn't an important man. Nor "erase" him from history. An example. Hitler was an important man. Hitler helped guide the design for the Volkswagen Beetle. Nobody wants to ban the Beetle. They still sell the Beetle. And, guess what, nobody wants a national Hitler day. In this case, nobody is trying to erase Columbus from history. History is what it is. People are just realizing that glorifying him is silly at best, revolting at worst. That's all. It really isn't more complicated than that nor is it a larger sign of whatever nonsense you are rambling about.

Also, the term "revisionist history" has recently gotten a weird bad rap in the last 20 years. Revisionism is simply to reexamine history though a modern lens. Yes, "Columbus = bad" is revisionist history. This isn't a bad thing like you seem to think it is. As human civilization improves and advances, we tend to see how silly ethics of the past are. We absolutely should criticize the actions of people in eras past. Revisionism isn't changing the FACTS of history, it's changing the subjective interpretation of history.

 

[owlegrad]

Is anyone saying we should ignore or conceal history? It literally sounds like the opposite - recognizing that people we celebrate in fact did some horrible things. Things so bad that hey, maybe they shouldn't have holiday's in their honor. Rewriting history is pretending that Columbus was a great guy who discovered the world is round and discovered America to boot. Total revisionist history.

But hey whatever this whole thread is dumb.

 

[owlegrad]

You are conflating revisionism and rewriting. Nobody is trying to say Columbus wasn't an important man. Nor "erase" him from history. An example. Hitler was an important man. Hitler helped guide the design for the Volkswagen Beetle. Nobody wants to ban the Beetle. They still sell the Beetle. And, guess what, nobody wants a national Hitler day. In this case, nobody is trying to erase Columbus from history. History is what it is. People are just realizing that glorifying him is silly at best, revolting at worst.

Also, the term "revisionist history" has recently gotten a weird bad rap in the last 20 years. Revisionism is simply to reexamine history though a modern lens. Yes, "Columbus = bad" is revisionist history. This isn't a bad thing like you seem to think it is. As human civilization improves and advances, we tend to see how silly ethics of the past are. We absolutely should criticize the actions of people in eras past. Revisionism isn't changing the FACTS of history, it's changing the subjective interpretation of history.

Damn it you beat me by seconds. I got the notice as I was posting my post.

 

[zelman]

Jesus. The level of idiocy in this thread. Seriously. Each and every one of you.

The level of whining coming from the left has been annoying for years. I've complained about it loudly on here. Ironically, it has produced this new emerging "alt-right" nonsense that is somehow even douchier than the aforementioned "social justice warriors." I mean, really? We are to the point where it's politically incorrect in right winged circles to point out that a dude 500 years ago was a slavemaster and mass murderer? Yeah. I typed politically correct. Guess what? You douches have your own set of political correctness as well. You are just too ****ing stupid to realize it.

All of you just stop typing. You're embarrassing yourselves.

------

That said, the guy didn't even discover Americas, anyway. Both the Vikings and, I don't know, like a few million First Nations people already did. He's just like Edison and Steve Jobs. A ****ing fraud that gets credit for **** he didn't even do. Adding in the murder/slavery part just adds to the case against him particularly deserving a holiday.

But that's just my opinion.

Edison and Jobs did plenty. It's not their fault that most people mis-attribute the accomplishments of others to them.

 

[gwarm01]

Recent evidence shows that the pyramids were built by skilled workers who were paid, so enjoy them guilt free.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Is anyone saying we should ignore or conceal history? It literally sounds like the opposite - recognizing that people we celebrate were in fact did some horrible things. Things so bad that hey, maybe they shouldn't have holiday's in their honor. Rewriting history is pretending that Columbus was a great guy who discovered the world is round and discovered America to boot. Total revisionist history.

But hey whatever this whole thread is dumb.

Actually, you're right.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Edison and Jobs did plenty. It's not their fault that most people mis-attribute the accomplishments of others to them.

That's fair. I'll grant you Edison. But Jobs really was just a poser with business acumen.

 

[BidingMyTime]

It's only fair to judge people by the standards of their own time, not by our current US standards. And I don't know enough history to say if Columbus was worse than others at that time in history, or if he was more of the same at that time. I suspect that he was just more of the same, that his behavior wasn't shocking for that time period.

Someone brought up Hitler--nearly everyone at that time was disgusted and shocked at the concentration camps, because that was NOT the norm in the 1930's/1940's.

I do think its dumb that we celebrate him, when everybody already knew the world was round, and others had already made it to the Americas (Columbus never even made it to the land that would become the US), and Columbus actually failed at what he was trying to do, get a trade route to India. But I always appreciated getting that day off in school, a day off in school is always good. At least I had an idea who Columbus was, unlike Casimer Polaski, but I always appreciated getting his day off as well.

 

[Pharmd = Phake Doctor]

That's fair. I'll grant you Edison. But Jobs really was just a poser with business acumen.

Edison, as in the dude who stole other people's ideas and appropriated them as his own. That Edison who hated the idea of AC power so much that he decided to electrocute an elephant in front of a crowd on Cony Island to prove AC current was dangerous. I hear Jobs wasn't a saint (far from it), but I think he holds up well against Edison.

 

[Pharmd = Phake Doctor]

I've lived all over the USA (Northwest, Northeast, Great Plains, Midwest, Texas) and the only region of the country where Columbus Day was still actively observed and celebrated was in the Northeast. A friend of mine told me it was because of the large Italian-American population in the tristate area. (For those who don't know, Columbus was Italian)

I wouldn't be surprised if a small group of congressmen representing New Jersey and New York in the federal government were the only thing preventing Columbus Day from being removed or changed. Congressmen from Ohio were able to block the federal government from changing the name of Mt. McKinley (in Alaska) to Denali for decades because of their persistent obstruction. (For those who don't know, McKinley was a congressman and later US President from the state of Ohio).

 

[BidingMyTime]

A friend of mine told me it was because of the large Italian-American population in the tristate area. (For those who don't know, Columbus was Italian)

Technically, Columbus was not Italian, because Italy did not exist as a country. Columbus was born in Genova, which is a part of Italy today. That's something I just learned from one of my kids.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Edison, as in the dude who stole other people's ideas and appropriated them as his own. That Edison who hated the idea of AC power so much that he decided to electrocute an elephant in front of a crowd on Cony Island to prove AC current was dangerous. I hear Jobs wasn't a saint (far from it), but I think he holds up well against Edison.

Edison actually tinkered with ****. Jobs couldn't even code. That's more what I'm getting at.

 

[confettiflyer]

I've lived all over the USA (Northwest, Northeast, Great Plains, Midwest, Texas) and the only region of the country where Columbus Day was still actively observed and celebrated was in the Northeast. A friend of mine told me it was because of the large Italian-American population in the tristate area. (For those who don't know, Columbus was Italian)

I wouldn't be surprised if a small group of congressmen representing New Jersey and New York in the federal government were the only thing preventing Columbus Day from being removed or changed. Congressmen from Ohio were able to block the federal government from changing the name of Mt. McKinley (in Alaska) to Denali for decades because of their persistent obstruction. (For those who don't know, McKinley was a congressman and later US President from the state of Ohio).

San Francisco has one of the largest Columbus Day celebrations in the US (since 1866). One day, it coincided with peak Fleet Week activities and the population of SF swelled with an extra 1.5M people.

Except.....they changed the name of the parade from the Columbus Day Parade to the "Italian Heritage Parade." But we still call it the Columbus Day Parade.

 

[Unchained]

I wonder if Iraq celebrates their day of liberation from Saddam. It was a modern day conquest which resulted in the killing of 10's of thousands of their people and our taking of their oil. I certainly appreciate the low gas prices.

 

[mustang sally]

No one seems to celebrate it in the past couple of states I've lived in. I don't know the last time my kid got the day off of school for it.