why do you want to be a vet?

[gotsoy]

I believe that by killing animals - whether for clothing or food, testing on them and eventually killing them, etc. is imposing unnecessary suffering on them. I don't think we have any right to do that. I also don't believe that killing animals because we want to eat them can ever be "humane." I don't think murdering anyone, regardless of how "nicely" it's done, is humane. I wouldn't want somebody to experiment upon me, my family, my friends, or any other being without their consent, regardless of how many lives it would save, how many medical advances it would bring. Even though banning these practices would bring setbacks, there are many alternatives out there to work with. But my belief is that all beings should be treated with compassion and not as commodities.

I don't think there are any careers that are totally AR friendly, unless you work with a Farm Sanctuary. PETA has gotten KFC to sell a vegan sandwich, aside from the contamination issue, it doesn't help. You'll just end up with people who wouldn't otherwise eat at KFC spending their mone y there. Psychiatrists and medical doctors prescribe medications tested on animals. Psychologists participate in tons of animal testing. In nutrition, much of the data also comes from animal testing. In academia, especially psychology and the natural sciences, a lot of the information comes from animal tests. I have a hard time thinking of a career that doesn't benefit or relate from the use of animals.

I think, as a veterinarian, you have a chance to give something back. I know it's not going to be ideal; I don't think anything is. And it's difficult to try and balance my beliefs with how things are, especially since I'm learning more everyday about what I believe, who I am, and who I want to become. Some of my beliefs aren't consistent; I feed meat to my adopted cats, for example. As a vegan, I feel like my inconsistencies are pointed out a lot more and picked apart, even in non-confrontational situations. I've reacted hostilely to some of the replies here and I apologize for that. It's taken me a long time to convince myself that I'm smart enough, that I'm competent, and capable of this. And I'm prepared to do whatever it takes to get into veterinary school, graduate, and get to work as a DVM.

I've heard a lot of positive things about VaMd's animal use, from omnivores, vegans, and vegetarians alike. I've also talked to some vegan veterinary schools at UPenn and Cornell, who say they're vegan-friendly but I'd like to research their animal use in their programs more still.

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[laurafinn]

Two people who are the same sex wanting to get married has no personal bearing on me or my life in general, regardless of whether I agree with their lifestyle or not. People who want to legislate certain dog breeds out of existence, take away all animals raised for food (even if done humanely and responsibly), and who want to stop all animal research DO personally impinge on me in a tangible way. And banning and/or killing all pit bulls (and likely other breeds) even if they are narcotics detection dogs, service dogs, therapy dogs, etc and being against the raising of all food animals (even if kept out on pasture with daily massages and Mozart being piped out to them) is at odds with society.

Thing is, in some circumstances, same sex marriage may impinge on some people. For instance, take a homophobic business owner who now has to pony up medical insurance for his gay employee's partner. The business owner might feel the same way about gay rights as you do about animal rights – it is affecting his life, and for the worse. (Personally, I'm pro-gay rights, I'm just using this because it's an easy parallel.)

Further, the anti-pitbull sentiment of Ingrid Newkirk is a side issue and, in itself, is not a good reason to dismiss the philosophical arguments of the animal rights movement. That would be like me deciding I'm anti-environmentalist and anti-conservation because the Bay Area Sierra Club chapter and the Audobon Society are very much against allowing dogs offleash in any open spaces. (Don't know if Sierra Club and the Audobon Society are still speaking out on this issue, but they were back when I lived in San Francisco). Personally, I don't like PETA much, and think they are dead wrong on the pit bull issue.

But just because you don't like PETA and feel like PETA dupes unsuspecting animal lovers doesn't mean animal rights arguments have no merit.

 

[pitbull lover]

Electrophile, you say "we SHOULD be able to get opinionated on things we believe strongly in. I would hope you would too" but I somewhat disagree. You know why? Because we are limiting ourselves when we stick to one idea and have no room for other people's opinions. What we are saying is this- I'm right and your wrong, and no matter what you say I won't listen to it because I have already made up my mind.

It doesn't help spouting what I believe in and trying to get people to agree with me- it just turns people off. The best way I can promote change is to live by example.

Look, this is what I believe in (and yes, I'm opinionated on this--I just try not to convince people that they have to believe the same): I believe in vegetarianism/veganism and humane treatment of animals. I believe that we can do more with animal welfare/rights especially in the veterinary field. I believe in pitbulls. I'm not for dog breed legislation and I am not a PETA supporter. I also have read what Ingrid Newkirk has said about pitbulls. But there is the example of the black and white thing-- You either are for PETA or not. I think PETA does some good things and some dumb things. But I'm not for or against PETA.

Gotsoy, I liked your post especially your 3rd paragraph which starts "I think, as a veterinarian, you have a chance to give something back" I totally identify with you. Well put. I want to surround myself with people like you.

Here's a quote I like:

“Be the change you want to see in the world.”
—Gandhi

 

[StealthDog]

The main inconsistency in being an animal-rights-supporting vet IMO is that, while animal welfare allows for the use of animals for human benefits (including research, meat, etc), animal rights does not. The ultimate conclusion of AR is that even pet ownership is anti-AR, because humans forced domestication upon animals. We created animals that are perpetually immature compared to their wild cousins, and cannot live comfortably without human support, which is unfair for the animals. AR supporters often make an analogy to a human living as a slave or in a harem- even if we take care of all our pets' physical needs like food, water, and medical attention, we will never give them autonomy. Is that a life worth living? AR says no, and whether or not it's a reasonable goal, would love to see domesticated animals spayed/neutered/slaughtered out of existence.*

This is the main reason groups like HSUS and PETA don't support animal shelters or euth 97% of the animals entrusted to their care. Whether or not you support this portion of AR, you have to acknowledge that a rights philosophy stands squarely opposed to keeping pets. I know not all vets work on cats and dogs, but the vast majority of us will end up working on domesticated species. Will you, as a vet, be able to look past this aspect of AR?

*ETA: ... although I believe that in 'The Omnivore's Dilemma', Michael Pollen got Peter Singer to admit that a humane life ended by a humane slaughter is better than no life at all...

 

[nyanko]

I believe that we can do more with animal welfare/rights especially in the veterinary field.

Animal welfare and animal rights are not the same thing, you cannot use them interchangeably like this.

 

[reefervet]

As for me, I want to work in a field where I can help animals. As a vegan & animal rights activist, helping non-human animals is my primary passion. Being able to make a difference, the challenge, the constant opportunities for growth and improvement, as well as the interaction with both humans and non-human animals really appeals to me.

Is medicine a passion for you as well? If not then veterinary medicine is not required for you to do these things you want and enjoy (and you won't have to deal with all the conflicts between vet med and animal rights).

For me it was actually human medicine that turned me on to veterinary medicine. I never even met a veterinarian until I was 18.

 

[reefervet]

not always, depends where you draw the line. There are different organizations that tend to agree with different things. Its sort of like vegans don't eat honey- I'm a vegan but I don't see a problem with eating honey, and I really like baklava. Just depends where you want to draw the line. And some people are for certain parts of an animal rights agenda, but not really against pet ownership.

What do you mean "it just depends where you draw the line?" Is it really that easy to work out the inconsistencies in animal rights philosophies? What about all the gophers, field mice, etc. that are *killed*, displaced and/or interfered with so that we can grow our crops and vegetables, which vegan animal rights activists also consume? What about the insects?

 

[twelvetigers]

I doubt the OP was counting on this can of worms...

 

[chris03333]

I doubt the OP was counting on this can of worms...

trust me the OP will have this can opened in vet school also

 

[twelvetigers]

That's right, I suppose it's good practice. But still, off the original subject!

If this argument comes up while I'm in vet school, do you think it would work to say that I'm exactly perfectly in the middle between PETA-ism and animals-don't-count-for-anything-ism? It's basically true.

 

[nyanko]

If this argument comes up while I'm in vet school, do you think it would work to say that I'm exactly perfectly in the middle between PETA-ism and animals-don't-count-for-anything-ism? It's basically true.

It's called "animal welfare" rather than "animal rights" in that case.

 

[chris03333]

That's right, I suppose it's good practice. But still, off the original subject!

If this argument comes up while I'm in vet school, do you think it would work to say that I'm exactly perfectly in the middle between PETA-ism and animals-don't-count-for-anything-ism? It's basically true.

Well you might as well read up on this (it's VERY likely to be on a vet school interview):
http://www.animalwelfarecouncil.com/html/aw/rights.php

You can also google "animal rights versus animal welfare" and get many different references.

 

[twelvetigers]

I'm aware of the whole argument, certainly. I'm just staying out of it for a reason - internet debate isn't my favorite pastime.

 

[nyanko]

Then why don't you stay out of it by not posting at all instead of needing to comment about how you don't like internet debates every time some sort of debate breaks out?

 

[Electrophile]

Electrophile, you say "we SHOULD be able to get opinionated on things we believe strongly in. I would hope you would too" but I somewhat disagree. You know why? Because we are limiting ourselves when we stick to one idea and have no room for other people's opinions. What we are saying is this- I'm right and your wrong, and no matter what you say I won't listen to it because I have already made up my mind.

It doesn't help spouting what I believe in and trying to get people to agree with me- it just turns people off. The best way I can promote change is to live by example.

On many issues, there is certainly room for discussion. And that's totally cool and that's what makes internet forums so fun! And as true as the "be the change you want to see in the world" quote is (and it's one of my favorites!), there is also a time for speaking one's opinions. Especially when all the other voices tend to be the loud extremes on both sides of argument, especially when some members of that contingent want to "free the animals" and tell me as a conscientious omnivore that "meat is murder." Which is highly annoying if you're a relatively moderate person in general, which I actually am.

The problem is that when the average forum reader (as there are always way more lurkers than posters, as you can tell by the number of views a thread gets) sees that there are people that are interested in vet med, but are very vocal about being staunchly pro animal rights, that may give them the idea that that particular mindset is not at odds with mainstream vet medicine, which I can assure you, it is.

Seeing animals treated with respect, kindness, and compassion is not at all at odds with vet medicine. Wanting liberate animals from their human captors and never wanting to see an animal die by human hands for food is, whether it's via PETA or some other AR activist. Honestly, anyone who is leaning that strongly towards the latter, I would suggest working for sanctuary or something similar. Not that I want to exclude different view points, but I do find it interesting that the vet students and vets are the ones on the inside telling the pre-vet AR and AR sympathetic folks (with the possible exception of Laura) it's not a good idea and it will a very difficult road ahead. I would heed that advice. We're saying it for a reason.

Look, this is what I believe in (and yes, I'm opinionated on this--I just try not to convince people that they have to believe the same): I believe in vegetarianism/veganism and humane treatment of animals. I believe that we can do more with animal welfare/rights especially in the veterinary field. I believe in pitbulls. I'm not for dog breed legislation and I am not a PETA supporter. I also have read what Ingrid Newkirk has said about pitbulls. But there is the example of the black and white thing-- You either are for PETA or not. I think PETA does some good things and some dumb things. But I'm not for or against PETA.

Gotsoy, I liked your post especially your 3rd paragraph which starts "I think, as a veterinarian, you have a chance to give something back" I totally identify with you. Well put. I want to surround myself with people like you.

Here's a quote I like:

“Be the change you want to see in the world.”
—Gandhi

I do see what you mean though about the whole organization. I don't have a problem with the second amendment or if people want to safely and responsibly own firearms, but I am not going to go out and support the NRA either. However, all of the rest of PETA's antics sour me on the whole organization, not the least of all the BSL issue. Are there nice people who support them and agree with them? Sure, I'm good terms with several, including the one who wrote me a nice LOR. Do they sincerely care about what they are doing and do they love animals? Sure. Is it important to have strong regulations and perhaps even watch dog groups to make sure humane standards are met in slaughterhouses, farms, and research labs? Sure, I'll buy that too. But be that as it may, anyone who wants to liberate all those poor animals in bondage would be best served (ironically enough) keeping and caring for those same animals in a sanctuary. To give you another example, I don't know if I'd join the military if I was a total pacifist either...I think that's what we're trying to say here.

 

[Electrophile]

I believe that by killing animals - whether for clothing or food, testing on them and eventually killing them, etc. is imposing unnecessary suffering on them. I don't think we have any right to do that. I also don't believe that killing animals because we want to eat them can ever be "humane." I don't think murdering anyone, regardless of how "nicely" it's done, is humane. I wouldn't want somebody to experiment upon me, my family, my friends, or any other being without their consent, regardless of how many lives it would save, how many medical advances it would bring. Even though banning these practices would bring setbacks, there are many alternatives out there to work with. But my belief is that all beings should be treated with compassion and not as commodities.

I think one thing you're going to have to come to grips with is those inconsistencies, even if you're wanting to do wildlife medicine and/or rehab. Don't feel like you have to answer these here, just some real world things to think about.

-If you're interested in wildlife, there will be animals that have no hope of rehabilitation into the wild, though they could live in captivity. Should those get euthanized because they won't be able to run, swim, or fly free?

-If not, if they can stay in a sanctuary or a zoo with proper enrichment and enclosures, what about if there isn't room and they have to euthanize the animals for space?

-If there is room, what if they have to be used as education animals as part of a permit (which is true for our raptor rehab facility)?

-Is this part of their slavery and exploitation ethical and any better than the AR folks consider zoos to be cheap entertainment?

-Which is worse, a formerly wild animal that now must be captive to live or a domesticated food animal which hasn't lived outside the company of man for 5000-10,000 years raised on pasture with its conspecifics, well treated, and humanely slaughtered?

-Speaking of food animals as commodities, what about the animals that must be fed to other animals? For animals that must stay in a sanctuary or zoo or those that are in the process of being rehabilitated, where will their food come from when your operating budget is barely shoestring?

-should you throw a live goat or deer or whatever to the big carnivores because it's more natural that way (just seeing videos of hyenas tearing into the intestines of a still living zebra is way more chilling than any video of a cow getting knocked at a slaughterhouse)?

-Will you be forced to euthanize more animals due to funds and space because you can only feed a certain diet?

 

[twelvetigers]

Hey now, my original post only pointed out that poor elephantom just made an innocent post asking about people's motivations to become a veterinarian and then it spiraled into something completely different. It was meant to be an idle comment, that's all.

 

[theunraveler]

the thing that grinds my gear with vegans and animal rights activist is that they are constantly in ur face and stepping on everyones toe. so u dun eat meat? big deal, u dun see meat eaters going around extolling the virtues of eating meat and painting vegetable eaters as cruel monsters who abuse the poor defenseless vegetables. who knows maybe vegetables are sentient too?

with animal rights activists, its juz the dumbest thing around. these PETA fags and their ilks are rebels WITHOUT a cause. they're juz protesting for the sake of protesting. so u wanna give animal rights? wat are they gonna do with it? with rights come responsibilities as well. say u give them the right not to be eaten by humans, but then carnivores are going to end up eating their preys and in the end to protect the prey we're going to have to kill the carnivores (get my drift?).

take my school for example, recently some jackass wrote some letter citing our use of pound dogs destined to die for use in veterinary medicine as cruel and it cause a big hoo ha in the community especially in emotional (read: nonthinking) humans who responded with a barrage of mails telling the city council to stop providing animals for use by vet students. in the end this deprived us of a valuable learning experience and for wat? just so some jerk can massage his/her ego and push his/her ethical viewpoints on everyone.

from the moment we are born into this world, we are users of products that are tested on animals. from the vaccines that u were given as a baby to the life sustaining equipment in pediatrics. so animal rights activists have already lost even before they began, if they are so intent on opposing animal testing to the letter they should shoot themselves in the head first to prove their dedication to the cause...

vet medicine is not about cute puppies and sunshine, all of us doing vet medicine will at some point make a decision that will weigh heavily on our conscience. its better that those dreamy glassy eyed idealist realise that now then waste a few years/money and another potential vet student's space to come to realise that in vet medicine u cannot afford the luxury of compassion that common ppl have for animals

 

[tastrophe]

the thing that grinds my gear with vegans and animal rights activist is that they are constantly in ur face and stepping on everyones toe. so u dun eat meat? big deal, u dun see meat eaters going around extolling the virtues of eating meat and painting vegetable eaters as cruel monsters who abuse the poor defenseless vegetables. who knows maybe vegetables are sentient too?

LOL, a little OT here, but have you seen the new Wendy's commercial? Meatatarian...

 

[theunraveler]

LOL, a little OT here, but have you seen the new Wendy's commercial? Meatatarian...

i'm in australia , i dun think we have Wendy's here..

 

[ylrebmik]

the thing that grinds my gear with vegans and animal rights activist is that they are constantly in ur face and stepping on everyones toe. so u dun eat meat? big deal, u dun see meat eaters going around extolling the virtues of eating meat and painting vegetable eaters as cruel monsters who abuse the poor defenseless vegetables. who knows maybe vegetables are sentient too?

with animal rights activists, its juz the dumbest thing around. these PETA fags and their ilks are rebels WITHOUT a cause. they're juz protesting for the sake of protesting. so u wanna give animal rights? wat are they gonna do with it? with rights come responsibilities as well. say u give them the right not to be eaten by humans, but then carnivores are going to end up eating their preys and in the end to protect the prey we're going to have to kill the carnivores (get my drift?).

take my school for example, recently some jackass wrote some letter citing our use of pound dogs destined to die for use in veterinary medicine as cruel and it cause a big hoo ha in the community especially in emotional (read: nonthinking) humans who responded with a barrage of mails telling the city council to stop providing animals for use by vet students. in the end this deprived us of a valuable learning experience and for wat? just so some jerk can massage his/her ego and push his/her ethical viewpoints on everyone.

from the moment we are born into this world, we are users of products that are tested on animals. from the vaccines that u were given as a baby to the life sustaining equipment in pediatrics. so animal rights activists have already lost even before they began, if they are so intent on opposing animal testing to the letter they should shoot themselves in the head first to prove their dedication to the cause...

vet medicine is not about cute puppies and sunshine, all of us doing vet medicine will at some point make a decision that will weigh heavily on our conscience. its better that those dreamy glassy eyed idealist realise that now then waste a few years/money and another potential vet student's space to come to realise that in vet medicine u cannot afford the luxury of compassion that common ppl have for animals

I'm sorry if this comes out wrong... its the internet you can't hear people's tone. haha. but activists push their ideals on people... I still can't get it through my head how it is horrible for an animal rights activits to hand out pamphlets and everyone raises their eyebrows but I get pamphlets every day at work from religious people telling me about jesus and god and this and that. I'm not exagerating... every day. I almost flew off the handle one day. Off-Topic I know, but it just bugs me because of what I see around here and my dad is this super uptight republican who doesn't give a care about an animal unless economically it helps. and actually there is a religion that believes that veggies are important and shouldn't be killed. janism. I also highly resent your statement about animal rights activists protesting just to protest... they have a purpose their trying to accomplish and that isn't just to protest.
I'm sort of in the middle between animal welfare and animal rights. I'm really not fond of some types of research and people eating meat and I don't have a problem with domesticated animals but I don't preach really... I believe its all a personal choice. I get more people preaching to me and ridiculing me for not eating meat.. offering me over 10000 dollars to meat over the last 2 years... I find it highly disrespectful since I'm not trying to change anyone else's opinion on meat. Sorry, offtopic again. :/

haha wendy's is a fast food joint that serves chicken and burgers and such. They had a commerical with a "meatatarian" a while ago. There was another commerical their slogan was Go meat! but it was for some meat company.

 

[Electrophile]

these PETA fags

Dude...

 

[nyanko]

I still can't get it through my head how it is horrible for an animal rights activits to hand out pamphlets and everyone raises their eyebrows but I get pamphlets every day at work from religious people telling me about jesus and god and this and that.

Yeah, religious nutballs handing out stuff is just as annoying as PeTA handing out pamphlets. What's your point?

 

[theunraveler]

I'm sorry if this comes out wrong... its the internet you can't hear people's tone. haha. but activists push their ideals on people... I still can't get it through my head how it is horrible for an animal rights activits to hand out pamphlets and everyone raises their eyebrows but I get pamphlets every day at work from religious people telling me about jesus and god and this and that. I'm not exagerating... every day. I almost flew off the handle one day. Off-Topic I know, but it just bugs me because of what I see around here and my dad is this super uptight republican who doesn't give a care about an animal unless economically it helps. and actually there is a religion that believes that veggies are important and shouldn't be killed. janism. I also highly resent your statement about animal rights activists protesting just to protest... they have a purpose their trying to accomplish and that isn't just to protest.
I'm sort of in the middle between animal welfare and animal rights. I'm really not fond of some types of research and people eating meat and I don't have a problem with domesticated animals but I don't preach really... I believe its all a personal choice. I get more people preaching to me and ridiculing me for not eating meat.. offering me over 10000 dollars to meat over the last 2 years... I find it highly disrespectful since I'm not trying to change anyone else's opinion on meat. Sorry, offtopic again. :/

haha wendy's is a fast food joint that serves chicken and burgers and such. They had a commerical with a "meatatarian" a while ago. There was another commerical their slogan was Go meat! but it was for some meat company.

the handing of pamphlets doesnt irk me, its when they interfere with life saving research that ticks me off. think of those *******s who burn down research labs, harrass the scientists and break into high security labs to "free" the animals. not only do these guys not know the consequences of their actions, they risk releasing diseases into general populace with their breakins (think 28 Days Later)

i feel they are protesting for the sake of it, like those ppl who go "Free Tibet" but dun even know where Tibet is on the atlas. wat is it they want to accomplish? bring us back to the dark ages? grind medical research to a halt?

i think its sad that ppl try to convert u to meat eating since u already made a conscious choice to go vegetarian and i hope ppl would be more understanding to ur position and not enforce their view on u

 

[theunraveler]

Dude...

in australia *** means some one who is disliked or a stupid person...kinda like wanker

 

[Electrophile]

In America, it means the same thing. If you're twelve.

 

[twelvetigers]

"You say Hillshire, I say Farm. Hillshire... Farm! GO MEAT!"

Is that the reference you were looking for?

I noticed that Wendy's is peddling bacon on MySpace. Yesterday the background for he login page was like, a sheet of bacon strips.

 

[chordy4]

"You say Hillshire, I say Farm. Hillshire... Farm! GO MEAT!"

Is that the reference you were looking for?

I noticed that Wendy's is peddling bacon on MySpace. Yesterday the background for he login page was like, a sheet of bacon strips.

this made my morning...

...partially because i'm picturing a corgi saying that in my head

 

[laurafinn]

PETA fags

Geez, homophobia is soooo retro.

"***," even in Australia, is a derogatory word for homosexual, it's not simply like calling someone a jerk.

 

[theunraveler]

Geez, homophobia is soooo retro.

"***," even in Australia, is a derogatory word for homosexual, it's not simply like calling someone a jerk.

funny..i thought i explained it earlier on. sometimes we call each other that in jest...if u feel offended well too bad

In America, it means the same thing. If you're twelve.

young at heart i guess

 

[HeartSong]

I want to be a vet so that I can get into pointless debates about whether animals should have rights or not, and if so how many and what kinds.

((Note: I'm not saying all debates about animal rights are pointless, only ones that have no chance of producing change.))

 

[twelvetigers]

Or ones that are childish and demeaning in nature. Just a thought.

(I'm pretty sure that Chloe would indeed say, "Go meat!" if she could. Or, more accurately, "Go food!" If it's edible, she's game.)

 

[Nikki2291]

i'm thinking about becoming pre-vet, and was just curious why/how all of you guys decided you wanted to be a vet (yep, the age old question haha)

hey everyone, I'm new here, not a vet yet but am seriously considering getting ready and going into vet school (can't wait, i got alot of work ahead of me), and my answer to that question is: I decided I wanted to become a vet when I was 14 and why is because I absolutly adore all animals. I think that their medical health is very important. One thing that really interests me is small animal radiology. I just got my first stethoscope today too and I've been chasing my pets around with it .

 

[HeartSong]

Or, more accurately, "Go food!" If it's edible, she's game.)

Does it have to be food? In the last few days, mine has chewed plastic bottles (this time deciding not to eat the supplements inside), tasted baby powder (hmm, not as tasty as one would think ), and consumed his leather treat pouch (which didn't stay down very long). Having a cat changes everything. Nothing that is "out of reach" any longer because he just convinces the cat to knock it down for him.

 

[twelvetigers]

We have two cats, one of which is responsible for Chloe's accidental ingestion of about 1/3 of a candy bar. Thankfully, only an off-brand milk chocolate sort so it wasn't nearly enough to cause problems. She doesn't really show interest in anything non-food... except Kleenexes and napkins. The more heavily used, the better. (Eww!)

 

[chris03333]

Or ones that are childish and demeaning in nature. Just a thought.

(I'm pretty sure that Chloe would indeed say, "Go meat!" if she could. Or, more accurately, "Go food!" If it's edible, she's game.)

Well not sure if you are referring to me but...

after seeing colleagues get death threats, or have their house (or oops the neighbor's house) get fire boomed, sure I will take the label as "childish" about my strong opinions about "animal rights".

 

[twelvetigers]

I definitely wasn't referring to you or your opinions! Your posts are very grown up and sensible in nature.

(In my own opinion, of course. In case anyone was confused about that.)

 

[david594]

I guess I agree with some of the PETA views, I was browsing the website and came across this video:

http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp?video=abc_the_talk_psa&Player=qt

(its pro spay and neuter).

 

[nyanko]

I definitely wasn't referring to you or your opinions! Your posts are very grown up and sensible in nature.

I'm glad that you have deemed yourself the arbiter of such things!

 

[HeartSong]

I think people must be going back to school and missing some sleep! It's starting to sound like pre-meds on here.

 

[Nikki2291]

Uuummm....Apparently I missed something here...wasn't this thread for "why you want to be a vet"? Just wondering....Just to throw my 2 cents worth in, I totally believe in and support animal rights....but I loooovvveee bacon!

 

[nyanko]

Look, discussion on animal rights vs animal welfare fits fine within the context of why someone would want to be a vet.

I don't understand why certain people on this forum get so whiny when there is debate happening. If you don't like to argue on the internet, then just don't. Scan over those posts and don't respond to them. Move on with your life. There's no need to have a running commentary on how much you disapprove of the arguing without contributing anything real to the discussion. NOBODY CARES!

Wow, sorry, I had to get that out though. I like this forum but that is something that really annoys me about it!

Uuummm....Apparently I missed something here...wasn't this thread for "why you want to be a vet"? Just wondering....Just to throw my 2 cents worth in, I totally believe in and support animal rights....but I loooovvveee bacon!

And if you eat bacon then you are probably not an ANIMAL RIGHTS supporter. You probably believe that the animals should be treated humanely and care about their well-being before and during slaughter, but it'd be pretty weird to eat beings to which you ascribe "rights."

 

[twelvetigers]

I was just putting myself in the place of the original poster and wondering what she must think if she looks back at this thread. I mean seriously, it turned into something way beyond the original subject matter. Then, when I thought someone had assumed that I wasn't sure of the difference between rights and welfare, I explained that I did, I just didn't care to argue about it here.

I have as much of a right to post here as anyone else, even if you happen to think my posts are pointless or stupid and they get on your nerves. If they bother you, then YOU can "scan over those posts and don't respond to them." Don't tell me that NOBODY CARES what I have to say. It's rude. If YOU don't care, that's fine.

 

[Electrophile]

I guess I agree with some of the PETA views, I was browsing the website and came across this video:

http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp?video=abc_the_talk_psa&Player=qt

(its pro spay and neuter).

So David, do you think ALL pets (oh, I'm sorry...companion animals) should be spayed or neutered? Having done years of shelter/rescue volunteering and fostering and acutely aware of the pet overpopulation problem aside, one thing the "don't breed or buy while homeless animals die" folks need to understand is that not everyone can have their needs met by a shelter/rescue dog. If you're looking for a good SAR, police/military working dog, performance sport, assistance etc dog, you've got a lot higher chances of success with going with proven breeders who do health tests, temperament tests, and tests for working ability.

Sure, if you're like 99% of the population that just wants a nice pet to play ball and veg out on the couch with, a dog from a shelter or rescue is usually my first suggestion. And not to say that great high achieving dogs don't come out of shelters (as I have done evaluations on some to test drive and working ability) because there has been, but there's not enough to support the demand for search and rescue, assistance/service dogs, police dogs, etc. because those dogs have been specially bred with those very specific traits in mind. Not the idiotic "see the miracle of birth," "my dog needs his balls to be a man," "she needs a litter to settle down," "we want to make some nice puppies from our nice dogs" (while the bitch is submissive peeing in the corner of the exam room and the male dog is about as smart as a box of rocks, which I've personally seen).

Responsible breeders aren't the ones adding to the overpopulation problem. In fact, many of them help out with shelter/rescue work. Notice though that PETA says ALWAYS spay and neuter. They'd prefer to spay and neuter dogs and cats out of existence so they won't be burdened by the chains of living in slavery to us humans.

 

[david594]

So David, do you think ALL pets (oh, I'm sorry...companion animals) should be spayed or neutered?

I guess I missed the "Always..." part at the end of the video. Or selectively took it to mean everyone with the exception of legitimate breeders.

I've said it in the past that I am very much in support of quality breeders. I work at a repro clinic and see them day in and day out and would really have no qualms about getting an animal from nearly any of them.

As opposed to the clients who come in with their 2 year old dog to get their first rabies vaccine(probably because a neighbor threatened to call the cops on them, so they want to atleast get the dog legal) and when asked if they plan to spay/neuter just say "Oh, well we were thinking we might eventually breed him/her." All while you stand their scratching your head wondering if their dog is actually a chiahauhau/beagle mix like the owner says. This being the last time we see the animal after they realize they can just get their rabies vaccine at petco... until 5 years later when they bring their bitch in for "really heavy bleeding" a month after her last heat due to the pyometra she developed or their stud who just got wacked by a pickup truck when he was out exploring the neighborhood "hunting for some tail."

Still think the video is kinda funny

 

[chris03333]

(In my own opinion, of course. In case anyone was confused about that.)

cool

 

[Electrophile]

I guess I missed the "Always..." part at the end of the video. Or selectively took it to mean everyone with the exception of legitimate breeders.

I've said it in the past that I am very much in support of quality breeders. I work at a repro clinic and see them day in and day out and would really have no qualms about getting an animal from nearly any of them.

Hehe, that's okay, this morning I thought to myself "wait a second, didn't he say on another thread he supported responsible breeders?" No worries, it's all good.

 

[KittenKiller]

I've said it in the past that I am very much in support of quality breeders. I work at a repro clinic and see them day in and day out and would really have no qualms about getting an animal from nearly any of them.

Still think the video is kinda funny

Is it just me or did that video imply the daughter should be spayed?

On another note, I don't think people should have a problem with buying pets from reputable breeders if they don't have a problem bringing human children into the world themselves (which most people don't). They're LOTS of unwanted children in the world, so I think it would be hypocritical to scoff at people who don't adopt pets while thinking it's quite okay to bring more babies into the world.

edit: oops sorry to revive an old thread.

 

[twelvetigers]

Conversely, we get a lot of clients that use the Companion Animal Assistance Program, or CAAP, to get their animals spayed/neutered and vaccinated. Many of these people are elderly or disabled and clearly need the assistance. However, it really rubs me the wrong way when someone comes in with a dog and lets us know that they just bought it from a breeder, but they are using CAAP to pay for the surgery. IF you can pay $350 for the dog in the first place, you should be able to pay the ~$100 for the surgery and vaccination.

I don't have a problem with people buying from (good) breeders. I got my corgi for free, but probably wouldn't get so lucky again and will have to find a breeder at some point.

My sister has five children, but she (and her husband) can afford and care for each and every one of them just fine. I don't think that she should be chastised for that, and I suppose I feel the same way about buying from breeders. If you do your research, make smart purchases, and care for them properly, it's fine. Just consider adopting from a rescue or shelter as well. However, I feel like a lot of people don't even consider the shelters or rescues. They just see those cute puppies in the Wal-Mart parking lot and go buy one.

And, on a side note, what's with charging $150 for "purebred Maltipoos"? I mean, are you kidding me? Seriously, people.

 

[pressmom]

And, on a side note, what's with charging $150 for "purebred Maltipoos"? I mean, are you kidding me? Seriously, people.

Hey, I paid $105 for my maltipoo....at the shelter! See my current avatar!