"Why doctor kill themselves"

[lexington251]

Found this TED talk, and just wanted to see what others think. Is she overemphasizing the stress of medical school? Or is it really that brutal?

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[Mr. Poopy Butthole]

Mr. Poopy Butthole would like to point out that chronic sleep deprivation is the breeding ground of many mental illnesses.

 

[CHoge25]

she seems a little out there... probably not healthy to hang out in a morgue as a child

 

[Mad Jack]

She's a pretty shameless self promoter, but nice and well intentioned, albeit definitely outside the mainstream of medical thought.

 

[JustAPhD]

Sleep deprivation, high and constant levels of stress, with a sprinkle of imposter syndrome and you create a recipe for disaster.

 

[Spinach Dip]

she seems a little out there... probably not healthy to hang out in a morgue as a child

Chronic respiratory formaldehyde exposure BUILDS CHARACTER.

-My grandpa.

 

[Takamori]

Well, I enjoy stress as well as sleep...

 

[Spinach Dip]

Sleep deprivation, high and constant levels of stress, with a sprinkle of imposter syndrome and you create a recipe for disaster.

 

[Bacchus]

Her delivery is unique. But she's right. She's not down-playing the issues at all. Even the happiest and most resilient get beaten down. I'm glad she's trying to shine a light on something that is too often swept under the rug.

 

[7331poas]

She's a pretty shameless self promoter, but nice and well intentioned

Pretty much every single TED talk ever delivered. Do people like watching these?

 

[Azete]

It's all relative. Ask a 4th year how hard med school is and they'll tell you it's not that bad since they're well rested. Ask a resident, and they'll tell you to run for the ****ing hills.

Humans are not made to work 100 hours a week with 20 total hours of sleep and maintain health/sanity.

Most stressed med students are either inherently neurotic or terrible with time management. There's a silent majority of med students that agree med school isn't that bad, definitely not more so than most full time jobs. But we all have insane egos, and nobody likes to admit that most people that didn't get accepted probably could have done it also.

 

[pageantry]

God, I wanted to kill myself after five seconds of that Enya/neuron intro clip.

 

[Lost in Translation]

Sleep deprivation, high and constant levels of stress, with a sprinkle of imposter syndrome and you create a recipe for disaster.

Should be noted, for any profession, not just medicine. IB, law, etc.

 

[idontwatchgreysanatomy]

NEVER FORGET - REST IN PIECE

 

[IlDestriero]

You have to maintain balance.
If you really need to spend 6-8 hours in class/lab/small group and another 6-8 hours studying every day, something is very wrong.
Exercise, socialize, sleep, and study. All are critical to your health, and without that, you have nothing.


--
Il Destriero

 

[mspeedwagon]

I think it's fair. I know at least three physicians that killed themselves in the last year (all in NYC). Virtually all got little to no reporting in the news. The constant stress and having to constantly prove you belong is overwhelming. We are facing a crisis. If as many people killed themselves in another profession, it would be considered a huge deal. Less so with medicine... it's almost like it's expected.

 

[7331poas]

I think it's fair. I know at least three physicians that killed themselves in the last year (all in NYC). Virtually all got little to no reporting in the news. The constant stress and having to constantly prove you belong is overwhelming. We are facing a crisis. If as many people killed themselves in another profession, it would be considered a huge deal. Less so with medicine... it's almost like it's expected.

Tons of people kill themselves every year, why should a few doctors be special in getting reported.

 

[mspeedwagon]

Because you look at the stats, the one thing A LOT of the people that commit suicide in the US have in common is that they are doctors (roughly 400 a year). As a matter of fact it's ridiculous how disproportionate it is compared to suicides in other professions. In most other areas, when a trend is identified, we react. However, that hasn't been the case with physician suicides. We just accept it.

Tons of people kill themselves every year, why should a few doctors be special in getting reported.

 

[Spinach Dip]

Because you look at the stats, the one thing A LOT of the people that commit suicide in the US have in common is that they are doctors (roughly 400 a year). As a matter of fact it's ridiculous how disproportionate it is compared to suicides in other professions. In most other areas, when a trend is identified, we react. However, that hasn't been the case with physician suicides. We just accept it.

The American public has no pity for 1%ers.



And, IIRC, the occupation with the highest frequency of suicides is dentists. There's something about 4 years of dental school which makes an individual think they deserve more than 80k/yr for scrubbing tartar off spoiled kids' primary teeth.

 

[7331poas]

More soldiers die from suicide than from combat. We haven't addressed that either. I think you are way off base with this persecution complex.

If physicians want to work less hours they are free to do so. Pay off you loans and live a nice life if you want. But our observations say that's not what physicians choose to do.

 

[Terry Toma]

God, I wanted to kill myself after five seconds of that Enya/neuron intro clip.

That really bothered me. The neuron in the intro video is myelinated, but they clearly depict the action potential traveling continuously down the axon (assuming the little white ball of light is meant to symbolize the AP). The whole point of a myelinated neuron is that the AP jumps from node to node! Damn waste of Schwann cells (and why are there Schwann cells, anyway? The neurons are depicted as being located in the brain.).

Anyway, back on topic: Lots of people end up hating jobs that they thought they'd love, but in most cases, those people can pretty easily switch tracks and go try something else out. That luxury doesn't exist for most in medicine, though. A physician has spent so much time and money on their education that walking away is psychologically difficult, if not financially impossible. I don't think that medicine is a worse career than any other, but I can see how people who don't enjoy it get stuck in the profession. I assume that's where a lot of the misery comes from: people who picked a career that wasn't a good fit, but were too invested to turn back by the time they realized it.

 

[Bacchus]

I would love to see this thread when the majority of you are residents.

 

[DingoPingo]

I was interested in this topic.

There is a thread about a specific circumstance involving mental health in residency from last year: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/resident-friend-joked-about-suicide.1116935/

Here is a quotation from that thread that I think is very revealing: "Update: I have spoken to my friend about the suicide joke, especially as he has made another suicide joke shortly after the first. The problem: he is in denial and looked absolutely terrified when I told him that I think he has a problem and needs help (I think because of the prospect of possibly being kicked out of the program and I don't know if a temp LOA is financially feasible for him at the moment). He was very upset and evasive when I tried to bring up the subject and does not appear to want to seek help, even when I told him that I know some very good therapists who are not associated with his program. He has since stopped talking to me and expressed that he no longer wishes to have face to face contact with me. I want him to get help but I don't want to be accused of harassment. I do not know any of his coresidents or family members because he's never introduced me to any of them. I know that he is not very close to his family."

You either reveal your mental illness and risk the possibility of being kicked out of the program, or you hide it and hope it doesn't kill you. I think that's the crux of the issue. Medical students/residents are under such high pressure that they don't have a chance to "take a break." That leaves them with a loss-loss scenario.

I have personally been in a similar situation with mental illness. Revealing mental illness to others can often backfire because it might result in an institutional action that might bar you from completing your education. I was extremely angry when it happened, so I understand the behavior of the "suicidal" friend. I believe there are tremendous flaws in academic policies regarding mental illness that need to be addressed.

I also think this is not just a problem with medicine but with any high-stress job, but it's no less of an issue. Stigma of mental illness has and will be everywhere. If interested, the film "Ordinary People" in 1980 is a great depiction of the stigma; one of my favorite films ever.

 

[Stagg737]

Holy drama she reminds me of the feelings scene from Mean Girls...

On a more serious note. Yes, it can be this big of an issue at times. There will likely be times when you hate your life and wonder why you're doing it and if it's worth it. That's true for most jobs though, the big difference is the stress we put on ourselves and knowing that we're directly responsible for the lives and health of others. It makes us feel like failing means not only failing ourselves, but failing everyone else as well. Combine that with the random and unnecessary bs that many physicians deal with, and it's a little easier to why students and physicians could get to the point of suicide. However, there's a lot more to it than that. Balance has been mentioned, but I also think a realistic perspective on what physicians actually do when you enter med school is important as well. It's part of why some schools emphasize shadowing, so their students know what they are potentially getting into before they realize as interns that they really weren't meant to be doctors.

 

[Medgrant]

How would this even be addressed? Medicine is only becoming more complex over time.

 

[ProspectiveKidd]

How would this even be addressed? Medicine is only becoming more complex over time.