Why does everyone crush your dreams?

[Bound4SGU]

I am sooooo sick of U.S. premeds...they are so annoying. All they do is constantly compete and compare who is better...who gives a crap? I came on this forum in hopes of getting some inspiration, motivation, help, and support. Instead all I have been hearing is "oh you must be stupid b/c you want to go to SGU" Well first of all I'm NOT stupid. I got my undergrad at Berkeley with a gpa of 3.9 in Molecular Cell Biology. I don't think that is stupid at all. I want to go to SGU b/c:

1. I have been working with numerous doctors, med students, and residents who have gone and all LOVE it. They are all fine doing what they are doing and no they are not all doing family medicine.

2. The average temp is 75...beach front...what a nice place to get away from the stress of being in the U.S.

I don't understand. I wanted to go b/c i enjoy working with international students, I love to travel, and I love to explore the outside world. I want to be a doctor b/c I love people. Yet all i hear is, oh so you want to do Family medicine then, as if that could be a bad thing? Doctors are really starting to piss me off. So you are in it for the money? There is nothing wrong with family practice...you are a doctor, you help people, you have a comfortable life, just be happy.

The one thing I hate the most about all these doctors is the power trip. Get over yourself...the world doesn't revolve around you. So you got into Johns Hopkins, good for you. Not everyone wants to go there. I don't. I don't think it is b/c I can't get in, I just don't like the atmosphere. Even if I can't get in, who gives a crap? Does that affect you in anyway? No.

For all of you who are interested in medicine and are planning to apply to the Caribbean schools, GOOD FOR YOU! It is your dream, don't let anyone crush it. There is so much NEGATIVITY in this medical forum. I have been a member for 1 day and I already regret it. This is just like when everyone told me I couldn't get into Berkeley and I did. Now everyone is telling me I'm going to not get any residencies and I'm going to.

I want to do general surgery and just watch me do it. Someday I'll be practicing and living a happy life as an MD and that is good enough. So haters please stop hating just b/c someone's path is different than yours.

If anyone else would like to express their frustration and annoyance at this issue, please vent away and hope to see you Jan 2010!

p.s. if you go to SGU you WILL get residency in California, I am surrounded by tons of SGU residents. You WILL get a job in California, I am surrounded by just as many SGU doctors as anywhere else.

Good luck to all and stop hating!

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[ChemEng]

Amen to that

 

[schandan13]

I remember somebody replying to my post when I wrote the same thing down...how people keep bashing you left right centre for going to SGU. He/She said "People on these forums are some of the most negative, arrogant, rude and overall picky that you will come across. I wouldn't bother too much if I were you."....

People don't realize that sometimes others DO use their own god damn brain before deciding something.

Are you headed to SGU for Jan 10? I'll see you on the rock then ! Good luck !

 

[Instatewaiter]

A) Well first of all I'm NOT stupid. I got my undergrad at Berkeley with a gpa of 3.9 in Molecular Cell Biology. I don't think that is stupid at all.

B) I want to go to SGU b/c:

1. I have been working with numerous doctors, med students, and residents who have gone and all LOVE it. They are all fine doing what they are doing and no they are not all doing family medicine.

2. The average temp is 75...beach front...what a nice place to get away from the stress of being in the U.S.

C)I don't understand. I wanted to go b/c i enjoy working with international students, I love to travel, and I love to explore the outside world.

D)Doctors are really starting to piss me off. So you are in it for the money? There is nothing wrong with family practice...you are a doctor, you help people, you have a comfortable life, just be happy.

E)I want to do general surgery and just watch me do it. Someday I'll be practicing and living a happy life as an MD and that is good enough. So haters please stop hating just b/c someone's path is different than yours.

Well I'm glad you have made up your mind.

A few points though

A) Sounds like someone is trying to justify not getting into a US school.

B) The training, classes, rotations, attrition rates, board pass rates, match rates, match stats are all worse than a US schools. If your end goal is being a doctor why go outside the US where you will have a harder time getting the residency you want?

Training, classes and rotations: often times you have to set these up yourself, you are thrown to the wind, don't have the same kind of support you do in US school and are at secondary sites with inadequate patient populations. The support is probably the biggest issue. Just being in the US for rotations is not the same as having quality rotations.

Attrition rates: while it depends on the school, you yourself have said that SGU has an attrition rate close to 30%. If you have a 1 in 3 chance of not finishing, why would you want to go there?

Board pass rates and scores: self explanatory

Match rates and stats- as quoted by others on this forum SGU has only 85% get a residency (match/prematch/scramble). That is a scary stat. You also see only a fraction getting competitive residencies compared to their US counterparts. While I know you have said that this doesnt matter to you, it is a marker for how competitive SGU grads are when compared to their US counterparts. In other words, you will have a harder time getting the residency you want. While IM for instance is overall not very competitive these days, the good locations (like all of california) are very, very difficult to get. The stats needed for a carribean grad to get into these programs is higher than those needed for a US grad. Again, if you are the same person, with the same capabilities, why would you want to pigeon hole yourself?

C) You will realize that living in the carribean and traveling to the carribean are not the same thing.

D) I encourage you to do the math of how much it will cost to pay back the loans from SGU before you act like doctors just want money. Tuition alone is $200,000. Cost of living will add at a minimum $60K over 4 years. That is 260K of debt. Actually I will do the math for you:

Here's a little wake up call from financial aid calculator:
" Loan Balance: $260,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 6.80%
Loan Term: 30 years

Monthly Loan Payment: $1,695.01
Number of Payments: 360

Cumulative Payments: $610,198.31
Total Interest Paid: $350,198.31

Note: The monthly loan payment was calculated at 359 payments of $1,695.01 plus a final payment of $1,689.72.

It is estimated that you will need an annual salary of at least $203,401.20 to be able to afford to repay this loan. This estimate assumes that 10% of your gross monthly income If you use 15% of your gross monthly income, you will need an annual salary of only $135,600.80, but you may experience some financial difficulty."

E) I will reiterate- Getting a residency in California is a challenge. While it is unquestionably possible coming from SGU, why would you want to decrease your chances? It just doesn't make sense. I get that you don't care about status. That is noble. But if it decreases the chances of you getting to be where you want to be, what is the point?

 

[JonathanMD]

2. The average temp is 75...beach front...what a nice place to get away from the stress of being in the U.S.

I think you're crazy.

Just to add to Instatewaiter,

Is your dream to become a physician? Or is it to go to school with a beach front?

Yes, I'm being cynical.

My point is you should do whatever is in your power to maximize your chances of matching into the residency that you want. Everything else is a distant second. Going to the Caribbean with a 3.9 GPA isn't accomplishing this primary task.

You obviously are very studious and are passionate about medicine. Why would you intentionally handicap yourself?

No one should be going to the Caribbean if they don't have to. I am. I have to and I have my reasons.


edit: It has nothing to do with being stupid or not stupid. I think Caribbean students have the potential to become excellent doctors. If I didn't believe this, I would quit now. I'm talking about maximizing chances and reaching The Goal.

 

[Alwaysbehopeful]

Don't worry about it so much, to each is own!

ACMC Oakland, CA IM residents for the past 4 years - ALL FMG! I think there was one guy from a U.S. school. A lot of north California and So Cal are super diverse and they actually like to have FMG b/c it better serves their patients.

Maybe its not the most COMPETITIVE residency but they also get to train in UCSF and surrounding hospitals which are all pretty awesome (i.e. John Muir, CHO).

Of course a school like SGU would have 30% dropout rate. Their passing rate is so high and their classes are extremely fast pace and competitive. It is their way of weeding out the weak. If you are already a good student then don't' worry you won't fail out. A lot of the students that fail out might be from less than awesome universities who are not used to the pace.

Sure you might not place in an ultra high competitive residency but I just spoke with a SGU resident in ACMC. She said that honestly, a lot of places don't even view SGU as a foreign medical school. All of her friends have placed in California and many have place in competitive specialties, even ENT!

Situations change and you just never know. The reputation of SGU is on the rise. My friend from SGU just place in UCLA. She said it wasn't that difficult at all, not like what people say it is.

Ross, SABA, AUC all barely have anyone in CA = they are worse schools by FAR! I know people with 2.9 and 22 on MCATs that get in....it seems like everyone and their mama can get in. I wouldn't even bother applying.

San Joaquin General Hospital receive at least 2 General surgery residents from SGU every year. Their passing rate on the Surgery boards is 100% for the last 5 years. Since SGU is producing better and better quality students due to their difficult curriculum, more and more places are getting to know the SGU residents and accepting them.

No you might never equate a medical student from Stanford but it doesn't mean you can't end up in the same place. Research for yourself! Many of these people complaining here is b/c 1. They didn't do well themselves in medical school 2. probably didn't score very high on their broads 3. can't find residency due the previous 2. This doesn't mean it could be you. Stay positive and keep going!

I am in the same situation you are, I am applying to SGU this year b/c I think I might be too late for the U.S. schools. However, I have been talking to multiple SGU graduates, doctors, etcs. None of them have said anything but how great their experiences were. None of them had a hard time applying for residency. Sure maybe one 85% get residencies but honestly you don't know how the other 15% are. They could be struggling with really low scores. So far I haven't met anyone who did well at SGU, did well on their USMLE and still didn't find residency...that is unheard of at this point. And those people you don't know their personalities...they could be boring people with bad personalities.

SDN is NOT an accurate sample of pre-meds and medical students. I suggest you find out for yourself. Go ask some graduates and see what they say. I think the only bias I have is that my family is more well off. My parents already have my medical school tuition ready so I don't have to take a loan. But it is true that it can be expensive so you might not be able to afford the luxurious life that you hope for. But if you want to pursue it not for money then it will satisfy your life.

 

[Instatewaiter]

ACMC Oakland, CA IM residents for the past 4 years - ALL FMG! I think there was one guy from a U.S. school. A lot of north California and So Cal are super diverse and they actually like to have FMG b/c it better serves their patients.

What do you think that it says about the quality of the program if they cannot attract any US student- in 4 years- especially in California?

And the numbers don't lie.

ACMC ranks in the lowest 6% of internal medicine programs nationally based on IM board pass rates. There are only 25 programs (out of 400) that scored worse than they did.

Of course a school like SGU would have 30% dropout rate. Their passing rate is so high and their classes are extremely fast pace and competitive. It is their way of weeding out the weak. If you are already a good student then don't' worry you won't fail out. A lot of the students that fail out might be from less than awesome universities who are not used to the pace.

I am sure every one of those students felt like they were good enough to pass. I doubt a single one thought they would be the one to fail. You just dont travel and drop tens of thousands of dollars if you think you are going to fail. Nonetheless, 30% did fail and did lose all that money.

Research for yourself! Many of these people complaining here is b/c 1. They didn't do well themselves in medical school 2. probably didn't score very high on their broads 3. can't find residency due the previous 2. This doesn't mean it could be you. Stay positive and keep going!

I think this is directed at me, so I will respond:
Not only am I a current 4th year med student but I am near the top of my medical school class.
I also scored in the 90th percentile on the boards.
I am applying only to the top tier programs of the specialty I want.

I came out of college with a terrible GPA but did post-baccalaureate work to get myself into a US school. After going through the extra time and through medical school I can say that it was worth it to spend that time trying to get into a US school. I can assure you that I would not have the same opportunities outside of the US as I do here.

Sure maybe one 85% get residencies but honestly you don't know how the other 15% are. They could be struggling with really low scores. So far I haven't met anyone who did well at SGU, did well on their USMLE and still didn't find residency...that is unheard of at this point. And those people you don't know their personalities...they could be boring people with bad personalities.

You do know that they passed the boards. In any US school they would get placed somewhere. Doing the math, of those who start at SGU, only 59% match (30% attrition then 15% non-match).

At my school, until this year, we had NEVER had a single person not match or scramble successfully. EVER. This year the 1 guy out of 170 (0.5% non-match rate) didnt match because he hadnt finished his rotations or taken step 2 yet. He also only wanted Rads in a 2 state area and wouldnt accept anything else in the scramble. He's finishing up his rotations and step 2 now. He'll match next year no doubt.

 

[Alwaysbehopeful]

Calm down man, why are you taking it so personally. No ones gives a crap what you are. I'm just trying to let that person know that it isn't IMPOSSIBLE to succeed. Not everyone wants to go do a post-bac. I know I don't. My grades aren't bad enough actually to get into any pos-bac.

30% dropout rate doesn't scare me, my university due to its competitiveness has a 25% drop out rate. So what? Man get over yourself. So what if ACMC has a low ranking, it doesn't mean those people won't be doctors in the end.

I'm just trying to say that not everyone can walk down your path. Not everyone is able to. Why is everyone so insecure on this website? Always trying to compare themselves with each other. Forget it, I'm going to focus on something else, rather than wasting my time doing this.

 

[RussianJoo]

SGU is a good option. but none of those SGU grads that you spoke to were accepted into a US school and picked SGU over it. You'd have to be really dense to do that. Also you have to know that matching was a lot easier a few years ago and is getting harder every year. in the mid 90's about 50% of anesthesia residencies went unfilled, meaning anyone could get into anesthesia, now it's getting very hard. Many doctors that I have spoken to at the hospital said that when they picked a residency the just picked what they wanted to do, no one was concerned with grades or board scores, because all residencies were pretty much wide open, and plenty of them said that they wouldn't have gotten a residency in their specialty if they were applying now.

Residencies are much harder to get into, and will become almost impossible to get into in the near future, why? because every year there are more and more US grads graduating and applying for residencies, US med school classes are expanding as per an order from the government, new med schools are opening up and new DO schools are opening up, however the number of residencies isn't increasing at the same rate, and since residencies are funded by medicare, the financial problem that medicare faces will mean that most likely there won't be a huge increase in residency numbers for a very long time, what does this mean? it will get to the point where there are equal number of US grads and residencies, so far IMGs have been taking residencies that have been left unfilled, once there are no leftovers IMGs will not be matching. Very few PDs will pick an IMG over a US grad, no matter how much higher the IMGs board scores are. The reputation of a residency program is based on a couple of things some of them are the number of US grads that match in your residency program, if your residency program fills 100% in the match, and what your board 1st time pass rate is. So there's incentive for residencies to not match IMGs if they can. Also SGU has maybe 3 or 4 people in it's 30+ year history that matched into ENT same with other ultra competitive specialties like Derm and Urology. While all US med schools have a handful of their grads match into those specialties every year.

Also you don't know how smart and how well those grads did in med school. You say that everyone you spoke to did very well, do you really think SGU will give you phone numbers of people that didn't do well and weren't happy with where they matched? Come on that's just bad for business, and SGU is a business, they want to make a profit. Also when you compare the medical school GPA's and Board scores of SGU students and their US counterparts you'll see that the same student (i.e. the same grades and board scores) from a US school will either 1) match into a much better specialty or 2) will match into a much better university program and that's a fact. If you look at SGU's match list you'll see that most matches are at Community hospital programs, not university programs like most US med school matches are.

So sure SGU is a good alternative right now but no one will know what will happen in 4 years when it's time for you to apply for residency. Every attending I spoke with predicts further increases in US med school class sizes to fill the doctor shortage but don't see how medicare can afford to increase residency numbers. They all say going to a carib school is not a good idea right now, and that i am lucky that i am graduating before it gets impossible to match. You should do everything you can to get into a US school first be it MD or DO and then after multiple attempts and failures apply to a carib school.

Oh and I know more then a dozen people who graduated last year, had GPA's above 3.0 in med school and average to above average Board scores and didn't match into the specialty they wanted to match into and will be reapplying again this year. It's getting very competitive, even matching into primary care isn't a guarantee anymore. And many fellow classmates feel that the 2008 SGU match list was much better than the 2009 one. So choose wisely. I personally would recommend DO schools over SGU, simply based on the fact that you won't be considered a foriegn grad, even though no one will discriminate against you once you're a licensed physician or a resident, it's much harder to get a residency as a foreign grad then it is a US grad no matter if you're a DO or MD.

 

[ensuii]

I got my undergrad at Berkeley with a gpa of 3.9 in Molecular Cell Biology.

This is the root of all your problems...Also, getting that GPA in that field is nowhere near as impressive as you probably think it is.

For those of you that don't know, berkeley has a large undergraduate population (25k) of which nearly half are hardcore fobby gunner azns. I present this as reference: [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t67jwjux0Ao[/YOUTUBE]

There's nothing you can do honestly, I'm going to a pretty decent allo school and catch flak all the time. Keep in mind that of everyone that calls themself a premed on the first day of class, less than 30% will end up even applying.

 

[Rippey]

OP is clearly trolling

nobody goes to the caribbean when they have the numbers to get into a US school.

He's either trolling or the biggest f'uc'king idiot in the world

 

[Aphtalyfe]

Of course a school like SGU would have 30% dropout rate. Their passing rate is so high and their classes are extremely fast pace and competitive. It is their way of weeding out the weak. If you are already a good student then don't' worry you won't fail out. A lot of the students that fail out might be from less than awesome universities who are not used to the pace.

Ross, SABA, AUC all barely have anyone in CA = they are worse schools by FAR! I know people with 2.9 and 22 on MCATs that get in....it seems like everyone and their mama can get in. I wouldn't even bother applying.

AUC had 11 people (quick count from the aucmed website) match in CA in 2009 out of 200? ...lets keep in mind that not everyone wants to go to cali... Just because a school doesn't have as many matches in cali makes them a worse school?? Interesting concept.

AUC doesn't even have a 30% dropout, and our USMLE Step 1 pass rates are on par with SGU. Our island is also much more fun than the other 3...

I doubt anyone in my semester had a 2.9 and 22 on their MCAT.

Why don't you get off your high horse and realize that the only advantage SGU has is more clinical spots. Their matches are no better than AUC considering the fact that AUC has less than 1/2 the number of graduates per year that SGU does.

Yes I go to AUC, and Yes I take offense to your post... especially since you aren't even in medical school yet.

 

[schandan13]

There really isn't much difference within the big 4 of the caribbean. SABA is just marginally less heard of since they don't graduate roughly 700 students a year. Someone I spoke to recently said that SABA isn't as "glamorous" as SGU ! IMO, that isn't quite a USP. How much "fun" any of the islands are is a very personal perspective though. To draw a comparison within the big 4/3 is invalid, and a waste of time.

 

[Duon89]

D) I encourage you to do the math of how much it will cost to pay back the loans from SGU before you act like doctors just want money. Tuition alone is $200,000. Cost of living will add at a minimum $60K over 4 years. That is 260K of debt. Actually I will do the math for you:

Here's a little wake up call from financial aid calculator:
" Loan Balance: $260,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 6.80%
Loan Term: 30 years

Monthly Loan Payment: $1,695.01
Number of Payments: 360

wow...that's pretty cheap...
cheaper than Baylor's.....wow...impressive...
Doesnt the most of the medical schools in US have a tuition of 45,000?
(out of state..)

SGU is good choice financial wise then...wow good info...^^

What is the FUSS about the fast PACE in Caribbean MD?
I know all US MD is fast as hell~~~(like HELL HELL)~~learning one semester work in 8 weeks...
(this I have talke with medical students who were in first and second year, a school ranking in early 30s in US news medical school ranking)

Instead of writing about the drop out percentage~..
Why dont you guys write something like....

Please Take more Biology courses such as pathology, immunology, anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, etc..
before going into the caribbean MD? sort of to help them out~~!!!
So that this forum can at least decrease the rate some how...even to 20%!!!!

You guys are messed up man....lol^^
Gotta help each otha Fellas lol

 

[ChemEng]

A lot of people are talking like they have been there and done that. I don't think one SGU student or graduate has spoken in defense. Can we at least talk objectively here?

 

[schandan13]

A lot of people are talking like they have been there and done that. I don't think one SGU student or graduate has spoken in defense. Can we at least talk objectively here?

That's true. Many of the "been there done that" clan don't really back the idea of going to SGU/Ross/AUC. All suggest that it should be the absolute last option. Those words of caution are definitely justified, better safe than sorry. But sometimes it would be nice to hear some words of inspiration and not always "your life from hereon will suck like hell"...

 

[RussianJoo]

A lot of people are talking like they have been there and done that. I don't think one SGU student or graduate has spoken in defense. Can we at least talk objectively here?

I am an SGU student. what would you like me to defend?

 

[RussianJoo]

That's true. Many of the "been there done that" clan don't really back the idea of going to SGU/Ross/AUC. All suggest that it should be the absolute last option. Those words of caution are definitely justified, better safe than sorry. But sometimes it would be nice to hear some words of inspiration and not always "your life from hereon will suck like hell"...

I hate to break it to you but you don't have to go to SGU for your life to "suck like hell". all medical students lives suck, even most of premeds lives suck when compared to many other students. there's just way too much to learn or read or memorize. no matter what med school you go to be ready to work harder then you've ever worked before.

 

[schandan13]

I am aware of that. Actually I wasn't referring to new students having a tough time academically. (Don't assume I think of med school to be a joke). It'll be tougher than one can imagine. I meant it with respect to opportunities (or the lack of) and future in general. I'm sure you think that is doomed too...

 

[Instatewaiter]

wow...that's pretty cheap...
cheaper than Baylor's.....wow...impressive...
Doesnt the most of the medical schools in US have a tuition of 45,000?
(out of state..)

Baylor's tuition is 118,444 over 4 years for a non-texas resident. It is $66044 for texas residents (per their website). Respectively, that is ~$80,000 and $135,000 less in tuition alone than SGU.

 

[Top Gun]

I am sooooo sick of U.S. premeds...they are so annoying. All they do is constantly compete and compare who is better...who gives a crap? I came on this forum in hopes of getting some inspiration, motivation, help, and support. Instead all I have been hearing is "oh you must be stupid b/c you want to go to SGU" Well first of all I'm NOT stupid. I got my undergrad at Berkeley with a gpa of 3.9 in Molecular Cell Biology. I don't think that is stupid at all. I want to go to SGU b/c:

1. I have been working with numerous doctors, med students, and residents who have gone and all LOVE it. They are all fine doing what they are doing and no they are not all doing family medicine.

2. The average temp is 75...beach front...what a nice place to get away from the stress of being in the U.S.

I don't understand. I wanted to go b/c i enjoy working with international students, I love to travel, and I love to explore the outside world. I want to be a doctor b/c I love people. Yet all i hear is, oh so you want to do Family medicine then, as if that could be a bad thing? Doctors are really starting to piss me off. So you are in it for the money? There is nothing wrong with family practice...you are a doctor, you help people, you have a comfortable life, just be happy.

The one thing I hate the most about all these doctors is the power trip. Get over yourself...the world doesn't revolve around you. So you got into Johns Hopkins, good for you. Not everyone wants to go there. I don't. I don't think it is b/c I can't get in, I just don't like the atmosphere. Even if I can't get in, who gives a crap? Does that affect you in anyway? No.

For all of you who are interested in medicine and are planning to apply to the Caribbean schools, GOOD FOR YOU! It is your dream, don't let anyone crush it. There is so much NEGATIVITY in this medical forum. I have been a member for 1 day and I already regret it. This is just like when everyone told me I couldn't get into Berkeley and I did. Now everyone is telling me I'm going to not get any residencies and I'm going to.

I want to do general surgery and just watch me do it. Someday I'll be practicing and living a happy life as an MD and that is good enough. So haters please stop hating just b/c someone's path is different than yours.

If anyone else would like to express their frustration and annoyance at this issue, please vent away and hope to see you Jan 2010!

p.s. if you go to SGU you WILL get residency in California, I am surrounded by tons of SGU residents. You WILL get a job in California, I am surrounded by just as many SGU doctors as anywhere else.

Good luck to all and stop hating!

Let me preface this by saying that I graduated from SGU and had a good experience. That said, I would have never picked SGU over a US school if I had your stats. In fact, I applied twice to US schools before considering SGU. Its not because SGU was not a good school. Far from it. In my opinion, they gave us a very good education. The reason is because as an IMG, your chances of matching into a US residency program are considerably less than those of an AMG. Most residency programs will take an AMG over an IMG any day of the week. If an AMG and IMG have identical USMLE scores, the residency program will pick the AMG every time. This means that as an IMG, you have to do better than an AMG. So, if you have the grades and MCAT scores to get into a US school, why make things harder for yourself by going to the Caribbean?

And another thing, you want to go to a school because the weather is so great and it has a nice beach? That's the last reason to pick a med school. You should be selecting a school based on factors like its match rate and the quality of the curriculum. Besides, at SGU, if you're serious about your studies, your time for hanging out at the beach will be very limited, I promise you.

 

[womp]

I am sooooo sick of U.S. premeds...they are so annoying. All they do is constantly compete and compare who is better...who gives a crap? I came on this forum in hopes of getting some inspiration, motivation, help, and support. Instead all I have been hearing is "oh you must be stupid b/c you want to go to SGU" Well first of all I'm NOT stupid. I got my undergrad at Berkeley with a gpa of 3.9 in Molecular Cell Biology. I don't think that is stupid at all. I want to go to SGU b/c:

-snip-

I want to do general surgery and just watch me do it. Someday I'll be practicing and living a happy life as an MD and that is good enough. So haters please stop hating just b/c someone's path is different than yours.

Dude, just retake the MCAT and get it over with. Less than 2% match into categorical general surgery from SGU.

 

[Ariee]

Let me preface this by saying that I graduated from SGU and had a good experience. That said, I would have never picked SGU over a US school if I had your stats. In fact, I applied twice to US schools before considering SGU. Its not because SGU was not a good school. Far from it. In my opinion, they gave us a very good education. The reason is because as an IMG, your chances of matching into a US residency program are considerably less than those of an AMG. Most residency programs will take an AMG over an IMG any day of the week. If an AMG and IMG have identical USMLE scores, the residency program will pick the AMG every time. This means that as an IMG, you have to do better than an AMG. So, if you have the grades and MCAT scores to get into a US school, why make things harder for yourself by going to the Caribbean?

And another thing, you want to go to a school because the weather is so great and it has a nice beach? That's the last reason to pick a med school. You should be selecting a school based on factors like its match rate and the quality of the curriculum. Besides, at SGU, if you're serious about your studies, your time for hanging out at the beach will be very limited, I promise you.

Very well said. I was about to post the same thing, but this individual has summed it up very well.

womp-stop trolling, you sound like a tool...

 

[womp]

Very well said. I was about to post the same thing, but this individual has summed it up very well.

womp-stop trolling, you sound like a tool...

You can post personal attacks all you want, but if the OP wants to do general surgery, he is best advised to retake the MCAT (with his GPA) and apply to US schools. The match list from SGU may list a lot of "Surgery" spots, but the vast majority of them are for prelim spots. The OP can do a search on what a prelim surgery spot is like.

By the way, genius, the person you quoted wrote essentially what I stated (to reapply with higher MCATs and match better).

 

[Ariee]

MCAT needs to be retaken, as we've all said.

Let's get back on topic.

OP? What is the reason as to why you are not re-taking the MCAT?

 

[NRAI2001]

I go to sgu and I m in my last semester on the island.. I feel like i made a good decision going to SGU bc even though my stats were decent (3.4 gpa, masters degree, and 31 mcat) I didnt want to reapply (applied before my masters) and I had close friends going to sgu as well.

I am fairly satisfied with SGU..it ll basically get me what I want (anesthesia or IM residency with fellowships afterwards) but things here arent easy. Its a third world country and the school is so massive that it hardly cares about the individual opinions of any one student. Also from everyone that I ve spoken to that is qualified to comment on it residencies are slightly biased against carribean students; with good board scores and hardwork during rotations you can definitely do well for yourself...especially if you re willing to move to different parts of the country or do research years.

I went to Berkeley for undergrad and it was very difficult; if you can get a 3.9 from berkeley then you should definitely apply to US schools. The truth of the matter is SGU is a great SECOND OPTION.... you wont be held out of any fields parsay but you will have more difficulty matching into any given program. You will have to have board scores above what their averages are...which is to say its not impossible but you just have to work harder than the guy next to you.

Someone mentioned only 3-4 ENTs in the past 30 years and thats total BS... there are consitently 3-5 ENTs and 3-5 Opthos and 2-4 Orthos every year from SGU as well as 2-3 derms...not to mention 20+ Radiologies and 30+ anesthesiologies and numerous numerous ERs and IMs at good university programs.

 

[RussianJoo]

I go to sgu and I m in my last semester on the island.. I feel like i made a good decision going to SGU bc even though my stats were decent (3.4 gpa, masters degree, and 31 mcat) I didnt want to reapply (applied before my masters) and I had close friends going to sgu as well.

I am fairly satisfied with SGU..it ll basically get me what I want (anesthesia or IM residency with fellowships afterwards) but things here arent easy. Its a third world country and the school is so massive that it hardly cares about the individual opinions of any one student. Also from everyone that I ve spoken to that is qualified to comment on it residencies are slightly biased against carribean students; with good board scores and hardwork during rotations you can definitely do well for yourself...especially if you re willing to move to different parts of the country or do research years.

I went to Berkeley for undergrad and it was very difficult; if you can get a 3.9 from berkeley then you should definitely apply to US schools. The truth of the matter is SGU is a great SECOND OPTION.... you wont be held out of any fields parsay but you will have more difficulty matching into any given program. You will have to have board scores above what their averages are...which is to say its not impossible but you just have to work harder than the guy next to you.

Someone mentioned only 3-4 ENTs in the past 30 years and thats total BS... there are consitently 3-5 ENTs and 3-5 Opthos and 2-4 Orthos every year from SGU as well as 2-3 derms...not to mention 20+ Radiologies and 30+ anesthesiologies and numerous numerous ERs and IMs at good university programs.

really? i am an SGU student as well in my 4th year, and I don't remember seeing a Derm matche in the last 3 or 4 years. in fact if you look at the match list posted by SGU, there were only like 8 or so Rads matches this year and only 20 or so anesthesia matches. this past year was good for EM but EM is easier to get than Anesthesia which isn't that hard to get for US grads either and aren't considered competitive residencies by US grads . I think you need to look at the SGU match lists again. there was also 1 or 2 Ortho matches this year (and i think those were in canada and england). you're totally over stating the facts.

there's a power point presentation that's on the career guidance website once you log into the sgu home page and it has average step scores and gpa's for people matching into different residencies from 2004 to 2008. it lists the fallowing.. these stats are for the last 4 years, Anesthesia: 115 matches, ave. step1 : 220 step2: slightly above 220, GPA: 3.5, Rads: 34 matches, ave. step1: above 230, step2: around 230, GPA: 3.7; EM: 129 matches, Step1:220 Step2: above 220 GPA: above 3.5; opthomology: 5 matches, Step1: above 230 Step2: below 220 GPA: above 3.5 ; Ortho: 7matches, Step1: above 230 Step2: above 230 GPA: above 3.5 ; ENT: 1 match, step1: above 250, step2: above 250, GPA: 4.0 There were no Derm matches from 2004 to 2009!

So there you have it, this is straight from the school, so i don't see why they would lie and lower the number of people matching when it would make the school look better if more people matched into these competitive residencies? you're in for a shocker of a surprise in the next year or 2 if you think that so many people are matching into competitive residencies out of SGU.

 

[NRAI2001]

really? i am an SGU student as well in my 4th year, and I don't remember seeing a Derm matche in the last 3 or 4 years. in fact if you look at the match list posted by SGU, there were only like 8 or so Rads matches this year and only 20 or so anesthesia matches. this past year was good for EM but EM is easier to get than Anesthesia which isn't that hard to get for US grads either and aren't considered competitive residencies by US grads . I think you need to look at the SGU match lists again. there was also 1 or 2 Ortho matches this year (and i think those were in canada and england). you're totally over stating the facts.

there's a power point presentation that's on the career guidance website once you log into the sgu home page and it has average step scores and gpa's for people matching into different residencies from 2004 to 2008. it lists the fallowing.. these stats are for the last 4 years, Anesthesia: 115 matches, ave. step1 : 220 step2: slightly above 220, GPA: 3.5, Rads: 34 matches, ave. step1: above 230, step2: around 230, GPA: 3.7; EM: 129 matches, Step1:220 Step2: above 220 GPA: above 3.5; opthomology: 5 matches, Step1: above 230 Step2: below 220 GPA: above 3.5 ; Ortho: 7matches, Step1: above 230 Step2: above 230 GPA: above 3.5 ; ENT: 1 match, step1: above 250, step2: above 250, GPA: 4.0 There were no Derm matches from 2004 to 2009!

So there you have it, this is straight from the school, so i don't see why they would lie and lower the number of people matching when it would make the school look better if more people matched into these competitive residencies? you're in for a shocker of a surprise in the next year or 2 if you think that so many people are matching into competitive residencies out of SGU.

https://baysgu35.sgu.edu/ERD/2009/ResidPost.nsf/BYPGY?OpenView&RestrictToCategory=PGY2&Count=-1

Sort the list by PGY2 and Specialty (click the arrow at the top of the lists for these)..

For 2008 there are:

Anesth: 22
Rads: 11
Ortho: 3
Optho: 1
Urology: 2
Rad Onc: 2

But point is that you will definitely have a more difficult time matching into any given residency as compared to a US student...BUT 98% of people wouldnt match into derm even if they went to a US school OR WOULD WANT TO...premed perspective changes.

 

[RussianJoo]

https://baysgu35.sgu.edu/ERD/2009/ResidPost.nsf/BYPGY?OpenView&RestrictToCategory=PGY2&Count=-1

Sort the list by PGY2 and Specialty (click the arrow at the top of the lists for these)..

For 2008 there are:

Anesth: 22
Rads: 11
Ortho: 3
Optho: 1
Urology: 2
Rad Onc: 2

But point is that you will definitely have a more difficult time matching into any given residency as compared to a US student...BUT 98% of people wouldnt match into derm even if they went to a US school OR WOULD WANT TO...premed perspective changes.

you're correct about the fact that Derm, Rads, Optho, Ortho, Urology, and Rad Onc are extremely competitive even for top not US grads. And thus it becomes almost impossible to match into it as an IMG. Sure some do it, but you don't know anything about those people, their father could have been the head of Urology at a local hospital or they could have a Phd in something related to urology and were just too old to get into a US school (US schools don't like to accept people that are too old). Although impressive you can't be applying to SGU thinking that you'll be that dude that gets urology or whatever this year, it's just not realistic and you'll have your heart broken. be smart and have a back up plan.

 

[Ariee]

RJ, NR,

You two are giving great advice. Thanks for being on here and keeping it real.

Great job you two, we're all on the same team at the end of the day. We all treat a patient and have an impt role in the medical world...

Thanks,
A

 

[NRAI2001]

you're correct about the fact that Derm, Rads, Optho, Ortho, Urology, and Rad Onc are extremely competitive even for top not US grads. And thus it becomes almost impossible to match into it as an IMG. Sure some do it, but you don't know anything about those people, their father could have been the head of Urology at a local hospital or they could have a Phd in something related to urology and were just too old to get into a US school (US schools don't like to accept people that are too old). Although impressive you can't be applying to SGU thinking that you'll be that dude that gets urology or whatever this year, it's just not realistic and you'll have your heart broken. be smart and have a back up plan.

Ya you are absolutely correct...the ultra competitive residencies (derm, plastics, ortho, rad onc, urology, ent, optho) will be very difficult even for a top SGU student...but the medium (above average) residencies ( anesthesia, radiology, general surgery, IM at a good universty, EM) are doable with good board scores and rotation performance......not to forget that cardiology, GI, pulm, nephrology are some of the highest paying specialties right now and will only grow with the growing geriatric population & those are done after the completion of an IM residency.

 

[RussianJoo]

Ya you are absolutely correct...the ultra competitive residencies (derm, plastics, ortho, rad onc, urology, ent, optho) will be very difficult even for a top SGU student...but the medium (above average) residencies ( anesthesia, radiology, general surgery, IM at a good universty, EM) are doable with good board scores and rotation performance......not to forget that cardiology, GI, pulm, nephrology are some of the highest paying specialties right now and will only grow with the growing geriatric population & those are done after the completion of an IM residency.

yeah they're doable but still less then 10% of the class or even 5% of the class end up in those specialties. right now you can find programs in the very difficult specialties that love SGU grads, are located in very undesirable locations and offer audition rotations to SGU students, thus those top notch students from SGU many times end up at those places that a US grad wouldn't even consider or would consider if their stats were far bellow the average for that specialty. Those ultra competitve specialties many times require extensive research experience and a lot of times don't offer or allow SGU students to do audition electives at their programs, thus making it almost impossible for an SGU grad to match in that specialty. (there's almost no research experience at SGU and at all other carib schools, because they do their rotations at community hospitals not university hospitals, and at community hospitals attendings are more concerned with money then research, this is just my observation).

As for doing a fellowship after IM, it's very easy to get into IM but not easy to get into an IM fellowship after. fellowships like GI and Cards are the hardest fellowships to get, majority of people that get those fellowships have gone to residencies that offered the fellowships, and most places that offer the fellowships are university programs and if you look at the SGU match list majority of people still match at community hospitals, (just because the residency has a title of some university most of the time doesn't mean that it's at a university hospital it could just be an affiliated community hospital.) Case in point, my buddy matched into IM at Elmhurst Hospital in NYC, his residency program is listed as Mount Sinai School of Medicine program, however, that's very miss leading because Elmhurst is a community hospital that's only loosely affiliated with Mount Sinai and not a university hospital, so those that know the hospital know that it's not that impressive of a match, but med students look at it and say wow he matched at Mount Sinai.

Also this is all what's happening now, what will happen in 4 or 5 years when those applying to med schools now will be applying for residencies? in 2011 there are something like 3 more US MD schools that will open up and many more DO schools and the class sizes are increasing every year (the goal is to increase all med schools class size by 30% ) yet the number of residencies is staying more or less the same, so what's going to happen when the number of US grads matches the number of residencies? basically SGU students and other IMGs/FMGs will be out of luck. lots of stuff to consider.

 

[Taurus]

Also this is all what's happening now, what will happen in 4 or 5 years when those applying to med schools now will be applying for residencies? in 2011 there are something like 3 more US MD schools that will open up and many more DO schools and the class sizes are increasing every year (the goal is to increase all med schools class size by 30% ) yet the number of residencies is staying more or less the same, so what's going to happen when the number of US grads matches the number of residencies? basically SGU students and other IMGs/FMGs will be out of luck. lots of stuff to consider.

With health care reform, I believe that there will be a 15% expansion of residency spots -- for primary care ones though. I agree that it will be more and more difficult to get a non-primary care spot in future years because there will be more US grads to compete with.

 

[Taurus]

To the OP:

I like to travel and meet people too. But if you don't understand the distinction between that kind of traveling and going offshore to go to med school, then you need to do some more basic research into the whole med school-residency-fellowship process before spending 4 years of your life and $$$.

 

[Ariee]

I seriously hope that med-schools in the US & CDN open up med-schools seats that will match the no. of residency positions. This would make the MOST sense and would decrease/shut-down all the Carib schools. I'm an IMG too and I'm not hating on myself. I'm blessed to have gotten thus far. But seriously all the crap I've gone through wouldn't have existed if there'd possibly been more seats, although I've come out stronger and learned a great deal about myself/system.

Hahaa, I'd also like to see the CEO of my school go bankrupt!

Can someone explain to me why the no. of seats in the US/CDN med-schools doesn't match the no. of residency positions? Out-sourcing is cheaper?

 

[Top Gun]

2. The average temp is 75...beach front...what a nice place to get away from the stress of being in the U.S.

Oh, off-topic, but the OP has demonstrated an example of a pet peeve of mine. I always hated when my parents' stupid friends said stuff like, "Oh, you're going to med school in the Caribbean? Must be nice hanging out on the beach all day!" Yeah, like hell I was. Most of the time, I was either in lecture, lab, the library, or in my dorm room/apartment studying. I had very little time to go to the beach.

 

[BrainBuff]

Wow, a thread devoted to bash US pre meds....Someone is bitter...

 

[BrainBuff]

Can someone explain to me why the no. of seats in the US/CDN med-schools doesn't match the no. of residency positions? Out-sourcing is cheaper?

Number of residency positions have nothing to do with the number of med students from a specific medical school. The residency positions depend on the specific needs of med school affiliated hospitals or other free standing hospitals. The main issue here is the financial constraints that the hospitals may have since they are the ones that pay the resident salaries.

In the late 80s early 90s there was a push to reduce the size of medical school classes at the recommendation of the AMA. The same happened with some residency programs. The trend now is the opposite because of the projected deficit in future doctors.

However, this will only make some residency programs more competitive (like ortho, plastics, derm, ER, radiology) because those numbers will not increase. The medical schools are being created to increase the number of Family doctors. Therefore, it is not unreasonable to expect LESS carib trained doctors getting into the most competitive specialties.

 

[Ariee]

Hi,
Thanks for responding. Few more questions. I'm kinda not following...

Number of residency positions have nothing to do with the number of med students from a specific medical school. The residency positions depend on the specific needs of med school affiliated hospitals or other free standing hospitals. The main issue here is the financial constraints that the hospitals may have since they are the ones that pay the resident salaries.

The 2nd sentence, does this mean that the no. of residency positions correlates to the shortage in that region which the med-school is affiliated? If so, then whey aren't the med-school seats increasing at a rate proportional to the residency positions? I don't get it.

Also, the 3rd sentence really confuses me as well, b/c I thought that the hospital received $150K per resident and payed them out $50K, profitting $100K to teach, insure, etc everything related with the resident. If I'm correct on this, then why is there financial constraints, isn't that $100K enough??? Is it politics?

However, this will only make some residency programs more competitive (like ortho, plastics, derm, ER, radiology) because those numbers will not increase. The medical schools are being created to increase the number of Family doctors. Therefore, it is not unreasonable to expect LESS carib trained doctors getting into the most competitive specialties.

Agreed, more focus on preventive medical measures is what I think this country needs...

Thanks,
A

 

[Giemsa]

I seriously hope that med-schools in the US & CDN open up med-schools seats that will match the no. of residency positions.

Canadian medical school graduates : CaRMS residency positions ~ 1:1

There's no excess of residency positions in Canada.

 

[Ariee]

Wow, really? I didn't know that et je suis Canadienne! I've had ppl from my school match Ortho, Uro, psych, fm, im in Canada...how is that possible then? I mean its a few and they take the top MCEE test scores only as a filter, but does that mean that maybe some CMG's are taking some time off before they match, how do the IMG's match in?

How, I love thee Canada!

 

[Giemsa]

I've had ppl from my school match Ortho, Uro, psych, fm, im in Canada...how is that possible then?

Basically, there are a few extra residency spots (236 in 2009) set aside for IMGs, the vast majority in family medicine (44.5%); the top three round out with internal medicine (10.6%) and psychiatry (6.4%). Quotas for 2009 are shown here. These are in a separate stream from the CMG (Canadian medical graduate) spots (which number almost 2600).

Also, there are usually a few spots left (again, mostly family medicine) after the CMGs have matched, and frequently these fill with IMGs, but the number of additional people picked up is low. This is why, in 2009, the total number of IMGs that matched in Canada was 392 (but there were only 236 IMG spots).

Stats here

PS - Be aware that there are ROS contracts attached to these IMG positions. People always bitch that they didn't know about them ahead of time. So read about them on the carms.ca website, and go in (if you wish) with your eyes open. If you're fluent in French, that'll help - there's usually stuff left over at the French-language schools (if you like family medicine).

 

[Ariee]

Wow, Giemsa, thank you! These are fascinating statistics. I never took the time to evaluate these numbers as I recently obtained US citizenship and decided not to apply to Canada...Without it though, I thought I'd do residency in the US and return back to Canada. Although I'm most definitely going to get dual licensed.

These numbers are FASCINATING! Honestly, 2600 spots, wow, wow, wow, the US generates 10times this number...the medical system needs to change in Canada, perhaps you'll pioneer it?!

Thanks friend, appreciate the stats!
A

Basically, there are a few extra residency spots (236 in 2009) set aside for IMGs, the vast majority in family medicine (44.5%); the top three round out with internal medicine (10.6%) and psychiatry (6.4%). Quotas for 2009 are shown here. These are in a separate stream from the CMG (Canadian medical graduate) spots (which number almost 2600).

Also, there are usually a few spots left (again, mostly family medicine) after the CMGs have matched, and frequently these fill with IMGs, but the number of additional people picked up is low. This is why, in 2009, the total number of IMGs that matched in Canada was 392 (but there were only 236 IMG spots).

Stats here

PS - Be aware that there are ROS contracts attached to these IMG positions. People always bitch that they didn't know about them ahead of time. So read about them on the carms.ca website, and go in (if you wish) with your eyes open. If you're fluent in French, that'll help - there's usually stuff left over at the French-language schools (if you like family medicine).

 

[Giemsa]

Actually, interesting factoid I read somewhere:

And no, I can't find the reference! But it's out there somewhere.

Apparently, the "magic number" for Canadian medical student graduates to off-set retirements and physicians leaving the country is 2500.

In 2009, Canada produced around 2400 Canadian grads.

Anyways, 2500 is the number of graduates that Canada need to be entirely self-sufficient, with a nice buffer zone for increasing/aging population. (The reference also estimated that at the current rates, Canada would have "caught up" our physician shortage by 2015 or 2016).

I don't know if these numbers are still accurate (I don't think we'll be "caught up" by 2015 . . or maybe Obama economics will drive some of the snowbirds back up North and speed things along?)

Out of curiosity, Ariee, are you or other Canadian colleagues worried about the impact of Obama's health care reforms? Are people talking about defecting back to the cold motherland?

 

[Ariee]

Hi Giemsa,

You're quite the math wiz I am impressed.

Apparently, the "magic number" for Canadian medical student graduates to off-set retirements and physicians leaving the country is 2500.

In 2009, Canada produced around 2400 Canadian grads.

Anyways, 2500 is the number of graduates that Canada need to be entirely self-sufficient, with a nice buffer zone for increasing/aging population. (The reference also estimated that at the current rates, Canada would have "caught up" our physician shortage by 2015 or 2016).

2500!! Wow, wow, wow! That is so low! I know Canada has less population than the US although it's a bigger land mass. Do these numbers take into consideration immigration. Canada has less stringent immigration laws and ppl are constantly moving in. This number is only for CDN citizens? Thanks that was really great to know!
Imma gonna do some research on this later tonight & see what I can come up with. It's tickling my anterior cingulate gyrus (gear shifter) to the point of OCD, can't do anything, till I get an answer mode!

Out of curiosity, Ariee, are you or other Canadian colleagues worried about the impact of Obama's health care reforms? Are people talking about defecting back to the cold motherland?

Well, seeing that I'm going to practice in the US, yes to the first sentence, b/c although I think this country (US) strongly needs health care reform and patients should NOT be turned down (we're talking about sending a pelvic abscess to the free care with a 103F temp- seen it personally), his solution may not be the right answer (I need to see some cold hard facts). If health care does reform, I will have no problem staying in the US and being a doctor here...if it does not, I am seriously thinking returning to Canada. The insurance companies are my nemesis. Friend had an ear infection, I knew it and knew that he would need amoxil/augmentin. Went to the "doctors clinic" where an orthopedic surgeon had 5 NP's running around, told the NP friend had an ear infection, NP concurred, prescriped amoxil and this cost: 100$ to see an NP at the "doctors care" + 70$ for 1 weeks amoxil with insurance...In oregon, NP's already have prescribing authority without an MD overseeing them...IMHO, this is silly and dangerous, it's a slap in the face for the pcp who has schooled way more extensively than the NP...so many things are a$!$! backwards here...

 

[Tigerz_Fan]

Well, seeing that I'm going to practice in the US, yes to the first sentence, b/c although I think this country (US) strongly needs health care reform and patients should NOT be turned down (we're talking about sending a pelvic abscess to the free care with a 103F temp- seen it personally), his solution may not be the right answer (I need to see some cold hard facts). If health care does reform, I will have no problem staying in the US and being a doctor here...if it does not, I am seriously thinking returning to Canada. The insurance companies are my nemesis. Friend had an ear infection, I knew it and knew that he would need amoxil/augmentin. Went to the "doctors clinic" where an orthopedic surgeon had 5 NP's running around, told the NP friend had an ear infection, NP concurred, prescriped amoxil and this cost: 100$ to see an NP at the "doctors care" + 70$ for 1 weeks amoxil with insurance...In oregon, NP's already have prescribing authority without an MD overseeing them...IMHO, this is silly and dangerous, it's a slap in the face for the pcp who has schooled way more extensively than the NP...so many things are a$!$! backwards here...

Ugh! I hate to see the subject changed, but, I just can't help myself.

I have heard of patients that are transferred out. However, they are usually transferred out to a facility that takes the uninsured-in no eay does it mean that they get less care. In every city, there are hospitals that will do anything for the patient regardless of ability to pay. The best part is that many of these are tertiary faclities, so many of the patients get better care. I happen to work in 2 of them. The access to health care is there. The resources need to know how to use them (SSW). Many of the general public seems to think that this health care is going to be free. It will not. Taxes will be increased. And I strongly suspect that the government will still charge copays (just like they do in Medicare/Medicaid and the VA). This will not be a good thing for our patients. If is eventually run anything like the VA health system and Medicare/Medicaid, bascially, our patients will not have adequate health care.

And about your friend, well that is another example of not knowing the system. Nothing can be done about the copay for the doc's visit. However, Walmart, Sam's Club, and Kmart all have prescriptions that are $4 for a one month supply. Walgreens also has a discount drug program. Grocery stores in my city have free antibiotics. I hate to tell you, but amox is on the $4 and free lists. These lists are available on their websites.

And don't get me started on NPs practicing independently................

 

[dragonfly99]

Those Doc in the Box places are a ripoff. Better to go to the county clinic, or a volunteer-run or free clinic, if you don't have a PCP. Otherwise, your primary care doc will give you better treatment for less money.

p.s. orthopedic surgeons don't know jack about treating URI's or ear infections....not that it's super hard, but what the hell!

 

[Aloha83]

Stop! Why can't you just leave a person with his opinion and perception please? If this is what HE wants and is RIGHT for HIM; how the heck can you judge this? And if he had a 4.0 here why shouldn't he go to the Caribbean if it's what he REALLY wants to?
Medicine is way more than getting into a "good" school or training your brain activity....

Bound, you seem like a great guy! Email whenever you want to!

 

[schandan13]

Stop! Why can't you just leave a person with his opinion and perception please? If this is what HE wants and is RIGHT for HIM; how the heck can you judge this? And if he had a 4.0 here why shouldn't he go to the Caribbean if it's what he REALLY wants to?
Medicine is way more than getting into a "good" school or training your brain activity....

Bound, you seem like a great guy! Email whenever you want to!

IMHO, I doubt whether the OP would really make his/her decision (a potentially life altering one at that) based on what is written on SDN...

 

[JonathanMD]

Stop! Why can't you just leave a person with his opinion and perception please? If this is what HE wants and is RIGHT for HIM; how the heck can you judge this? And if he had a 4.0 here why shouldn't he go to the Caribbean if it's what he REALLY wants to?
Medicine is way more than getting into a "good" school or training your brain activity....

Bound, you seem like a great guy! Email whenever you want to!

The original post was asked in question form, not statement or opinion. It's no one's fault for answering.

I'll say it again, the goal is to become a U.S. medical doctor, not a medical student. Any action or choice that reduces the chances of reaching the goal isn't helping. U.S. schools are considered "good" schools because they dramatically increase the chances for landing a residency.

No one should be going to the Caribbean if they don't have to because of exactly this.