Why does everyone crush your dreams?

Started by Bound4SGU
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Get help with your application

Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
The original post was asked in question form, not statement or opinion. It's no one's fault for answering.

I'll say it again, the goal is to become a U.S. medical doctor, not a medical student. Any action or choice that reduces the chances of reaching the goal isn't helping. U.S. schools are considered "good" schools because they dramatically increase the chances for landing a residency.

No one should be going to the Caribbean if they don't have to because of exactly this.

I think we're all essentially saying the same thing aren't we? I feel like this post is becoming cyclic... When you go to your medschool/residency interviews, listening to one another is impt feature 😉

On another off-note, I'd like to add that I strongly dislike posting on this thread, b/c my name gets stuck next to the big ANGRY smiley face on SDN! :laugh:

Tigerz;
I have heard of patients that are transferred out. However, they are usually transferred out to a facility that takes the uninsured-in no eay does it mean that they get less care. In every city, there are hospitals that will do anything for the patient regardless of ability to pay.
I'd like to see the day America's health care institutions does not transfer out patients and can treat everyone that enters through that door without the red-tape and beauracracy of the insurance companies. I also strongly dislike the quality management nurse that chases me around and wants to grab my HP, ntoes to find out what is going on with the pt, so that she can stomp all over me and ask WHY? WHY? WHY? does the patient need this/that. Seriously, I don't know why? It's standard of care, it's going to make the pt better, is that not good enough? G'bless their hearts though, I know they're doing their job. It just rubs me the wrong way when we get a pt who is crying, with a 104F, in pain & has no idea what is going on with their current state. Makes me 😡, I'm naive at this stage and dont have your experience... It just makes me feel as if though the insurance companies/hospitals/beaurocrats best interest supercedes the pts best interest when we send them to another institution...

The best part is that many of these are tertiary faclities, so many of the patients get better care. I happen to work in 2 of them. The access to health care is there. The resources need to know how to use them (SSW). Many of the general public seems to think that this health care is going to be free. It will not. Taxes will be increased. And I strongly suspect that the government will still charge copays (just like they do in Medicare/Medicaid and the VA). This will not be a good thing for our patients. If is eventually run anything like the VA health system and Medicare/Medicaid, bascially, our patients will not have adequate health care.
Agree! 👍. Obama's idea is great, his plan is fearsome...

And don't get me started on NPs practicing independently................
:laugh:

Ariee
 
I've worked at teaching hospitals x 4 and never have been asked to transfer a patient because he/she couldn't pay. We just took care of the uninsured patients and ate the loss, so I think that situation (transferring patients to "get rid" of them) is limited to certain institutions. Usually it's the teaching hospitals that DO take the uninsured people and eat the losses.

There were a few outpatient clinics @my last hospital that we couldn't refer our patients to after hospital discharge, but this was because they either couldn't pay anything or had Medicaid that reimbursed so poorly that the clinic would lose money by seeing them. There were other free clinics or county clinics where we could refer them, though. I actually volunteered at one of the free clinics sponsored by a church, even though I'm not religious. I actually think we provided very good care (although specialist care was harder to come by). It was certainly equivalent to what one would get in most any other primary care office.

There are a lot of people in the US who go to ER's to get care because THEY personally don't have to pay anything. I'm not sure I agree with this because you can't walk into a grocery store and have somebody hand you free food...yes for a food bank, but my equivalent to that would be a free clinic or one for the uninsured, not a busy ER. ER should be for people who are actually acutely ill...I think I've personally been to one as a patient only once or twice in my life.
 
The person with the ultimate superiority complex would elect to go into a Caribb school, destroy the STEPS, match into something ridiculous like Neurosurgery, then rub it in the faces of US grads because he was "against all odds".
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
OP - What you have described is why NOBODY I know has a clue that I am once again considering medical school. As soon as anyone knows you're pre-med they will ask you your stats, then belittle you for having the gall to try for something like medical school with your stats. For me, with a lower GPA and little clinical volunteering etc. the carib is a possibility, but it will be my last choice simply because of the difficulty in creates in re-entering the States for residency.

All I can say is good for you on making a decision, sticking to it, and giving the finger to all the annoying SDN pre-meds who think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread.
 
I dunno guys. I'm struggling with this too. I applied last cycle, got 1 interview, got waitlisted. This cycle has given me only 1 interview so far. I'm not losing hope or anything like that, but I doubt I'm going to go for a 3rd application cycle here in the U.S. I'd rather go to SGU / Ross than spend another 2-3 years trying to make it in here. If it were a question of retaking the MCAT, I would. My GPA isn't that ridiculously bad, and my MCAT is pretty good, and I honestly turned in a quality AMCAS this time. If it doesn't work out, all I'm saying is that I'm taking it as a sign that I did everything possible and it's time to head over to SGU. Is it a major blow to my ego? Sure. But maybe that is what I needed.
 
Also - a major part of life is having other people crushing your dreams. Don't worry about it. They aren't you, they don't know you. I agree that people can give reasonable advice and more often than not, perspectives from the members of this forums are good. But at the end of the day, you have to do what you believe is right. If you examined all options, thought through all scenarios, and made a decision, then never look back.
 
The person with the ultimate superiority complex would elect to go into a Caribb school, destroy the STEPS, match into something ridiculous like Neurosurgery, then rub it in the faces of US grads because he was "against all odds".

👍👍👍 And I think he'd be completely justified. Hell, if I went to Carrib, matched into something super competitive, I'd think I were something special.
 
I dunno guys. I'm struggling with this too. I applied last cycle, got 1 interview, got waitlisted. This cycle has given me only 1 interview so far. I'm not losing hope or anything like that, but I doubt I'm going to go for a 3rd application cycle here in the U.S. I'd rather go to SGU / Ross than spend another 2-3 years trying to make it in here. If it were a question of retaking the MCAT, I would. My GPA isn't that ridiculously bad, and my MCAT is pretty good, and I honestly turned in a quality AMCAS this time. If it doesn't work out, all I'm saying is that I'm taking it as a sign that I did everything possible and it's time to head over to SGU. Is it a major blow to my ego? Sure. But maybe that is what I needed.

Hey Food, just go with you gut. If you REALLY don't want to try another year of this crapshoot, just apply to the carib and see what happens! Nothing says you have to take an acceptance, but at least then you'd be in a position to say "Hm, med school or no med school....".

*After reading it more closely, have you already applied to SGU for this cycle?
 
Hey Food, just go with you gut. If you REALLY don't want to try another year of this crapshoot, just apply to the carib and see what happens! Nothing says you have to take an acceptance, but at least then you'd be in a position to say "Hm, med school or no med school....".

*After reading it more closely, have you already applied to SGU for this cycle?

Thanks - I have not yet applied to SGU or to Ross, but yeah I definitely will. At least so I have the option to take it if I need to.
 
I dunno guys. I'm struggling with this too. I applied last cycle, got 1 interview, got waitlisted. This cycle has given me only 1 interview so far. I'm not losing hope or anything like that, but I doubt I'm going to go for a 3rd application cycle here in the U.S. I'd rather go to SGU / Ross than spend another 2-3 years trying to make it in here. If it were a question of retaking the MCAT, I would. My GPA isn't that ridiculously bad, and my MCAT is pretty good, and I honestly turned in a quality AMCAS this time. If it doesn't work out, all I'm saying is that I'm taking it as a sign that I did everything possible and it's time to head over to SGU. Is it a major blow to my ego? Sure. But maybe that is what I needed.

Dude, I don't get it, I have similar stats as you (38 MCAT, low GPA), but I have 7 interviews now, a couple top-tier schools. It's possible you have a nasty recommendation letter there. Anyway, I'm rooting for you. There's no reason anyone with a 38 should have to go to the Caribbean.
 
Dude, I don't get it, I have similar stats as you (38 MCAT, low GPA), but I have 7 interviews now, a couple top-tier schools. It's possible you have a nasty recommendation letter there. Anyway, I'm rooting for you. There's no reason anyone with a 38 should have to go to the Caribbean.

Thank you sir, I really hope it's not a rec letter. But I'm increasingly suspicious that it is...However people tell me that they don't generally look at LoRs until after interviews?
 
If it doesn't work out, all I'm saying is that I'm taking it as a sign that I did everything possible and it's time to head over to SGU. Is it a major blow to my ego? Sure. But maybe that is what I needed.

It very well may be a good thing. I was talking to a program director of anesthesia at one of the Baylor hospitals--she's the one you would interview with if you applied for an anesthesiology residency there. She told me that she personally does not like to accept students that are exceptionally gifted or that are off-the-charts intellgent because she's found that (1) they're not teachable, they think they know it all, and (2) because they don't work as hard; they don't feel they have anything to prove. On the other hand, she said she likes to select students that are dead-center average because they are the one's who work their butts off to learn everything and prove to everyone that they are capable.

So maybe this is what you need to become a really good doctor...who knows.
 
As far as your mcat is concerned, you should be getting interviews from everywhere....a 38 is what 97 or 98th percentile nationally? Even a low gpa would be offset by this...there has to be something else. I read one thread where a student kept getting rejection letters and I'm not sure how but he discovered that one of his professors had put a negative statement in one of his lor's and that was all it took to kill his dream (for that year). I believe you can call the schools and ask them specifically what prevented you from getting in and they should be helpful and forthright. Good luck....man I wish I had a 38 mcat :meanie:
 
It very well may be a good thing. I was talking to a program director of anesthesia at one of the Baylor hospitals--she's the one you would interview with if you applied for an anesthesiology residency there. She told me that she personally does not like to accept students that are exceptionally gifted or that are off-the-charts intellgent because she's found that (1) they're not teachable, they think they know it all, and (2) because they don't work as hard; they don't feel they have anything to prove. On the other hand, she said she likes to select students that are dead-center average because they are the one's who work their butts off to learn everything and prove to everyone that they are capable.

So maybe this is what you need to become a really good doctor...who knows.

too bad you'd be considered way below average as an SGU student applying to Baylor even if your had 250's on the steps. So what she said doesn't apply to IMGs. and she's not the only one who makes the decision on who to interview, so if a super candidate applies to them i bet they'd interview them in a heart beat, but once again no one graduating from SGU would fall in that category, simply because you're an img. I know cause I am experience this bias right now, and no it's not because of my grades, because I know of 3 DO students with worse scores and grades than me who have twice as many interviews as me.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
too bad you'd be considered way below average as an SGU student applying to Baylor even if your had 250's on the steps. So what she said doesn't apply to IMGs. and she's not the only one who makes the decision on who to interview, so if a super candidate applies to them i bet they'd interview them in a heart beat, but once again no one graduating from SGU would fall in that category, simply because you're an img. I know cause I am experience this bias right now, and no it's not because of my grades, because I know of 3 DO students with worse scores and grades than me who have twice as many interviews as me.

You're applying for residency positions? May I ask, were you born in the U.S. ? I thought that sgu did a pretty decent job of placing their students in residencies....?
 
You're applying for residency positions? May I ask, were you born in the U.S. ? I thought that sgu did a pretty decent job of placing their students in residencies....?

sorry that was a type-o, i was too lazy to proof read my post. but to answer your question, no i wasn't born in the US, i moved here when i was 9yrs old. yeah sgu used to do well in the match, but last year's match was a huge disappointment for many people. over all SGU matches at a rate of about 70%. that's 70% of people who go through ERAS and The Match actually get a residency, this is pretty good considering that over all all international applicants match at a rate of 48%. in the 2009 Match, many of SGU's residencies were preliminary residencies, meaning they're only 1 year long and don't lead to a board certification. of the people that were lucky enough to match into a categorical residency most didn't match at anything special, and just matched at low ranking community programs. sure there were a few amazing matches but a hand full of good matches out of a class of close to 700 people is pretty low, even for SGU. And yes i am applying for this years match. I am applying for Anesthesia, and although I have some interviews, I am definitely far from confident that i'll match, while DO students with lower board scores than me are getting double the interviews if not triple.
 
Hi all,

I'm not a pre-med, but I've met many Carribean trained MDs. One of the attendings at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center is a Ross graduate. (Also one of the nicest coolest MDs I've met) That is a world renowned cancer hospital.
At another top nyc hospital I volunteered at, the Chairman of pediatrics of is a St. George's graduate.
Just because someone went to a US school vs. a foreign school doesn't make them smarter or better. Especially in big cities like NYC where everyone is so diverse. Go to some hospitals websites and look up their doctors. Half of them were trained in a different country but immigrated here. They're still the top doctors at top institutions and their patients probably don't know where they went to school.

I don't know how I wandered over here...I was looking up vet school stuff! You guys can be my MDs one day, i trust you!
 
Last edited:
sorry that was a type-o, i was too lazy to proof read my post. but to answer your question, no i wasn't born in the US, i moved here when i was 9yrs old. yeah sgu used to do well in the match, but last year's match was a huge disappointment for many people. over all SGU matches at a rate of about 70%. that's 70% of people who go through ERAS and The Match actually get a residency, this is pretty good considering that over all all international applicants match at a rate of 48%. in the 2009 Match, many of SGU's residencies were preliminary residencies, meaning they're only 1 year long and don't lead to a board certification. of the people that were lucky enough to match into a categorical residency most didn't match at anything special, and just matched at low ranking community programs. sure there were a few amazing matches but a hand full of good matches out of a class of close to 700 people is pretty low, even for SGU. And yes i am applying for this years match. I am applying for Anesthesia, and although I have some interviews, I am definitely far from confident that i'll match, while DO students with lower board scores than me are getting double the interviews if not triple.

I wonder if being born in the U.S. has anything to do with this. It may be that a person born in another country may be regarded as a 'flight risk', so to speak. Meaning that they'll become residency trained in the U.S. and then move back to their home country to actually practice. It would be interesting to see the statistics on U.S. born people who do and don't get a residency spot with sgu.

Overall, that sounds scary...good luck man, sincerely.
 
I wonder if being born in the U.S. has anything to do with this. It may be that a person born in another country may be regarded as a 'flight risk', so to speak. Meaning that they'll become residency trained in the U.S. and then move back to their home country to actually practice. It would be interesting to see the statistics on U.S. born people who do and don't get a residency spot with sgu.

Overall, that sounds scary...good luck man, sincerely.

at first I read your post and was thinking what are you talking about? flight risk? then I saw you were from Texas. Sorry but the #1 reason why foreigners want to do a US residency is to work as an MD in the US cause this is one of few countries left where doctors make more than teachers and can make the big bucks, in most countries doctors are government employee's and make the same wage as other government employees i.e. teachers, postal workers, whatever. The US health care training isn't that awesome that someone would leave their country and family for a minimum of 3 years to be trained here and then take off to their country and steal the US secretes, or even go through the hassle of visa issues and all the fees that are associated with it. In fact many European countries are at the medical forefront more so than the US. Low molecular weight heprin was approved for use in Europe for more than 10 years before the FDA approved it for use in the US. If you want to be at the medical forefront you'll do your training in some European country where the use of new medications and surgical procedures is approved instead of being deemed experimental. Also what's the point of learning how to use some of the high tech equipment used in the US medical field when it's simply not available in their home country. so an example you get into a residency in the US and learn how to read MRI's and angiograms and do doppler studies, then you run away to your home country, but guess what there is no MRI machine in your home country, they don't do doppler studies or angiograms, so you just spent 3 years or more learning how to read studies and come up with a diagnosis based on studies that you will never do in your home country because you don't have the resources. No the only reason why foreigners struggle to get into US residencies is to become a licensed physician in the US and have a chance at making a lot of money.

Yes after I spent close to 20 years in the US and only 9 years in my previous country i'll quickly run back with the US medical secretes. Maybe the residency programs think I am a communist and will brain wash them and the hospital or will sell their hospital secretes to the Soviets.


thanks for the sincere wish, but that thought process is just ridiculous.
 
Haha...dam dirty spies 😀

No, I was thinking from the perspective that....well, let me put it this way: in Texas 90-95% of the seats are reserved for in-state residents and the reason for this is basically financial. Texas doesn't want to spend thousands of dollars on a student and then have them go practice back in their home state. Yes, it does happen but to avoid it (or minimize it) they reserve most of the seats for those students that they believe will end up practicing in Texas. I was taking that perspective and simply wondering if residency programs might have the same mentality....I really have no idea though, just wondering.
 
To aspiring doctors of the future; try not to let negativity get you down. Some of the people putting you down don't even like themselves.

The USMG vs IMG sideshow is decades old. US organized medicine has tried to hinder, stop, and mock, etc etc the flow of non US/Canada educated docs. Nothing new and in the opinion of many, related to anti-competitive nature/egos/insecurities. FYI; over the decades there have been many US court legal battles between pro IMG and against. Usually this means schools and/or students/parent association counsel pitted against big organized medicine. More times than non David has prevailed against Goliath.
An undeniable element of SGU's success is their legal success. Fueled by the passion of his own children s desire to become docs and the wish that justice and fairness prevail, Bernie Ferguson, J.D. has been instrumental over the years. Armed with a briefcase and the truth, he has taken on multibillion dollar organized medicine and prevailed.


I will say that most of the AMG's I have known over the last 25 years are good people and have no qualms with where a colleague studied. I have worked with and/or supervised AMG's and IMG's and in both groups there are stronger and weaker. Some have great board scores, but have difficulty applying it to sick people
You will interact with many different personalities. Some AMG attendings can see no wrong in AMG residents despite clear evidence to the contrary. I had attained significant clinical experience before starting as a PGY1. To my dismay I was often paired with uper level residents that gave a hard time and were difficult to work with. One of them, an AMG, literally would make a quick exit from the room where a patient was crashing, either scared to take care of a sick patient or not confident, whatever. When I met with the chief resident to express my concerns and frustrations, he told me I was paired with them because I can function on my own and that I should take it as a compliment. Another poignant moment that comes to mind while I was an ED(not erectile dysfunction) attending. A patient already seen by the rhouse staff(residents) and admitted to the floor deteriorated while still in my ED. I recall a short lived debate with an AMG resident known to have stellar boards scores. She argued academically to send an abg to see if the patient needed intubation. I saw a rapidly deteriorating patient turning blue. Perhaps on an exam you can order an abg and wait. In real life you can always extubate when stable but if you don't put the tube in soon enough, it could be disaster.

To be fair, I've seen stuff from both AMG's and IMG's, however the AMG fxxk ups seem to stand out more as usually they are the ones proclaiming to be so wonderful. Again, select people, not everyone. I have great colleagues/friends from both camps that I would use for my own family.

The multitude of schools in the Caribbean is a recent phenomenon (last 25 years)

Other than political correctness, there is no particular magic in studying medicine at a US school or any other country school for that matter.

As we know, the content of medicine is quite similar if not the same across the planet. Most of the standard textbooks we have known and loved(or hated) are commonly used around the globe.

Schools like SGU realized the above and "let the genie out of the bottle" in providing a US like curriculum to students.

About the criticism from select people about international schools that have a high attrition rate, etc.

My take and feeling on this is that it is perfectly OK and quite fair to give people the chance to study what they wish. In many nations, studying medicine simply means that you enroll in the medical curriculum. The US medical education system is highly controlled and seats limited thus produces the doggy dog atmosphere and can lead a person into believing he/she is Gods gift to the wolrd.


In systems where anyone can choose to study what they want, a significant percentage change their career. some realize it is not what they wanted, or aren't happy with the lifestyle, workload, whatever... FILTERS. but at least you get the chance.

Reality is that ANY AMG, is politically correct. None of them are stupid, some sharper than others, lots of ego, but they are part of the system and politically have first crack at residency spots. IMG's are not stupid either and have worked/studied very hard also. Lack of access to residencies for IMG's is not due to lack of aptitude or talent sadly, but is because of political incorrectness. Over the years I have seen many cases in point in regard to this. One particular example is that of the husband of a female resident from India, a colleague of mine. The husband, a young quite accomplished Indian doctor already certified by The Royal College of Orthopedic Surgery, had applied to US programs and been rejected repeatedly over 2-3 years. He did a 6 month or 1 year research spot at Harvard I recall. Reapplied via his attorney to the program and was accepted. Poor guy, did not one, but two orthopedic residencies, and in the days before the work hours regulations. His program actually ended up quite happy because they acquired both a resident and teaching attending, 2 for price of one.



Not that long ago, the MCAT did not exist for entry into US schools. The researchers and statisticians claim it is useful to predict future success. Others would argue that it is yet another monstrosity in a list of ever growing standardized exams BUSINESS. The recent USMLE Clinical Skills Exam is another one, and I am sure the AMG's will agree, as they have already objected to this one. Many of these exams have become but money making machines. Nowadays just passing a so called board certification exam must be followed up with something called MOC, maintenance of certificate, more money making BS.


It seems many Caribbean schools emulate the US curriculum as to facilitate entry into US medicine. Anyone see something wrong with that?

Follow your dreams, but make informed and wise choices. 👍


PS; my high school grade advisor advised me to become a baker.
I have a lovely recipe for Tiramisu that uses ricotta instead of mascarpone. pm if u want it
 
Last edited: