Why does LizzyM score only use cGPA?

[stupid1001]

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I am an engineering major planning on applying this summer. My cGPA is 3.55 while my sGPA is 3.72 and my MCAT score is 31. I know that LizzyM score can help me narrow down my school choices but im surprised that it only incorporates cGPA.

At my school, engineering is definitely harder than pure science and almost always has a lower GPA averages. For someone with my stats and major, will my sGPA be able to pull my cGPA up or make me look like an acceptable candidate? or will it significantly hinder me?

 

[Goobs]

I think the common consensus is that rigor of major is no where near as important as overall cGPA. Although adcoms do realize engineering is a hard major it won't compensate for a lower GPA.

 

[Lollygag]

Idk how it would look as far as chances go but I was under the impression that the LizzyM score is just to give you a very general idea of where you stand; what I would do is average the gpa's together so it would be 3.635 x 10 + 31 = ~67 LizzyM should be the range of school's you apply to.

But I personally think you have a decent chance assuming you apply broadly and have great extracurricular's to back you up. Maybe try posting in the "What are my chances" thread and lay out your entire application to get a better idea of how competitive you would be. Because you may have the numbers but there are a ton of other factors that come into play besides your GPA and MCAT

 

[Narmerguy]

The idea behind the LizzyM score was just to help students narrow down their list of schools in a sensible fashion since there were students with 3.6 & 27 applying to school's with an average LizzyM of 70.

In your case, I think rigor can help round out a picture but can't really compensate for low grades. I would be conservative in using your GPA to select schools to apply to and not "bump" your GPA a bunch of points since you don't know how each adcom will handle it.

 

[qwe7791]

Where is the thread for LizzyM scores and the schools that correspond to those scores?

 

[Hau5MD]

Where is the thread for LizzyM scores and the schools that correspond to those scores?

there was a thread for it earlier but it was eventually compressed into a spreadsheet along with msar data. you can find it here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Ex2MjlBTDE0bXFXNGFZczZqYTZKb2c&hl=en_US#gid=0

 

[galaxyx]

Because their are 842 factors considered in an applicant and MCAT and GPA, while important, are just two of those factors. It gives you a rubric for schools where you have a decent shot at given that the other 840 factors are average as well. It's not a scientific formula; it's a completely subjective interpretation of objective numbers.

 

[Meihua]

One adcom told my brother they didn't take major into account when looking at GPA unless you majored in chemical engineering at MIT or CalTech...then they'd give you a little more leeway.

 

[EnginrTheFuture]

For schools that do not look at you holistically before interview invites/secondary invites... you are out of luck.

But for schools that look at each app fairly closely beforehand, it is my opinion that for majors often riddled with grade deflation (engineering, math, physics) and/or tough schools, the MCAT is simply weighted much more heavily than the LizzyM score weighs it. If you have a 29-32 MCAT and a 3.5, you probably won't get any prop up for the major at ALL. If you start creeping into the 34+ range, I wouldn't find it unreasonable for the person sorting to overlook the GPA. That is what the MCAT is for, to level the playing field in a standardized fashion. This type of standardization is probably more frequently sought after when reviewing certain people under certain circumstances (like tough major/ tough institution/ and SLIGHTLY lower than avg. GPA or serious financial burdens)

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

there was a thread for it earlier but it was eventually compressed into a spreadsheet along with msar data. you can find it here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Ex2MjlBTDE0bXFXNGFZczZqYTZKb2c&hl=en_US#gid=0

as far as this LizzyM sheet goes, does anyone know if it takes into account URM or not?

 

[Lollygag]

as far as this LizzyM sheet goes, does anyone know if it takes into account URM or not?

I would think not. How much an adcom weighs URM status is not something you can quantify and statistically compare among schools and any attempt to do so IMO would be useless and pure speculation.

 

[Geebeejay]

I am an engineering major planning on applying this summer. My cGPA is 3.55 while my sGPA is 3.72 and my MCAT score is 31. I know that LizzyM score can help me narrow down my school choices but im surprised that it only incorporates cGPA.

At my school, engineering is definitely harder than pure science and almost always has a lower GPA averages. For someone with my stats and major, will my sGPA be able to pull my cGPA up or make me look like an acceptable candidate? or will it significantly hinder me?

"LizzyM score" is just a tool that one particularly admission committee member (Lizzy M) at one particular school uses as a guide for weighing student's stats. It's a pretty good tool to gauge which schools you should/shouldn't apply to, but it isn't necessarily used by other schools. Every US medical school isn't looking at applicants stats and calculating their "Lizzy M" scores before deciding to throw your app in the trash or not. It's an SDN thing mainly.

 

[sector9]

there was a thread for it earlier but it was eventually compressed into a spreadsheet along with msar data. you can find it here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Ex2MjlBTDE0bXFXNGFZczZqYTZKb2c&hl=en_US#gid=0

Just to clarify: There was no MSAR data used in the making of this spreadsheet in the link. In fact, the whole point of making it was to avoid using MSAR data as AAMC has the copyright on the MSAR data

The data comes from freely accessible sources, like school websites

 

[stupid1001]

For schools that do not look at you holistically before interview invites/secondary invites... you are out of luck.

But for schools that look at each app fairly closely beforehand, it is my opinion that for majors often riddled with grade deflation (engineering, math, physics) and/or tough schools, the MCAT is simply weighted much more heavily than the LizzyM score weighs it. If you have a 29-32 MCAT and a 3.5, you probably won't get any prop up for the major at ALL. If you start creeping into the 34+ range, I wouldn't find it unreasonable for the person sorting to overlook the GPA. That is what the MCAT is for, to level the playing field in a standardized fashion. This type of standardization is probably more frequently sought after when reviewing certain people under certain circumstances (like tough major/ tough institution/ and SLIGHTLY lower than avg. GPA or serious financial burdens)

Would you consider my GPA to be slightly or significatly below average (considering an average medical school)?

 

[Amazingmuzmo]

cGPA is below average, sGPA is a little above average.

 

[occams_razor]

Would you consider my GPA to be slightly or significatly below average (considering an average medical school)?

I wouldn't worry about your GPA, yes, your cGPA is below average for matriculants but still an acceptable GPA. your science GPA is great, above average for matriuclants (3.6 is about the average science GPA for all matriculants). your MCAT is average for matriculants. numbers wise you are good for getting in somewhere MD, but you are going to need strong extracurriculars and LORs to stand out.

I've heard many people say that it's a holistic process and engineering majors are given some leeway, particularly if your GPA is above a certain acceptable level (usually you hear 3.5 being the cutoff, but this will depend on the school)