Why does Rosalind Franklin University (RFU) have a bad rep?

[nanomed]

Hi All,
Can anyone direct me or discuss why Rosalind Franklin University School of Medicine (RFU-SOM) has such a bad reputation amoungest SDNers!? Is this a good school or not?
Thanks,
Nanomed

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[Falco2525]

Hi All,
Can anyone direct me or discuss why Rosalind Franklin University School of Medicine (RFU-SOM) has such a bad reputation amoungest SDNers!? Is this a good school or not?
Thanks,
Nanomed

It lost its accredidation under a different name a few years ago thus it lost its reputation...with this it renamed itself to its current name Ros Franklin....

 

[spicedmanna]

Hi All,
Can anyone direct me or discuss why Rosalind Franklin University School of Medicine (RFU-SOM) has such a bad reputation amoungest SDNers!? Is this a good school or not?
Thanks,
Nanomed

It's not a top research medical school, but it's a fully accredited medical school in the US. It's good enough for an MD and the kind of residencies I'm thinking about. If that were my only acceptance, I wouldn't hesitate to go there at all. The only thing I don't like about it is that it is in the middle of nowhere.

I think it had some financial trouble a little while ago. It used to be called The Chicago Medical School, or something, and was recently renamed. Basically, I think it was trying to get away from NIH funding, and what happened was that it wasn't successful in doing without it. They reorganized and changed their approach. Now, everything is essentially cool.

It has a bad reputation on SDN, because some select folks here have sticks up their butts, that's all.

 

[cubbbie]

I don't know about a bad rep ...

But I do know it was recently on probation or something ... it was close to losing it's accreditation. I don't know how close, and I'm sure someone will correct me about this. But basically part of the name change to Rosalind Franklin was a PR move to distance itself from this event.

Also, it is not really aligned with any major hospital system in Chicago, so some have viewed the school as a degree mill -- resulting also from the fact that they used to have a policy of accepting almost everyone who applied and eliminating around 1/3 of the class after first year.

Again -- I'm sure someone will jump on me for saying all this, but these are at least my impressions of the school.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Also, it is not really aligned with any major hospital system in Chicago, so some have viewed the school as a degree mill -- resulting also from the fact that they used to have a policy of accepting almost everyone who applied and eliminating around 1/3 of the class after first year.

I don't think this part has been true for a while. If you look on SDN, you'll notice that they reject a lot of people. They used to have an SMP type of program where they would give automatic admission to people who made a 3.0 or higher, but they got rid of that this year. From what I've heard the program was pretty challenging, though, so it wasn't like an easy admit.

As for the reputation, I think the big factors are what you and others pointed out -- the lack of hospital affiliations and probation issue. My understanding is that the probation issue was related entirely to funding and had nothing to do with the quality of education there, though.

 

[greytmedic]

Rosalind Franklin University used to be known as Finch University. The Chicago Medical School was, and is, a college under both names. The CMS lost accreditation and was then put on probationary status with the LCME. It is now offically off probation and returned to its full accreditation. It has a bunch of info in the dean's letters and other info posted on its website. Some people just can't get over that the school lost acceditation.

 

[senioritaelena]

because they are tight-assers. One refernce letter was 2 days late becuas emy prof was sick and they withdrew my file!!

 

[Dr. Will]

WE DID NOT LOSE ACCREDIDATION! WE WERE ON PROBATION FOR ONE YEAR (YES WE HAVE FULL ACCREDIDATION AND ARE NO LONGER ON PROBATION)!

This is the same crap every year. People keep spreading what they've heard without actually looking in to it. We were put on probation for administrative and financial purposes. At no point did it have to do with the curriculum. All the necessary changes were made and thus we were pulled off of probation after the most recent LCME visit.

 

[Dr. Will]

Oh and about the curriculum, it's actually very strong. I feel very confident after spending four years there. I did a few away rotations and noticed that many of the students I interacted with from "better name schools" did not have some of the skills we were taught during our third year. I think this is a credit to the many hospital affiliations we have in a great city as Chicago.

As for that issue, we are partnered with the Advocate health system, which has some great hospitals throughout Chicago, Cook County, and various other sites. You get a wide range of clinical exposure to many different populations. And the campus itself is about 30-40 minutes from downtown. Trust me when I say you won't have that much free time to enjoy it. But once 3rd year hits, you're downtown. When you want to get to the city, you can. It's not all that difficult.

 

[iwannagomed]

dr. will...

this is off topic...

but can u confirm the extremely high acceptace rate for in-state applicants post-interview (near 100%)???

i really wanna go there, and i just wanna know my chances...

 

[NonTradMed]

Also, it is not really aligned with any major hospital system in Chicago, so some have viewed the school as a degree mill -- resulting also from the fact that they used to have a policy of accepting almost everyone who applied and eliminating around 1/3 of the class after first year.

I don't think this was true. No allo school in the US accepts 'amost everyone', at least not in the recent past. I think you may be thinking about the SMP program, which is less selective than the med school and is pretty rough, but if you make it through alright, I think they give you an acceptance.

I don't think this part has been true for a while. If you look on SDN, you'll notice that they reject a lot of people. They used to have an SMP type of program where they would give automatic admission to people who made a 3.0 or higher, but they got rid of that this year. From what I've heard the program was pretty challenging, though, so it wasn't like an easy admit.

As for the reputation, I think the big factors are what you and others pointed out -- the lack of hospital affiliations and probation issue. My understanding is that the probation issue was related entirely to funding and had nothing to do with the quality of education there, though.

I think this post probably explains most of the issues surrounding RFU. The matchlist for the school is pretty impressive, given that it has no major hospital affliation and it was on probation for a while. But the probation, if I remember correctly, was not b/c of academics, it was b/c of the way the school's finances were setup. The school has been having some problems lately but as far as I can tell, it's still hard to get in. There are no med school 'diploma mill's in this country as far as I can tell....otherwise, people wouldn't be moving to the carribeans for school if they could waltz into a med school in the US.

 

[MahlerROCKS]

A pathologist at RFU wrote THE BOOK in pathology--can someone elaborate for me. Also, RFU is not the only school to have even been on probation: UMKC and U Hawaii have also been on probation, and I am sure there have been other schools in the same situation

 

[45408]

A pathologist at RFU wrote THE BOOK in pathology--can someone elaborate for me. Also, RFU is not the only school to have even been on probation: UMKC and U Hawaii have also been on probation, and I am sure there have been other schools in the same situation

RFU's accepted students' MCAT scores is about a 30, and there are some state schools with lower numbers. It's a pretty average school, which is fine.

 

[jackieMD2007]

I interviewed there and thought the facilities were gorgeous and that the students were very nice. I liked the people I was interviewing with as well. I don't know why people say nasty stuff about schools before they actually visit them.

 

[BigKurz]

I interviewed there and thought the facilities were gorgeous and that the students were very nice. I liked the people I was interviewing with as well. I don't know why people say nasty stuff about schools before they actually visit them.

I agree completely. I had a great experience with them and see myself enjoying my time there. The only thing that I hesitate about is the cost, but honestly, med school is expensive in general--I'm just not going to think about it too much .

Unless I get into UIC (and its corresponding in-state tuition), I'm essentially sure that I'll be attending RFU next fall and am quite happy about it.

 

[potato51]

I don't know, but they've had some pretty sick match lists.

 

[Dr. Will]

As someone who has been a part of RFU for 5 years, I've loved it. The fifth year is because I did the AP program, and as someone said, it's not easy. Only about 50% of the class made it through the program and was admitted to the medschool. But those days are over.

As for the the acceptance rate, about 50% (in my class) are from California, the next big percentage was from Illinois, and people representing the rest of the country.

The match list continues to get better and better, and I can't wait to see how my class does. Each year, the class ave on Step 1 has been increasing, and the curves have become non-existant in some of the basic science classes. It is definitely becoming more competitive.

And yes, the path BRS, which EVERYONE around the country will be using to help study for Step 1 is written by two of our path proffessors. They're great and Path was the most enjoyable class of our second year because of these two.

So yeah...I guess we are that crappy of a school

 

[MahlerROCKS]

And yes, the path BRS, which EVERYONE around the country will be using to help study for Step 1 is written by two of our path proffessors. They're great and Path was the most enjoyable class of our second year because of these two.

That was the book, thanks

 

[NonTradMed]

A pathologist at RFU wrote THE BOOK in pathology--can someone elaborate for me. Also, RFU is not the only school to have even been on probation: UMKC and U Hawaii have also been on probation, and I am sure there have been other schools in the same situation

Really? I knew that school does not have a good rep, didn't know it was put on probation in the past.

 

[MadHopsMD]

Hi All,
Can anyone direct me or discuss why Rosalind Franklin University School of Medicine (RFU-SOM) has such a bad reputation amoungest SDNers!? Is this a good school or not?
Thanks,
Nanomed

one of reasons...might be because they are rude!!! I interviewed the first day...and they still have not told me my status. Um...maybe I should pull the trigger on them...grrr

 

[BigKurz]

one of reasons...might be because they are rude!!! I interviewed the first day...and they still have not told me my status. Um...maybe I should pull the trigger on them...grrr

Well you should probably just call them. If you recall, they said that they do not reject anyone until the end of the application season; instead, your file remains part of the pool that is viewed. I think it is likely that they do not *yet* wish to accept you, but may do so at a later date.

 

[laugh qd]

Like most schools that have rolling admissions, CMS has a list of applicants that are on "hold," having not been rejected nor accepted. Rolling admissions requires a constant reevaluation of the most current list of applicants each time the committee meets. If you have no intention of going to the school, whether CMS or any other med school, for goodness sake... take yourself off their list! You're doing both yourself and the schools a disservice by holding on to acceptances or your place on a hold list if you have no intention of matriculating.

As an interviewer at CMS, I have met some pretty fantastic applicants this year and look forward to meeting more of you. Good luck to you all in finding the medical school that's perfect for you, location-wise, $$$-wise, and family and friend support-wise. It's a wild 4 years!

 

[cubbbie]

I don't think this was true. No allo school in the US accepts 'amost everyone', at least not in the recent past. I think you may be thinking about the SMP program, which is less selective than the med school and is pretty rough, but if you make it through alright, I think they give you an acceptance.

No, I'm not talking about the SMP. This was in the past, as I said, and I don't know how far back in the past, honestly. RFU wasn't the only school to do it this way, either.

 

[MahlerROCKS]

Really? I knew that school does not have a good rep, didn't know it was put on probation in the past.

I've heard it on the forums before, but I've never seen it mentioned outside of SDN--take it with a grain of salt

 

[coffeebythelake]

Like most schools that have rolling admissions, CMS has a list of applicants that are on "hold," having not been rejected nor accepted. Rolling admissions requires a constant reevaluation of the most current list of applicants each time the committee meets. If you have no intention of going to the school, whether CMS or any other med school, for goodness sake... take yourself off their list! You're doing both yourself and the schools a disservice by holding on to acceptances or your place on a hold list if you have no intention of matriculating.

As an interviewer at CMS, I have met some pretty fantastic applicants this year and look forward to meeting more of you. Good luck to you all in finding the medical school that's perfect for you, location-wise, $$$-wise, and family and friend support-wise. It's a wild 4 years!

Can you tell me if CMS has specific quotas for international students, and when they interview until?

 

[Dr. Will]

Can you tell me if CMS has specific quotas for international students, and when they interview until?

I know there were about 4-5 non US citizens in my class. There are at least two that I know of in the class below me. As far as how long the interview process continues, I've seen interviews lasting into April, even into May. Be patient, it's still early.

 

[jonathon]

Generally, people want to go to a place with old buildings in a metro area that is a top ranked school instead of an average school (numbers wise) that has beautiful buildings and is not in a crowded area.

Hi All,
Can anyone direct me or discuss why Rosalind Franklin University School of Medicine (RFU-SOM) has such a bad reputation amoungest SDNers!? Is this a good school or not?
Thanks,
Nanomed

 

[FenderHM]

u of colo was/maybe still is on LCME probation, so good schools do get in trouble with LCME

 

[laugh qd]

Can you tell me if CMS has specific quotas for international students, and when they interview until?

No specific quotas that I'm aware of. Does any school do that? As for interview scheduling. CMS will continue to interview and admit candidates until our incoming class is filled. I would encourage you to contact the admissions office if you have not yet heard any response and you are still interested in the school. But remember, admissions offices are very busy at this time of year, so be nice!

 

[soeagerun2or]

And yes, the path BRS, which EVERYONE around the country will be using to help study for Step 1 is written by two of our path proffessors.. So yeah...I guess we are that crappy of a school

RR Path was written by a guy at a DO school.. Good things can come out of not as good places.

The question was generally, why is CMS at RF seen as a lower tier school? In sum: the university had a name change following the medical school being placed on probation by the LCME (it's currently fully accredited), it is 110th of 123 in NIH funding, it is not in the US News ranking for either research or primary care, and it do not have an associated hospital.

 

[laugh qd]

In sum: the university had a name change following the medical school being placed on probation by the LCME (it's currently fully accredited), it is 110th of 123 in NIH funding, it is not in the US News ranking for either research or primary care, and it do not have an associated hospital.

It "do" have (or shall I say, "It does have") a hospital affiliate. RFUMS has built a very strong relationship with many Chicago hospitals, but namely we have worked to create a primary partnership with the Advocate Health Care System (including Lutheran General, Christ/Hope, and Masonic). So, if you're looking for a medical school within a University Hospital, or one at the top of the US News and World Reports for research, this might not be the right place for you. If you're looking for receptive faculty, strong basic science and clinical education, and a school that prepares doctors who are respected within and outside of Chicago, CMS is worth your consideration.

Soeagerun2or, just wondering if you're given the 111th through 123rd NIH funding ranked schools this much attention?

 

[spicedmanna]

It "do" have (or shall I say, "It does have") a hospital affiliate. RFUMS has built a very strong relationship with many Chicago hospitals, but namely we have worked to create a primary partnership with the Advocate Health Care System (including Lutheran General, Christ/Hope, and Masonic).

Yeah, actually, it is affiliated with Cook County Hospital (John H. Stroger, Jr.), too. That would be a kick-ass hospital to a rotation in my opinion.

 

[soeagerun2or]

It "do" have (or shall I say, "It does have") a hospital affiliate.

Thanks for catching that . Let me rephrase my statement about hospital affiliates. RFUMS does not operate nor is it solely associated with a hospital/hospitals like most other allopathic medical schools

So, if you're looking for a medical school within a University Hospital, or one at the top of the US News and World Reports for research, this might not be the right place for you.

Precisely, that's all these kids are looking for. Blowing smoke up their ass about curiculum is for interview day

Soeagerun2or, just wondering if you're given the 111th through 123rd NIH funding ranked schools this much attention?

I give this much attention to as I see fit. Your cheerleading squad can't quench the truth about its reputation, if kids ask they should get a fair represenation about its past and present. I'm not trying to knock it at all, it's a fine school.

 

[Dr. Will]

RR Path was written by a guy at a DO school.. Good things can come out of not as good places.

The question was generally, why is CMS at RF seen as a lower tier school? In sum: the university had a name change following the medical school being placed on probation by the LCME (it's currently fully accredited), it is 110th of 123 in NIH funding, it is not in the US News ranking for either research or primary care, and it do not have an associated hospital.

I love how you are lecturing me about a place I've been for the last 5 years. If you're soley basing the school on the above "stats," you are missing the point. Stats like NIH funding and US News rankings are NOT the end all and be all. Consistantly, the students score above the national average on Step 1, the match list has been getting stronger and stronger, and we get great clinical training. I think this counts for more than how much money comes into the school. But hey, that's my opinion.

We do have an affiliation with the Advocate system. Does it matter that it's not university based? No, it doesn't because of the great training we are getting there. Also, fyi, the name change happened BEFORE the school was placed on probation. Take it from someone who has been there for BOTH events. Besides, the past is the past, and I repeat, the probation had NOTHING to do with the curriculum or education offered. It had to do with administative issues and the high price of tuition.

Again, please get your facts straight before you continue to spout off rumors that I heard when I was applying to medical school 5 years ago.

 

[Dr. Will]

Generally, people want to go to a place with old buildings in a metro area that is a top ranked school instead of an average school (numbers wise) that has beautiful buildings and is not in a crowded area.

The location issue is such a bs excuse. We are about 30 minutes from downtown, and NO ONE ever had a problem going there if they wanted. Class isn't mandatory. There were plenty of people that lived downtown all 4 years. Once you hit 3rd year (where you actually have MORE TIME), the majority of students move downtown. This location issue is way overblown.

 

[soeagerun2or]

Also, fyi, the name change happened BEFORE the school was placed on probation. Take it from someone who has been there for BOTH events. Besides, the past is the past, and I repeat, the probation had NOTHING to do with the curriculum or education offered. It had to do with administative issues and the high price of tuition.

The LCME awarded accreditation with probationary status following its 2003 visit. The name change to RFUMS was announced in January and became official in March 2004.

I've read the full report. The probationary designation was implemented for compliance on issues such as facilities construction, financial considerations [operational costs resting on tuition and subsequent student endebtedness] and other circumstances internal [school leadership, noncomplaince with AAMC committee requirements, and faculty productivity strength and retention] and external [conflicts arising due to clinical rotations with affiliated hospitals] to the medical school that affected the time needed to come into full compliance.

It's not uncommon for medical schools to be noncompliant in areas and necessitate the LCME to raise issues when reaccrediting. They put CMS on a probationary status due to the number of issues and the residual issues not rectified from the 1998 accreditation survey. It is neither a comment on the cirriculum nor of the students.

 

[SoCuteMD]

As someone who is NOT an RFU student and thus has no personal investment in the reputation of this school, let me say this:

Those of you sitting in pre-allo without any acceptances are in no position to be looking down on ANY school. Every allopathic (I can not speak to osteopathic as I'm not terribly familiar) school in the US will prepare you MORE THAN ADEQUATELY for the USMLE and for residency. If you look at the match lists of some of the schools that take a lot of crap on SDN you will see that those match lists are just as impressive, if not more so than some of the better known schools.

Good luck to ALL of you in the application process.

 

[morriske]

I wouldn't consider a school that admits ~8% of its applicants easy to get in to. I just received an acceptance from RFU and I'm thrilled about it. Based on the number of qualified applicants on SDN that have not received an accpetance yet (AND applied early) I am very happy to have an acceptance to a US Medical Doctor Program.

Schools like Johns Hopkins have been on probation in the past. I learned this from a very reliable source (adcom member at a top 20 medical school).

 

[iwannagomed]

congrats! hope to join ya!

 

[morriske]

congrats! hope to join ya!

Thanks

 

[melissainsd]

I was accepted at Drexel and RFUMS and so far I am leaning towards RFUMS. They have been very nice and maintained contact while I have yet to hear anything from Drexel after I sent my deposit check. I specially like the handwritten note from the dean encouraging me to attend. It is the little things like that, which make me feel welcome.

 

[Dr. Will]

The LCME awarded accreditation with probationary status following its 2003 visit. The name change to RFUMS was announced in January and became official in March 2004.

I've read the full report. The probationary designation was implemented for compliance on issues such as facilities construction, financial considerations [operational costs resting on tuition and subsequent student endebtedness] and other circumstances internal [school leadership, noncomplaince with AAMC committee requirements, and faculty productivity strength and retention] and external [conflicts arising due to clinical rotations with affiliated hospitals] to the medical school that affected the time needed to come into full compliance.

It's not uncommon for medical schools to be noncompliant in areas and necessitate the LCME to raise issues when reaccrediting. They put CMS on a probationary status due to the number of issues and the residual issues not rectified from the 1998 accreditation survey. It is neither a comment on the cirriculum nor of the students.

Again, I love that you're arguing with someone who was there. The visit was in 2003 but the probabtion did not go into affect until the year after. The report and it's findings take time to make official and it was not reported until before the 2004 academic school year began. By the time the decision was actually made, many of the compliance issues were solved. Again, there was a HUGE time lapse between the actual visit and decision.

As for the name change, yes it was announced far before January because I was AT the name change ceremony, which took place in January. So in essence, the decision to put the school on probabtion did not occur until after the actual decision to change the name of the school. As far as we are concerned (the students), the name change happened before March. From January to March they were busy changing things over, so it wasn't "offical" yet. But again, the decision to change the name came far in advance of the "official" start date.

And to be honest, I'm glad that you've actually read the reasons as to why we were placed on probabtion. Too many people on here continue to think the probation was a complete reflection on the curriculum and the students.

 

[iwannagomed]

just wondering what the reactions from students and faculty were like when probation was announced...

 

[Dr. Will]

Well of course we were all concerned about what would happen to us if we lost accrredidation and what that would mean for those of us that were enrolled there at the time. There was an open panel forum that allowed us to voice our concerns. The administration told us about the infractions that we were being placed on probation for. As I said in my above post, many of the issues that we were placed on probation for were already addressed or in the process of being so when the announcement was made. By that time we were confident that the probation would be lifted at the first follow up visit (1 year later), which it was. We had two years to comply with the LCME, and did so in just about under 1 year. It's an issue that has been really blown out of proportion to those who have not actually looked into what actually happened.

 

[MirrorTodd]

You get em Dr. Will! I've been trying to find this thread ever since you mentioned it.