Why don't people go to Canada to become doctors?

[nysegop]

Never mind, stupid thread.

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[Drrrrrr. Celty]

In terms of becoming a doctor? It's harder to become an MD in Canada than it is to become a MD in the US. Very few Canadian schools are interested in accepting OOP ( Out of province) candidates let alone though from outside the country.
Furthermore immigration to a new country like all other things has issues. It's not as simple as saying lets go and you're immediately given a bottle of maple syrup and a passport. It's a year of waiting. And honestly by the time you're 30, have a family, moving around isn't easy.
And yes, climatically it's very cold. Many people do not enjoy the cold. And while Canada, specifically parts like Toronto and Vancouver are amazing, many prefer someplace warm.

Furthermore you need French fluency for many provinces, potentially take new tests, and on top of that you'll need to join the Canadian boards for your specialty to begin practicing, all of which take a lot of time.

 

[Tolbert]

^^ this, and just off of what it seems, location would matter a lot too.. A lot of people applying don't want to go halfway across the country away from their families, let alone out of the country.

 

[nysegop]

Edit: Ignore. Stupid comment.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

How come people from Canada come here to become doctors? It's ridiculous. People should just stay in their homeland IMO.

Because they can? And it's not all that ridiculous, only a few hundred really go here.

 

[Tolbert]

Because they can?

pretty much. Why should you have to be confined somewhere just because you're born there? And being called "the land of the free" kiinnnddaa makes the US appealing imo

 

[californicati0n]

It may be a similar medical education system, but the two certainly don't have the same health care system....idk if that's a factor, but it would be for me haha

 

[nysegop]

Edit: Ignore. Stupid comment.

 

[CMoodie91]

How come people from Canada come here to become doctors? It's ridiculous. People should just stay in their homeland IMO.

They are better educated so they can get jobs in America quite easily, the pay in America is A LOT better than it is here in Canada etc..

Personally, I am staying in Canada but if my main interest was money..I probably would be jumping on a plane to California pretty quickly.

 

[nysegop]

Edit: Ignore. Stupid comment.

 

[DOC PENGUIN]

Because they can? And it's not all that ridiculous, only a few hundred really go here.

Not to mention the ludicrous protectionism American Medicine is known for.

 

[CMoodie91]

In the United States only surgeons and sub-specialists make more money. Primary care physicians make a LOT more money in Canada (as in over $100,000 more).

lol this is wrong.

Sorry, but a FD is going to be making 160+ pretty much wherever they go.

Specialists (which are also surgeons) like rads, cards, GI &c..are primarily what I was insinuating when I said can make a lot more money. Most people go into a specialty after they receive their MD unless they are going the FD route.

 

[BABSstudent]

How come people from Canada come here to become doctors? It's ridiculous. People should just stay in their homeland IMO.

Sounds like someone needs to travel outside of the country for a bit. Maybe you should study abroad when you get to college. You do know that you will provide healthcare to people of different nationalities, races and cultures if you become a doctor. Heck, the east and west coasts of the USA have a different culture.

 

[nysegop]

Edit: Ignore. Stupid comment.

 

[BABSstudent]

Get your facts straight.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/01/22/canadian_doctors_made_307482_on_average.html
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...uch-are-canadian-doctors-paid/article7750697/

I've actually been to other countries before, believe it or not. Providing care for people of other races and nationalities isn't a problem for me. However, I believe that United States doctors should be Americans.

Well I believe the doctors in the US should be the best and smartest. Nationality doesn't make someone smart.

 

[nysegop]

Edit: Ignore. Stupid comment.

 

[CMoodie91]

hahaha this thread just got gold.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

The goal should be to improve the "smartness" of US citizens so we don't have to contract foreigners.

Xenophobia isn't really cute. Furthermore medical school's mission is not to improve the overall education level of US citizens. Also, they're not replacing jobs, they're going to medical schools with international focuses or connections that are happy to help with their deficit by training maybe another 10 or 5 Canadians. None of which will affect you or an American's chance because those seats are independent of Americans.

 

[nysegop]

Edit: Ignore. Stupid comment.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Oh no wonder... You're Canadian...



I'm not xenophobic. I have plenty of friends from other countries. I'm liberal on immigration policy. I don't even think medical schools should deny admissions to Canadians, I just think it would be better if more Americans had the ambition to go to medical school.

47k Apply for 18k spots.

"I wish more Americans had ambition to go to medical school."

You my friend need a distraction.

 

[Tolbert]

Well I believe the doctors in the US should be the best and smartest. Nationality doesn't make someone smart.

47k Apply for 18k spots.

"I wish more Americans had ambition to go to medical school."

You my friend need a distraction.

I'm not xenophobic. I have plenty of friends from other countries. I'm liberal on immigration policy.

That's like the equivalent of saying something racist and then saying "i'm not a racist. I have black friends.."

 

[nysegop]

Edit: Ignore. Stupid comment.

 

[nysegop]

Edit: Ignore. Stupid comment.

 

[Tolbert]

And.....?

I do have black friends actually...

my point is, having black friends wouldn't make what you say any less offensive.

 

[nysegop]

Edit: Ignore. Stupid comment.

 

[Tolbert]

I never said anything about black people...

What did I say that is offensive?

it was a metaphor..

How come people from Canada come here to become doctors? It's ridiculous. People should just stay in their homeland IMO.

I believe that United States doctors should be Americans.

The goal should be to improve the "smartness" of US citizens so we don't have to contract foreigners.

this is what I was referring to. As serenade said,

" 47k Apply for 18k spots.

"I wish more Americans had ambition to go to medical school." "

 

[nysegop]

Edit: Ignore. Stupid comment.

 

[Tolbert]

Do you have percentages on how many foreign applicants the US medical schools are accepting compared to their US applicant counterparts?

 

[nysegop]

Edit: Ignore. Stupid comment.

 

[Tolbert]

About 12% of foreign applicants were accepted to a US medical school. That is still too high. It should be about 5%.
https://www.aamc.org/download/159330/data/table5.pdf

12%...

if that's too much, you're crazy.

 

[Tolbert]

by the way, you do realize you're saying 155 foreign people matriculating across the WHOLE US is too much, right?

and you're percentage isn't compared to their US counterparts, it's their acceptance rates.. Which means 155 compared to the the 18 THOUSAND of Americans who got accepted..

all i'm saying is if your goal was to look like an absolute jerk, job well done.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

About 12% of foreign applicants were accepted to a US medical school. That is still too high. It should be about 5%.
https://www.aamc.org/download/159330/data/table5.pdf

Gawd you're stupid.

there are 155 foreign matriculants in the entire US out of 20 thousand, meaning that they make up less than 1% of all matriculants.

Just because a larger proportion of doctors nowadays are people of colour doesn't make them foreigners...

 

[CMoodie91]

Oh no wonder... You're human

Hopefully we won't give them all away to foreigners...

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Anyway, I think this thread has run it's course. Mods close this thread.

 

[nysegop]

Edit: Ignore. Stupid comment.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

in

That's not how it works.

 

[Tolbert]

There is no reason why you should be nationalistic when it comes to medicine. You sir, should not be allowed anywhere near the medical field with that sort of mentality. Doctors want to help people. They are not supposed to be in it for the money, the prestige, or even the god damn degree. They want to help save lives and make people's lives better. You cannot be a doctor if you feel that an imaginary line that society calls "a border" is substantial enough to hinder medical development. If you truly cared about people, or even just the people in the US, you would gladly bring in anyone that is capable of providing quality healthcare.

Foreign doctors are not going to rain on your parade. Their numbers are still too low to make a significant difference in medical school admissions. At least 1/4 of them leave to go back to their original countries, so job security should not be an issue. And if they can speak the language and provide appropriate medical care, they deserve every right in the world to do it.

America has one of the best medical education systems in the entire world. If you truly gave a **** about anyone other than yourself, you would be happy to open our doors to anyone willing and capable of learning how to practice medicine properly.

And your snide comment about Americans should be driven to go to medical school, newsflash buddy, medical school is not for everyone. It is one of the most difficult paths a person can take. And it takes a hell of alot more than desire. Not everyone has the option to go. Not everyone has the physical, psychological, or intellectual means to go.

I'm a die-hard atheist, but may god help anyone that comes into your doctor's office.

 

[nysegop]

Edit: Ignore. Stupid comment.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

To refute that last standing point, 300k in Canada does not buy what 300k buys in the US. Gas is 3x as expensive, food 2x, rent 1.5x, and so on. So it balances out in the end really and makes it a non-point.

Either way, this conversation is null on every point now.

 

[nysegop]

Edit: Ignore. Stupid comment.

 

[Tolbert]

Personally I believe that if there are limited medical school spots, they should be given to Americans first.

i don't think i'll ever understand this point of view, so i'm just going to say, I disagree. A lot.

The limited seats should be given to the better applicants, plain and simple.

 

[nysegop]

Edit: Ignore. Stupid comment.

 

[Tolbert]

If there are two applicants with the same stats (1 foreign, 1 American) competing for 1 slot, the American deserves preference.

that never happens though..

 

[Mintcake]

This thread pretty much sums up why nysegop is on my ignore list.

 

[nysegop]

Edit: Ignore. Stupid comment.

 

[Tolbert]

Basically I don't have any problem with private medical schools (that don't accept any sort of government aid) accepting foreigners. My main concern is with finances. Many schools and/or their affiliated hospital receive some form of federal or state compensation. This money is generated through taxes paid by Americans. The way I see it, Americans shouldn't be paying for foreigner's education. Now, if the "foreigner" has been well established in the United States and paying their fair share in taxes, then absolutely they are entitled to the same rights as the rest of us.

okay this is my last response to this because I'm just tired of talking to a brick wall..

You're saying you think it should be Americans just because Americans contribute tax dollars? (And let me remind you there are only like 155 foreigners matriculating compared to 18k Americans)

First of all, I guarantee you 95% of Americans don't know their taxes contribute to this, and if they did, many would have no problem with it. Second, think about what you are saying. You think people should be upset about helping their country? Do you realize you are contributing to creating the next group of physicians? Whether they are foreign or not, they will become a doctor, most likely stay in the US, and maybe save YOUR life one day. Third, think about all of the other things where our money goes. I have a feeling you don't know this, but we only spend 2% of our federal taxes on education as a whole, and only 14% of state taxes on higher education as a whole. Now try again to tell me how that is too much? Now lastly, if you want to talk about costs, you might want to think about how much costs THEM. You may be paying your taxes and contributing your little , what, $10? on a foreigner, but each of them is likely going in $200k+ debt to go to school here. Now maybe I'm wrong, but I would think that the US is at least breaking even, if not making a profit at their expense.

And now I'm done.

 

[Tolbert]

This thread pretty much sums up why nysegop is on my ignore list.

lmao, lawls

It should not be about where you are from, where you are going, or anything similar to that. It should be about whether or not you are suitable for this kind of training and if you are willing to help people.

this, period.

/thread

 

[BABSstudent]

Basically I don't have any problem with private medical schools (that don't accept any sort of government aid) accepting foreigners. My main concern is with finances. Many schools and/or their affiliated hospital receive some form of federal or state compensation. This money is generated through taxes paid by Americans. The way I see it, Americans shouldn't be paying for foreigner's education. Now, if the "foreigner" has been well established in the United States and paying their fair share in taxes, then absolutely they are entitled to the same rights as the rest of us.

Do you know how tuition works? The reason why in-state and out-of-state tuition is different is because in-state people get taxes to cover part of tuition. The out-of-state people don't have this help. You may be able to guess that people from another country are included in out-of-state and don't receive the tax dollars to help them out.

Or are you talking about financial aid?

Oh, wait, noncitizens do not receive financial aid from the government. They are responsible for paying the full price of tuition by themselves. They might get a scholarship, but they are bearing the weight of $350k in medical school debt. Probably nobody from their home country can help them out because they probably don't have the financial ability to do so.

You also talk about stats between foreign and "American" citizens. Did you know that the average accepted person from a foreign country will have stats that are higher than the average accepted American? The reason is that they have to jump through way more hoops.

I think you have this view because you are scared that you won't get into medical school and that each foreign matriculant is personally taking a seat away from you or someone you know.

I say let foreigners apply because if they really believe they have a chance at getting into an American medical school then they must be amazing. Priority is always going to go to Americans (if two people have the same stats), but nationality shouldn't bar anyone from attending medical school.

Finally, I will take your argument and show you why it is flawed. Specifically, I will look at the American medical school seats are solely for American argument. If you really believe this, then should state schools only take their own residents? I mean, their tax dollars support the buildings and the students' tuition so it is unfair that other states' students should be accepted. Right? Never mind the fact that OOS accepted students have higher MCAT scores and GPAs than the IS people. That is essentially your argument and I don't think you would agree with that.

 

[nysegop]

Edit: Ignore. Stupid comment.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Can I throw you in water and calculate the displacement of water?