Why DOs are just as awesome as MDs.

[scotchtapetest]

This is too much for my phone lol. I think you mistook a couple of my posts. Although it was my understanding that aacomas will replace retaken courses

He was right and wrong.AACOMAS does have a limited grade replacement program in place, but it also doesnt count math in the sGPA.

But, a lot of his other points were good

Actually my post said:

1) AACOMAS does have grade replacement but what is and is not considered "science" is not the same as AMCAS. So, for instance in my case, my AACOMAS sGPA was lower than my AMCAS sGPA. So it doesn't always work in your favor!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[wjs010]

Actually my post said:

that's true. Doesn't AMCAS count math grades into the prereq? I do not know why AACOMAS doesn't! I could use that for help!

 

[HalfListic]

Actually my post said:

Youre right! My fault...I mis read it.

Good post too, btw.

 

[DrWily]

that's true. Doesn't AMCAS count math grades into the prereq? I do not know why AACOMAS doesn't! I could use that for help!

I'm glad it doesn't! It would have killed my AACOMAS sGPA!

 

[SpecterGT260]

Actually my post said:

Told u it was too long for my phone

 

[deleted103644]

As if all MD sites are the same... Let's not BS each other!

Did I say they were?

Yes their "formal didactics" which only exists (if it exists at all at some sites) if there is another US school around that they could piggyback on and the "pimping" by the intern because we (especially you and I) know how effective of a teacher an intern is Thanks for proving my point!

I was joking about the intern part. Interns are usually too busy to teach, and have generally forgotten most of what they learned anyway.

And you're mistaken if you think schools are the only source of effective teachers - there are many more ACGME residencies than MD schools, and almost all provide a decent educational component. Considering that didactics are built in for the residents, it doesn't take much to add on a curriculum for students or find faculty willing to teach.

Again it's not about the site it's about education. If you want to go down that route there is at least one of these top 20 schools in your favorite city that send its kids out to some really s**** sites in NJ. However, I have a feeling that they still get a pretty good education because there is adequate supervision even though the hospital sucks.

Your feelings are wrong. Great MD programs can (and do) have the occasional crappy rotation site.

A third year medical student doesn't need to see any complex cases; in fact, what they need is bread and butter cases but with constant supervision, direction, feedback and didactics.

This is wrong. Seeing complex cases in medical school is great. In fact, many programs intentional shift the simple cases to non-teaching services. If you want to be a glorified NP though, by all means, KISS.

1) AACOMAS does have grade replacement but what is and is not considered "science" is not the same as AMCAS. So, for instance in my case, my AACOMAS sGPA was lower than my AMCAS sGPA. So it doesn't always work in your favor!

That's true of any difference. And if the way this happens is by punishing people who are competent at math, well, that is another strike against COCA in my book.

Nobody is here to convince you or Johnny of pros and cons of OMM. You and everyone else are entitled to your opinions. As someone who has OMM training, I will tell you that it is a great tool for treatment of MSK problems (especially chronic MSK pain).

We're all entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts. That's the point of EBM, and OMM has yet to be proven useful for anything but a made up disorder (somatic dysfunction, aka bonus eruptus).

There's also no explanatory mechanism for the claims of OMM based upon any aspect of modern science.

When you see a patient come back every other week b/c OMM helps their chronic LBP and allows them to be a functional member of the society when it has close to ZERO side effect, somehow what Johnny, you or anyone else says/thinks means very little to me.

Please google "anecdotal evidence".

Again, there are LCME schools in this country which have lower GPA/MCAT averages than my and multiple other DO schools; I've personally posted them at least twice in the past year. So it is absolutely false to state that somehow the "LCME Standard" (which would then encompass all LCME schools) is higher than DO schools.

And there are FMG programs with higher stats than DO schools, ergo...

 

[scotchtapetest]

Did I say they were?

I was joking about the intern part. Interns are usually too busy to teach, and have generally forgotten most of what they learned anyway.

And you're mistaken if you think schools are the only source of effective teachers - there are many more ACGME residencies than MD schools, and almost all provide a decent educational component. Considering that didactics are built in for the residents, it doesn't take much to add on a curriculum for students or find faculty willing to teach.

I never said school was the source; However, schools are the ones arranging those lectures. Also, resident lectures are not always relevant to medical students and if they are then they are some crappy resident lectures. It is very difficult to arrange meaningful lectures for a class of 1000 (e.g. SGU) distributed across the continent.

Your feelings are wrong. Great MD programs can (and do) have the occasional crappy rotation site.

This is wrong. Seeing complex cases in medical school is great. In fact, many programs intentional shift the simple cases to non-teaching services. If you want to be a glorified NP though, by all means, KISS.

I wasn't talking about occasional sites. I'm talking about half of their student body doing at least half of their core rotations at these crappy hospitals. But they still manage to do a good job because they provide adequate educational opportunities through lectures/supervision/directions/etc.

I also didn't say medical students, I specified a particular stage of training (i.e. third year medical students) when saying that they don't need complex cases. There is a difference between admitting a CHF pt and writing notes on 25th day of hospital stay because the CHFer doesn't have a place to go (the cases that go non-teaching). I don't care how many transplant pts you have seen, if you don't know the basics of care for bread and butter CHF you are worthless.

However, fourth year, then by all means, one should get exposed to very complicated cases (assuming the third year base was adequate)...

That's true of any difference. And if the way this happens is by punishing people who are competent at math, well, that is another strike against COCA in my book.

Your point? The OP was arguing that AACOMAS GPA is always inflated because of the grade replacement and I pointed out that there are other differences that don't always work in the applicant's favor.

We're all entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts. That's the point of EBM, and OMM has yet to be proven useful for anything but a made up disorder (somatic dysfunction, aka bonus eruptus).

There's also no explanatory mechanism for the claims of OMM based upon any aspect of modern science.

Please google "anecdotal evidence".

So there is no evidence for PT? which is pretty much the same as OMT for MSK pain/issues with a little twist . Also there are s*** ton of more mainstream therapies which are used on daily basis and taught in medical schools (incl. LCME ones) that have bogus evidence and have much higher side effect profiles than OMT, which has none!

And there are FMG programs with higher stats than DO schools, ergo...

The only problem with this argument is that it's false; otherwise, great argument! and don't bother citing their websites because they use an interesting branch of mathematics to calculate their stats (e.g. counting the highest sub-score from all MCAT attempts/only including those who didn't drop out/etc.). It is the same branch UVM uses to advertise themselves as top 5 IM residency on SDN

*Assuming by "FMG programs" you are referring to schools outside of US that use MCAT as their basis for admission as others don't really count and no one cares about b/c GPA is totally BS (depends on major/school/etc.).

 

[deleted103644]

I never said school was the source; However, schools are the ones arranging those lectures. Also, resident lectures are not always relevant to medical students and if they are then they are some crappy resident lectures. It is very difficult to arrange meaningful lectures for a class of 1000 (e.g. SGU) distributed across the continent.

You clearly don't understand how rotations work (at any school, foreign/domestic, MD/DO).

The central educational part of the rotation is spending time with a preceptor (aka on-site teaching attending) to supplement your time working with hospital staff, faculty and patients.

Some rotations may have centralized lectures, but these are a minor part of your education and generally serve just to detract from your patient care experience. They could easily be video lectures.

I wasn't talking about occasional sites. I'm talking about half of their student body doing at least half of their core rotations at these crappy hospitals. But they still manage to do a good job because they provide adequate educational opportunities through lectures/supervision/directions/etc.

You vastly overestimate how supervised rotations are.

I also didn't say medical students, I specified a particular stage of training (i.e. third year medical students) when saying that they don't need complex cases. There is a difference between admitting a CHF pt and writing notes on 25th day of hospital stay because the CHFer doesn't have a place to go (the cases that go non-teaching). I don't care how many transplant pts you have seen, if you don't know the basics of care for bread and butter CHF you are worthless.


However, fourth year, then by all means, one should get exposed to very complicated cases (assuming the third year base was adequate)...

You really do not understand rotations at all. This is understandable because you haven't been on them yet, but really, you've got them all wrong.

You don't work with progressively sicker pts as you get more experience. Rather, you get more responsibility. The pts you get are luck of the draw.

And the decision which service pts go to is made when they arrive, not on the 25th day of the hospitalization (assuming they really do need to stay in a hospital bed).

MS3s follow a few patients, prepare educational presentations on various topics, show and tell pts to a preceptor.

MS4s are interns with smaller caps and more limited order privileges.

Your point? The OP was arguing that AACOMAS GPA is always inflated because of the grade replacement and I pointed out that there are other difference that don't always work in the applicant's favor.

Yes, grade replacement is always inflationary.

So there is no evidence for PT? which is pretty much the same as OMT for MSK pain/issues with a little twist . Also there are s*** ton of more mainstream therapies which are used on daily basis and taught in medical schools (incl. LCME ones) that have bogus evidence and have much higher side effect profiles than OMT, which has none!

Plenty of evidence that getting a pt to walk and move in general is beneficial. Specific PT movements? Not as much. The key difference is that PTs never claimed to cure PNA with manipulations alone.

The only problem with this argument is that it's false; otherwise, great argument! and don't bother citing their websites because they use an interesting branch of mathematics to calculate their stats (e.g. counting the highest sub-score from all MCAT attempts/only including those who didn't drop out/etc.)

*Assuming by "FMG programs" you are referring to schools outside of US that use MCAT as their basis for admission as others don't really count b/c GPA is totally BS (depends on major/school/etc.).

So it's false, but I don't get to quote numbers?

SGU averages MCAT 28, GPA 3.34. That's competitive with DO programs.

And I'm sure Sackler and the other niche schools have higher averages.

 

[DrWily]

So, wasn't this thread about a book?

 

[scotchtapetest]

You really do not understand rotations at all. This is understandable because you haven't been on them yet, but really, you've got them all wrong.

Like all of your other posts, you are 100% accurate on this one. I somehow managed to be an intern without being on rotations I wished that was the case.

You don't work with progressively sicker pts as you get more experience. Rather, you get more responsibility. The pts you get are luck of the draw.

Interesting, so at your school, they placed MS3s on MICU/CCU/Cards/BMT services even before their core Medicine rotation? That's certainly an interesting approach!

Plenty of evidence that getting a pt to walk and move in general is beneficial. Specific PT movements? Not as much. The key difference is that PTs never claimed to cure PNA with manipulations alone.

Had you read my post, I only defended OMM techniques for MSK issues.

So it's false, but I don't get to quote numbers?

SGU averages MCAT 28, GPA 3.34. That's competitive with DO programs.

And I'm sure Sackler and the other niche schools have higher averages.

Dude not even close.... not for SGU not for Sackler and not for any other foreign school using MCAT. What I love about it is that SGU claims only a 27 and you gave them a 28... Love it.... Obviously, both 27 and 28 are bogus numbers for SGU.... To put it in term you'd understand, it would be impossible to not get into SGU as long as you can pay their tuition and sign your name.

But at least with this one you sealed the deal for everyone else who will read this thread about either your ignorance or blatant bias against DOs (or bias in favor of IMGs) [as if that wasn't already clear from your post history]. Therefore, giving me a reason to going back to ignoring your posts! Good Luck with internship

 

[SpecterGT260]

Ok, back from the last night of weeknight freedom that I can envision and now I can address this using a proper keyboard

As if all MD sites are the same... Let's not BS each other!



Yes their "formal didactics" which only exists (if it exists at all at some sites) if there is another US school around that they could piggyback on and the "pimping" by the intern because we (especially you and I) know how effective of a teacher an intern is Thanks for proving my point!

Again it's not about the site it's about education. If you want to go down that route there is at least one of these top 20 schools in your favorite city that send its kids out to some really s**** sites in NJ. However, I have a feeling that they still get a pretty good education because there is adequate supervision even though the hospital sucks.

A third year medical student doesn't need to see any complex cases; in fact, what they need is bread and butter cases but with constant supervision, direction, feedback and didactics.

none of this applies to me!

1) AACOMAS does have grade replacement but what is and is not considered "science" is not the same as AMCAS. So, for instance in my case, my AACOMAS sGPA was lower than my AMCAS sGPA. So it doesn't always work in your favor!

2) One problem with internists (or in my case future internist) is that we have a very good long term memory and I distinctly remember you posting in the past about how you were about to go to that DO school but then you got your MD acceptance, blah blah blah... So at best you are being misleading about your past intentions

I gotta be honest with you, your n=1 account, while riveting, doesnt do much to counter the idea that DO schools allow grade replacement and also have lower cGPA remember, bala, I dont have a straight hard on for hating DOs like some guys do.... my issue comes from the logical absurdities that arise in the discussion and the underdog is usually the most guilty... it just happens that way.. Either way, having grade replacement and also having a lower cGPA (and therefore your cGPA doesnt really matter) is somewhat meaningful.

Specter, buddy, you were doing so good for few months... what happened to you?

The attempt rule is set by each state NOT by the NBME so it has nothing to do with LCME/NBME. Each STATE has their own laws. If you don't like it, write your congressperson. The biggest reason this rule even exists, is mostly because of FMGs; There are no DO FMGs so we don't have to worry about it. Also as mentioned earlier, NBOME is now imposing a limit on number of attempts which would BY YOUR DEFINITION make it stricter than NBME (Although I don't think the limit makes any difference either way).

Ok, it is important to understand the context of my post..... It doesnt matter who is responsible for the policy at this point. The fact remains that the policy is more lax for DO students (until 2016). ALL medical committees are interested in making things as easy for their "peeps" as possible..... so I am not faulting the NBME - but the statement about quality control stands - and it will also be important to remember that qualtiy control is not the same as quality, so I am not making a statement about the quality of DO education

Again, there are lot of great MD programs that exceed the quality of all DO schools. Nobody is debating that. But let's be real; there are also more than a few (let's say subpar) MD programs and I know at least my alma mater provided me with a higher quality education than those schools. So this whole QC BS doesn't fly across the board and it is very school dependent not LCME dependent. Your argument may have been true 20-30 years ago but with the class expansions and students being shipped all across the state for rotations, it is no longer true.

honestly brudduh, you must be tired from dem long hours this is irrelevant.
IMO the statement by myself here is a DO positive one. The DO governing body is tightening the reigns. This doesnt bode well for the average pre-med, but it bodes well for the profession also, the comment makes no attempt to discuss the spectrum of quality in MD schools. If you were to look back, I also make note that LCME schools have minimums of 24s and 3.0s in explicit writing so the "governing body dictated stats" are not what drives matriculation

Nobody is here to convince you or Johnny of pros and cons of OMM. You and everyone else are entitled to your opinions. As someone who has OMM training, I will tell you that it is a great tool for treatment of MSK problems (especially chronic MSK pain).

When you see a patient come back every other week b/c OMM helps their chronic LBP and allows them to be a functional member of the society when it has close to ZERO side effect, somehow what Johnny, you or anyone else says/thinks means very little to me.

you misunderstand me. OMM for LBP or MSK issues are (even with my lack of training) IMO awesome. As long as we are talking symptomatic - because that is all I have seen. However, the AOA is hell bent on proving efficacy in a number of areas that make no physiological sense, and publish a number of papers which would be pinned up at any legitimate journal editorial department as an example of "what not to ever do, ever, no seriously we may actually hunt you down if you try this" section

Again, there are LCME schools in this country which have lower GPA/MCAT averages than my and multiple other DO schools; I've personally posted them at least twice in the past year. So it is absolutely false to state that somehow the "LCME Standard" (which would then encompass all LCME schools) is higher than DO schools.

ok you absolutely misunderstood this one...... My post here to jonathan was to say that any discrepancies in scores are easily explained away per the input of another poster: that supply and demand over the title alone could explain it. Basically I was only saying the Johnny made a bad point (and there I hit my shrug quota in order to make hemmorhhazzge happy.... couldnt remember how he misspelled his own name so I figured it didnt matter )

That study was done at ONE school comparing some ridiculously small number of students at that ONE school. Had I quoted an OMM study with same designs you would've been all over my case!

Licensing requirements are set by the state (see above) and if you still have problems, I strongly encourage you to write your congressperson!

I know it was..... That is why I stated that it is largely debated. However it still exists as the only (and therefore best) attempt to reconcile the two. The fact that it is AOA has got to sting a little bit. My comment makes no attempt to quantify an individual, but rather just points out why the argument that I was addressing at the time needs to be better informed. Per the input of a number of sources (the AOA included) such an easy "write off" isnt really appropriate

I agree with above!

Why thank you. In the off chance I end up interviewing in your neck of the woods some day, allow me to buy you a pint. We can yell at each other until the barkeep throws us out

 

[SpecterGT260]

So, wasn't this thread about a book?

 

[SpecterGT260]

So it's false, but I don't get to quote numbers?

SGU averages MCAT 28, GPA 3.34. That's competitive with DO programs.

And I'm sure Sackler and the other niche schools have higher averages.

whoa yeah dude this isnt right...... SGU is in the high teens if you take everything into account (IIRC....)... some of their published numbers are "of those who graduated" of which they have a very heavy hand in determining. Honestly 28 is low MD numbers.... are you drunk? do you think there are this number of applicants with high 20s who simply couldnt find a US home who went to the carib? Your numbers are way off here man.....

 

[Mr Kenobi]

Like all of your other posts, you are 100% accurate on this one. I somehow managed to be an intern without being on rotations I wished that was the case.



Interesting, so at your school, they placed MS3s on MICU/CCU/Cards/BMT services even before their core Medicine rotation? That's certainly an interesting approach!



Had you read my post, I only defended OMM techniques for MSK issues.





Dude not even close.... not for SGU not for Sackler and not for any other foreign school using MCAT. What I love about it is that SGU claims only a 27 and you gave them a 28... Love it.... Obviously, both 27 and 28 are bogus numbers for SGU.... To put it in term you'd understand, it would be impossible to not get into SGU as long as you can pay their tuition and sign your name.

But at least with this one you sealed the deal for everyone else who will read this thread about either your ignorance or blatant bias against DOs (or bias in favor of IMGs) [as if that wasn't already clear from your post history]. Therefore, giving me a reason to going back to ignoring your posts! Good Luck with internship

 

[scotchtapetest]

I gotta be honest with you, your n=1 account, while riveting, doesnt do much to counter the idea that DO schools allow grade replacement and also have lower cGPA remember, bala, I dont have a straight hard on for hating DOs like some guys do.... my issue comes from the logical absurdities that arise in the discussion and the underdog is usually the most guilty... it just happens that way.. Either way, having grade replacement and also having a lower cGPA (and therefore your cGPA doesnt really matter) is somewhat meaningful.

All I was saying (to rephrase): Even though grade replacement exists (which helps some applicants) the way the GPAs are calculated (e.g. considering what is and is not science), is different, therefore, the AACOMAS GPA is NOT always higher than AMCAS GPA. It is already established that overall GPA is lower for DO schools.

Ok, it is important to understand the context of my post..... It doesnt matter who is responsible for the policy at this point. The fact remains that the policy is more lax for DO students (until 2016). ALL medical committees are interested in making things as easy for their "peeps" as possible..... so I am not faulting the NBME - but the statement about quality control stands - and it will also be important to remember that qualtiy control is not the same as quality, so I am not making a statement about the quality of DO education

Just making up extra requirements doesn't necessarily equal higher quality. The number attempt or maximum years limit has very little to do with quality and effects at most a fraction of a percent on both sides (FMGs excluded). As I mentioned in my post, this policy is mainly aimed at FMGs (we don't have them). The vast majority (if not all) DO schools expel students with more than so many attempts (therefore preventing licensure). I believe so do MD schools (I could be wrong). So it is a non-issue for American grads and you are trying to turn it into an issue.

you misunderstand me. OMM for LBP or MSK issues are (even with my lack of training) IMO awesome. As long as we are talking symptomatic - because that is all I have seen. However, the AOA is hell bent on proving efficacy in a number of areas that make no physiological sense, and publish a number of papers which would be pinned up at any legitimate journal editorial department as an example of "what not to ever do, ever, no seriously we may actually hunt you down if you try this" section

Pain by definition is a symptom, therefore addressing LBP or chronic pain is providing symptomatic relief.

I know it was..... That is why I stated that it is largely debated. However it still exists as the only (and therefore best) attempt to reconcile the two. The fact that it is AOA has got to sting a little bit. My comment makes no attempt to quantify an individual, but rather just points out why the argument that I was addressing at the time needs to be better informed. Per the input of a number of sources (the AOA included) such an easy "write off" isnt really appropriate

It was published in an AOA journal; The AOA wasn't responsible for its content and didn't sponsor or perform the study. It was a study by a random professor at ONE school.

Why thank you. In the off chance I end up interviewing in your neck of the woods some day, allow me to buy you a pint. We can yell at each other until the barkeep throws us out

Looking forward to it

 

[SpecterGT260]

All I was saying (to rephrase): Even though grade replacement exists (which helps some applicants) the way the GPAs are calculated (e.g. considering what is and is not science), is different, therefore, the AACOMAS GPA is NOT always higher than AMCAS GPA. It is already established that overall GPA is lower for DO schools.

then where is the problem? The post I was responding to insinuated that AMCAS GPA was higher only because of grade replacement. I wasnt saying anything other than "dont throw your lot behind the grade replacement argument.... grade replacement + a lower cGPA doesnt defend your position"

Just making up extra requirements doesn't necessarily equal higher quality. The number attempt or maximum years limit has very little to do with quality and affects at most a fraction of a percent on both sides (FMGs excluded). As I mentioned in my post, this policy is mainly aimed at FMGs (we don't have them). The vast majority (if not all) DO schools expel students with more than so many attempts (therefore preventing licensure). I believe so do MD schools (I could be wrong). So it is non-issue for American grads and you are trying to turn into an issue.

Then you dont understand the QC argument. I worked in industry for a couple of years and got well acquainted with it. If DO schools apply their own "QC" in these situations then that is a valid talking point. but according to the state, it is easier to become a licensed physician as a floundering DO than it is to become one as a floundering MD

Pain by definition is a symptom, therefore addressing LBP or chronic pain is providing symptomatic relief.

I have to assume your life as an FM intern has made you tired.... otherwise you are FoxNews-ing my post. I said I have no qualms with LBP or MSK treatments using OMM. My issue is with things like the cranial gurus telling a room full of wide-eyed med students that he can accurately palpate the #2 text off a pencil through a phone book. That has happened..... I say trim the fat and keep the good. I feel like this is a reasonable stance to take.

It was published in an AOA journal; The AOA wasn't responsible for its content and didn't sponsor or perform the study. It was a study by a random professor at ONE school.

irrelevant. It was JAOA. If JAMA was to publish an article claiming that DO schools were equal in every way to MD, I really don't think you would be so critical. The point is, I mentioned beforehand that the findings were debatable - and were therefore not central to the point. The point remains that the DOs have a separate scoring system and a separate match. You cannot claim equivalency (even if it is true) until you have actually competed on an equal stage To bring it to a closer to home (and slightly more girly) point of reference, can Jordan Weber claim olympic gold for the all-around because she is the current world champion (competed against the same people) but was excluded from the competition in london because of a technicality even though placing above other countries entries? The point is, equivalency may have been there, but can you really claim it if you havent competed?

Looking forward to it

its a date!

 

[scotchtapetest]

Then you dont understand the QC argument. I worked in industry for a couple of years and got well acquainted with it. If DO schools apply their own "QC" in these situations then that is a valid talking point. but according to the state, it is easier to become a licensed physician as a floundering DO than it is to become one as a floundering MD

1) Don't assume you are the only one with QC experience.

2) One of your controls is irrelevant, in this case almost* all DO schools prevent graduating with more than so many attempts, therefore having this particular control at the licensing board makes very little difference.

*I use "almost all" because I'm not aware of every school's policy, but all those that I am aware of, have a firm policy in place.

3) NOT all states have a limit on USLMLE attempts/years (e.g. DE, Fl, KY, PA) and many others have only rules about step 3 or limit it to 10 years.

4) In 2016 YOU must come back and criticize the states that have higher than a 6 yr limit (almost all of them) for USMLE for making MD licensing "easier" than DO.

5) As I said, it's a non-issue.

I have to assume your life as an FM intern has made you tired.... otherwise you are FoxNews-ing my post. I said I have no qualms with LBP or MSK treatments using OMM. My issue is with things like the cranial gurus telling a room full of wide-eyed med students that he can accurately palpate the #2 text off a pencil through a phone book. That has happened..... I say trim the fat and keep the good. I feel like this is a reasonable stance to take.

1) I'm in IM.

2) I was agreeing with your post, but you were qualifying my post so I had to respond (doesn't matter, we agree)...

irrelevant. It was JAOA. If JAMA was to publish an article claiming that DO schools were equal in every way to MD, I really don't think you would be so critical. The point is, I mentioned beforehand that the findings were debatable - and were therefore not central to the point. The point remains that the DOs have a separate scoring system and a separate match. You cannot claim equivalency (even if it is true) until you have actually competed on an equal stage

1) I can't care less about what JAMA says about DO (good or bad). They are not the authority for DO education/profession and would never quote them regarding anything DO.

2) I can claim equivalency based on state laws (all 50 of them) that license me as such! As we've had this discussion before, by definition equivalency is not the same as equality.

 

[SpecterGT260]

1) Don't assume you are the only one with QC experience.

2) One of your controls is irrelevant, in this case almost* all DO schools prevent graduating with more than so many attempts, therefore having this particular control at the licensing board makes very little difference.

*I use "almost all" because I'm not aware of every school's policy, but all those that I am aware of, have a firm policy in place.

3) NOT all states have a limit on USLMLE attempts/years (e.g. DE, Fl, KY, PA) and many others have only rules about step 3 or limit it to 10 years.

4) In 2016 YOU must come back and criticize the states that have higher than a 6 yr limit (almost all of them) for USMLE for making MD licensing "easier" than DO.

5) As I said, it's a non-issue.



1) I'm in IM.

2) I was agreeing with your post, but you were qualifying my post so I had to respond (doesn't matter, we agree)...




1) I can care less what JAMA says about DO (good or bad). They are not the authority for DO education/profession and would never quote them regarding anything DO.

2) I can claim equivalency based on state laws (all 50 of them) that license me as such! As we've had this discussion before, by definition equivalency is not the same as equality.

Given our pattern of reducing number of subquotes.... I win! you can't respond again!

 

[deleted103644]

http://etalk.sgu.edu/faqs/medfaq.pdf

2008 Average Stats:

9/9/10

If they're blatantly lying, so be it. They list this as being the averages of North American matriculants in 2008.

 

[deleted103644]

Interesting, so at your school, they placed MS3s on MICU/CCU/Cards/BMT services even before their core Medicine rotation? That's certainly an interesting approach!

As an intern, you would obviously recognize what I was referring to as contrasting MS3 and with a subinternship on the same service.

Obviously you require medicine before ICU, surgery before ENT, etc, but frankly although ICU patients are more acute, management there is often more straightforward.

Had you read my post, I only defended OMM techniques for MSK issues.

Had you read my post, you would realize I do not consider it proven for those as well.

Dude not even close.... not for SGU not for Sackler and not for any other foreign school using MCAT. What I love about it is that SGU claims only a 27 and you gave them a 28... Love it.... Obviously, both 27 and 28 are bogus numbers for SGU.... To put it in term you'd understand, it would be impossible to not get into SGU as long as you can pay their tuition and sign your name.

But at least with this one you sealed the deal for everyone else who will read this thread about either your ignorance or blatant bias against DOs (or bias in favor of IMGs) [as if that wasn't already clear from your post history]. Therefore, giving me a reason to going back to ignoring your posts! Good Luck with internship

See my above post. You may question the SGU numbers, but Sackler is definitely there or higher.

And yes, I do know people who did that over a low tier MD.

 

[HalfListic]

Like all of your other posts, you are 100% accurate on this one. I somehow managed to be an intern without being on rotations I wished that was the case.



Interesting, so at your school, they placed MS3s on MICU/CCU/Cards/BMT services even before their core Medicine rotation? That's certainly an interesting approach!



Had you read my post, I only defended OMM techniques for MSK issues.





Dude not even close.... not for SGU not for Sackler and not for any other foreign school using MCAT. What I love about it is that SGU claims only a 27 and you gave them a 28... Love it.... Obviously, both 27 and 28 are bogus numbers for SGU.... To put it in term you'd understand, it would be impossible to not get into SGU as long as you can pay their tuition and sign your name.

But at least with this one you sealed the deal for everyone else who will read this thread about either your ignorance or blatant bias against DOs (or bias in favor of IMGs) [as if that wasn't already clear from your post history]. Therefore, giving me a reason to going back to ignoring your posts! Good Luck with internship