Why go to a top medical school?

[deleted1108964]

Clearly trying to avoid accepting the truth at any cost, even though I also provided 2 other links, one of which is NOT consulting and one directly from the NRMP. BTW, since you refuse to read the articles (because they prove the reality and you don't want to accept that), the Shemmassian Consulting in general successfully gets students admitted into top medical schools, and everything they say in the article is directly from data reported by residency programs.

The NRMP link is a well-known survey. Surveys all happen to be literally the worst form of evidence you can use for a deduction, ever. Also, it proves literally nothing. "Prestige of MD Program" is cited by ~50% of PDs with ~4 importance rating for all residencies. I'll let you in on a spoiler, a big secret here. The only reason it's cited by only 50% of PDs is because 80% of schools don't have the luxury of caring about the prestigious graduates because they don't apply there anyway, so PDs just don't even consider it. Further, an important factor of 3.6 still implies many people put it at a rating of 5, as well as lower than 3. I wonder what schools put it at 5? (another spoiler: the top ones).

Also, your other link is literally written by a current trainee who went to a T10 med school and now goes to a top program (lol).

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[preMedFalcon]

Also, your other link is literally written by a current trainee who went to a T10 med school and now goes to a top program (lol).

And yet he is agreeing that school prestige is not that important, despite attending one himself.

Are you finished arguing yet? Please tell me you are. I could easily counter everything you just posted, but this debate is getting exhausting and I'd rather it be over.

 

[jadfaweradfasd]

The NRMP link is a well-known survey. Surveys all happen to be literally the worst form of evidence you can use for a deduction, ever. Also, it proves literally nothing. "Prestige of MD Program" is cited by ~50% of PDs with ~4 importance rating for all residencies. I'll let you in on a spoiler, a big secret here. The only reason it's cited by only 50% of PDs is because 80% of schools don't have the luxury of caring about the prestigious graduates because they don't apply there anyway, so PDs just don't even consider it. Further, an important factor of 3.6 still implies many people put it at a rating of 5, as well as lower than 3. I wonder what schools put it at 5? (another spoiler: the top ones).

Also, your other link is literally written by a current trainee who went to a T10 med school and now goes to a top program (lol).

100% agree. As I mentioned before, prestige is particularly important at the top academic residency programs as they have dozens of applicants with 250+ step 1, AOA, publications, etc. Therefore, school prestige is one of the few differentiating factors left. MGH IM still has a lot of residents from non top-20 schools. They are simply excellent applicants in other ways.

 

[Bored_Conscious]

In medical school, there are thousands of students from low-tier to high-tier that are all extraordinarily qualified socially, mentally, academically, etc.

So, in this hypothetical situation, let's say that there is a school trying to pick 10 orthopedic residents. 5 of them are from "top-tier" schools and 5 of them are from "low-tier schools". They all passed their step exams successfully, have plenty of research hours and publication, great letter of rec from faculty, etc. On top of that, let's say that these final 10 candidates are also all emotionally and mentally adept. If the hospital had to pick 4 of the candidates...who would they choose? It would not be surprising to me to see that hospital choose ONLY the top residents.

What you are arguing is fundamentally useless. I agree that with everything laid out on the table: exam scores, research, publications, conferences, faculty letters, school name, etc.

School name would probably be at the bottom of the list. However, what do you do when you are left with "X" number of individuals, all with incredible stats, letters, etc. You look at school name. Might as well! That is the final means of comparison and, as a result, amongst a few qualified applicants, those with better school names will get into residency more easily. It really is as simple as that.

If this doesn't make sense. I am incredible impressed. Mr. premedFalcon...I award you a PhD in Copology!

 

[Bored_Conscious]

100% agree. As I mentioned before, prestige is particularly important at the top academic residency programs as they have dozens of applicants with 250+ step 1, AOA, publications, etc. Therefore, school prestige is one of the few differentiating factors left. MGH IM still has a lot of residents from non top-20 schools. They are simply excellent applicants in other ways.

Oh wow! It's like you read my mind!

 

[preMedFalcon]

In medical school, there are thousands of students from low-tier to high-tier that are all extraordinarily qualified socially, mentally, academically, etc.

So, in this hypothetical situation, let's say that there is a school trying to pick 10 orthopedic residents. 5 of them are from "top-tier" schools and 5 of them are from "low-tier schools". They all passed their step exams successfully, have plenty of research hours and publication, great letter of rec from faculty, etc. On top of that, let's say that these final 10 candidates are also all emotionally and mentally adept. If the hospital had to pick 4 of the candidates...who would they choose? It would not be surprising to me to see that hospital choose ONLY the top residents.

What you are arguing is fundamentally useless. I agree that with everything laid out on the table: exam scores, research, publications, conferences, faculty letters, school name, etc.

School name would probably be at the bottom of the list. However, what do you do when you are left with "X" number of individuals, all with incredible stats, letters, etc. You look at school name. Might as well! That is the final means of comparison and, as a result, amongst a few qualified applicants, those with better school names will get into residency more easily. It really is as simple as that.

If this doesn't make sense. I am incredible impressed. Mr. premedFalcon...I award you a PhD in Copology!

In this extremely rare scenario where all applicants are essentially exactly the same, then yes, school prestige would be the differentiating factor. But then again, what if all applicants are from T5 schools? How would you differentiate them then? Flip a coin?

 

[jadfaweradfasd]

In this extremely rare scenario where all applicants are essentially exactly the same, then yes, school prestige would be the differentiating factor. But then again, what if all applicants are from T5 schools? How would you differentiate them then? Flip a coin?

There are still some other factors. For example, if a residency program has already taken students from one of those T5 school and that resident has been excellent, applicants from that medical school will have an advantage. Programs like known commodities. Strong connections, such as research with faculty in the department, a strong away rotation, and a phone call advocating for the applicant, will help as well.

 

[preMedFalcon]

For how much longer are you guys going to keep arguing about this?

 

[Bored_Conscious]

In this extremely rare scenario where all applicants are essentially exactly the same, then yes, school prestige would be the differentiating factor. But then again, what if all applicants are from T5 schools? How would you differentiate them then? Flip a coin?

LOL. Don't get it twisted my friend. I never said "essentially exactly the same". It is not at all unrealistic, as you seem to believe it is, that applicants to a top ranking residency program all have incredible stats and accomplishments. (If you can read between the lines...you will see I never said "essentially the exact same").

There comes a point in time where school name will be taken a look at to differentiate candidates. When it comes to that point, then it really does matter.

 

[preMedFalcon]

It is not at all unrealistic, as you seem to believe it is, that applicants to a top ranking residency program all have incredible stats and accomplishments.

Now you're twisting my words. Obviously that is not unrealistic. What is unrealistic is for every applicant to have the exact same exam scores, same strength in LOR's, same research experience, same publications, etc. But in the extremely unlikely scenario that each of these are the same, then school prestige will definitely matter. All applicants can be strong but still have very different backgrounds and resumes.

There comes a point in time where school name will be taken a look at to differentiate candidates. When it comes to that point, then it really does matter.

That point is very rare, but if it comes to that, then yes, obviously.

 

[preMedFalcon]

And as I'll repeat again, if you think about it logically, why would residency programs prefer graduates from top school? Just because you went to a top school doesn't automatically mean you'll be the best at their program and will be the best doctor ever. It makes much more sense to prioritize the performance of the individual student rather than the prestige of their school's name.

 

[Bored_Conscious]

Now you're twisting my words. Obviously that is not unrealistic. What is unrealistic is for every applicant to have the exact same exam scores, same strength in LOR's, same research experience, same publications, etc. But in the extremely unlikely scenario that each of these are the same, then school prestige will definitely matter. All applicants can be strong but still have very different backgrounds and resumes.

Once again, I never proposed such an unrealistic situation. You seem to be missing the point.

When it comes to the point where "All applicants [are] strong but still have very different backgrounds and resumes" then school name will start to matter more.

That is all I have to say. Hope you find the conclusion you are wishing for in this thread. Good luck as a future applicant.

 

[preMedFalcon]

Once again, I never proposed such an unrealistic situation. You seem to be missing the point.

When it comes to the point where "All applicants [are] strong but still have very different backgrounds and resumes" then school name will start to matter more.

That is all I have to say. Hope you find the conclusion you are wishing for in this thread. Good luck as a future applicant.

My conclusion was simply to understand everyone's opinion on why go to a top medical school with already knowing that school prestige is not that important for residency. However, I made a big mistake in failing to predict that everyone will argue that school prestige is very important while I already know that is wrong. I made another big mistake in continuing to argue instead of just letting you people think what you want. And hence, here we are.

Apologies for my mistakes (I am human and I make them, believe it or not ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ), and best of luck to you too, and I hope you get into the medical school of your choice. I hope this brings an end to this debate which at this point seems never-ending.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

seems like lot of ex speech and debate competitors here

 

[doomer_md]

School name would probably be at the bottom of the list. However, what do you do when you are left with "X" number of individuals, all with incredible stats, letters, etc. You look at school name. Might as well!

In this extremely rare scenario where all applicants are essentially exactly the same, then yes, school prestige would be the differentiating factor. But then again, what if all applicants are from T5 schools? How would you differentiate them then? Flip a coin?

They should do what any sensible person would do.






Pick the most physically attractive applicants.

 

[gyngyn]

This thread is being closed because it has reached its predictable end.

 

[deleted936268]

And yet he is agreeing that school prestige is not that important, despite attending one himself.

Are you finished arguing yet? Please tell me you are. I could easily counter everything you just posted, but this debate is getting exhausting and I'd rather it be over.

Moderator note: tensions can be high, here's a picture of two cats getting along.

 

[Moko]

This thread is now closed. Thank you for reading