Why is Allopathic school favored over Osteopathic?

[DeterminedDoc]

You do realize that you can't say the opposite either, correct?

Im not trying to say the opposite either. My point is that you can't say that DO = MD when it is harder to get into an allo school compared to an osteo school. Yes, getting into an Osteo school isn't easy either, but when you compare MD and DO students, MD students obviously have more of what it takes since that is what they evaluate when you apply to med school.

I don't know if all DOs are WORSE than MDs. Nor am I saying that every DO out there is incapable. Compared to MDs, they are less capable, otherwise there wouldn't be a difference in the admission standards or the quality of students.

I think someone who realizes early on what it takes to be successful and puts in the effort deserves more respect and is obviously better at handling things than someone (aka me) who screwed up for a long time before waking up.

At the end of the day we may both be doctors, but its the road we took thats different. Someone who has managed to have less roadblocks to success is inherently more successful than someone who had to go through hell and slog away to end up at the same exact place. This is precisely my point as the difference between MD and DO.

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[ashah0224]

The bottom line: Allopathic [MD] is superior to Osteopathic [DO] because there is more market. Drugs are diven by Pharmaceutics, Politics, R&D, and much much more compared to Osteopathic. There is more money involved in it.

The person who criticizes allopathic or osteopathic is not fit to be a doctor because they have no idea what medicine is about.

Because allopathy has more market for profit expectations will increase and competition will increase. Thats it. To overanalyze this means you have too much time and paranoia.

BTW for the most part MBBS students from india are far superior to US Allopathic medical students. To criticize the schools and practices and 3rd world country and bla bla would be stupid and blasphemous. Because the bottom line is that they have more clinical experience and analytical skills than most us med students are taught. Thats just how it is.

However, I know that the people posting in this thread will likely keep destroying this topic because they have nothing better to do with their time. Go figure.

Good luck. Keep beating the dead horse - your muscles will serve you well in clinical medicine.

btw, this is not directed towards "DeterminedDoc" specifically, but everybody in this particular thread

Im not trying to say the opposite either. My point is that you can't say that DO = MD when it is harder to get into an allo school compared to an osteo school. Yes, getting into an Osteo school isn't easy either, but when you compare MD and DO students, MD students obviously have more of what it takes since that is what they evaluate when you apply to med school.

I don't know if all DOs are WORSE than MDs. Nor am I saying that every DO out there is incapable. Compared to MDs, they are less capable, otherwise there wouldn't be a difference in the admission standards or the quality of students.

I think someone who realizes early on what it takes to be successful and puts in the effort deserves more respect and is obviously better at handling things than someone (aka me) who screwed up for a long time before waking up.

At the end of the day we may both be doctors, but its the road we took thats different. Someone who has managed to have less roadblocks to success is inherently more successful than someone who had to go through hell and slog away to end up at the same exact place. This is precisely my point as the difference between MD and DO.

 

[DeterminedDoc]

The bottom line: Allopathic [MD] is superior to Osteopathic [DO] because there is more market. Drugs are diven by Pharmaceutics, Politics, R&D, and much much more compared to Osteopathic. There is more money involved in it.

The person who criticizes allopathic or osteopathic is not fit to be a doctor because they have no idea what medicine is about.

Because allopathy has more market for profit expectations will increase and competition will increase. Thats it. To overanalyze this means you have too much time and paranoia.

However, I know that the people in this forum will likely keep destroying this topic because they have nothing better to do with their time. Go figure.

Good luck. Keep beating the dead horse - your muscles will serve you well in clinical medicine.

Point taken. Beating a dead horse isn't going to make it comeback to life. Who am I criticize anything or any profession? I need to have the necessary stats to back up my arguments, so yes, ill go work on that.

BTW for the most part MBBS students from india are far superior to US Allopathic medical students. To criticize the schools and practices and 3rd world country and bla bla would be stupid and blasphemous. Because the bottom line is that they have more clinical experience and analytical skills than most us med students are taught. Thats just how it is.

I agree with this, I volunteered at a hospital in India a few summers ago, and the docs there are phenomenal. They are able to assess a patient's condition very accurately without any charts/files/or scans. Of course these are referred to before making any decision but its just amazing to see their intuition at work when they analyze a patient's condition. Its definitely the result of a different education system.

 

[blizzah]

Great,

The thread's progreesion:

MD vs DO

MD and DO vs NP and PA

MD vs DO again

and now

MD vs DO vs MBBS

 

[ashah0224]

Great,

The thread's progreesion:

MD vs DO

MD and DO vs NP and PA

MD vs DO again

and now

MD vs DO vs MBBS

lol. still MD vs DO

I just wanted to throw in that fact because i was amazed at the caliber. My friends in US schools who are now residents were 'blown out of the water' by MBBS students.

 

[235788]

The bottom line: Allopathic [MD] is superior to Osteopathic [DO] because there is more market. Drugs are diven by Pharmaceutics, Politics, R&D, and much much more compared to Osteopathic. There is more money involved in it.

The person who criticizes allopathic or osteopathic is not fit to be a doctor because they have no idea what medicine is about.

Because allopathy has more market for profit expectations will increase and competition will increase. Thats it. To overanalyze this means you have too much time and paranoia.

BTW for the most part MBBS students from india are far superior to US Allopathic medical students. To criticize the schools and practices and 3rd world country and bla bla would be stupid and blasphemous. Because the bottom line is that they have more clinical experience and analytical skills than most us med students are taught. Thats just how it is.

However, I know that the people posting in this thread will likely keep destroying this topic because they have nothing better to do with their time. Go figure.

Good luck. Keep beating the dead horse - your muscles will serve you well in clinical medicine.

btw, this is not directed towards "DeterminedDoc" specifically, but everybody in this particular thread

Lol yeah right. I hear the doctor from Ghana are far superior as well. People typical knock their communication skills.

But if it were true, could it be because they are getting dinged for being an FMG and are getting mixed in with lesser caliber amiercan grads?

 

[ashah0224]

Lol yeah right. I hear the doctor from Ghana are far superior as well. People typical knock their communication skills.

I cant speak for Ghana.

Communication skills? You are just finding a point to criticize about. What matters is their medical knowledge and accuracy. Communication skills is secondary, however even that is improving ALOT.

Go find doctors in any reputable, nationally-recognized hospital and check their licenses. Everything is verifiable.

Or better yet, go try to get admission into an indian med school and pass their exams.

Even better, try to out-diagnose their clinical students.

The point is medical excellence and ability to practice as a doctor to help people. If anything else is the goal, then this forum really shouldnt be the place for it. Atleast, that is my opinion. Then again, I have these people to compete with for residency so I should go back to studying.

 

[SpecterGT260]

yeah i dont really buy that either. i know many docs say they enjoy going overseas to do doctors without borders and whatnot, and the "amazingness" of the doctors in other countries comes from them capably doing their job without all the fancy gizmos we have here. that isnt the same thing as saying they are superior students. id be interested to see pass rates for MBBS for boards as (I think) nobody can simply come to the US and start practicing with a foreign degree

EDIT: 78%, according to wiki. lower than DO. This is, however, wiki... and also lumps in all foreign other than canada.... but still

 

[ashah0224]

yeah i dont really buy that either. i know many docs say they enjoy going overseas to do doctors without borders and whatnot, and the "amazingness" of the doctors in other countries comes from them capably doing their job without all the fancy gizmos we have here. that isnt the same thing as saying they are superior students. id be interested to see pass rates for MBBS for boards as (I think) nobody can simply come to the US and start practicing with a foreign degree

In the past year the USMLE scoring has changed to reflect the new scoring statistics as alot of FMGs have been scoring 260+ from what I know. (Probably because these are the ones getting residencies.) Everybody I've come across have been scoring 240+. Probably because they have more competition.They are getting into Allopathic Residencies after passing the boards. Their issue is visa.

Nevertheless, in the MD vs DO debate, these foriegn students play a big role.

DOs, have less to worry about compared to US MDs.

EDIT: Also keep in mind, US-MD students are pretty much guaranteed a residency spot. Anybody outside US-Allopathic medical schools must go above and beyond to have a chance at residency and job as a clinical physician in USA.

 

[235788]

yeah i dont really buy that either. i know many docs say they enjoy going overseas to do doctors without borders and whatnot, and the "amazingness" of the doctors in other countries comes from them capably doing their job without all the fancy gizmos we have here. that isnt the same thing as saying they are superior students. id be interested to see pass rates for MBBS for boards as (I think) nobody can simply come to the US and start practicing with a foreign degree

EDIT: 78%, according to wiki. lower than DO. This is, however, wiki... and also lumps in all foreign other than canada.... but still

I'm sure the caribbean grads are included, So just imagine it is one SD higher.

 

[SpecterGT260]

ah, they have pass rate info for non-US or canada test takers. however not degree specific.

http://www.usmle.org/performance-data/default.aspx#2010_step-1

right table.

 

[SpecterGT260]

In the past year the USMLE scoring has changed to reflect the new scoring statistics as alot of FMGs have been scoring 260+ from what I know. (Probably because these are the ones getting residencies.) Everybody I've come across have been scoring 240+. Probably because they have more competition.They are getting into Allopathic Residencies after passing the boards. Their issue is visa.

Nevertheless, in the MD vs DO debate, these foriegn students play a big role.

DOs, have less to worry about compared to US MDs.

EDIT: Also keep in mind, US-MD students are pretty much guaranteed a residency spot. Anybody outside US-Allopathic medical schools must go above and beyond to have a chance at residency and job as a clinical physician in USA.

how do you know?

and

why?

I'm sure the caribbean grads are included, So just imagine it is one SD higher.

caribbean schools are included in the US stats (the ones that say 90's).

and no anecdotal evidence. if you already accept them as superior students it is incredibly easy to rationalize all sorts of things with no proof. if there are new stats lets see them

 

[ashah0224]

Because Osteopathic students who stick to the end-goal of osteopathic residencies have significantly less competition. I know this because i have 5 friends in osteopathic med schools who are in residencies.


As for the scores, I am a skeptic, however I know because i follow various forums other than studentdoctor.net. Unless if every single person is lying about their score and makes up some random 3 digit number, its hard not to believe what I read.

how do you know?

and

why?


caribbean schools are included in the US stats (the ones that say 90's).

and no anecdotal evidence. if you already accept them as superior students it is incredibly easy to rationalize all sorts of things with no proof. if there are new stats lets see them

You may be right about getting new evidence and stats. However it is unlikely any stats will come out. I'm going from what I have seen based on people matching into residency - which is what matters. Unless if medical students are opting for research and not clinical medicine, in which case this discussion seems pointless.

Rationalizing may be easy w/o proof. However proof is in the results. Stats wont come out because there is a stigma to prevent FMGs from coming to the USA. I could be wrong. But until I somebody can throw me statistics to prove me wrong I speak from what I see - because I've checked medical licenses of people i know and researched.

EDIT: I would love to hear from the CURRENT Residents who follow this thread.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Because Osteopathic students who stick to the end-goal of osteopathic residencies have significantly less competition. I know this because i have 5 friends in osteopathic med schools who are in residencies.





You may be right about getting new evidence and stats. However it is unlikely any stats will come out. I'm going from what I have seen based on people matching into residency - which is what matters. Unless if medical students are opting for research and not clinical medicine, in which case this discussion seems pointless.

Rationalizing may be easy w/o proof. However proof is in the results. Stats wont come out because there is a stigma to prevent FMGs from coming to the USA. I could be wrong. But until I somebody can throw me statistics to prove me wrong I speak from what I see - because I've checked medical licenses of people i know and researched.

Two indian doctors who had 99s on their boards pushed me to pursue medical school. They werent granted residency because of visa status. Me being US born I have an edge. That was their reasoning. One is now board certified in another state after 3 years and another went to England.

EDIT: I would love to hear from the CURRENT Residents who follow this thread. As for everybody here who is premed, they should go back to making sure they rock the mcats so they have a chance of getting into a US-MD school. I have my USMLE coming up, but this topic intrigues me which is why i put in my two cents in the first place.

actually... that makes sense.

that is the sort of reasoning I am looking for. Don't really care how many friends you have in that system, it just makes good sense that MBBS applicants will not compete for AOA residencies so your point is valid.


99 percentile? either way it is anecdotal. just like the REST of this thread, nobody is saying that smart people dont exist in all walks of life. however just because you are aware of two who did very well and trekked all the way to the US doesnt mean they are the norm as far as their pool goes.

basically, claiming that MBBS students are far superior to US students based on being aware of a few high scores is no different than claiming that ALL DO's are inferior to MD's based on similar logic. The only level measuring stick is the USMLE and the numbers do not support this claim. however the stats i found do not distinguish indian MBBS from congo witch doctor that I can tell.... so neither of us are working with good numbers.

I just find it hard to believe that the US system, which is driven by competition to select the brightest

• in undergrad via weeding out
• via the MCAT (just taking the test)
• med school admission standards
• within med school via course load
• and board pass rates

EACH of these processes takes already competitive people and lops off the bottom tier, with more loping happening throughout residency. Yes, most people who get into med school make it through. most. MOST!

What exactly are we lacking that the MBBS programs have that they can select a higher quality student straight out of highschool?



EDIT: your USMLE? so your info is out of date?

 

[drizzt3117]

Some FMGs are great, others are atrocious. My experience is that the quality of FMGs is far more variable than US MDs

 

[ashah0224]

actually... that makes sense.

that is the sort of reasoning I am looking for. Don't really care how many friends you have in that system, it just makes good sense that MBBS applicants will not compete for AOA residencies so your point is valid.


99 percentile? either way it is anecdotal. just like the REST of this thread, nobody is saying that smart people dont exist in all walks of life. however just because you are aware of two who did very well and trekked all the way to the US doesnt mean they are the norm as far as their pool goes.

basically, claiming that MBBS students are far superior to US students based on being aware of a few high scores is no different than claiming that ALL DO's are inferior to MD's based on similar logic. The only level measuring stick is the USMLE and the numbers do not support this claim. however the stats i found do not distinguish indian MBBS from congo witch doctor that I can tell.... so neither of us are working with good numbers.




I just find it hard to believe that the US system, which is driven by competition to select the brightest

• in undergrad via weeding out
• via the MCAT (just taking the test)
• med school admission standards
• within med school via course load
• and board pass rates

EACH of these processes takes already competitive people and lops off the bottom tier, with more loping happening throughout residency. Yes, most people who get into med school make it through. most. MOST!

What exactly are we lacking that the MBBS programs have that they can select a higher quality student straight out of highschool?



EDIT: your USMLE? so your info is out of date?

I meant to say "from medical school and in residency currently"

Yes, my information is out of date. I was trying to edit that out. Oh well.

I wish i could answer your last question, but I really dont know. I dont know about other countries. In India it is immensely competitive, almost cutthroat, compared to US med school applications. And the system is improving fast to adapt 'western' allopathic trends and communication skills.

To keep the topic on point though, the message is that US Allopathic is far more dominant to Osteopathic. Allopathic Residency is the main goal for most people.

What matters is what is relevant. And what is relevant is who is succeeding in the match and getting into residency in USA. The pool they come from does not matter. However I agree performance can be variable.

A person who goes to Loma Linda and is at the bottom of their class after 4 years will have a residency and will be called a doctor and will have had a much less stressful experience (probably easier too) compared to students from osteopathic, carib, or true FMGs.

 

[drizzt3117]

I will say that most FMGs ae better trained in physical diagnosis than US grads of all types. Medicine in this country is geared towards image and laboratory guided diagnosis and treatment with high levels of sub-specialization. We depend far more on our technology and the literature than foreign trained doctors. Whether this is good or bad is in the eyes of the beholder.

 

[ensuii]

The bottom line: Allopathic [MD] is superior to Osteopathic [DO] because there is more market. Drugs are diven by Pharmaceutics, Politics, R&D, and much much more compared to Osteopathic. There is more money involved in it.

The person who criticizes allopathic or osteopathic is not fit to be a doctor because they have no idea what medicine is about.

Because allopathy has more market for profit expectations will increase and competition will increase. Thats it. To overanalyze this means you have too much time and paranoia.

BTW for the most part MBBS students from india are far superior to US Allopathic medical students. To criticize the schools and practices and 3rd world country and bla bla would be stupid and blasphemous. Because the bottom line is that they have more clinical experience and analytical skills than most us med students are taught. Thats just how it is.

However, I know that the people posting in this thread will likely keep destroying this topic because they have nothing better to do with their time. Go figure.

Good luck. Keep beating the dead horse - your muscles will serve you well in clinical medicine.

btw, this is not directed towards "DeterminedDoc" specifically, but everybody in this particular thread

As someone who has more experience (employment and research) in applied economics than medicine, I know where you're coming but trust me, it just doesn't work like this in real life. If you're specifically thinking about the political ideology of allopathy versus osteopathy then I'd certainly agree with you but there's a pretty big disconnect between the ideals of osteopathy in the early 1900s and the methodology of most osteopathic physicians today.

 

[Sephiroth]

As someone who has more experience (employment and research) in applied economics than medicine, I know where you're coming but trust me, it just doesn't work like this in real life. If you're specifically thinking about the political ideology of allopathy versus osteopathy then I'd certainly agree with you but there's a pretty big disconnect between the ideals of osteopathy in the early 1900s and the methodology of most osteopathic physicians today.

That's another thing. To my knowledge, OMM is the only part of the curriculum that could properly be called osteopathy. Everything else (i.e. the stuff that's the same as MD schools) is allopathic/evidence-based medicine. So now osteopathy seems like almost a misnomer, since a minority of their schooling/work is actually in what would properly be called "osteopathic medicine", and that's the part that is almost never used and looked upon with suspicion, so idk what gives there. It seems to be more of an artifact of their origin maintained by what may be a vocal minority that hold power in the AOA/COCA that are wedded to it.

 

[scotchtapetest]

how do you know?

and

why?


caribbean schools are included in the US stats (the ones that say 90's).

and no anecdotal evidence. if you already accept them as superior students it is incredibly easy to rationalize all sorts of things with no proof. if there are new stats lets see them

No they are NOT... That table (the one on the left) says "Examinees from US/Canadian Schools"... Caribbean schools are NOT US/Canadian schools... Their overall pass rate on step 1 is close to +/- 50% which also mirrors their attrition rate.

http://www.usmle.org/performance-data/default.aspx

The rads job market is soft even for MDs from top programs in academic or PP atm; I'm sure DOs are worse off.

Well.... you all heard it first on SDN... drizzt3117 is SURE, case closed... Next time you go to the SS office you'll see thousands of DOs in the unemployment line waiting to collect their check (drizzt3117 said so)

Im not trying to say the opposite either. My point is that you can't say that DO = MD when it is harder to get into an allo school compared to an osteo school. Yes, getting into an Osteo school isn't easy either, but when you compare MD and DO students, MD students obviously have more of what it takes since that is what they evaluate when you apply to med school.

I don't know if all DOs are WORSE than MDs. Nor am I saying that every DO out there is incapable. Compared to MDs, they are less capable, otherwise there wouldn't be a difference in the admission standards or the quality of students.

I think someone who realizes early on what it takes to be successful and puts in the effort deserves more respect and is obviously better at handling things than someone (aka me) who screwed up for a long time before waking up.

At the end of the day we may both be doctors, but its the road we took thats different. Someone who has managed to have less roadblocks to success is inherently more successful than someone who had to go through hell and slog away to end up at the same exact place. This is precisely my point as the difference between MD and DO.

What hell? I'm finishing my school and I've never gone through hell. Actually went to a school where not everything was a competition and there wasn't a cut-throat environment like some other schools and enjoyed my time very much...

And I'm not even gonna bother responding to the rest of your BS post because you can't argue with irrational people (others have tried rationally arguing with you on this very thread and failed)....

In the past year the USMLE scoring has changed to reflect the new scoring statistics as alot of FMGs have been scoring 260+ from what I know. (Probably because these are the ones getting residencies.) Everybody I've come across have been scoring 240+. Probably because they have more competition.They are getting into Allopathic Residencies after passing the boards. Their issue is visa.

Nevertheless, in the MD vs DO debate, these foriegn students play a big role.

DOs, have less to worry about compared to US MDs.

EDIT: Also keep in mind, US-MD students are pretty much guaranteed a residency spot. Anybody outside US-Allopathic medical schools must go above and beyond to have a chance at residency and job as a clinical physician in USA.

2011 Match Data:
DO Match Rate (ACGME + AOA): 89.2% (usually runs between 87-90%)
US MD: 94.4% (Usually runs 92-94%)

So it is a bit of a stretch to say anybody outside of US-Allo must go above an beyond to get into residency.

And out of those who went unmatched, at least on the DO side (and I'm sure it's the same on the US Allo side) didn't want to take a spot that year (e.g. pregnancy/vacation/hold out for better spot/etc.) There are hundreds of open AOA IM/FM/Internship spots that never get filled each year more than enough for all unmated applicants.

Any DO graduate (same as US allo graduate) is guaranteed a spot (it may not be where you want or in your 1st choice of specialty, but if you finish/graduate from a US (MD or DO) medical school, you will get a spot and can get licensed if you wish to do so ).

 

[ashah0224]

No they are NOT... That table (the one on the left) says "Examinees from US/Canadian Schools"... Caribbean schools are NOT US/Canadian schools... Their overall pass rate on step 1 is close to +/- 50% which also mirrors their attrition rate.

http://www.usmle.org/performance-data/default.aspx



Well.... you all heard it first on SDN... drizzt3117 is SURE, case closed... Next time you go to the SS office you'll see thousands of DOs in the unemployment line waiting to collect their check (drizzt3117 said so)



What hell? I'm finishing my school and I've never gone through hell. Actually went to a school where not everything was a competition and there wasn't a cut-throat environment like some other schools and enjoyed my time very much...

And I'm not even gonna bother responding to the rest of your BS post because you can't argue with irrational people (others have tried rationally arguing with you on this very thread and failed)....



2011 Match Data:
DO Match Rate (ACGME + AOA): 89.2% (usually runs between 87-90%)
US MD: 94.4% (Usually runs 92-94%)

So it is a bit of a stretch to say anybody outside of US-Allo must go above an beyond to get into residency.

And out of those who went unmatched, at least on the DO side (and I'm sure it's the same on the US Allo side) didn't want to take a spot that year (e.g. pregnancy/vacation/hold out for better spot/etc.) There are hundreds of open AOA IM/FM/Internship spots that never get filled each year more than enough for all unmated applicants.

Any DO graduate (same as US allo graduate) is guaranteed a spot (it may not be where you want or in your 1st choice of specialty, but if you finish/graduate from a US (MD or DO) medical school, you will get a spot and can get licensed if you wish to do so ).

People can forego spots for various reasons.

As a US medical student / grad, there isnt much problem. Your stats prove this.
US students just have to pass and they have it set up for them.
US students who go above and beyond manage to get into ROADS.
Other students must go above and beyond to achieve the same spots - and even jobs - e.g. caribs or FMGs

If there are open AOA spots then that means there are more people shooting for allopathic. I dont know exact numbers, but osteopathic student:residency spot ratio is not 1:1.

Why would people go to an AOA spot if Allopathic spots have more capacity for growth and income? Alot of people go to Osteopathic because they couldnt get into Allopathic.

Besides, osteopathic grads must be doing something rather than sitting on their butt all day. I have not found Osteopathic doctors doing research or pursuing an MBA, for the most part. Which means competition pool for allopathic spots has increased. Which was my point.

In response to a few people: Fundamentally there is negligible difference between current Allopathic and Osteopathic schools of medicine. DO students learn OMM and take the COMLEX and have the option to take USMLE. Otherwise it is all the same. DO grads have a problem with recognition because the MD is more known, but a DO physician is still a physician. I have relatives who are DOs. The issue is recognition. Does it matter? Not really. In the long run, it depends on your ego and patience in explaining your life story.

@bala565: "What hell? I'm finishing my school and I've never gone through hell. Actually went to a school where not everything was a competition and there wasn't a cut-throat environment like some other schools and enjoyed my time very much..."

Exactly. It's not like that at foreign schools, carib schools and other US schools. My friends have told me this. You were lucky. I wish i could be in your position.

 

[SpecterGT260]

whoops. misread canadian as caribbean. my bad. but thanks for re-linking the link I had just posted

maybe u need a nap Mr. Grumpypants

 

[scotchtapetest]

People can forego spots for various reasons.

As a US medical student / grad, there isnt much problem. Your stats prove this.
US students just have to pass and they have it set up for them.
US students who go above and beyond manage to get into ROADS.
Other students must go above and beyond to achieve the same spots - and even jobs - e.g. caribs or FMGs

If there are open AOA spots then that means there are more people shooting for allopathic. I dont know exact numbers, but osteopathic student:residency spot ratio is not 1:1.

Grads must be doing something rather than sitting on their butt all day. I have not found Osteopathic doctors doing research or pursuing an MBA, for the most part. Which means competition pool for allopathic spots has increased. Which was my point.

You sound like a semi (almost fully) logical person (FYI, that's a compliment)... but just to help you out a little,

As a pre-med you are not in a position to have seen much (it's not your fault and I'm not insulting you, with time you will)... What graduates do depends on the reason why they decided not to accept a position in the scramble.... If they wanted a more completive spot then they will certainly do research that year (MBA unless it's from Harvard/Columbia/etc. it's a BS degree and residency programs don't care about it)... If the reason was pregnancy, then they do sit on their butt; Some of them (small number) also take a year off to go on medical missions/vacation/whatever floats their boat...

The entire number of DOs in the allo match is NOTHING compared to the number of IMG/FMG in the allo match (Ross and SGU grads alone almost equal the entire DO grads from 30+ schools in the allo match)... So what DOs do has very little affect on the allo match (currently they are <5% of the allo match applicants).

And as you correctly pointed out if you graduate from a US medical school (MD and DO), you are guaranteed a spot in something/somewhere.

 

[ashah0224]

You sound like a semi (almost fully) logical person (FYI, that's a compliment)... but just to help you out a little,

As a pre-med you are not in a position to have seen much (it's not your fault and I'm not insulting you, with time you will)... What graduates do depends on the reason why they decided not to accept a position in the scramble.... If they wanted a more completive spot then they will certainly do research that year (MBA unless it's from Harvard/Columbia/etc. it's a BS degree and residency programs don't care about it)... If the reason was pregnancy, then they do sit on their butt; Some of them (small number) also take a year off to go on medical missions/vacation/whatever floats their boat...

The entire number of DOs in the allo match is NOTHING compared to the number of IMG/FMG in the allo match (Ross and SGU grads alone almost equal the entire DO grads from 30+ schools in the allo match)... So what DOs do has very little affect on the allo match (currently they are <5% of the allo match applicants).

And as you correctly pointed out if you graduate from a US medical school (MD and DO), you are guaranteed a spot in something/somewhere.

lol. im actually studying for my step 1 right now. i never updated my profile.

perhaps i have not seen much... i have yet to start clinicals.

 

[drizzt3117]

Well.... you all heard it first on SDN... drizzt3117 is SURE, case closed... Next time you go to the SS office you'll see thousands of DOs in the unemployment line waiting to collect their check (drizzt3117 said so)

If you read my later post, I said that DOs who did ACGME residencies are probably in not significantly worse shape than MDs doing the same residencies, but AOA residencies are another story.

 

[Nexus5]

bc panties go up when one is trying to explain what a do is

 

[SpecterGT260]

bc panties go up when one is trying to explain what a do is

 

[SoulinNeed]

Wait, Rads are having a hard time finding a job? I had no idea there was even such a thing as an unemployed doctor.

 

[ashah0224]

Wait, Rads are having a hard time finding a job? I had no idea there was even such a thing as an unemployed doctor.

I think you need to re-read everything in this thread 1000x over.

 

[SoulinNeed]

I think you need to re-read everything in this thread 1000x over.

Just asking a question. I had no idea radiologists were having a tough time finding jobs. I've looked at the forums for those fields here. All I can find is that Nuclear Medicine is having a tough time in the employment department, but that's it.

 

[drizzt3117]

Just asking a question. I had no idea radiologists were having a tough time finding jobs. I've looked at the forums for those fields here. All I can find is that Nuclear Medicine is having a tough time in the employment department, but that's it.

The job market in major cities is a little soft right now. There are plenty of jobs in less desirable areas, though; that being said, all my info is from people at top programs so I don't know how people are doing in the community setting.

 

[SoulinNeed]

The job market in major cities is a little soft right now. There are plenty of jobs in less desirable areas, though; that being said, all my info is from people at top programs so I don't know how people are doing in the community setting.

Oh, lol. That's a totally different story. Both my parents are doctors. It's always been a bit tough to find jobs in major cities, compared to "less desirable areas". Most docs that I've known have been moving into locations in the suburbs and surrounding areas for years now. That's just how it's been from my experience. I'm sure all Rads residency graduates (AOA+ACGME) are able to find "decent" employment. No, probably not all in their desired location, but they'll be making around the norm for their profession. At least that's how it is for the two Rads that I personally know (one is a FMG, and the other is US MD).

 

[drizzt3117]

Oh, lol. That's a totally different story. Both my parents are doctors. It's always been a bit tough to find jobs in major cities, compared to "less desirable areas". Most docs that I've known have been moving into locations in the suburbs and surrounding areas for years now. That's just how it's been from my experience. I'm sure all Rads residency graduates (AOA+ACGME) are able to find "decent" employment. No, probably not all in their desired location, but they'll be making around the norm for their profession. At least that's how it is for the two Rads that I personally know (one is a FMG, and the other is US MD).

No the job market is actually much softer than usual right now. People are genuinely concerned. It's definitely not like Path levels of concern, but significant levels of concern, to the point where residency programs are actively emphasizing that their grads are getting jobs; I do think the market will firm up in the next 3-5 years but right now it's not great. There really are a lot of ACGME rads positions at the moment.

 

[SoulinNeed]

No the job market is actually much softer than usual right now. People are genuinely concerned. It's definitely not like Path levels of concern, but significant levels of concern, to the point where residency programs are actively emphasizing that their grads are getting jobs; I do think the market will firm up in the next 3-5 years but right now it's not great. There really are a lot of ACGME rads positions at the moment.

Well, I would expect it to be softer currently. However, if you say that there are still plenty of job opportunities out there for graduates, and that things will firm up in the next 3-5 years, then I don't see much cause for concern, honestly.

 

[SoulinNeed]

BTW, hasn't Pathology had employment problems for YEARS now? I've heard of Paths having trouble with over saturation of their field in like 2006.