Why is Allopathic school favored over Osteopathic?

[scotchtapetest]

I had cited that above somewhere bcs its the only reaction I remembered from orgo (took it in 03) at that point. I since have remembered something called a diels alder reaction...and that it may or may not have involved some sort of dienes? Feel free to use that in SN2s place.

Dude just stop! Who cares...

Some people just get their kicks from calling themselves smart on anonymous internet message boards... We all have our fetishes and this is theirs...

Aren't you a second year? Go study for COMLEX or something.... and promise me that this is the last time you mentioned/remembered SN2 or anything else from ochem!

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[FattySlug]

Are we really going to nitpick my post? I am posting while studying and not proofreading my posts. That should have said they dont correlate "in many cases."

Then should have said so to begin with or clarify after without resorting to "I wouldn't expect you to understand this."

 

[shinbeats]

You were the one who first took it to the extreme by saying that. I didn't need to push anything.

Edit: My extreme example was just to illustrate your point that if the two don't correlate AT ALL then somebody who can't understand simple biology must have a decent shot at being ok in medical school right?

Edit 2: "People grow up, people mature, and as someone who is still in college I wouldnt expect you to understand this."

LOL You are the one advocating not judging one's ability on test scores and yet you judged my maturity on the fact that I am a premed in college which I am not, 25 and out of school. Get off your high horse bro.

Honestly if you had put even 50 % of the effort into your application than your argument on this thread you would have been accepted into medical school this year.

 

[sector9]

I remember that a nucleophile comes in from one side and a "leaving group" leaves from the other side....rite?

Haha I have no idea I hated ochem!

 

[willen101383]

Then should have said so to begin with or clarify after without resorting to "I wouldn't expect you to understand this."

I wouldnt expect you to understand it. You are a premed! You arent in med school. You cant compare your undergrad performance with your medical school performance. Me saying that wasnt meant as a personal attack. In my experience undergrad performance has very little to do with performance in med school.

Either way, I gain nothing by posting in pre allo. I do so to interject some of my experiences into threads where I see fit. Obviously premeds know more than me about medical school so I dont really know why I bother.

 

[willen101383]

Dude just stop! Who cares...

Some people just get their kicks from calling themselves smart on anonymous internet message boards... We all have our fetishes and this is theirs...

Aren't you a second year? Go study for COMLEX or something.... and promise me that this is the last time you mentioned/remembered SN2 or anything else from ochem!

Thanks for this...sometimes I think that I am actually doing this board some good by posting my experiences. But as I posted above, obviously I dont know as much about med school as premeds....so I shouldnt bother. As for COMLEX/USMLE...not starting to study till April 1st! Winding down with neuro and then on to 7 weeks of P/F goodness

And I promise...but I also promise I only remember those 2 reactions haha

 

[FattySlug]

Honestly if you had put even 50 % of the effort into your application than your argument on this thread you would have been accepted into medical school this year.

And who the hell are you? I made an argument about the issue and he resorted to personal attacks by talking down to me.

Seriously being a medical student doesn't make you any better than people so please stop picking on others by mocking the fact that they are not medical student. There are a few of you around here.

Not that it matters but I am already accepted.

Edit: Oh yeah enjoy that medical student tag. I am sure it makes you feel more of a man.

 

[willen101383]

And who the hell are you? I made an argument about the issue and he resorted to personal attacks by talking down to me.

Seriously being a medical student doesn't make you any better than people so please stop picking on others by mocking the fact that they are not medical student. There are a few of you around here.

Not that it matters but I am already accepted.

Dude. You need to CHILL. When did I talk down to you?

The fact of the matter is regardless of the fact that you are "25 and out of college" is meaningless. You are still a pre med and dont have med school experiences to refute my statement with. When you get to med school, and find some massive correlation between your undergrad performance and medschool performance by all means feel free to PM me. It wasnt my experience....and wasnt the experience of many of my friends.

 

[tantacles]

I remember that a nucleophile comes in from one side and a "leaving group" leaves from the other side....rite?

Are you a halide? Because baby, you look like you're vulnerable to backside attack.

 

[willen101383]

are you a halide? Because baby, you look like you're vulnerable to backside attack.

 

[flodhi1]

This has to be one of the most way off topic thread ever!

 

[willen101383]

This has to be one of the most way off topic thread ever!

Ur tellin me! A DO vs MD for the record books for sure! Im watching a show on wing suit skydivers on nat geo...I suggest you do the same. Insane.

 

[drizzt3117]

This is a silly argument. On average people who do better in HS will do better in UG. On average people who do better in UG will do better in med school. On average people who do better in med school will do better in residency, and so on. There are of course exceptions, but thats the general trend.

 

[tantacles]

This is a silly argument. On average people who do better in HS will do better in UG. On average people who do better in UG will do better in med school. On average people who do better in med school will do better in residency, and so on. There are of course exceptions, but thats the general trend.

That's nice. Can we talk about orgo innuendo some more?

 

[235788]

+1 Some of you premeds need to seriously get over stats such as GPA, MCAT etc.. it won't get you laid I PROMISE.

you can have all three.

 

[235788]

I, for one, think MD and DO should just be combined. Either that, or do away with DO alltogether. There's really no benefit in having 2 different, yet so similar, philosophies and schools of medicine.

DO would have to drop the OMM crap or MD would have to add it.

 

[235788]

But OMM is already included as an elective at a lot of MD schools.

true true

 

[drizzt3117]

But OMM is already included as an elective at a lot of MD schools.

My guess is no one ever takes it unless it's a 4th year elective.

 

[235788]

You're probably right. And the lack of OMM training, as far as I'm concerned, has never hindered a doctors ability to perform their job. Hence, centering an entire education around the practice of OMM just seems silly. Osteopathy emphasizes that they are taught holistic medicine, but o do MD schools. There's literally no real difference between the 2, and I just think it's a huge waste of resources and an uneccesary distraction. Having 2 schools of medicine certainly doesnt enhance the file of medicine. Consolidating the 2 would, however

well OMM does seem like a glorified chiropractic technique.

I think all schools use "holistic" loosely. I don't think it has a real meaning, but rather is another bs adjective used to describe their program.

 

[Bartemius]

What I really don't understand is a place like Michigan State, which grants both MD and DO degrees. It definitely seems like a major redundancy, but eh, haven't really read into it so I'm not well-versed on how that particular situation works. More generally, it could make sense to consolidate but, as others have noted, each side has its own issues with the other that IMO will take decades of self-molding before any real headway can be made.

 

[DeterminedDoc]

Osteopathic seems like it is every pre-med student's back-up plan instead of what they are actually aiming for.

You sort of answered your own question - because Osteo is considered, as you said, a "back-up plan". I mean if I want to be a doctor but I am not good enough in life to be an MD.................O Look! The same type of career with a different degree but with easier admission standards! aka backup plan. That's why OP, its not rocket science.

You get to enjoy taking both the USMLE and the COMLEX with the likelihood that you won't land as good a residency as your MD colleagues, you have doors that are shut or are more complicated to open for certain specialties, and you have to explain to people what your degree means.....but hey now its ok, we don't want to hurt those people's feelings because they aren't good enough, at the end of the day we just tell them that we're all "equal" lol.

 

[flodhi1]

Wow, you're a huge dick. I know exactly what type of person you are. You're one of those people who would instantly kill my buzz. I would consistently avoid hanging out with you.

+1 He's the pre-med that walks to his Cell Biology class with a white coat on that's a "DeterminedDoc" for you.

 

[DeterminedDoc]

Wow, you're a huge dick.

Yea I can be if I'm angry enough, but it still doesn't mean that I'm wrong.

I know exactly what type of person you are. You're one of those people who would instantly kill my buzz. I would consistently avoid hanging out with you.

Oh no! Whatever will I do if you, the anonymous SDN user who holds no meaning to my life, refuses to hang out with me!

Try harder.

+1 He's the pre-med that walks to his Cell Biology class with a white coat on that's a "DeterminedDoc" for you.

Nope, cause I'm not even good enough for DO schools, despite the fact that I think they aren't as good as MD schools. In fact I'm not really good for any school at the moment because I walk into class failing them. That is "DeterminedDoc" - anyone whose life just sucks beyond reason at the moment.

 

[flodhi1]

This whole DO vs MD thing really is an idea in between premeds that are trying to stroke their egos. Yes MD schools require greater stats but that does not mean their students will become greater physicians. Every other premed dreams about being an orthopedic surgeon, dermatologist or a neurosurgeon until they get rejected from medical school. The same egotistical premed then performs lab work for DOs the rest of his life making slightly over minimum wage. If they do get accepted they take the boards, score below a 200, get stuck with uncompetitive residencies and their ego fades away while they work at hospitals making less money than some DOs. The fact of the matter is that DO applicants might have a lower MCAT score than you wannabe MDs but that does not mean they can't score higher than you on the boards, land better residencies than you, become richer than you. So please for the love of God shut up.

 

[MIAYO]

at that same unfortunate DMU interview I went to, the other applicants sat down in a pow-wow while waiting for the actual interview and just hated on MDs and MD programs for about a half hour. The fact that they had an average 25 mcat between them was strangely absent from the list of reasons.... sorry, there was no non-snarky way to put that

Wow, DO schools never came up once at any of MD interviews. I feel sorry for the serious DO students who have to be associated with these insecure tools.

 

[ppfizenm]

well OMM does seem like a glorified chiropractic technique.

I think all schools use "holistic" loosely. I don't think it has a real meaning, but rather is another bs adjective used to describe their program.

agree. Now-a-days it seems to be a buzz word more than anything else.

 

[drizzt3117]

at that same unfortunate DMU interview I went to, the other applicants sat down in a pow-wow while waiting for the actual interview and just hated on MDs and MD programs for about a half hour. The fact that they had an average 25 mcat between them was strangely absent from the list of reasons.... sorry, there was no non-snarky way to put that

Lol how were they hating on MD/MD schools?

 

[JackShephard MD]

1) MD schools have higher admissions standards than DO schools on average.

2) MD students have more research opportunities than their DO counterparts.

3) MD students have a easier time matching into top academic programs in nearly every specialty (EM/FM are possible exceptions; my guess is that at the top academic EM programs such as BWH, MD students are still favored but I'm not sure about top community/communiversity programs like highland, carolinas, etc. 4/42 of the residents at Wisconsin's fam med program (top 3) were DOs)

4) In many cases DO schools are more expensive and have worse clinical sites than their MD counterparts.

5) If you're interested in primary care or private practice in many specialties, you likely won't be handicapped by attending a DO school.

/thread

This is a silly argument. On average people who do better in HS will do better in UG. On average people who do better in UG will do better in med school. On average people who do better in med school will do better in residency, and so on. There are of course exceptions, but thats the general trend.

I don't know what else can be added to this debate.

A lot of the added insults and comments people are making have the purpose of tearing others down to make themselves feel superior.

 

[StudyShy]

Welcome back?

Thanks!

 

[SpecterGT260]

Lol how were they hating on MD/MD schools?

MDs are insensitive, pill pushing, arrogant tools who do not care about patients and oh why would anyone want to be an MD over a DO

 

[MIAYO]

MDs are insensitive, pill pushing, arrogant tools who do not care about patients and oh why would anyone want to be an MD over a DO

And was it just the one student saying these things or did the other interviewees join in on the bashing?

Edit:nvmd. Read the original post again

 

[smq123]

Nurse practitioners are fighting for independent practice.

Congress continues to threaten to cut physician Medicare payments by over 20%. Last minute reprieves are all that save physician reinbursements.

There is no malpractice tort reform in sight.

There is talk of cutting ACGME funding, which could mean that either there won't be enough residency spots for you guys, or that you might have to pay tuition to do residency.

And yet all of you premeds and med students are wasting energy and breath arguing over the superiority of allopathic over osteopathic schools?!

And no, I'm not a DO who is "hypersensitive," as I'm sure some of you are thinking. I'm an MD who thinks that all of you should be more worried about preserving the future of the profession that we BOTH practice, MD and DO alike.

[/rant]

 

[natorx]

^ +1

Best post this entire thread

 

[Baller MD]

Nurse practitioners are fighting for independent practice.

Congress continues to threaten to cut physician Medicare payments by over 20%. Last minute reprieves are all that save physician reinbursements.

There is no malpractice tort reform in sight.

There is talk of cutting ACGME funding, which could mean that either there won't be enough residency spots for you guys, or that you might have to pay tuition to do residency.

And yet all of you premeds and med students are wasting energy and breath arguing over the superiority of allopathic over osteopathic schools?!

And no, I'm not a DO who is "hypersensitive," as I'm sure some of you are thinking. I'm an MD who thinks that all of you should be more worried about preserving the future of the profession that we BOTH practice, MD and DO alike.

[/rant]

 

[lacrosse87]

Nurse practitioners are fighting for independent practice.

Congress continues to threaten to cut physician Medicare payments by over 20%. Last minute reprieves are all that save physician reinbursements.

There is no malpractice tort reform in sight.

There is talk of cutting ACGME funding, which could mean that either there won't be enough residency spots for you guys, or that you might have to pay tuition to do residency.

And yet all of you premeds and med students are wasting energy and breath arguing over the superiority of allopathic over osteopathic schools?!

And no, I'm not a DO who is "hypersensitive," as I'm sure some of you are thinking. I'm an MD who thinks that all of you should be more worried about preserving the future of the profession that we BOTH practice, MD and DO alike.

[/rant]

 

[lacrosse87]

Holy crap, hivemind

 

[drizzt3117]

Yeah, if we weren't discussing this we could be fixing all the other problems in healthcare all by ourselves...

Nurse practitioners are fighting for independent practice.

Congress continues to threaten to cut physician Medicare payments by over 20%. Last minute reprieves are all that save physician reinbursements.

There is no malpractice tort reform in sight.

There is talk of cutting ACGME funding, which could mean that either there won't be enough residency spots for you guys, or that you might have to pay tuition to do residency.

And yet all of you premeds and med students are wasting energy and breath arguing over the superiority of allopathic over osteopathic schools?!

And no, I'm not a DO who is "hypersensitive," as I'm sure some of you are thinking. I'm an MD who thinks that all of you should be more worried about preserving the future of the profession that we BOTH practice, MD and DO alike.

[/rant]

 

[SpecterGT260]

good point. DOWN WITH NURSE PRACTIITONERS!

 

[drizzt3117]

Btw, just to update us on the whole DO residency thing and how everyone doing ROAD apparently applies DO and are withdrawn from the MD match... 5/30 of the DO rads spots went unfilled this year.

 

[DaTruMD]

durr

 

[ensuii]

Btw, just to update us on the whole DO residency thing and how everyone doing ROAD apparently applies DO and are withdrawn from the MD match... 5/30 of the DO rads spots went unfilled this year.

Give it a rest bro.

 

[drizzt3117]

Give it a rest bro.

Just trying to prevent the spread of outright wrong info.

 

[Sephiroth]

Btw, just to update us on the whole DO residency thing and how everyone doing ROAD apparently applies DO and are withdrawn from the MD match... 5/30 of the DO rads spots went unfilled this year.

can you or someone else explain this, because I'm confused as to why this would happen. I doubt that there aren't 30 graduating DO students who would want to do rads, so there must be a better reason.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Give it a rest bro.

Just trying to prevent the spread of outright wrong info.

The best part of this is that the most effective way on a forum to get someone to "give it a rest" is unequivocally to not quote them......

 

[SpecterGT260]

can you or someone else explain this, because I'm confused as to why this would happen. I doubt that there aren't 30 graduating DO students who would want to do rads, so there must be a better reason.

I dont know what AOA match system is like, but for MDs if student's dont rank a program it will have seats left open. This can either be because the program is undesirable, the students were cocky and only ranked a couple, or because the programs were cocky and didnt rank all students and lost their ranked students to other programs.

however with a small match like this if they have a scramble you would think they would fill up....

 

[drizzt3117]

can you or someone else explain this, because I'm confused as to why this would happen. I doubt that there aren't 30 graduating DO students who would want to do rads, so there must be a better reason.

It's because, like I said earlier, any remotely competitive candidate will withdraw from the DO match and apply ACGME. The DO rads programs are all community programs in mostly undesirable areas. I posted a link on the previous page listing them all.

 

[SpecterGT260]

It's because, like I said earlier, any remotely competitive candidate will withdraw from the DO match and apply ACGME. The DO rads programs are all community programs in mostly undesirable areas. I posted a link on the previous page listing them all.

just to make sure we are operating on the same vocab list here: rads = radiology?

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

Nurse practitioners are fighting for independent practice.

Congress continues to threaten to cut physician Medicare payments by over 20%. Last minute reprieves are all that save physician reinbursements.

There is no malpractice tort reform in sight.

There is talk of cutting ACGME funding, which could mean that either there won't be enough residency spots for you guys, or that you might have to pay tuition to do residency.

And yet all of you premeds and med students are wasting energy and breath arguing over the superiority of allopathic over osteopathic schools?!

And no, I'm not a DO who is "hypersensitive," as I'm sure some of you are thinking. I'm an MD who thinks that all of you should be more worried about preserving the future of the profession that we BOTH practice, MD and DO alike.

[/rant]

Best post in this thread.

Who cares about DO vs. MD when (D)NP >> MD/DO? The issues smq listed are far more relevant to the reality of medicine. Time and effort would be better spent focusing on these issues that will have a tangible impact on us in the future rather meaningless in-fighting.

Yeah, if we weren't discussing this we could be fixing all the other problems in healthcare all by ourselves...

No, we probably won't fix all these problems. But we at least would be discussing relevant issues and increasing premed/med student awareness of these things. You'd be surprised how completely uninformed a significant number of premeds (and med students) are regarding the issues that smq listed.

 

[drizzt3117]

just to make sure we are operating on the same vocab list here: rads = radiology?

Yes.

 

[drizzt3117]

Best post in this thread.

Who cares about DO vs. MD when (D)NP >> MD/DO? The issues smq listed are far more relevant to the reality of medicine. Time and effort would be better spent focusing on these issues that will have a tangible impact on us in the future rather meaningless in-fighting.

The whole midlevel thing is so overblown; I can see why they'd be considered a threat to PCPs but they're very good for taking care of floor patients in procedural specialties.

No, we probably won't fix all these problems. But we at least would be discussing relevant issues and increasing premed/med student awareness of these things. You'd be surprised how completely uninformed a significant number of premeds (and med students) are regarding the issues that smq listed.

Cool, feel free to discuss whatever you want and I'll do the same.