Why is the A in PA stand for assistant?

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Jezzielin

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This might sound bad :confused: and I know that PAs assist doctors, but it just irritates me that going to college for 4 years, then PA school for 2 - I would work so hard to be called assistant. It should be associate or something... any thoughts or other ideas for what 'A' can stand for?

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Changing the name is a political move and full of double speak (ie sanitary worker=trashman, nutritional services=lunch lady)...

Seems to me that if one chose the profession, they should fully realize their title and not attempt to change it AFTER they have accepted their lot.
 
Freeeedom! said:
Changing the name is a political move and full of double speak (ie sanitary worker=trashman, nutritional services=lunch lady)...

Seems to me that if one chose the profession, they should fully realize their title and not attempt to change it AFTER they have accepted their lot.

I do agree that names sometimes dont convay what a person does, but I dont agree with how you compare blue collar occupations with PA and other professions. All in all names are just that, ones attitude towards his job and himself are what really matters, remember happiness comes from within.
 
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Honestly, I don't understand why "assistant" irritates you so much. As far as I'm concerned people can call me what ever they want, as long as I'm happy with what I'm doing and I know what my job is. People call me ambulance driver all the time, I could let that irritate me, but I don't. I know what I really do and I'm happy with that. If "Physician Assistant" bothers you so much then why not become a "Nurse Practitioner?"
 
Awesome point. There is no meaning to offend anyone here, just had a moment where I wondered this, seeing all of the time and hard work that goes into it being a PA. It is stupid that I actually had a thought like this. I just hate how people I talk to, not all but a few, downplay the role PAs take in medicine. I just need to change my odd mentality.
 
you should've tried a little harder and gone to medical school. don't project your insecurities onto others when you have only yourself to blame.

you can't practice without medical direction oversight. your 4 year degree is useless as no one learns anything practical in undergrad. and 2 years is a joke... get with the program and realize that most doctors see anywhere from 7 to 12 years post-bac.

i can't stand ancillary staff always whining. do your job so that we don't have to always pick up your slack and finish your notes.
 
typeB-md said:
you should've tried a little harder and gone to medical school. don't project your insecurities onto others when you have only yourself to blame.

you can't practice without medical direction oversight. your 4 year degree is useless as no one learns anything practical in undergrad. and 2 years is a joke... get with the program and realize that most doctors see anywhere from 7 to 12 years post-bac.

i can't stand ancillary staff always whining. do your job so that we don't have to always pick up your slack and finish your notes.

Um, just in case you didn't notice, this is a FORUM for "ancillary staff" and the like, so if you are so sick of the whining you probably should not troll around and say inciteful things. You are only being mean and bragging about your *wondrous* education. I don't know what gave you your nasty attitude but you should not let one bad experience ruin your view of PA's. Just like I won't let my impression of you ruin the utmost respect I have for most M.D.'s.
P.S. I have read many threads on the pre-med and med forums most of which contain some "whining". Often that is what people need to do in order to let off steam and I do not fault them one bit.
 
typeB-md said:
you should've tried a little harder and gone to medical school. don't project your insecurities onto others when you have only yourself to blame.

you can't practice without medical direction oversight. your 4 year degree is useless as no one learns anything practical in undergrad. and 2 years is a joke... get with the program and realize that most doctors see anywhere from 7 to 12 years post-bac.

i can't stand ancillary staff always whining. do your job so that we don't have to always pick up your slack and finish your notes.


Heh, I am in college now and working hard. And I am working towards applying to medical school, and you know what? I CAN make it in. As could any PA if they wanted to. I am simply saying that people like you are why I think PAs can go underappreciated. I think PA is a fabulous career choice and I have been considering to still apply to med school, but ultimately, even if I make it - will maybe not go. Good for you for your 7-12 years post-bac. Too bad it made you so cranky though. Lata. :laugh:


P.S. I have read many threads on the pre-med and med forums most of which contain some "whining". Often that is what people need to do in order to let off steam and I do not fault them one bit.

Thanks, I am just trying to vent and see what people think. I appreciate it! :oops:
 
shannanigans said:
Um, just in case you didn't notice, this is a FORUM for "ancillary staff" and the like, so if you are so sick of the whining you probably should not troll around and say inciteful things. You are only being mean and bragging about your *wondrous* education. I don't know what gave you your nasty attitude but you should not let one bad experience ruin your view of PA's. Just like I won't let my impression of you ruin the utmost respect I have for most M.D.'s.
P.S. I have read many threads on the pre-med and med forums most of which contain some "whining". Often that is what people need to do in order to let off steam and I do not fault them one bit.

i don't condone med students whining either. and pre-meds are probably the biggest bunch of whiners and most useless individuals of any one group.

my comments are in regard to the OP who thinks s/he "has worked so hard and is 'nobody's' assistant!"

in reality, many others work much harder to get where they are. 2 years post-bacc is childs play and in any other profession (i.e. MBA) it doesn't even guarantee you rights to a job or money. why the "Assistant" well, because you ARE there to ASSIST the doctor. You are not the primary care giver and as such you are called an ASSISTANT. I don't know why there is such grief over this. You do not know MORE than the doctors. Nothing is worse than a nurse/PA who believes their role is to run the show. Please do your job and ASSIST when WE need you to. And stop being such a baby... your job is very important and we'd likely go nuts without you. BUT please stop projecting your insecurities in the form of temper tantrums in my office or deliberately failing to work out the orders.
 
Jezzielin said:
Heh, I am in college now and working hard. And I am working towards applying to medical school, and you know what? I CAN make it in. As could any PA if they wanted to. I am simply saying that people like you are why I think PAs can go underappreciated. I think PA is a fabulous career choice and I have been considering to still apply to med school, but ultimately, even if I make it - will maybe not go. Good for you for your 7-12 years post-bac. Too bad it made you so cranky though. Lata. :laugh:




Thanks, I am just trying to vent and see what people think. I appreciate it! :oops:

i never said anything about PAs being underappreciated. they are very necessary and very appreciated in a practice setting.

What i was addressing is the issue that you had with the word "assistant." You, NOT me, are the one who seems to have grief with the profession. The PAs role is ancillary (i.e. must be overseen by some form of medical direction as the final authority). I don't know why YOU have to be a baby and whine about it.

The fact of the matter is that a PA can do many procedures and is many times just AS integral as a primary care physician. PA is 2 years post, Primary Care physician is 7 years post. If you ask me... if you are going to practice primary medicine, a PA is the way to go, both in terms of money and time spent. It also seems, however, that peoples' egos get in the way of rationale and this might explain your original post.

Is a janitor necessary? Is a secretary necessary? Are nurses necessary? Are CEOs necessary? The simple answer is yes. Regardless of academic prerequisites and status, all of these jobs confer great importance in regards to the clock-work-like state of the business world. Does a CEO have more responsibility than a nurse, secretary, or janitor? The answer again is yes. You are confusing responsibility with importance. The PA is an integral professional assistance to the physician. In the end, however, the physician has the final authority and say, and this is why the PA is designated as ancillary.

so i ask you to please stop your whining. and just because idiot med and useless (and even more idiotic and stupid-acting) pre-meds whine like babies doesn't make it alright for you to. if you can take a positive attitude into the work place and lose the napoleon-esque one, the clock runs a bit smoother and everyone goes home happier. and if you want to be called "doctor" and not "assistant," then go to medical school and work for it. but please don't think that your 2 years post-bacc can compare (in terms of effort and intensity) with that of a physician's 7 year training. so lose the 'tude or hit the books but stop the whining either way.
 
typeB-md said:
so i ask you to please stop your whining. and just because idiot med and useless (and even more idiotic and stupid-acting) pre-meds whine like babies doesn't make it alright for you to. if you can take a positive attitude into the work place and lose the napoleon-esque one, the clock runs a bit smoother and everyone goes home happier. and if you want to be called "doctor" and not "assistant," then go to medical school and work for it. but please don't think that your 2 years post-bacc can compare (in terms of effort and intensity) with that of a physician's 7 year training. so lose the 'tude or hit the books but stop the whining either way.


Are you sure you completed your 1-year English requirement for medical school? I use poor grammar and miss-spell all the time, but your posts are redundant and hard to follow! Just an aside; if you're going to explain the role of an assistant to this group of underachievers, try to at least write a little better than the ancillary staff. L.
 
lawguil said:
Are you sure you completed your 1-year English requirement for medical school? I use poor grammar and miss-spell all the time, but your posts are redundant and hard to follow! Just an aside; if you're going to explain the role of an assistant to this group of underachievers, try to at least write a little better than the ancillary staff. L.

ah, your use of an evidence-based approach is second to none. also it seems you have mastered the use of the semicolon. and when are miss spell and mr. spell going to be having their engagement party?

i hope your username is more for parody; a lawyer would surely be familiar with the judicial system and its use of evidence to bring about conviction.

and a point of interest. if you cannot understand... perhaps it is not I who have the problem.
 
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typeB-md said:
ah, your use of an evidence-based approach is second to none. also it seems you have mastered the use of the semicolon. and when are miss spell and mr. spell going to be having their engagement party?

i hope your username is more for parody; a lawyer would surely be familiar with the judicial system and its use of evidence to bring about conviction.

and a point of interest. if you cannot understand... perhaps it is not I who have the problem.


LOL! It's promising to see that you can edit. I sure as hell can't, but I can express myself effectively with words. You on the other hand could use a little more direction. :laugh: :p
 
typeB-md said:
you should've tried a little harder and gone to medical school. don't project your insecurities onto others when you have only yourself to blame.

you can't practice without medical direction oversight. your 4 year degree is useless as no one learns anything practical in undergrad. and 2 years is a joke... get with the program and realize that most doctors see anywhere from 7 to 12 years post-bac.

i can't stand ancillary staff always whining. do your job so that we don't have to always pick up your slack and finish your notes.
typeB-md said:
i don't condone med students whining either. and pre-meds are probably the biggest bunch of whiners and most useless individuals of any one group.
my comments are in regard to the OP who thinks s/he "has worked so hard and is 'nobody's' assistant!"

in reality, many others work much harder to get where they are. 2 years post-bacc is childs play and in any other profession (i.e. MBA) it doesn't even guarantee you rights to a job or money. why the "Assistant" well, because you ARE there to ASSIST the doctor. You are not the primary care giver and as such you are called an ASSISTANT. I don't know why there is such grief over this. You do not know MORE than the doctors. Nothing is worse than a nurse/PA who believes their role is to run the show. Please do your job and ASSIST when WE need you to. And stop being such a baby... your job is very important and we'd likely go nuts without you. BUT please stop projecting your insecurities in the form of temper tantrums in my office or deliberately failing to work out the orders.

What the hell are you, a freakin *****, do you really get turned on by this crap? I feel like bleaching my eyeballs after reading this excrement. Damn it, 20 seconds of my life that I'll never get back.
 
typeB-md said:
you should've tried a little harder and gone to medical school. don't project your insecurities onto others when you have only yourself to blame.

you can't practice without medical direction oversight. your 4 year degree is useless as no one learns anything practical in undergrad. and 2 years is a joke... get with the program and realize that most doctors see anywhere from 7 to 12 years post-bac.

i can't stand ancillary staff always whining. do your job so that we don't have to always pick up your slack and finish your notes.

I agree MR. MD man, the undergrad education of the typical pre-med student (be it bio, physics or chemistry) is pretty darn worthless. I should know, I took all the classes......and even got into medical school.

But, the coursework that many PA students accomplished in undergrad can be of lots of worth. Take for example my sports medicine specialty in kinesiology.......1 year general A&P a systems breakdown, one year of Excercise specific physiology.... (circulatory, Pulmonary, and muscular function in DETAIL) One year of Structual anatomy (muskuloskeletal, and nervous specific) courses in tissue damage, wound management and response (chemical to gross) course in modalities and pharmacology basics for inflammation and tissue repair .. course in basic emergency medicine, Hmmm what else......

This stuff wasn't worthless at all, YES, physics and chem and ochem are pretty worthless in the grand scheme of things, you probably got into medical school and you didn't know anything about a human body until after your first semester.....

Also, you should realize...... 2 years of PA school, is 27 months... STRAIGHT,

Medical school is four years....... the general college schedule, 4 months, then a break, 4 months and then a summer break (repeat) thats only 16 months of didactic!, then do rotations, and I have been told by MANY people , that after you take step II, 4th year rotations get to be lazy, so you slack off, spending large chunks of time interviewing at residencies.... maybe of the possible 16 months of rotations, you use 12 of them efficiently...(just a guess)

Mr.MD man, you do the math......... it appears to me that the lenght of the medical school education might be a whole bunch closer to the lenght of the PA school education then you want to say..... break it down by hours, and the PA student might spend more time.... (8 hour days in class 5 days a week), Never really thought that hard about it, because we all know, a DR. doesn't learn anything about being a Dr. in medical school, it really starts in residency.......

PA's become PA's because of the working model, it fits some people really well. It's becoming more competetive to get into PA schook then it is for medical school..... (smaller class sizes, and an ever increasing applicant pool and now people with 4.0's who were ready to apply to medical school but decided being a PA was more financially practical, and for people that don't really desire to make 250-400K grand, a perfect route to a medical career, it might do you some good to meet a PA that schools you, there are plenty out there..... people who spend their first four or five years on the job SUCKING knowledge.... similar to what a resident does, no?

It's not about, trying harder.......... or being a medical school rejectee, maybe the anger comes from meeting PA's who invested 1/3 the post-bacc time as you, and is content at making 1/3 the salary as you, yet might be 90% as proficient as you.....and you scratch you head, and you realize, HEck Dr's aren't even allowed to speed and get out of speeding tickets anymore, and I have so much hassle to deal with then I get my own practice... how am I going to make sure I get paid, will the patients just magically show up at my door and need high paying procedures? Am I upset that I didn't get my Derms residency, because I was overlwhelmed my first year in school, and now a Derms PA is working a 9-4 day, and making six figures....... Hmmm, maybe I will go to SD.Net and BASH PA's because they must all be stooooopid, for not going to medical school, they can't possibly know what I know, because they aren't me!

I know this became "angry" and very rant-like, but Mr.MD you are just a person, like everyone else, you just happened to spend a lot of time in school, so BE proud of the things you know, that a PA might not know, but.....don't ever talk down to anyone, you never know who they're related to....and you never know who gets revengeful when they are talked down to.... make friends, and think outside the box..and the title "ancillary staff" is so pathetic, if you judge a persons knowledge by their education, then you might as well talk down to MD's with a shorter residency and fellowship, and you should grovel at any MD with a longer residency/fellowship,.... something tells me, anyone with an MD/DO is a colleague, yet the different in time of education between yourselves, is often greater then the difference in the education of a PA, and some Physicians!

You have to do an ANOVA on these variables, not just a blanketed opinion.

Ciao.....

*** This rant was not checked for grammar or spelling, and even if I did, I don't know proper grammar, or how to spell anyway**
 
to the above post. the issue with the OP was why they are referred to as "assistants." I never debated the crucial role that a PA plays. I was just giving insight into the relationship b/w the physician and PA. And the point of the "2 years" remark was to put into perspective that 2 years doesn't really entitle you to any type of title. And for the sake of argument, medical school is actually closer to 43 months and don't forget the 80+ hour workweeks that are not uncommon for 3 to 7 years post-medical school. and yes, i can see that for 1/3 the time it is a great choice... and you will see that i have stated such things in earlier posts.

to mr. law man. your lack of evidence parallels my lack of having edited my post. kudos on a job not-well-done. and since you have mastered the use of the semicolon as well as the more complex task of emoticon usage, perhaps a refresher course on commas might be in order. specifically the part about separating subjects from intermediate prepositional phrases. hemingway would be very proud! (insert emoticon and obligatory laughing out loud)

EDIT: mr. law man, are you even in the health profession arena or just an outspoken english/poli-sci major with no real plans for the future?
 
typeB-md said:
to the above post. the issue with the OP was why they are referred to as "assistants." I never debated the crucial role that a PA plays. I was just giving insight into the relationship b/w the physician and PA. And the point of the "2 years" remark was to put into perspective that 2 years doesn't really entitle you to any type of title. And for the sake of argument, medical school is actually closer to 43 months and don't forget the 80+ hour workweeks that are not uncommon for 3 to 7 years post-medical school. and yes, i can see that for 1/3 the time it is a great choice... and you will see that i have stated such things in earlier posts.

to mr. law man. your lack of evidence parallels my lack of having edited my post. kudos on a job not-well-done. and since you have mastered the use of the semicolon as well as the more complex task of emoticon usage, perhaps a refresher course on commas might be in order. specifically the part about separating subjects from intermediate prepositional phrases. hemingway would be very proud! (insert emoticon and obligatory laughing out loud)

EDIT: mr. law man, are you even in the health profession arena or just an outspoken english/poli-sci major with no real plans for the future?


What's emoticon?

Sorry, had to do it! :laugh:

Pat
 
To type-b md, I am also an MD and just to give you advice...don't even stress yourself posting answers for these people. Most of them, adamsomethingor other, for example, are clearly MD-wannabe's who are not entirely comfortable with the path they took and now feel the need to rant and rave at other people who took the path they ARE happy with. I also tried to point out that I am not devaluing PA's, just clarifying, but he is too stupid to completely read the posts.

The bottom line is, we need to stay in the MD forums where we belong. Because reading incorrect information about what med school is truly about (by the way, I NEVER got a summer break, ended classes on June 29th every year and started back up on July 1st and got an MPH all at the same time) is frustrating. It is sad that people who refuse to go the extra mile will waste time chastising those who did. Think about what they could do with all that EXTRA time???

P.S. For the record, everything is spelled correctly and in perfect grammatical order.
 
Our vibrations were getting nasty -- but why? Was there no communication
in this forum? Had we deteriorated to the level of dumb beasts?
 
typeB-md said:
to mr. law man. your lack of evidence parallels my lack of having edited my post. kudos on a job not-well-done. and since you have mastered the use of the semicolon as well as the more complex task of emoticon usage, perhaps a refresher course on commas might be in order. specifically the part about separating subjects from intermediate prepositional phrases. hemingway would be very proud! (insert emoticon and obligatory laughing out loud)

EDIT: mr. law man, are you even in the health profession arena or just an outspoken english/poli-sci major with no real plans for the future?

WOW! :eek: You're halfway there. At least you know the difference b/t subjects and objects. What I am now worried about is your understanding of coordinating conjunctions and the informal use of prepositions accepted by even the most formal writers.
Does anybody else sense the irony with this tyrannical ***** bringing up Hemingway? The man is also known for his unpleasant portrayal of woman and his glorification of machismo and the male identity. Keep the sh$# flying buddy, because you're really taking this a lot more seriously than anybody else! I've never met you; however, you remind me of a person who speaks to people rather than with them. :sleep:
 
Goddamnit, my PA program is three years graduate, with one break. 8-5 for the didactic MTWRF. Rotations are of course, rotations, and the third year is more rotations during the day and grad work in the evening.

It's not exactly a cruise, it's not like it's just an extra two years of undergrad or something.

And for the record. It's never been an issue of not being able to get into medical school, if i finished a few prereqs I could apply and be very competitive. I agree most PA students/PA's could get into medical school. Some PA schools are more competitive than some medical schools and most have far fewer positions. (Mine has 40 per class) It's a lifestyle preference really.
 
iliketocut said:
To type-b md, I am also an MD and just to give you advice...don't even stress yourself posting answers for these people. Most of them, adamsomethingor other, for example, are clearly MD-wannabe's who are not entirely comfortable with the path they took and now feel the need to rant and rave at other people who took the path they ARE happy with. I also tried to point out that I am not devaluing PA's, just clarifying, but he is too stupid to completely read the posts.

The bottom line is, we need to stay in the MD forums where we belong. Because reading incorrect information about what med school is truly about (by the way, I NEVER got a summer break, ended classes on June 29th every year and started back up on July 1st and got an MPH all at the same time) is frustrating. It is sad that people who refuse to go the extra mile will waste time chastising those who did. Think about what they could do with all that EXTRA time???

P.S. For the record, everything is spelled correctly and in perfect grammatical order.
well taken. i will be sticking to the allopath quarters. adieu my health-professional pals.
 
lawguil said:
WOW! :eek: You're halfway there. At least you know the difference b/t subjects and objects. What I am now worried about is your understanding of coordinating conjunctions and the informal use of prepositions accepted by even the most formal writers.
Does anybody else sense the irony with this tyrannical ***** bringing up Hemingway? The man is also known for his unpleasant portrayal of woman and his glorification of machismo and the male identity. Keep the sh$# flying buddy, because you're really taking this a lot more seriously than anybody else! I've never met you; however, you remind me of a person who speaks to people rather than with them. :sleep:

i know i already bid adieu... but you failed to mention your current profession? skirting around the issue? that's more like the lawyers i've met!
 
EMDream said:
Goddamnit, my PA program is three years graduate, with one break. 8-5 for the didactic MTWRF. Rotations are of course, rotations, and the third year is more rotations during the day and grad work in the evening.

It's not exactly a cruise, it's not like it's just an extra two years of undergrad or something.

And for the record. It's never been an issue of not being able to get into medical school, if i finished a few prereqs I could apply and be very competitive. I agree most PA students/PA's could get into medical school. Some PA schools are more competitive than some medical schools and most have far fewer positions. (Mine has 40 per class) It's a lifestyle preference really.

once more to reiterate, then i really am adieu. no one underestimates the importance of the PA. i was just explaining why they are "assistants." And like you said, you full-well knew you were choosing a profession (for lifestyle, etc. etc.) that was ancillary to the role of a physician.
 
"ancillary" may describe those pa's who have to present every pt to an md before thay leave the clinic/er/dept but most senior/seasoned pa's are a long way from this. a good pa compliments the work of an md allowing the practice to see twice as many pts for less than twice as much money as having 2 docs. the doc is available for the occassional question, but for the most part a pa who has been in practice for 5+ yrs doesn't have that many questions that they need to talk with their supervising doc about. I consult all the time but with specialty md consultants. I figured out pretty quickly that aisde from the early newbie questions most of the responses I was getting were" I don't know the answer to that, why don't you call neuro/urology/gi/etc
my supervision requirement is 10% of charts(chosen by me) reviewed within 1 month.when one of the docs in my dept calls off if another doc is not available the pa's cover the shift.
when I work solo in the er as the only clinician present I am not ancillary staff, the nurses, techs, etc who work with me are, but even then I treat them as colleagues and friends. they come to my house for bbq's, etc
and to answer the op's question: I also think PA should be physician associate, it is a much better representation of what we actually do but I am not going to let it bother me too much. I just introduce myself as " hi, my name is "emedpa" one of the emergency medicine pa's" to pts and consultants and then maybe 1% of folks ask what that means and I tell them.
my name tags all say:
emedpa, pa-c, emt-p
emergency med. p.a.

so "assistant" is not a phrase I use unless someone asks what pa stands for.
 
I think "associate" may be good. We use this term in my field for pre-licensed practitioners whom we need to supervise in practice "psych associate". This should have been a legitimate discussion.......

;)
 
psisci said:
I think "associate" may be good. We use this term in my field for pre-licensed practitioners whom we need to supervise in practice "psych associate". This should have been a legitimate discussion.......

;)


THANK YOU!!! lol after 2 pages we are back to the original post! While yes they do assist, for all the schooling, (MDs don't start posting on this about how much school you have had - WE KNOW!) "assistant" just to me doesn't cut the mustard. While this title may not change soon or in fact ever, I just think it had to be said. When I shadowed a PA there was NO DIFFERENCE in how he was treated. Heck, I thought he was a physician! (he was alot nicer than some of them too :p )

After all this bickering on here, I became surprised how alot of these MDs think. It is awesome how much effort in school they do, but to brag and rag on others who haven't and claim "they just can't hack it" really twicks my melon. :smuggrin: (P.S. For all you TypeB-MDs out there that sole purpose to post on this thread is to whine about us "whining" - go back to your MD forum - we aren't whining you are! This is a forum to discuss, not ridicule and make yourself look stupid. Thank you! :D )
 
Why do the MD's come the "ancillary staff" forum section, only to theoretically put "pa's in their place"

Typeb-md says that PA's are very important to medicine, yet he continually states that assistant is for assistant..... and then says that the PA educational 2 years "aint ****"..........

Do they really get off at putting people down, it's almost such as one thinks they are the nice guy because they pick someone up, after they punch them out, it doesn't fly.

I have a friend at stanford med school, obviously one of the better schools in the country, she is finishing year two, and goes to school three days a week... not five, she said the med students spend more time drinking and partying then they did in undergrad. They don't study, besides cramming for an exam, and then again for boards.......... and they have long christmas break and summer break as well...... that doesn't add up to 43 months.

What is it about putting someone down, or then projecting their own confusion onto me by saying I made the wrong choice. If every doctor seems to be an egotist, and really gets off on putting down the education and capabilities of PA's who think the word assistant can cause confusion in patients who think they are getting sub-par medical help.

I responded on this post, but have a little anger from the MD's that seem to post all over this board WHINING about how PA's suck at medicine, they cause problems, they "fake being a physcian", It's tiresome and hurtful.

Just stop it, we don't go to the allopathic forum and put down your skills.... I have had some BAD experiences with some doctors, should I blanketly assume all doctors are bad because of it?

As soon as Doctors are perfect, and PA's aren't allowed to make autonomous decisions in medicine, then maybe your comments will be justified. Until then, you shouldn't need to make derogitory comments at anyone, especially PA's who are (or will be) your colleagues, it should be all of us, helping all of them, as a team, of mutual respect. Don't hate, congratulate!
 
I think it is pretty telling that the person who started this thread is also posting in the "pre-med" forum about her pending application to med school. Kind of supports the MD-wannabe theory :eek:


Just in case you wanted to read it here:

Hey guys, I need to vent. I just took my Physiology final today and it doesn't look too good grade wise for me now, seeing as how the curve will turn out, I think I might have bombed the class (F(possibly)). (and I have never had even any Cs before!)

I am so incredibly bummed because the primary app came out today. I have been looking forward to this day for years but now I am nothing but self-doubt. Of course the same day the app comes out, I might have bombed my first class ever. I am even feeling bad about looking at the app at the chance I might have blow my shot today.

Any advice or words of encouragement? I have been waiting for this whole process my whole life. I only ya'll knew how much I called my folks back home telling them how much med school means to me - I have so much passion for it.

Thanks as always for letting me vent! I love you all!

~But she's worried about the "A" in PA?????? :eek:
 
This thread has rapidly degenerated into garbage. I dont know why everyone has to argue about the same thing over and over again. Does anyone here really care about what Typebmed says (whatever his name is)? Does/should typeb really care about what anyone here says? The answer should be NO to both questions. After many years of writing in forums I have found it is best to just ignore posts/threads that really aggravate you. Its just not worth your time.
 
Want to know something shocking? A lot of us dont go to class at all. We all get a syllabus, and theres a note takeing servce. At my school anyway for most of the classes attendece is optional. In undergrad you can get away with learnig just concepts, but here you need to know the concpets and the minutia. There is massive ammounts of info to accumilate in med school. They expect that if you made to med school you know how you study best and why mess with what's worked to get you this far. I usually dont go to class, but I'm usually studying from 7am to 7 or 8pm then I play. If there is a test comming up I'm up untill 3 or 4 am.

There is a huge difference in depth and bredth of knowledge of the PA students at my shcool who are getting ready to go to on rotations compared to the the second year med students. I witnessed this first hand for two years as a TA the surgery lab that both programs are required to take before rotations.

PA's are great, espically if they know their limatations (this must be constantly reevaluated and revised esp if they keep up with their reading once in practice) OTW they become a liabillity to their employer. I dont think the PA should choose what charts are reviewed, I think the descision to what charts are reviewed should be left up to the physician signing off on them. Granted there are some exceptional PA's out there but you cant judge a profession by it's most exceptional members, nor by it's poorest members.

As far as PA standing for Assistant or Associate, I dont think it really matters.
The defination of associate:
adj : having partial rights and privileges or subordinate status;
"an associate member"; "an associate professor"

The defination of assistant:
adj : of or relating to a person who is subordinate to another

They both mean the same thing if one sounds better so be it.
 
iliketocut said:
I think it is pretty telling that the person who started this thread is also posting in the "pre-med" forum about her pending application to med school. Kind of supports the MD-wannabe theory :eek:


Just in case you wanted to read it here:

Hey guys, I need to vent. I just took my Physiology final today and it doesn't look too good grade wise for me now, seeing as how the curve will turn out, I think I might have bombed the class (F(possibly)). (and I have never had even any Cs before!)

I am so incredibly bummed because the primary app came out today. I have been looking forward to this day for years but now I am nothing but self-doubt. Of course the same day the app comes out, I might have bombed my first class ever. I am even feeling bad about looking at the app at the chance I might have blow my shot today.

Any advice or words of encouragement? I have been waiting for this whole process my whole life. I only ya'll knew how much I called my folks back home telling them how much med school means to me - I have so much passion for it.

Thanks as always for letting me vent! I love you all!

~But she's worried about the "A" in PA?????? :eek:




Alright buddy, get a life. You have some nerve, I said in the beginning I was applying to medical school but I was looking into being a PA because it may very well be something that will fit my life better even though I might have though medschool was what I wanted. What is your problem?

I don't see a reason why not to be able to post here too. I am not going against MDs, PAs, or DOs. (**cough cough like some from before**) I am on this site like everyone else to vent and get information among fellow future medical professionals! I am not going in one direction or another so stop acting like some sort of taddle-tale, by posting my thread from another forum 10 mintues after I even submitted it! Gosh.


You need to find better things to do with your time +pity+



ANYWAY, I am glad to be a part of multiple forums and being able to have such a huge amount of advice/encouragement coming from all angles. Thanks ya'll! Love ya'll that are b*tchin' at me :p


:horns:
 
One other thing. I guess the reason that assistant bothers me so bad is evident in this thread. Look at half the comments "they work to assist the doctor". It isn't so much that this isn't true - but the attitude and sense of superiority that these people get from it. I just find it repulsive.

Like people have said before - it is a team. One is not any good without the other. This "assistant" term just keeps lighting a fire up the asses of these people so they can make themselves feel better about all the time they have wasted crackin' the books for 8 years. I am glad I post on here, because I am glad that I am discovering new avenues and different options that I can explore for my life's career.

Peace.
 
Jezzielin said:
all the time they have wasted crackin' the books for 8 years.

Yeah, comments like that will get you a lot of friends. I would call it more completely trained. Not wasted.
 
" I dont think the PA should choose what charts are reviewed, I think the descision to what charts are reviewed should be left up to the physician signing off on them."

if I was sending bs charts for review I would see your point but I tend to send in the more interesting cases/admits/weird dx etc for review so they don't have to wade through facial lacs, sprained ankles, and uri's....
and at 10% of charts we're talking 3-4/shift or so and if you were the doc wouldn't you rather read about the perfed appy or trauma system activation than uri or dental pain # 3 million?

I also work at another place that requires sigs on every chart but I think they just scan the dx and tx plan and don't read the hx or exam. given the choice of reading 3 notes thoroughly on the most interesting/difficult pts of the day or just stamping 40 charts I would prefer to read the more serious cases if I was the doc.....
 
The purpose of the chart review if I’m not mistaken to evaluate the performance of the PA and assess the diagnosiss and treatment provided in the Physicians name. If it were me that had to sign off I’d rather grab a random sampling and eliminate any bias in my evaluation. It’s not the trauma that you stabilize and manage using a protocall for that’ll bite you in the butt, but rather the Orbital cellulitis that’s mistaken for Pre-septal cellulitis and sent home on Abx or the LBP that also has a some numbness and tingling in the perineal and medial thigh that’ll get you. As one of my PD instructors once said, a runny nose is'nt just a runny nose.

EMEDPA, chart review statement was'nt directed at you, I was just saying that if it was me that had to sign off on a % of someones charts I would want to pick the charts. Espically if I might in any way be liable for their action or inaction.
 
Jezzielin said:
One other thing. I guess the reason that assistant bothers me so bad is evident in this thread. Look at half the comments "they work to assist the doctor". It isn't so much that this isn't true - but the attitude and sense of superiority that these people get from it. I just find it repulsive.

Like people have said before - it is a team. One is not any good without the other. This "assistant" term just keeps lighting a fire up the asses of these people so they can make themselves feel better about all the time they have wasted crackin' the books for 8 years. I am glad I post on here, because I am glad that I am discovering new avenues and different options that I can explore for my life's career.

Peace.

If you think "cracking the books for eight years" is a waste of time, go to PA school. It sounds like that's where you belong anyway. And just to be clear, your initial thread insinuated that you are a PA. I just think that's rude to everyone else.
 
Jezzielin said:
One other thing. I guess the reason that assistant bothers me so bad is evident in this thread. Look at half the comments "they work to assist the doctor". It isn't so much that this isn't true - but the attitude and sense of superiority that these people get from it. I just find it repulsive.

Like people have said before - it is a team. One is not any good without the other. This "assistant" term just keeps lighting a fire up the asses of these people so they can make themselves feel better about all the time they have wasted crackin' the books for 8 years. I am glad I post on here, because I am glad that I am discovering new avenues and different options that I can explore for my life's career.

Peace.

i know i am supposed to be adieu, but i must make one more post for the dirty shots that were taken at me and for the AWESOME BURN that someone layed on Jez.

PA's assist the doctors. This is an incontestable fact. You are probably the same person that says, "No, he's not a trashmaster, he's a sanitation engineer." A rose by any other name...

and if you think it's our superiority, it's actually YOUR inferiority. if you are so butt-hurt by the name, get your MD. PAs are EXTREMELY useful in a clinical setting, and many times, the 7 years necessary for primary care phsycian-ship is a bit much. This, however, doesn't change the fact that PAs are not autonomous healthcare providers. and as was pointed out, it seems you are riding the PA back-up card. so if you wanted to have any credence in your argument, posting about how your real passion lies in becoming a doctor has eliminated any such possibility.

and if we waste so much more time crackin' books then why are you so worried about bombing a test that could potentially eliminate the threat of such tomfoolery. just admit that you're mad that you couldn't cut the bill and may have to settle for the title of 'assistant.'

and to all the other haters, a physician's knowledge is in fact more in-depth and covers a wider gamut than that of the PA. i have already stressed the important niche that the PA fills, but i guess real insecurities persist despite praise.
 
Wow, to me 8 years is completely wasted if you are becoming some of the people I see on this forum, because I don't see these people making good physicians at all! It isn't wasted if you are willing to work as a team and not go ON and ON about how superior you are... damn, this is way too annoying for me.
 
You don't even KNOW the people on this forum. You have no idea what they've been through and sacrificed, you have no idea of how they are with their patients and colleagues. Grow up Jezzelin. The first thing you learn in med school is not to jump to conclusions quickly, because things are not always how they appear. People on this thread have tried to educate you and maybe if you don't like the attitudes you are seeing, med school is not for you. Med students are intelligent, highly competitive, and often (unfortunately) arrogant people. Part of this is because our entire lives, we are always competing against one another, for med school admission, then residency, then fellowship, the list goes on. And, the truth is, people are still in awe of doctors, and you are told over and over again how much you've accomplished. Some people take this too seriously and it goes to their heads.

This is the reality of becoming a physician. And, as you're seeing, the claws come out when people try to downgrade what physicians do or to compare them to ancillary staff members with less education and training. If you end up going to med school, you will understand this perspective after everything you go through. Trust me.
 
I like to think that I'm confident, that I have the walk to back up the talk vs being arrogent in which you have the talk but not the walk.
 
typeB-md said:
i know i am supposed to be adieu, but i must make one more post for the dirty shots that were taken at me and for the AWESOME BURN that someone layed on Jez.

PA's assist the doctors. This is an incontestable fact. You are probably the same person that says, "No, he's not a trashmaster, he's a sanitation engineer." A rose by any other name...

and if you think it's our superiority, it's actually YOUR inferiority. if you are so butt-hurt by the name, get your MD. PAs are EXTREMELY useful in a clinical setting, and many times, the 7 years necessary for primary care phsycian-ship is a bit much. This, however, doesn't change the fact that PAs are not autonomous healthcare providers. and as was pointed out, it seems you are riding the PA back-up card. so if you wanted to have any credence in your argument, posting about how your real passion lies in becoming a doctor has eliminated any such possibility.

and if we waste so much more time crackin' books then why are you so worried about bombing a test that could potentially eliminate the threat of such tomfoolery. just admit that you're mad that you couldn't cut the bill and may have to settle for the title of 'assistant.'

and to all the other haters, a physician's knowledge is in fact more in-depth and covers a wider gamut than that of the PA. i have already stressed the important niche that the PA fills, but i guess real insecurities persist despite praise.

Just for the record, getting an F in a science class would pretty much nix you from the running in any PA applicant pool too.
MD's are more educated, YES. PA's assist the doctors with their practices, YES. Do they assist the doctors in taking care of a particular patient at a particular time, NO. Most PA's see patients on their own, with physician consultation as needed. I agree that assistant is not the right term for that. On the other hand, holding a retractor during a bowel surgery could be appropriately called an assistant. Just my .02.

For the record, I do not assist anybody, unless covering their in house call while they go to a meeting can be called assisting ;) The docs cover my call while I am out as well, is that assisting? I work with one doc at a time, as a team, covering the medicine wards together. I am a subordinate ( I know this, but it is never said or discussed because it doesn't need to, I get it!), but am valued as a member of a team. My Physician partners, colleagues refer to me as such. No one here ever calls me an assistant. I guess I am glad I don't work for people who consider me ancillary staff :thumbup:

Pat
 
1. Being a Physician Assistant to nurses, docs, etc is usually understood. One of my problem is explaining to patients how I am not a medical assistant. People are inundated with commercials for becoming a medical assistant with people on tv wearing long white coats and standing next to a plastic skeleton for a 5 mos degree. I don't know how long MAs have been around but i think the term assistant in general does not conotate negative imagery but patients don't want to be "examined" by these personel.

2. I do assist in every sense of the word. I see my own patients, I help with the physician's patients, i'll draw blood or put in an IV if the RN cannot do it but nonetheless the people I work with do not consider me ancillary staff.
 
This has been an interesting discussion, but I wonder why the question was originally asked. I have no problem with the "assistant" part of the PA title. Why, because I am comfortable in my skin and realize I am a notch lower on the medical profession's food chain. I can deal with it. Associate seems to be an accurate term for use however, in the end, I don't care. Why? I am doing what I want to do.

After 19 years as a firefighter/paramedic, I decided to move on and have a greater effect on the long-term outcome of the patients that I treat. I have a BS in biomedical sciences and scored double-digits across the board and scored reasonably well on my writing sample on my MCATs. After applying to med school, I woke up one morning to get ready for soccer with my 3 daughters and realized that medical school wouldn't be good for my kids. I'm not a MD wannabe. I just want to do more for my patients.

Do docs have more exposure to information? Absolutely! Are they always as proficient as other health care providers? Sometimes not. We all have our specialties. Case in point: today I found out how to make an ortho surgeon crap his pants….just put a dead guy in his waiting room.

While he has a tremendous amount of knowledge, he couldn't effect a competent resuscitation on his patient. We came in, 15 mins later, patient has a pulse with good BP, good skin color, and resp effort. Does that make me anymore knowledgable? Maybe, in the area of out-of-hosp resusc. However, don't ask me to replace your hip. I did what I was good at. (Sorry for the preposition at the end of a sentence) He hasn't seen a resuscitation since he was an intern. I certainly don't think anything less of his knowledge or abilities nor do I hold myself in higher esteem because I did something he couldn't.

I made the decision to apply to PA school not because I could not go the "extra mile," but because I chose not to. I am OK with that. Maybe before applying to PA school, we all need to ask ourselves if we are OK with the “assistant” role and ask ourselves why we want to do this.

If I was so caught up in titles and names, I would want people to call me "Master Smith" like physicians are called "doctor." After all, my degree will be a Master of Science in Medicine.....In the end we just have to show mutual respect and understand our limitations, whether they be clinical, intellectual, or social.
 
Good points! FYI, people with a terminal masters degree are referred to as Mr, Ms worldwide. Nobody is called Master-something. Just a small point. I have known many PAs and NPs who do not correct when they are called Dr.

;)
 
PSISCI:

Point taken. I was trying to make an absurd point. I don't care how I am referred to, as long as it is respectful. I was aware of the Mr./Ms. thing, but wonder why some physicians don't refer to others by these titles. Whether you are a patient, fellow provider, nurse, or "ancillary staff," as someone else describe earlier in this thread, why isn't everyone addressed with the same amount of respect that we afford MD/DOs, PhDs, etc...?

Again, I don't care about titles or names. Maybe just a little bit of respect and understanding on both sides of this argument would be nice.

Regards
 
PSISCI:

Good point on PA/NPs not correcting the doctor thing....

My firefighters call me "doc," just like military folks refer to medics and corpmen. I don't correct them. That is their way of showing respect to me as their paramedic. Clinical medicine however, is a different issue. I would feel really uncomfortable not clearing the air with my patients that referred to me as a doctor. I want folks to have a very clear understanding that I am not a doctor!

With that said, I also want my future PA patients to have a clear understanding of my education and abilities.

Good pick up on that doctor thing. That just erks me when I see that situation.

Have a good weekend.
 
WMUPAS said:
This has been an interesting discussion, but I wonder why the question was originally asked. I have no problem with the "assistant" part of the PA title. Why, because I am comfortable in my skin and realize I am a notch lower on the medical profession's food chain. I can deal with it. Associate seems to be an accurate term for use however, in the end, I don't care. Why? I am doing what I want to do.

After 19 years as a firefighter/paramedic, I decided to move on and have a greater effect on the long-term outcome of the patients that I treat. I have a BS in biomedical sciences and scored double-digits across the board and scored reasonably well on my writing sample on my MCATs. After applying to med school, I woke up one morning to get ready for soccer with my 3 daughters and realized that medical school wouldn't be good for my kids. I'm not a MD wannabe. I just want to do more for my patients.

Do docs have more exposure to information? Absolutely! Are they always as proficient as other health care providers? Sometimes not. We all have our specialties. Case in point: today I found out how to make an ortho surgeon crap his pants….just put a dead guy in his waiting room.

While he has a tremendous amount of knowledge, he couldn't effect a competent resuscitation on his patient. We came in, 15 mins later, patient has a pulse with good BP, good skin color, and resp effort. Does that make me anymore knowledgable? Maybe, in the area of out-of-hosp resusc. However, don't ask me to replace your hip. I did what I was good at. (Sorry for the preposition at the end of a sentence) He hasn't seen a resuscitation since he was an intern. I certainly don't think anything less of his knowledge or abilities nor do I hold myself in higher esteem because I did something he couldn't.

I made the decision to apply to PA school not because I could not go the "extra mile," but because I chose not to. I am OK with that. Maybe before applying to PA school, we all need to ask ourselves if we are OK with the “assistant” role and ask ourselves why we want to do this.

If I was so caught up in titles and names, I would want people to call me "Master Smith" like physicians are called "doctor." After all, my degree will be a Master of Science in Medicine.....In the end we just have to show mutual respect and understand our limitations, whether they be clinical, intellectual, or social.

Excellent post. Too bad more people don't have such a healthy (and logical) perspective on things.
 
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