Why isn't pre-med considered some general science major yet

[inycepoo]

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I was in the Northeast...a (science) major was ~9 classes in one department, though you could sub in double from a related major (aka 2 bios = 1 chem for a chem major) for ONE of your 9. There were some required cores and one accelerated class that counted double (but only single towards graduation). There were more requirements than that, of course, such as x number physical chem courses, x number of 300 levels, and x number of labs, but still.
The humanities were similar...though they had all sorts of bizarre requirements about which historical period their classes had to cover.
No minors at my school, though. And the gen requirements were pretty steep...3 classes from Math/Sci, 3 from Humanities (and only 1 100 level English), 3 from social studies, 2 writing intensives, a diversity class, and a quantitative req.

Sounds like my private liberal artsy university lolz (not LAC)

 

[kyamh]

The problem with now "specializing" in a field is that you can go through all of college and "major" in some survey major like pre-med and never actually become a more learned individual. Part of college is taking upper level courses that force you to work more independently, think better, communicate with your peers, work in small groups, be more responsible for your learning. Most of the pre-med requirements are all the same type of work (lecture, pset, lab quiz, lab report)and half the time you are re-learning material many students covered in high school. At least Biology majors could take seminars like Stem Cells, Bioinformatics, etc.

 

[ChemProtege]

interdisciplinary, if any

 

[Cartoons]

Sheesh, just send us to trade school why not. My school has a "pre-professional biology" degree that's a catch-all for pre-dent/med/vet etc. It's a nightmare. All the freshmen who express interest in med school get slingshot that way, and the program is run by biology advisors who seem to think that a bio degree is the gate and key to med school.

The idea of a "pre-X" major sounds to me like a big reinforcement for the gunner mentality. It's majoring in "getting into a graduate institution that has less than 50% admissions rate per cycle."

 

[wiloghby]

As others have stated, I think the best way to handle the increased pre-req demands of the new MCAT and medical school curricula is to have an alternate track for general education requirements for those intending to puruse a healthcare career.

Some have suggested an Associate's degree program, which would work, and still allow you to transfer to a 4-year university and specialize in your major at a higher level.

I think it would be neat if some 4-year universities tried adding a different general institute requirement track for those matriculating as pre-health majors. That is, they would have slightly modified required base coursework for graduation compared to those who do not have constraints on which courses they have to take. So you could have a "general institute requirements" and "pre-health institute requirements" and satisfying either set, along with your major, would lead to graduation. Those who change to pre-health later in their college career, can just take whichever classes are pre-health specific as electives later on, and possibly graduate a little later.

It's just an idea. Luckily I don't have to worry about the 2015 MCAT! That was the number three thing I was thankful for on Thanksgiving this year.

 

[MusicDOc124]

Some schools actually have it as a major now. I go to Philadelphia University where Pre-Med is a major, not just a track.

 

[3838]

Major in Public Health. Psych, sociology, anatomy and physiology, bio, gen chem, and orgo are all required courses. Also, at our school, the advisors work with it to "replace" some requirements with others.

Our school of public health actually has a B.S. in Public Health and a B.A. Perhaps some schools could do that with other majors? I think for some things like Econ, Psych, Sociology, and Anthropology, this could seriously work.

Also, I'm really grateful for my undergraduate major. I feel like I've learned a lot, and it's given me a very specific and fulfilling path to look forward to post-med school, more so than just an MD.

 

[Ace-Co-A]

Well, in my case I was a Biophysics major. Biochem, cell bio, gen bio, organic I, chem I, phys I&II, calc all counted towards my major. Then English is a general university requirement. I also had to take two social science classes as part of my generals, so I took soc and econ (but could have taken psych). Pretty much the only two "extra" classes I had to take were organic II and chem II.

If you choose a sensible major this isn't so hard to fit in. Most schools have gen ed requirements and the sociology/psychology/english can all typically fit within that. If you consider that the average student is taking 120 credits before they graduate, I don't think they're asking that much. It simply restricts the free extracurriculars that you can take a small bit.

I agree. My major was biochemistry and easily fit in all of the new AAMC requirements with room to take very interesting electives in my field (and several outside my field, as well!) as an upperclassman.

 

[DrEnderW]

Pre-med should never be a major because of the simple fact that a huuuuge percentage of pre-med students don't end up with a medical school admission. The degree would be worthless for all of those people. I think a college degree should leave you with a set of skills that allows you to obtain a job in your field of choice. Mastering the pre-med requirements makes you a master of nothing and would even make the PhD route difficult. You couldn't even be a competent lab tech. The median MCAT is like 24-25 so imagine the tens of thousands of students that would make it through the "pre-med degree" to take then MCAT and end up with a very small chance of becoming a physician.

 

[NickNaylor]

Pre-med should never be a major because of the simple fact that a huuuuge percentage of pre-med students don't end up with a medical school admission. The degree would be worthless for all of those people. I think a college degree should leave you with a set of skills that allows you to obtain a job in your field of choice. Mastering the pre-med requirements makes you a master of nothing and would even make the PhD route difficult. You couldn't even be a competent lab tech. The median MCAT is like 24-25 so imagine the tens of thousands of students that would make it through the "pre-med degree" to take then MCAT and end up with a very small chance of becoming a physician.

Exactly. "Pre-med" provides you with enough education to do absolutely nothing, and while no one would like to think that they'll be one of the people that doesn't get in, that's the reality. This is why everyone tells you to major in something you like and/or will give you an opportunity to have a decent career should you not become a physician.

 

[Mad Jack]

Especially with the New MCAT

I find it ridiculous that the AAMC is now requiring people to take

Psychology, Biochemistry, sociology, Chem (x2), Orgo (x2), Physics (x2), Bio (x2), Calc, English (x2)


That's 42 credits right there which is more than what's required for some majors

Edit I forgot about lab which would be 1 credit * 9
so 51 credits

Seriously, had I gone to a school with stringent core curriculum requirements like columbia and was taking the 2015 mcat or lacked AP Credits in the Math/English thing, It would be nearly impossible to take all of those classes while doing my undergrad major classes which is like other 40 without taking summer classes and stuff

You are basically forced to know for a fact you want to be a doctor or be prepared to be in school for a long time with bost bacs

Maybe it is something to do with the fact that of those 52 credits, almost all will be included in your general requirements for the first 2-3 years of a B.S. degree. And the fact that most of the required courses are 100-200 level. It'd be a major without any substance, because you're just scratching the surface of so many different things. And if you didn't get into med school, that'd basically leave you as a jack of no trades and master of none to boot. You're overqualified to flip burgers, but underqualified for any real profession.

Of the people that I met who were pre-med in college, I'd say only 1 out of 10 actually eventually went to med school. By having a real major, most of the other 9 could go on to other things once they couldn't cut making it into medical school.

 

[lucitrea]

I wouldn't mind the changes if they took out physics and calc and replaced it with biochem psych soc and Spanish.

If you can add classes, you can also subtract classes right?

 

[KnuxNole]

Pre-med should never be a major because of the simple fact that a huuuuge percentage of pre-med students don't end up with a medical school admission. The degree would be worthless for all of those people. I think a college degree should leave you with a set of skills that allows you to obtain a job in your field of choice. Mastering the pre-med requirements makes you a master of nothing and would even make the PhD route difficult. You couldn't even be a competent lab tech. The median MCAT is like 24-25 so imagine the tens of thousands of students that would make it through the "pre-med degree" to take then MCAT and end up with a very small chance of becoming a physician.

Agreed. And for those who said "Well, it's the same as being a bio major...Both are useless" is dead wrong. Biology majors are experts in that field of study. Pre med majors are experts at...requirements to get into med school. After all, if you branch out, network, and use the degree that you got, you can get jobs. Please dont be like those lame Occupy Wall Street people that needed to occupy a desk instead.

 

[Lucca]

Major in Public Health. Psych, sociology, anatomy and physiology, bio, gen chem, and orgo are all required courses. Also, at our school, the advisors work with it to "replace" some requirements with others.

Our school of public health actually has a B.S. in Public Health and a B.A. Perhaps some schools could do that with other majors? I think for some things like Econ, Psych, Sociology, and Anthropology, this could seriously work.

Also, I'm really grateful for my undergraduate major. I feel like I've learned a lot, and it's given me a very specific and fulfilling path to look forward to post-med school, more so than just an MD.

Agreed. Also, it should be noted that a significant chunk of the PH work force (a group that was trained/created when AIDS was breaking out decades ago) is ready to retire. A professor at the PH grad school here told me they are really pushing for a longer/more rigorous PH degree in undergrad and encouraging large amounts of students to go that route if they are interested in the health field in order to account for this.

 

[akaMondo]

I don't see the benefit of requiring a psychology class (I don't know anything about sociology aside from the fact my econ professor hates it) for the MCAT or med school. It doesn't teach you to think critically or be sensitive to the psychological issues many people come in contact with. You learn a set of vocabulary and a highly simplified and therefore useless set of "symptoms" for mental illnesses. It in no way prepares me to better deal with the poor schizophrenic person seeking care at the clinic aside from knowing that its prevalence is ≈1.1%.

Came here to say this. Thinking back to my introductory psych course, we learned tons of history/the big names in psych, their major theories/contributions, a lot of terms, and very over-generalized symptoms for each "major" mental illness (OCD, BPD, schizophrenia, ADD, etc.). I learned nothing about how to deal with, communicate with, or do anything else with mentally ill people as a whole. I'm 0% better equipped to deal with a mentally ill person than I was before my intro to psych class.

 

[DokterMom]

Pre-med should never be a major because of the simple fact that a huuuuge percentage of pre-med students don't end up with a medical school admission. The degree would be worthless for all of those people. I think a college degree should leave you with a set of skills that allows you to obtain a job in your field of choice. Mastering the pre-med requirements makes you a master of nothing and would even make the PhD route difficult. You couldn't even be a competent lab tech. The median MCAT is like 24-25 so imagine the tens of thousands of students that would make it through the "pre-med degree" to take then MCAT and end up with a very small chance of becoming a physician.

Exactly. How would you like to be out in the real world looking for work with a degree that, by virtue of it's very name, implies that you failed at your intended goal? That every job you ever apply for is a have-to-settle-for 'Plan B' fallback? That you weren't motivated enough, bright enough, whatever-enough to make Plan A happen?

 

[Chir0nex]

Came here to say this. Thinking back to my introductory psych course, we learned tons of history/the big names in psych, their major theories/contributions, a lot of terms, and very over-generalized symptoms for each "major" mental illness (OCD, BPD, schizophrenia, ADD, etc.). I learned nothing about how to deal with, communicate with, or do anything else with mentally ill people as a whole. I'm 0% better equipped to deal with a mentally ill person than I was before my intro to psych class.

I don't think the point is necessarily to deal with only clinical psych. At my UG, intro psych covered basic neuroscience, theories of learning/cognition, and some basic mental illness. Each of those topics is relevant to med school and are not covered by other courses (neuro was not covered in either of my bio courses). Neuro and psych illness are obviously relevant, and the as schools become more and more intent on teaching integrated team based medicine understanding different approaches to learning and thinking will become more and more important. Including psych as a premed is a way to cover these topics in a basic manner that is fairly comparable to some of the other topics covered at the pre-med level. Can you honestly say that your genetics class taught you anything about how to deal or treat someone with an inherited illness, or that learning about the kreb cycle explained how to address metabolic syndromes? The point of pre-med is to expose us to a broad but pretty basic range of the material we need to know later, and then tests us on how we cope with it.

 

[nOchemallday]

Especially with the New MCAT

I find it ridiculous that the AAMC is now requiring people to take

Psychology, Biochemistry, sociology, Chem (x2), Orgo (x2), Physics (x2), Bio (x2), Calc, English (x2)


That's 42 credits right there which is more than what's required for some majors

Edit I forgot about lab which would be 1 credit * 9
so 51 credits

Seriously, had I gone to a school with stringent core curriculum requirements like columbia and was taking the 2015 mcat or lacked AP Credits in the Math/English thing, It would be nearly impossible to take all of those classes while doing my undergrad major classes which is like other 40 without taking summer classes and stuff

You are basically forced to know for a fact you want to be a doctor or be prepared to be in school for a long time with bost bacs

What you've described is more akin to a minor than a major. And frankly it seems appropriate if you are going to dedicate your first 2 years of medical school to hard science; you ought to know what science is.

Almost unanimously regardless of your major, you will have to take a year of english and a year of science gen eds. Most majors will also have you take some level of math, which in fact is not required unless it is a prerequisite to physics. This is independent of AP credits which means you've likely already completed 6/15 classes and 2/8 labs (I'm baffled by where the 9th lab comes from). That leaves 9 classes and 6 labs left, most of which are at the 101 level and should not be difficult even if they are "weed out" classes. If you're interested in becoming a doctor, I think it's perfectly fair to expect you to prepare yourself with a whopping 9 classes and 6 labs. This is why you have things like 1) technical electives, 2) humanities electives, 3) free electives!

You're asked to complete 33 extra credits (assuming 3 credits per class and 1 credit per lab) over 8 terms which is about 1 class + 1 lab per term. Maybe I'm still missing it, but I fail to see how 1 class + 1 lab a term counts as a "general science major." I go to a quarter system school and am on track to complete my double major with 211 credits (NOT including AP credits) in the classic 4 years, all sumers off, without going over 20credits/term. This is based on 1hour=1credit for lectures, and 1 hour = 0.5 credits for labs and recitation. In Semesters this is equivalent to 141 credits (again not including APs). Use your electives on those 33 extra "pre-med" credits and go a little bit above and beyond what a minor is and boom, you're premed; congratulations on getting ready to work your a** off for the rest of your life.

 

[notbobtrustme]

**** i double major'ed in Bio and Chem and I still had enough time to take goof off classes. If the new AAMC pre-reqs are onerous, you're doing it wrong. Most of the extra classes you need to take are Gen Ed classes, so it'll count towards graduation/major regardless.