Why the LECOM hate?

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A passing COMLEX score is 400. And your sole acceptance to this point (NSUCOM) has something like an 89% first time pass rate if I recall correctly from my interview a few years ago. I'll take my 97% or so at my "low tier" DO school and save an extra hundred grand, thank you.

But it's not a matter of being "satisfied with passing." Average board scores aren't typically released by schools (though LECOM is above the national average there as well), so we go with what they do put out there: first time pass rate. And while there isn't a perfect correlation, you can pretty safely assume that a school that has a higher first time pass rate will probably have a higher average score as well.

There's a few things that I know I missed out on by declining my NSU acceptance, but I'm confident I'll end up with a higher board score at LECOM in PBL than I would've wasting my time in a lecture hall at NSU.

That's not to say that there aren't valid criticisms of LECOM, but they rarely get touched on in pre-osteo. There's a surprising number of people who have come to like coming to class in professional attire, the no food or drink thing is a minor annoyance, and much of the administration's overbearingness can be avoided by just acting like an adult. The further you get from Erie, the less of an issue it is. But again, I'm a PBL student. The lecture students seem to be considerably less happy.

The biggest potential shortcoming I can see is clinical rotations. It's my understanding that Bradenton's sites aren't as good, and they still haven't worked out a good system for divying up sites between Erie and Seton Hill. Nevertheless, it seems that things turn out okay, and LECOM grads are well-prepared in the end. There isn't any fancy technology or simulators, but I don't think those are required to be a good doctor, and there are occasional opportunities for the northern campuses to use the facilities of some area hospitals to do those things.

We're beginning the process of setting up rotations now, and it's an unpleasant, anxiety inducing experience that has had me question coming here a few times, but I'm starting to come around and realize that things will be okay, and that I made the right decision in attending LECOM. They've added some sites recently that I expect will be pretty good, and they're already demonstrating improvements that could make them excellent in the coming years.

My point and opinion has apparently strayed far from where it was originally. All I said before was that I don't understand why LECOM's high pass rate is a strong selling point for pre-meds.

Edit: And the "low tier" comment was inappropriate and was just a reaction to what I felt was a rude post. I don't know where LECOM-B falls in the DO school rankings and I frankly don't care because I think it is irrelevant.. You make a good point about PBL vs Lecture and how PBL is better for you. If I get into more than one place, I'm going to attend whichever school I feel I'll be more comfortable and better able to perform well at regardless of its perceived ranking amongst pre-meds.

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Let me use a clever analogy. Choosing a med school is like choosing a beautiful woman. Really, all the women (med schools) you're choosing from are pretty good looking (if you're goin american know wut i mean cuz them carib ones just dont do it for me) so really you cant go wrong with your choice. It all comes down to personal preference beyond that, where do you see yourself as being the most happy at/with lol.
 
My point and opinion has apparently strayed far from where it was originally. All I said before was that I don't understand why LECOM's high pass rate is a strong selling point for pre-meds.

It's one of the few objective measurements available to applicants, and it's reasonable to assume that a higher pass rate correlates with higher average scores. Averages would probably be a better thing to look at, but few schools make that information public.
 
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I went to a lecom-b interview and just did not like it. Im not insulting the school and this is all my opinion but through the interview i felt like i didnt really matter, lol, just a cog in the machine. When i first walked in the building, I was welcomed by a rude security guard who was a jerk to the interviewees. Great way to start the day. I don't like mandatory attendance..come on im 23 years old paying for my tuition..this isnt high school. Dress code is just a big no no for me. And tbh I couldnt get into PBL. There wasnt really a personal touch,i felt like I just blended in and it didnt seem fun to me. You cant even have water bottles...like some of their polircies are real hardcore, i felt like they were half med school and half military school.

Pretty much agree with everything you just said, especially the bold. First impressions are important, and LECOM messed them up. Contrast this with somewhere like Nova, where you felt welcomed from the minute you stepped through the front door.

Also, in regards to the "dress code ain't a big deal coz you're gonna be a doctor one day and you'll need to follow policies and dress appropriately" argument, here's my smart-ass reply: some of us have very little interest in the traditional authoritarian doctor in white coat and shirt and tie, and would rather get down and dirty in scrubs in fields like EM or surgery. So technically speaking, wearing scrubs every day to school is better "practice" for us anyway. Also... studying in a shirt and tie gets old very fast.
 
While some may consider OB/GYN a primary care specialty, EM and general sugery certainly are not. Especially not surgery. You might need to learn the meaning of "primary care". You're right, I haven't started med school, but I've had a front row seat to my girlfriend's experience from M1 through the beginning of M3.

You say my statistic is not reputable, but you don't provide one of your own to disprove mine. Show me a single match list where FM/IM/Peds makes up >50%. Also, I honestly can't take anything you say seriously until you learn the difference between your and you're.

MedPR, I've met you in person and have been reading some of your posts. I'm not trying to start problems with you but the remarks you make are arrogant and presumptuous to say the least. I really think you need to chill and learn to talk to people with a little more respect. I understand that the poster called you out first but don't state that a DO school is in the lower tier when you haven't even started medical school yet. And that is not to rouse you or put you down because I'm in the same boat; nevertheless, I don't write in the manner that you do. I hope this doesn't turn into some bashing. I don't have any problems with you. I just think that you could finesse your rhetoric a little more.

That said, I personally don't like LECOM because PBL isn't for me but I would never bad talk the school. It was an amazing experience for me to be able to be interviewed there and I had a great time. The students are hella smart and I know that they will be successful. I think picking a medical school is so specific to the individual that no one should ever generalize one school or the other. Good luck to all and I hope I didn't offend anyone.
 
I don't think dress code or mandatory attendance has anything to do with it. NSU has both and it doesn't get hate like LECOM.

There's quite a difference between wearing pajamas to class every day and wearing shirt/tie.

Also, NSU gives you the option to dress formally with a white coat. You aren't required to wear scrubs. I therefore feel this is an unfair comparison.
 
There's quite a difference between wearing pajamas to class every day and wearing shirt/tie.

Also, NSU gives you the option to dress formally with a white coat. You aren't required to wear scrubs. I therefore feel this is an unfair comparison.

A dress code is a dress code for some people. I love the dress code personally (the scrubs part). My point was that I don't think that's what's differing people from LECOM necessarily. Even if NSU had a completely professional dress code I would still go there. But I guess you do have a point..most people are cool with being told they have to wear comfy scrubs over a shirt and tie.
 
A dress code is a dress code for some people. I love the dress code personally (the scrubs part). My point was that I don't think that's what's differing people from LECOM necessarily. Even if NSU had a completely professional dress code I would still go there. But I guess you do have a point..most people are cool with being told they have to wear comfy scrubs over a shirt and tie.

It's amusing how you notice the difference in attire from the first week at NSU compared to every week afterward. First week- >95% of the class in professional clothes. Second week- about 20% of the class in professional clothes. Third week on- the only time you see us in professional clothes is if we have IGC that day, otherwise it's just a sea of ciel blue scrubs.

Back to the topic at hand. Having been accepted to both schools, I can personally say that I did not mind the policies at LECOM-B because once you get into PBL you don't have to be on campus all day every day if you don't want to. Yes, LECOM-B would have been a lot cheaper than NSU, but I know I made the right choice for ME. I enjoyed my interview day at LECOM-B, but for me I didn't want to take a gamble on PBL (despite what others have posted regarding performance on boards). The administration at LECOM-B can potentially feel overbearing for some people, but as long as you act professional and like an adult, I don't think flying under the radar (so to speak) would have been that difficult.
 
No they aren't.

I've heard of OBGYN as primary and as a girl..it makes sense. I can understand EM too, because a large amount of people coming in are sore throat/chronic pain/leg swelling for months on end..things that should be seen by a family doc. I don't get gen surg though..but I'm just a lowly premed.
 
I've heard of OBGYN as primary and as a girl..it makes sense. I can understand EM too, because a large amount of people coming in are sore throat/chronic pain/leg swelling for months on end..things that should be seen by a family doc. I don't get gen surg though..but I'm just a lowly premed.

for some reason i always pictured you as a guy. lol
 
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I don't mind a dress code to class and stuff, but I don't like the idea of having to put on a shirt and tie just to go to the library. I actually find professional attire very comfortable, but I don't want to sit and study in it for hours at a time. Plus, I simply don't have that large of a professional wardrobe.[/QUOTE]

The professional attire when I went there was just during normal business hours then you could change after 5 into whatever you wanted. Many students study at Wegmans or Mercyhurst library anyway so its really a non-issue
 
Let me use a clever analogy. Choosing a med school is like choosing a beautiful woman. Really, all the women (med schools) you're choosing from are pretty good looking (if you're goin american know wut i mean cuz them carib ones just dont do it for me) so really you cant go wrong with your choice. It all comes down to personal preference beyond that, where do you see yourself as being the most happy at/with lol.

2017 ACOM Social Chair indeed. :laugh:

It's one of the few objective measurements available to applicants, and it's reasonable to assume that a higher pass rate correlates with higher average scores. Averages would probably be a better thing to look at, but few schools make that information public.

I guess that is a reasonable assumption.. one that I hadn't made or even considered before your prior post. At DMU's interview day they give out their class average as well as the national DO average. I agree that it would be nice to see the average from all schools. Then again, you'd also have to take into consideration the caliber of students each school is accepting. For example, while we know that MCAT/GPA have little (if any) correlation with board scores, it would be reasonable to expect that a class of 3.5/30 students would have a higher average board score than a class of 3.0/22 students.

MedPR, I've met you in person and have been reading some of your posts. I'm not trying to start problems with you but the remarks you make are arrogant and presumptuous to say the least. I really think you need to chill and learn to talk to people with a little more respect. I understand that the poster called you out first but don't state that a DO school is in the lower tier when you haven't even started medical school yet. And that is not to rouse you or put you down because I'm in the same boat; nevertheless, I don't write in the manner that you do. I hope this doesn't turn into some bashing. I don't have any problems with you. I just think that you could finesse your rhetoric a little more.

That said, I personally don't like LECOM because PBL isn't for me but I would never bad talk the school. It was an amazing experience for me to be able to be interviewed there and I had a great time. The students are hella smart and I know that they will be successful. I think picking a medical school is so specific to the individual that no one should ever generalize one school or the other. Good luck to all and I hope I didn't offend anyone.

You're not the first, and you won't be the last. I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with what I post or how I post them so you don't have to worry about it turning into a bashing. The post you quoted wasn't in any way disrespectful. Perhaps the prior one was, but the one you quoted certainly was not. When I'm writing to people on a forum like this I honestly am not concerned about being cordial or friendly. When I ask for SDN's opinions about my own situation I expect blunt and honest responses. We all have personal relationships outside of SDN for coddling and support. I treat people on SDN the way I would like them to treat me. Most of the time I don't mean to be disrespectful, though I realize my posts indicate the opposite.

Edit: But cmon, does anyone besides that guy honestly believe general surgery is a primary care specialty?

The professional attire when I went there was just during normal business hours then you could change after 5 into whatever you wanted. Many students study at Wegmans or Mercyhurst library anyway so its really a non-issue

I see. Well, I admittedly haven't done much research on LECOM and I had just read in the past (on SDN) that the dress-code was "in effect" whenever students were on campus.
 
While some may consider OB/GYN a primary care specialty, EM and general sugery certainly are not. Especially not surgery. You might need to learn the meaning of "primary care". You're right, I haven't started med school, but I've had a front row seat to my girlfriend's experience from M1 through the beginning of M3.

You say my statistic is not reputable, but you don't provide one of your own to disprove mine. Show me a single match list where FM/IM/Peds makes up >50%. Also, I honestly can't take anything you say seriously until you learn the difference between your and you're.
Apparently you're the type of person who likes to call people out on grammar on the internet? hahaha. No, just, no. I guess you're also someone who likes to ignore relevant discussion. I stated that I'm typing from an ipad. I proved you wrong about your crappy assuptions/heresay about lecom not letting people take the test. But ignore it to complain about grammar. Its the internet, who freakin cares.
I don't need to provide statistics when your statistics are complete BS. You can't just pull your own opinions off of fictional match lists and call it statistics. Match lists are completely worthless and anyone actually in med school knows this. Its all about individual preference.

You call out my institution for something that is completely wrong, and expect me not to retaliate? I chose lecom over acceptances from both USF and FSU, because I believe in the DO philosophy and can save a lot of money. When some pre-med with absolutely no experience in med school tries to bash my school for something he has no knowledge of Im gonna call you out and not be nice about it.
Now i'm also the person who calls a spade a spade. If someone who knows you in real life calls you a dbag (but did it more polite), then i'm not gonna argue anymore. I wish you the best in whatever school you choose, im just glad its not the same as mine.
 
2017 ACOM Social Chair indeed. :laugh:



I guess that is a reasonable assumption.. one that I hadn't made or even considered before your prior post. At DMU's interview day they give out their class average as well as the national DO average. I agree that it would be nice to see the average from all schools. Then again, you'd also have to take into consideration the caliber of students each school is accepting. For example, while we know that MCAT/GPA have little (if any) correlation with board scores, it would be reasonable to expect that a class of 3.5/30 students would have a higher average board score than a class of 3.0/22 students.



You're not the first, and you won't be the last. I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with what I post or how I post them so you don't have to worry about it turning into a bashing. The post you quoted wasn't in any way disrespectful. Perhaps the prior one was, but the one you quoted certainly was not. When I'm writing to people on a forum like this I honestly am not concerned about being cordial or friendly. When I ask for SDN's opinions about my own situation I expect blunt and honest responses. We all have personal relationships outside of SDN for coddling and support. I treat people on SDN the way I would like them to treat me. Most of the time I don't mean to be disrespectful, though I realize my posts indicate the opposite.

Edit: But cmon, does anyone besides that guy honestly believe general surgery is a primary care specialty?



I see. Well, I admittedly haven't done much research on LECOM and I had just read in the past (on SDN) that the dress-code was "in effect" whenever students were on campus.

Yeah, I quoted the wrong thing but I'm pretty sure you understood what I meant; which is the reason why you addressed it. It is quite noticeable when a person addresses arbitrary issues in order for them to win the little battles (i.e. when you made fun of the poster for writing your instead of you're, you understood what he meant). It is a tactic utilized by people who cannot argue well: arguing the arguer versus arguing the argument. Moreover, being blunt and honest doesn't equate to being rude and tactless. Simply put, if you cannot give honest advice in a way that doesn't make you sound like a prick then why give it in the first place? Most people will not listen to advice from a prick so why give it if your intention is to help others? If you were to change you diction a bit you could persuade an incredible amount of people (more than you do now, obviously) given your knowledge in regards to the medical school application process. Lastly, I want to commend you on the way that handled all of this. You could have easily berated me with insults and slander, yet you addressed me with respect: something that I greatly appreciate. I hope you understand where I am coming from and if you must we can just agree to disagree.Thanks.
 
images
 

I hope this wasn't directed towards me. MedPR has contributed a ridiculous amount to this website and I'm not one to start controversy over the internet. I just disagreed with certain aspects on how he goes about giving advice but who am I? I'm not the internet police..
 
Everyone calm down. MedPR (and later myself) were not stating that OB and ER and Gen Surg aren't considered Primary Care out of some passive-aggressive disdain for those specialities.

We simply mean that for the purposes of categorisation and statistical analysis, PC does not include the aforementioned specialties. We can't have any meaningful discussions on pass rates and residency matches if we don't at least agree on some basic premises.

How you personally feel about it is irrelevant. For example, I strongly feel that emergency medicine should be considered primary care for the purposes of government rural/underserved loan repayment schemes. After all, many smaller emergency departments are seeing as high as 80% "fast track" cases. Yet this opinion of mine does not change the fact that as of September 2012 emergency medicine is not considered primary care.

/rant.
 
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Everyone calm down. MedPR (and later myself) were not stating that OB and ER and Gen Surg aren't considered Primary Care out of some passive-aggressive disdain for those specialities.

We simply mean that for the purposes of categorisation and statistical analysis, PC does not include the aforementioned specialties. We can't have any meaningful discussions on pass rates and residency matches if we don't at least agree on some basic premises.

How you personally feel about it is irrelevant. For example, I strongly feel that emergency medicine should be considered primary care for the purposes of government rural/underserved loan repayment schemes. After all, many smaller emergency departments are seeing as high as 80% "fast track" cases. Yet this opinion of mine does not change the fact that as of September 2012 emergency medicine is not considered primary care.

/rant.

People actually thought I was putting down primary care or general surg or OBGYN or EM? I wasn't. I was just pointing out that they are not the same thing.

Primary care = FM/IM/general Peds. And even though many women see an OBGYN as their PCP, that doesn't mean OBGYN is a primary are specialty. Same goes for EM. I would address why General Surgery is not a primary care specialty, but I can't even think of a reason why someone would think it is. And if I can't think of an argument for it, I certainly cannot formulate an argument against it.

My family sees a Rheumatologist as their PCP. Rheum isn't a primary care specialty though.

Edit: this post wasn't directed at toxicwombat. I just wasn't aware of the confusion before reading his post.
 
Poor OP's thread was hijacked by a mad man. Maybe we should just let the thread go back to being a normal conversation about LECOM. I feel like all the normal med students who had some good points were overshadowed by irrelevant craziness and personal attacks
 
Everyone calm down. MedPR (and later myself) were not stating that OB and ER and Gen Surg aren't considered Primary Care out of some passive-aggressive disdain for those specialities.

We simply mean that for the purposes of categorisation and statistical analysis, PC does not include the aforementioned specialties. We can't have any meaningful discussions on pass rates and residency matches if we don't at least agree on some basic premises.

How you personally feel about it is irrelevant. For example, I strongly feel that emergency medicine should be considered primary care for the purposes of government rural/underserved loan repayment schemes. After all, many smaller emergency departments are seeing as high as 80% "fast track" cases. Yet this opinion of mine does not change the fact that as of September 2012 emergency medicine is not considered primary care.

/rant.
The National Health Service Corps considers residency in Ob-Gyn a fulfillment of a primary care obligation. EM and G Surg are not. Personally I don't think Ob-Gyn is actually primary care in the usual sense but the government does.
 
Poor OP's thread was hijacked by a mad man. Maybe we should just let the thread go back to being a normal conversation about LECOM. I feel like all the normal med students who had some good points were overshadowed by irrelevant craziness and personal attacks

I don't actually know why SDN hates LECOM. I know that I didn't apply to LECOM because I was (apparently falsely) informed that there was a dress code at all times on campus.

I am honestly interested in the logic behind thinking gen surg is a primary care specialty though. Not even being sarcastic.
 
I applied but withdrew. I only sent a secondary for Erie though. Girls can get away with looking nice and still being comfortable (no ties). I don't like not being able to eat when I want. I get a little psychoglycemic when I don't eat enough. I primarily withdrew because of clinical sites and the ability to stay in the same place for four years is important to me. That and I wanted to stay in a city. If the amount of debt you have is important to a person..I can see why LECOM would be attractive.

Edit: I had to fix all of the horrible typos.



Written from my iPhone
 
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as an OMS1 who CHOSE lecom Erie and is in the lecture based pathway. I love my school. does it have its negatives? sure, every school does. but I really love it here and would choose this school again.

Things that are absolutely blown out of proportion by pre meds on this site.

dress code - if you have a problem putting a shirt and tie on everyday, dont go in to medicine.

attendance policy - when you start clinicals or residency if you plan on taking advantage of a no attendance policy, dont go into medicine cause there isnt one.

no food or drink in the building - so what, who cares go into the cafeteria and grab a drink or hit up your locker for the drink you brought in, take it to the cafeteria and have a drink.

these are ALL things that i had to experience in the real world ( i worked in a hospital for a while)

do the rules that lecom puts into place benefit them? sure but do they benefit you also? absolutely.

heres things that are NOT taken into account when people think of lecom.

awsome teachers. although im in anatomy and havent had that many subjects i can honestly say every professor i have had here is straight up awsome. and i can see why we have such an awsome anatomy department.

oh yeah, and the cheap tuition.

and after bieng in med school for 10 weeks, although i have done good in my classes so far if I knew two years from now that i "passed" the boards i would be so friggin happy. you pre meds have absolutely no idea. bieng in med school is awsome, and im actually having a great time and meeting lifelong friends but your going to be encountering an education unlike anything you have ever imagined before lol. pretty soon you wont even think about what your wearing, you wont have time. you wont even realize that your thirsty, the only thing youll be thinking about or even capable of remembering other than anatomy is what page you left off of in greys anatomy. im telling you. you wont have time to realize what your wearing/ eating.


oh and BTW I know of 2 people in my class that got into NSU but choose lecom for their tuition. think of it this way. they will be debt free in half the time.
 
I applied but withdrew. I only sent a secondary for Erie though. Girls can get away with looking nice and still being comfortable (no ties). I dot like not being able to eat when I want though. I get a little psycoglycemic when I don't. I primarily withdrew because clinic sites and the ability to stay out for four years is important to me. That and I wanted to stay in a city. If the about of debt you accrue is important to a person..I can see why LECOM would be attractive.

:D I like this word. Keeping it!
 
Holy typos in my last post. I'm adding "sent from iPhone" to my signature.
 
The entire dress code issue which you guys are making is really a non-issue. Once you start dressing up everyday Mon-Fri - it would feel weird for the first two weeks but after that you would not even notice it.
 
The entire dress code issue which you guys are making is really a non-issue. Once you start dressing up everyday Mon-Fri - it would feel weird for the first two weeks but after that you would not even notice it.

Perhaps, but someone like me, who drinks three energy drinks a day and needs caffeine during a class, it makes it really hard to learn in the classrooms and study if I cannot feel comfortable. I am one of those special needs kids who needs all of the environmental factors to be perfect in order for me to be successful and unfortunately I cannot do that if I cannot have my simple vices. Great school but even they state that it's just not for everyone.
 
1. If you want to wear scrubs and a stethoscope to class everyday, don't apply to LECOM.

2. If you're in your preclinical years and you wear scrubs to class (outside of anatomy), you're a tool.

Scrubs are comfortable and all, but give me a break...
 
1. If you want to wear scrubs and a stethoscope to class everyday, don't apply to LECOM.

2. If you're in your preclinical years and you wear scrubs to class (outside of anatomy), you're a tool.

Scrubs are comfortable and all, but give me a break...

Some schools have a dress code of scrubs.
 
1. If you want to wear scrubs and a stethoscope to class everyday, don't apply to LECOM.

2. If you're in your preclinical years and you wear scrubs to class (outside of anatomy), you're a tool.

Scrubs are comfortable and all, but give me a break...


I hate wearing scrubs outside the hospital.
 
I hate wearing any uniform outside of work but if you tell me to wear scrubs to class I'm not going to complain.

I'd rather go business casual to class than scrubs. I can tell you right now that if I'm at Nova next year you will see me in a shirt/tie 9 times out of 10. Unless we don't need the tie.
 
I'd rather go business casual to class than scrubs. I can tell you right now that if I'm at Nova next year you will see me in a shirt/tie 9 times out of 10. Unless we don't need the tie.


Hah! Sounds like a bet.
 
I don't like not being able to eat when I want. I get a little psychoglycemic when I don't eat enough.

Bwahahahaha! This is so funny! I've never heard the term before, but it describes me perfectly. I CAN'T study without some food or snack, and I know I won't get much studying done at home, much as I love my family. I also prefer to not work out my own rotations and would like to live in one area as much as possible.
On the other hand, I thought LECOM was a very good school. I had been led to believe they were pretty much a diploma mill, but I did not get that feeling at all in my Erie interview.
It's been said many times before, you should choose a school based on your own personal preferences. ALL of them will make you into a doctor, and ALL of them depend on YOU to do it, it's ultimately not the school that will decide if you pass or fail. Granted, each school can provide certain advantages or benefits, but what one person sees as a benefit may not matter to another. That's why I will NEVER bash someone for choosing a specific school. I'm just super happy they got in somewhere!
:D
 
I hate wearing any uniform outside of work but if you tell me to wear scrubs to class I'm not going to complain.

This. And scrubs are super comfortable so what's not to like?

However, I totally agree that if you're wearing them around the community or at a school without a scrubs option then you are indeed a tool. I feel lame even wearing them at Starbucks during my work breaks.
 
This. And scrubs are super comfortable so what's not to like?

However, I totally agree that if you're wearing them around the community or at a school without a scrubs option then you are indeed a tool. I feel lame even wearing them at Starbucks during my work breaks.

You'll get over it quickly. I went to lunch today in my scrubs... no biggie. If I go anywhere else after school then I usually take the scrubs top off and just wear whatever t-shirt I am wearing underneath. Especially if it's a Thursday and I just had anatomy lab a couple hours prior. Problem solved! :cool:
 
No they aren't.

They certainly are. I work in medical billing, and these are billed within the codes of primary care medical treatment/therapy.

I don't understand the confusion with this, it's pretty black and white these days.
 
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