Will failing ONE class during med school destroy your residency app??

[UAAWolf]

My school requires you pass a final exam (70%+) or you fail the class. Ex...you can enter biochem with 100% avg, get 69% on the final and fail.

Say you fail ONE class during med school, but have an otherwise stellar app with 250-260+ Step 1. Will you still be screwed for things like Anes, Rads, Ortho, etc??

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[Aphtalyfe]

My school requires you pass a final exam (70%+) or you fail the class. Ex...you can enter biochem with 100% avg, get 69% on the final and fail.

Say you fail ONE class during med school, but have an otherwise stellar app with 250-260+ Step 1. Will you still be screwed for things like Anes, Rads, Ortho, etc??

I would guess that no one who got a 250+ on step 1 failed a class during med school.

 

[Maybeknot]

http://http://www.nrmp.org/data/programresultsbyspecialty.pdf

Draw your own inferences or conclusions...

 

[Superfrost]

sure it'll hurt it, but it won't sink it, you may not get quite the caliber of place you otherwise might have

 

[phospho]

http://http://www.nrmp.org/data/programresultsbyspecialty.pdf

Draw your own inferences or conclusions...

what does "gaps in medical education" mean?

are they talking about people who had to repeat a year or something?

also, why do PD's think of gaps so differently from one specialty to another? for example, in FM, it's 74% while the very competitive specialties like ortho, PRS, and radonc have it in the 50's.

 

[njbmd]

My school requires you pass a final exam (70%+) or you fail the class. Ex...you can enter biochem with 100% avg, get 69% on the final and fail.

Say you fail ONE class during med school, but have an otherwise stellar app with 250-260+ Step 1. Will you still be screwed for things like Anes, Rads, Ortho, etc??

Depends on the program but the ROAD specialties are pretty competitive. That failure is going to be costly even if you remediated but a strong third year and strong board scores will help. You might have an uphill battle but the chances of you "busting a huge score on Step I " are not good even if you memorized every letter and period of First Aid. Step I does not make up for failures on the transcript.

My advice, don't fail your Biochemistry final.

 

[penguin24]

My school requires you pass a final exam (70%+) or you fail the class. Ex...you can enter biochem with 100% avg, get 69% on the final and fail.

Say you fail ONE class during med school, but have an otherwise stellar app with 250-260+ Step 1. Will you still be screwed for things like Anes, Rads, Ortho, etc??

Do you know somebody that scored >260 Step 1 and failed a course? Wow!

 

[Ableton]

My school requires you pass a final exam (70%+) or you fail the class. Ex...you can enter biochem with 100% avg, get 69% on the final and fail.

Say you fail ONE class during med school, but have an otherwise stellar app with 250-260+ Step 1. Will you still be screwed for things like Anes, Rads, Ortho, etc??

Please stop corrupting the SDN allopathic boards with threads debating these pointless hypothetical situations. This sort of drivel belongs in the pre-medical section.

If in one year's time, after actually starting medical school, you find yourself in such a predicament, then come back and ask your unelaborated question. Mmkay, pumpkin?

 

[phospho]

Please stop corrupting the SDN allopathic boards with threads debating these pointless hypothetical situations. This sort of drivel belongs in the pre-medical section.

If in one year's time, after actually starting medical school, you find yourself in such a predicament, then come back and ask your unelaborated question. Mmkay, pumpkin?

 

[Food]

Fascinating. Approximately what % of med school graduates in the U.S. have failed a course during med school?

 

[ClockworkDoc]

Fascinating. Approximately what % of med school graduates in the U.S. have failed a course during med school?

At my school:
Failed a class and had to retake the final exam: ~8%
Failed a class and had to retake the year: ~1-2%

 

[MossPoh]

I would guess that no one who got a 250+ on step 1 failed a class during med school.

I know someone...It was a 3 week "course" and a loved one died right before the exam that decided whether you passed it. I know another that was doing horrible, got sick, waited out till next year and then got near 250 (wasn't +). First year courses though.

 

[Raryn]

what does "gaps in medical education" mean?

are they talking about people who had to repeat a year or something?

also, why do PD's think of gaps so differently from one specialty to another? for example, in FM, it's 74% while the very competitive specialties like ortho, PRS, and radonc have it in the 50's.

Gap in medical education is something like an unexplained leave of absence. Basically, if you take an extra year to complete medical school and it isn't to get a second degree (MPH, MBA, whatever) or a formal research program somewhere (NIH, etc), then most residency programs consider that as looking pretty bad.

Why? Because then they can call into question your commitment to medical education or something.

 

[njbmd]

Gap in medical education is something like an unexplained leave of absence. Basically, if you take an extra year to complete medical school and it isn't to get a second degree (MPH, MBA, whatever) or a formal research program somewhere (NIH, etc), then most residency programs consider that as looking pretty bad.

Why? Because then they can call into question your commitment to medical education or something.

Gaps in medical education would include things like being asked to sit out a year due to academic problems(being dismissed and then readmitted); taking a year to travel or (study for boards). In the United States, you have six years to complete four years of medical school unless you are in combined programs like MD-Ph.D, MD-MPH/MBA or MD-JD. Taking a LOA that is not to obtain a degree is not generally advised. (Medical LOAs are generally not as problematic as long as you come back and perform well after you have gotten your medical conditions under control). Medical LOAs while necessary are not ideal and more than one year away (even for medical reasons) can become a negative for some specialties.

Most of the combined degree programs will have you complete the graduate degree portion of your combined degree between second and third year. Taking a year off after third year or fourth year for that matter is problematic too even with a degree. It's better to do your other degree between second and third year (or wait until after residency). It isn't a matter of questioning your commitment to medicine but what you can lose with long gaps in your medical education.

 

[b33sharp]

what about a female student taking a leave of absence between 2nd and 3rd year to start a family? would that be seen as a negative by residency programs?

 

[RxnMan]

...Taking a year off after third year or fourth year for that matter is problematic too even with a degree...

Not necessarily. As I have stated before, the research year out programs don't grant degrees, yet they manage to do very well in the Match year after year. My program in particular requires applicants to complete at least MS3 before arriving at the NIH, and alumni have had no trouble matching to competitive specialties at prestigious institutions.

 

[rkaz]

If someone is having academic difficulties, would it be better to take a LOA and then join back again after some time off... or would be better to decelerate (by spreading out the first 2 years of basic sciences into 3 years)? In both cases these would result in a 5 year program. I'm just curious which would be looked upon more favorably by residencies and be less of a red flag... assuming the person does well afterwards in courses.

 

[Mr hawkings]

If someone is having academic difficulties, would it be better to take a LOA and then join back again after some time off... or would be better to decelerate (by spreading out the first 2 years of basic sciences into 3 years)? In both cases these would result in a 5 year program. I'm just curious which would be looked upon more favorably by residencies and be less of a red flag... assuming the person does well afterwards in courses.

The dean at your school most likely has dealt with examples of both and could tell you how residency apps went for each case. I would start there.
Both senarios are so similar that i think it would probably change on a case by case basis depending on what happened after the academic issues had been resolved.

 

[familyaerospace]

Fascinating. Approximately what % of med school graduates in the U.S. have failed a course during med school?

Calling @Goro

 

[Goro]

At my school, we don't have "lethal" final exams, but I'd say that ~5% [max] fail in the first semester, and of those 5%, at most half of them have to repeat the year, withdraw, or get dismissed.

Once our students get past the first semester, course failures are rare, like maybe 1-2 people. For these, they are other struggling students, or people that get hit by some negative life event.

I'd like to point out that one of our all time worst students, who had to repeat the first year and did multiple remediations the next time around, is now an anaesthesiologist. He's probably killing patients somewhere in WA state.

At my school:
Failed a class and had to retake the final exam: ~8%
Failed a class and had to retake the year: ~1-2%

 

[notbobtrustme]

Do you know somebody that scored >260 Step 1 and failed a course? Wow!

I almost failed a class in M1 and got the highest step 1 score in my class.

 

[JustPlainBill]

My school requires you pass a final exam (70%+) or you fail the class. Ex...you can enter biochem with 100% avg, get 69% on the final and fail.

Say you fail ONE class during med school, but have an otherwise stellar app with 250-260+ Step 1. Will you still be screwed for things like Anes, Rads, Ortho, etc??

ONE class? Lightweight--- grow a backbone -- try failing an entire year and then you can start being concerned -- quit being neurotic -- and for the love of St. Barnabas, this is not the kind of question that random people in your same situation can answer (i.e. SDNers) -- this is close to being in 7th grade at your first middle school dance and asking your dipstick buddies,"Do you think she likes me?" --

If you score a 250-260 on step one, most likely, unless you're a neurotic twit, you won't have any problem getting into a decent residency -- what'll keep you out more are any personality quirks ---

settle down, buddy -- the phrase "Gerbil on Benzedrine" started popping into my head as I read your thread --- seriously, relax.....

 

[buffpenguin]

I am a current MS4 applying for Emergency medicine, Got a Step 1 of 240, my first rotation after was IM and my newly married wife (we got married 1 week after step and 1 week before IM) got sick spent 3-4 weeks with her in the hospital. Ended up failing IM by 1 question 65% on NBME, rest of the year i just passed my clinical clerkships because of a screwed up evaluation system at my school. Taking step 2 on Sept 30 hoping to go i pull a 245+ to redeem myself now.

So there's a real scenario for you,
I'm scared and my school is basically saying pick a secondary specialty
Its a terrible time.

Any advice?

 

[DeucesHigh3]

I am a current MS4 applying for Emergency medicine, Got a Step 1 of 240, my first rotation after was IM and my newly married wife (we got married 1 week after step and 1 week before IM) got sick spent 3-4 weeks with her in the hospital. Ended up failing IM by 1 question 65% on NBME, rest of the year i just passed my clinical clerkships because of a screwed up evaluation system at my school. Taking step 2 on Sept 30 hoping to go i pull a 245+ to redeem myself now.

So there's a real scenario for you,
I'm scared and my school is basically saying pick a secondary specialty
Its a terrible time.

Any advice?

Might want to make a new post, either here or in the EM forum, rather than a 5+ year necrobump. Sorry to hear about your year though...