Will hand skills deteriorate in service?

[BasicG]

I have been informed from navy dentists that patient load is roughly 1 patient per hour. In addition to that, I was told general dentists are stuck doing bread and butter dentistry unless an AEGD is done, in which case you may have more options.

I can't shake this feeling that after attending a school like Creighton or MWU-AZ, I would be doing less dentistry in service than in school. Can any service members chime in? Should I be concerned about this or am I just overthinking things

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[vellnueve]

no

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

If by “hand skills” you mean “clinical skills,” then yes there’s a very strong likelihood you’ll deteriorate as a dentist. However, a lot will depend on where you end up stationed. For the past 2.5 years I’ve been stuck doing pretty much nothing aside from exams and fillings. I’ve literally had weeks straight of nothing but exams. Those that did a GPR/AEGD before arriving at this dump are stuck doing the exact same thing. (Not all places are this toxic. My credentialing tour was awesome! If the sum total of my Naval experience was the same, I’d have strongly considered a career in the military.) I felt more confident as a general dentist straight out of school. I think this is why many of my friends have ended up specializing when they got out because they just weren’t ready for private practice. But, it’s hard to argue against the HPSP from a financial standpoint. And if you do specialize after your obligation is fulfilled, which is exactly what I’d recommend, you’ll have the GI Bill to help fund your residency.

Big Hoss

 

[Lil Norkii the Supreme]

I absolutely agree with Big Hoss
Not only your skills will fall behind your peers but also there is a high likelihood you will be stuck in a clinic with incompetent people who have the rank and power to boss your around and treat you like a ds2(read: dog poop) constantly.
From financial stand point just go to a state school and get in-state tuition.
If you want to specialize than HPSP makes little more sense since you will get your GI bill(covers tuition and rent) and I have yet to see any of my colleagues not get into a civilian residency coming out of military

signed XO of cobra command Lil Norkii the supreme

 

[BasicG]

If by “hand skills” you mean “clinical skills,” then yes there’s a very strong likelihood you’ll deteriorate as a dentist. However, a lot will depend on where you end up stationed. For the past 2.5 years I’ve been stuck doing pretty much nothing aside from exams and fillings. I’ve literally had weeks straight of nothing but exams. Those that did a GPR/AEGD before arriving at this dump are stuck doing the exact same thing. (Not all places are this toxic. My credentialing tour was awesome! If the sum total of my Naval experience was the same, I’d have strongly considered a career in the military.) I felt more confident as a general dentist straight out of school. I think this is why many of my friends have ended up specializing when they got out because they just weren’t ready for private practice. But, it’s hard to argue against the HPSP from a financial standpoint. And if you do specialize after your obligation is fulfilled, which is exactly what I’d recommend, you’ll have the GI Bill to help fund your residency.

Big Hoss

I absolutely agree with Big Hoss
Not only your skills will fall behind your peers but also there is a high likelihood you will be stuck in a clinic with incompetent people who have the rank and power to boss your around and treat you like a ds2(read: dog poop) constantly.
From financial stand point just go to a state school and get in-state tuition.
If you want to specialize than HPSP makes little more sense since you will get your GI bill(covers tuition and rent) and I have yet to see any of my colleagues not get into a civilian residency coming out of military

signed XO of cobra command Lil Norkii the supreme

Thanks for the transparency guys! I guess it comes down to whether or not you want to specialize and how much debt you're looking at.

 

[Lil Norkii the Supreme]

Thanks for the transparency guys! I guess it comes down to whether or not you want to specialize and how much debt you're looking at.

There is also job security with military
you can spend 1.5 hours doing single shade composite restoration for single anterior enamel chip and no one will say anything.(based on true story)
Or you can just say I don't agree with the dx and change the treatment plan to "watch" and have a break for at least an hour in your office twiddling your thumb but always accuse others of gun-decking when they change tx plan.(based on true story)
You will meet some of the slowest laziest dentists in the military that barely have the skills to compete against expanded function assistants (again, based on true story)
Albeit it's a small percentage it's enough to really make your life miserable because somehow it's the hard working high producing LTs that get scolded all the time for problems caused by the lazy "bigdeals"

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Thanks for the transparency guys!

Big Hoss

 

[LFA20]

It’s possible

 

[customx]

You could always moonlight to keep up your hand skills (with permission of course)

 

[vellnueve]

Your experiences differ from mine. I was doing multiple chair dentistry when facilities allowed and seeing more than enough patients. My hand skills were light years ahead of when I first started out by the time I finished as a GP. The only time it slowed down was when I took over the department and had to spend more time doing admin.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Your experiences differ from mine. I was doing multiple chair dentistry when facilities allowed and seeing more than enough patients. My hand skills were light years ahead of when I first started out by the time I finished as a GP. The only time it slowed down was when I took over the department and had to spend more time doing admin.

Which is exactly why, due to recent events at work, I’ve reached maximum disillusionment with the Navy. I still recommend the HPSP, but to GTFO ASAP.

Big Hoss

 

[alldemteeth]

Your experiences differ from mine. I was doing multiple chair dentistry when facilities allowed and seeing more than enough patients. My hand skills were light years ahead of when I first started out by the time I finished as a GP.

My experience is similar to above. Just like the civilian world, not all jobs are created equal.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Just like the civilian world, not all jobs are created equal.

One’s fate is determined by the detailer. Good luck, shipmates!

Big Hoss

 

[PotatoCat]

I am just going to keep it real. Your hand skills will most likely deteriorate as a general dentist. I echo everything that has been mentioned in this thread. I did a GPR in the Navy and I am now at a clinic with other people who were previously doing a credentialing tour. I am stuck doing the exact same thing they are doing, primarily exams and fillings.

The military is a good gig if you're an unmotivated/slow clinician that is just looking to make a decent living. It's not a bad option if you plan to specialize, but if you plan on doing general dentistry then it's probably in your best interest to do your time then leave...unless you're OK with your mind and hand skills slowly rotting away as you make rank. Of course some people in the Navy and/or other branches have completely different experiences...but the general consensus from my colleagues who are also in the military is to do the time and then get out and continue your professional growth in dentistry.

Do not, I repeat, do not get into military dentistry solely for loan repayment purposes or you will be miserable. You must have some desire and willingness to be an OFFICER FIRST, because that is what you are to them ultimately...an officer that just so happens to be able to fix teeth. I thought about making a career but have quickly realized I just don't think I can tolerate all the shenanigans for 20 plus years. You can message me privately if you have any other questions. Hoorah.

-Potato Cat

 

[ysrebob]

Former USAF HPSP here, now civilian in private practice. My experience was a little more moderate / less frustrating than what some have posted above. It was not all roses by any means: did have some commanders I hated and did get forced through a looooot of BS, could not wait to separate from active duty etc, but managed to learn some dentistry along the way.

With any luck you will be able to grow your skills in some respects during your HPSP payback, although you will not have the pressure or in some cases the opportunity to grow as fast as you would in private practice. You will get more confident with prepping. You'll get good at figuring out dx for emergencies/toothaches/TMJ pain quickly. If you do an AEGD, you will be a HUGE leg up on new grads who didn't in every respect. The challenge will be to not let those new skills atrophy during your payback. Just because you are given an hour to do one filling doesn't mean you have to take all 60min, or can't find additional tx to do.

Financially, you will unequivocally be way ahead of your peers who didn't do HPSP. I was unhappy on active duty but have never regretted doing the HPSP - not then and certainly not now. One of the best professional decisions I've ever made.

 

[ysrebob]

PS Just want add it's not all roses out in civilian practice either. "Chief complaint" for many on active duty is poor management.

My chief complaint now, three years out of the military and a couple years into a startup office, is being WORN THE F--- OUT on a frequent basis. 3x the income, 12x the stress. My USAF self would have had an aneurism trying to keep up with my current clinical schedule, let alone juggling the business side. Key employee out sick? Better think of a plan, just happened in my office today in fact. Two employees having some kind of personal feud? Time to jump in and force a ceasefire before it brings down the whole place. Quarterly employment taxes went in late? Ooops, that's going to cost you. Suction went down? Better figure that one out fast! Etc etc etc.

I do think most dentists are better off leaving the military immediately after HPSP payback and getting into private practice as an owner, but the grass isn't necessarily greener. It's still going to be work. And hand skills are probably going to be the least of your worries. If you have the great luxury of hitting the ground in private practice with zero student loans (thank you Uncle Sam), that debt is another big thing to NOT worry about.

 

[knewstance]

I think this is why many of my friends have ended up specializing when they got out because they just weren’t ready for private practice.

Is there a common theme in the specialty that most choose after HPSP service or is it just based on personal interest?

 

[alldemteeth]

Is there a common theme in the specialty that most choose after HPSP service or is it just based on personal interest?

Endo.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Is there a common theme in the specialty that most choose after HPSP service or is it just based on personal interest?

Endo definitely leads the pack. A few of my close friends have gone into endo and several others are planning to do so. From what I’ve heard from them, programs seem to really like military applicants. I’m personally gunning for peds right now. If any peds program directors are reading this and want to offer me a pre-Match spot, just shoot me a PM. Thanks.

Big Hoss

 

[AppalachianDentalBoy]

Any more USAF care to chime in? Or do y'all think all branches will have the same problems.

 

[Blueshirts]

I am just going to keep it real. Your hand skills will most likely deteriorate as a general dentist. I echo everything that has been mentioned in this thread. I did a GPR in the Navy and I am now at a clinic with other people who were previously doing a credentialing tour. I am stuck doing the exact same thing they are doing, primarily exams and fillings.

The military is a good gig if you're an unmotivated/slow clinician that is just looking to make a decent living. It's not a bad option if you plan to specialize, but if you plan on doing general dentistry then it's probably in your best interest to do your time then leave...unless you're OK with your mind and hand skills slowly rotting away as you make rank. Of course some people in the Navy and/or other branches have completely different experiences...but the general consensus from my colleagues who are also in the military is to do the time and then get out and continue your professional growth in dentistry.

Do not, I repeat, do not get into military dentistry solely for loan repayment purposes or you will be miserable. You must have some desire and willingness to be an OFFICER FIRST, because that is what you are to them ultimately...an officer that just so happens to be able to fix teeth. I thought about making a career but have quickly realized I just don't think I can tolerate all the shenanigans for 20 plus years. You can message me privately if you have any other questions. Hoorah.

-Potato Cat

I would like to ask you a few questions about your experiences, but your profile is set to private. Could you initiate a private message? Thanks Potato Cat

 

[ysrebob]

@AppalachianDentalBoy - USAF can practice full-scope dentistry IF ON THE RIGHT BASE. The USAF AEGD-1 year is truly world-class education no matter where you go for it (luckily, as it's now mandatory) -- very strong hands-on training on absolutely everything in dentistry except complete dentures, full mouth rehab, and arguably implants. Once out of AEGD, I had friends on other Air Force bases who were doing lots of molar endo, lots of cerec, the odd perio surgery etc. You can do plenty of impacted 3rds/IV sedation cases on almost any base if comfortable (tho an AEGD year gives just barely enough training for this). The facilities are good to excellent wherever you go. You will be working out of one room and thus won't get any practice at multitasking, an important skill in private practice, but you can learn that later.

What matters in the AF is whether there are enough dentists on your base to keep the base population's dental readiness rate high; if yes your commander will let you do all kinds of specialty dentistry... life is good. If the clinic is undermanned (as does happen) and readiness rate falls, it's exams + amalgam or off-base referral, and your skills will be badly underused.... this was my situation. As with any governmental job the paperwork and red tape is cumbersome and there is lots of non-dental officership stuff which may strike you as a colossal waste of your time.

 

[yappy]

No matter what happens you will have better skills than when you were a senior dental student. IMO, If all you learned while in the military was how to do operative dentistry really well you will still be okay. You can still have a successful career after the military with a broader scope if you desire it.