Work Hard, Work Hard, No interest in playing.

Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine
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Yup, I once asked an orthopod in clinic if he recommended squats post-ACL recon.

He said he loved it if his patients would do them, because of the load isn't as bad as other exercises (specifically seated leg extension and flexion).
 
maxxor said:
Yup, I once asked an orthopod in clinic if he recommended squats post-ACL recon.

He said he loved it if his patients would do them, because of the load isn't as bad as other exercises (specifically seated leg extension and flexion).
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Yes and leg press(which I'm assuming you're referring to) can also wreak havoc on the lower back of people that don't have strong lower backs. A lot of higher level lifters get away with it because they have the musculature to make it work, but I still won't ever leg press.
 
Kangal said:
I am finding a lack of similarity with a lot of my medical student peers. I have one MD/PhD buddy who is like me, and I'm sure there are a couple of kids in my class like me (haven't talked intimately with everyone). Everyone seems to want the white picket fence, watch their son's soccer game, BBQ on Saturday kind of life. Am I odd for not caring about this? Don't get me wrong, I want a wife, kids, maybe a decent house with a yard...but does the want for this come close to my want to be an academic surgeon -- absolutely not. If I want to do any basic science research worth a damn, and have peak surgical skills, you bet your ass I'll be working 80+ hours a week. Am I naive enough to say my emotional standpoint on the topic won't change throughout the next few years, particularly once I have kids? No. But goals are goals and I am setting up my career based on what I feel now. I am mentored by a neurosurgeon-scientist who regularly pushes 100 hours a weeks. He's a beast, walks tall, and is high on life. Not the happiest- go lucky type of guy, but his ego fuels his beast work. Married too, has kids, doesn't talk about them much. But he likes it. For me, I can't imagine even enjoying free time if I had it every single weekend. I'm not trolling, this is me. I know others just like me. I am uptight, study a ton, enjoy being busy, if I'm not stressed about work I feel guilty because I'm wasting time doing things that aren't benefitting anyone but myself. People tell me to calm down, and I don't see why. I guess my reason for this post is to pose a question. I'm not looking for someone to tell me why my mentality is bad, I am just curious how others rationalize the particular work/play ratio they've established as "acceptable" in their practice. I know how mine will be, I know why I want the balance that I want - 96 work/4 play. So enlighten me on what your balance of work/play is, and why you don't bug out by not doing more, or even, why do you work so much and not play at all (maybe your justification is different than mine)?
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Have you ever worked 80 hours a week for any extended period of time? It's not fun and you might change your mind.
 
PL198 said:
Yes and leg press(which I'm assuming you're referring to) can also wreak havoc on the lower back of people that don't have strong lower backs. A lot of higher level lifters get away with it because they have the musculature to make it work, but I still won't ever leg press.
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I wasn't even referring specifically to leg press, but to these abominations:

Inflight-CTMSEC-SeatedLegExt.Curl_inUse.jpg


Particularly the seated leg flex. That's the worst post ACL.
 
PL198 said:
More and more of the load gets shifted to the hips as one squats deeper.(until a certain point, which is extremely deep and something 99.9999% of people will never even come close to).
http://www.biomechfit.com/2012/02/09/3-squatting-myths-that-refuse-to-die

Obviously not a scientific article, but the sources are.
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This "research" paper just lost all credibility, if we're going to be scientific about this stuff...

The PCL exerts the primary restraint against
these forces. In a study by Li et al. (36), PCL torque rose
significantly with every flexion angle beyond 30!to a peak of
73.2 N at 90!. The PCL forces then decreased significantly
from 90! to 120!, leveling off thereafter.
VOLUME 24 | NUMBER 12 | DECEMBER 2010 | 3499
Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research the TM
| www.nsca-jscr.org
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😵 wut

Bros need to learn their units, Force is not torque.
 
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Myth #1: Squatting below parallel is bad for your knees

Yet another study showed that forces on the ACL are reduced as the knee is flexed beyond 60 degrees, and forces on the PCL are reduced as the knee flexes past 120 degrees.
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What the study says is this

Peak ACL forces generally occur between 15 and 30 of flexion, decreasing significantly at 60! and leveling off thereafter throughout the range of motion of the joint
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Great, so what? Does this matter to anyone? Everyone who is squatting and is even having this debate is already squatting past 30 degrees, this is a non issue and doesn't help the bloggers mythbusting.


PCL torque rose significantly with every flexion angle beyond 30 degrees to a peak of 73.2 N at 90. The PCL forces then decreased significantly from 90 to 120, leveling off thereafter. This is consistent with other research showing the PCL forces are greatest at 90 degrees of flexion and least near full extension (37). Escamilla (17)
reported that peak PCL forces are 30–40% percent greater during the ascent of a squat as compared to the descent.
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This also says nothing to help the mythbusting, because you have to go through 90 to get to 120+, your ascent from 120+ will be no different from your ascent at 90, you'll still be going through the highest force angle either way. It's not as if going past 90 benefits you, as he's implying.

And best of all, it doesn't even matter either way:
"It is unlikely, however, that squatting loads used by the vast majority of the population would be great enough to cause injury to a healthy PCL. "

But most tellingly, he conveniently left this out of his blog, from the same study:
Because compressive forces peak at high degrees of knee flexion (13), the greatest risk of injury during deep squatting would appear to be to be to the menisci and articular cartilage, which are placed under increased stress at high flexion angles (16,36). Unfortunately, currently, no guidelines exist to determine at what magnitude of force injury occurs.
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Oh BlogScience, the only thing worse than BroScience. Torque me, in Newtons.
 
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lazers said:
The number one thing for you is prestige. Once you realize being a doctor or a surgeon no longer has the prestige it did 20 years ago and that you're working yourself to death for no reason, while the financiers have all the money and the prestige being the 0.01% you'll change your mentality. You just need to experience the world, and I guarantee you, your prioritize will change.
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I've found that the people who respect doctors the most and are thankful for what they do tend to be the nicest patients and are a pleasure to talk to. I had a couple with two young boys the other day who I would have went out with for drinks if I knew them in real life
 
WhippleWhileWeWork said:
What the study says is this



Great, so what? Does this matter to anyone? Everyone who is squatting and is even having this debate is already squatting past 30 degrees, this is a non issue and doesn't help the bloggers mythbusting.





This also says nothing to help the mythbusting, because you have to go through 90 to get to 120+, your ascent from 120+ will be no different from your ascent at 90, you'll still be going through the highest force angle either way. And best of all, it doesn't even matter:
"It is unlikely, however, that squatting loads used by the vast majority of the population would be great enough to cause injury to a healthy PCL. "

He conveniently left this out of his blog, from the same article:


Oh BlogScience, the only thing worse than BroScience. Torque me, in Newtons.
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Welcome, my friend, to the horse chit universe that is strength and conditioning literature. Nothing rustles my jimmies more than the hordes of mis-information and pseudoscience that permeates the fitness community, because the ivory tower has deemed this subject not worthy of rigorous investigation.

That said, a lot of "bro-science" likely has some merit to it. In some ways, its similar to what medicine was like before the huge EBM push. Strong anecdote begets strong dogma, but not all of it is useless. Just gotta be vigilant and try to spot the BS as best you can.

A lot of powerlifting advice is bro-science, but who else do we have to look to for advice? A lot of these guys are pushing their soft tissues and joints to the absolute limit, yet they remain relatively healthy given the abuse they take on. They're doing something right. Tho I'm still skeptical about super heavy squatting (>400 lbs) and it's effects on the lumbar spine --- perfect example is brandon campbell from YT who has lumbar spondylosis and he's only in his mid 30's. That said, his form was evidently total chit when he started out, and his back has improved substantially since he's become a form nazi, video taping each of his workouts to correct his form.

Maybe I'd be the only poster, but I'd love to see a fitness sub forum on SDN. There are few places on the web with this many people who can critically analyze the literature and have a deep understanding of human physiology, so I think it'd make for some pretty interesting content.
 
KinasePro said:
Maybe I'd be the only poster, but I'd love to see a fitness sub forum on SDN. There are few places on the web with this many people who can critically analyze the literature and have a deep understanding of human physiology, so I think it'd make for some pretty interesting content.
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Get on that! Would love to read.
 
Let's do some math:

100 hours/week = ~14 hours/day = 6am-8pm everyday of the week

Add in travel time which makes it 5:30am-8:30pm.

Say you want 6 hours of sleep so you go to bed at 11:30pm. That gives you three hours every night to shower, do stuff around the house, and hang with your family.

So sure, you can work 100 hours a week and "have a family". You kids and wife probably won't think of you as being a part of that family, however.

If that is what you want to do that is awesome! I wish I was as interested in research and that hard working. Just don't think your going to be an awesome husband, parent, surgeon, scientist, etc. all at the same time.

Good luck with everything - I hope you reach your goals!
 
Kangal said:
I have to complete my Ph.D. in 3-4 years...Do you think that is possible without working 80 hour weeks? Maybe on some projects, but most definitely not mine. 80 hour weeks still gives you plenty of time for sleep. I still even fit in a 30 minute episode of its always sunny before I go to bed most nights. It's passed 80 when things get crazy.
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working on your PhD is nothing to sneeze at but doing that for 80 hours a weeks is not even close to the same as being a doctor....let alone a neurosurgeon....for 80 hours a week
 
WhippleWhileWeWork said:
What the study says is this



Great, so what? Does this matter to anyone? Everyone who is squatting and is even having this debate is already squatting past 30 degrees, this is a non issue and doesn't help the bloggers mythbusting.





This also says nothing to help the mythbusting, because you have to go through 90 to get to 120+, your ascent from 120+ will be no different from your ascent at 90, you'll still be going through the highest force angle either way. It's not as if going past 90 benefits you, as he's implying.

And best of all, it doesn't even matter either way:
"It is unlikely, however, that squatting loads used by the vast majority of the population would be great enough to cause injury to a healthy PCL. "

But most tellingly, he conveniently left this out of his blog, from the same study:


Oh BlogScience, the only thing worse than BroScience. Torque me, in Newtons.
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No, the impulse when you change directions is divided up between your skeletal system, depending on your positioning. They got the units wrong, big deal. If you can't acecdotally see that you load your hips more as you squat deeper, then idk what to tell you. As you squat deeper and deeper, your trunk is forced to flex to some degree and thus load is distributed to your hips. If I do a 1/4 squat, I can have an almost completely vertical trunk and thus all the impulse is distributed to my knees. I understand what you're saying about how if you go through a position, you'd think your body undergoes the same amount of loading, but that's not true in practicality. Since the weight is already moving at a given point of depth compared to a shallower squat that stops at the same point, you have momentum that helps ease the "hit." Squatting deep, you utilize more of your musculature to help you move the weight. This results in a more stable and more structurally efficient movement. If I 1/2 or 1/4 squat, it's all quads and almost 100 percent of the force goes through my knee.


Honestly most people at gyms don't squat much more than 30 degrees..
 
PL198 said:
No, the impulse when you change directions is divided up between your skeletal system, depending on your positioning.
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What?

PL198 said:
They got the units wrong, big deal.
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Pretty huge deal for a scientific journal entry that's attempting to make claims using Physics/Mechanics. This would be like mixing up a virus with a bacteria in NEJM.(bad analogy? I've got none better)

PL198 said:
If you can't acecdotally see that you load your hips more as you squat deeper, then idk what to tell you.
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You made the claim, I asked for evidence, I searched your sources, couldn't find it, and now you want me to...feel it? I'm not interested in your or my anecdotes, that's how we chase our tails.


PL198 said:
I understand what you're saying about how if you go through a position, you'd think your body undergoes the same amount of loading, but that's not true in practicality. Since the weight is already moving at a given point of depth compared to a shallower squat that stops at the same point, you have momentum that helps ease the "hit." Squatting deep, you utilize more of your musculature to help you move the weight. This results in a more stable and more structurally efficient movement. If I 1/2 or 1/4 squat, it's all quads and almost 100 percent of the force goes through my knee.
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I don't really know what you're saying, but ok.


PL198 said:
Honestly most people at gyms don't squat much more than 30 degrees..
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But those aren't the people that are asking if they should go below parallel either, they are not the intended audience of the blogger.
 
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What I explained is extremely clear. I'm sure you understand thigh vs hip flexors and can reason out the anatomical positions in which each are used.
 
PL198 said:
More and more of the load gets shifted to the hips as one squats deeper.(until a certain point, which is extremely deep and something 99.9999% of people will never even come close to).
http://www.biomechfit.com/2012/02/09/3-squatting-myths-that-refuse-to-die

Obviously not a scientific article, but the sources are.
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I'm still looking but I did find this interesting abstract (can't see the full article yet)
"A search of relevant scientific publications was conducted between March 2011 and January 2013 using PubMed. Over 164 articles were included in the review. There are no realistic estimations of knee-joint forces for knee-flexion angles beyond 50° in the deep squat."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23821469

This would seem to indicate my search will be fruitless, though.
 
I don't sense your question/statement about your life is coming from a place of modesty; but rather from a place of ego. I was struck by the earlier description of your tomb stone having your research papers engraved next to it. Your accomplishments will serve better if they come from a place of service; not a place of accolades. I pose this question to you,"How would you feel if all your research and accompanying discoveries were done under a pseudonym?" Truthfully answer this to yourself; it will guide you.
I truly believe in doing what you are called to do in life, as long as you "Know who you are, Know what you are, Know how you serve". My point is, we all get "callings" in life, but you have to Know where the calling is originating. Like I tell medical students who come to me for advice "It's ok to go into medicine for money and/or prestige; but be ready to change, because life is "school" and it will teach you what you need to learn; the easy way or the hard way; decided by the origin of your choices".

I'm probably older than most on this forum. I've seen first hand these lessons being taught. 1). multiple physician suicides 2). innumerable life changing financially destructive divorces 3). suicide, addiction, and pregnancy rampant among children of physicians. I'm not saying this happens to all docs who have families, but it seems to happen to those who are eager to accomplish the most in the short amount of time life provides. "Time" is a bitch, but a damn good teacher.

If, right now, you were told that you have inoperable pancreatic cancer and you have at most 6 months to live, what would you do in the next few months?

joeBUCK MD
 
joeBUCK said:
I don't sense your question/statement about your life is coming from a place of modesty; but rather from a place of ego. I was struck by the earlier description of your tomb stone having your research papers engraved next to it. Your accomplishments will serve better if they come from a place of service; not a place of accolades. I pose this question to you,"How would you feel if all your research and accompanying discoveries were done under a pseudonym?" Truthfully answer this to yourself; it will guide you.
I truly believe in doing what you are called to do in life, as long as you "Know who you are, Know what you are, Know how you serve". My point is, we all get "callings" in life, but you have to Know where the calling is originating. Like I tell medical students who come to me for advice "It's ok to go into medicine for money and/or prestige; but be ready to change, because life is "school" and it will teach you what you need to learn; the easy way or the hard way; decided by the origin of your choices".

I'm probably older than most on this forum. I've seen first hand these lessons being taught. 1). multiple physician suicides 2). innumerable life changing financially destructive divorces 3). suicide, addiction, and pregnancy rampant among children of physicians. I'm not saying this happens to all docs who have families, but it seems to happen to those who are eager to accomplish the most in the short amount of time life provides. "Time" is a bitch, but a damn good teacher.

If, right now, you were told that you have inoperable pancreatic cancer and you have at most 6 months to live, what would you do in the next few months?

joeBUCK MD
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I completely agree with you on this Joe. The main wake-up call the OP will have is when he completes his training and is practicing, he won't be put on a pedestal by anyone, (his end-goal). This is about the same time the depression kicks in.
 
lazers said:
I completely agree with you on this Joe. The main wake-up call the OP will have is when he completes his training and is practicing, he won't be put on a pedestal by anyone, (his end-goal). This is about the same time the depression kicks in.
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joeBUCK said:
I don't sense your question/statement about your life is coming from a place of modesty; but rather from a place of ego. I was struck by the earlier description of your tomb stone having your research papers engraved next to it. Your accomplishments will serve better if they come from a place of service; not a place of accolades. I pose this question to you,"How would you feel if all your research and accompanying discoveries were done under a pseudonym?" Truthfully answer this to yourself; it will guide you.
I truly believe in doing what you are called to do in life, as long as you "Know who you are, Know what you are, Know how you serve". My point is, we all get "callings" in life, but you have to Know where the calling is originating. Like I tell medical students who come to me for advice "It's ok to go into medicine for money and/or prestige; but be ready to change, because life is "school" and it will teach you what you need to learn; the easy way or the hard way; decided by the origin of your choices".

I'm probably older than most on this forum. I've seen first hand these lessons being taught. 1). multiple physician suicides 2). innumerable life changing financially destructive divorces 3). suicide, addiction, and pregnancy rampant among children of physicians. I'm not saying this happens to all docs who have families, but it seems to happen to those who are eager to accomplish the most in the short amount of time life provides. "Time" is a bitch, but a damn good teacher.

If, right now, you were told that you have inoperable pancreatic cancer and you have at most 6 months to live, what would you do in the next few months?

joeBUCK MD
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That's what I think the OP doesn't understand. The lack of insight is galling. The "Work Hard, Work Hard, No interest in playing" -- mentality is exactly what Residency PDs want to avoid when it comes to selecting for residents for residency training and for good reason. JoeBuckMD encompassed this perfectly.
 
joeBUCK said:
I don't sense your question/statement about your life is coming from a place of modesty; but rather from a place of ego. I was struck by the earlier description of your tomb stone having your research papers engraved next to it. Your accomplishments will serve better if they come from a place of service; not a place of accolades. I pose this question to you,"How would you feel if all your research and accompanying discoveries were done under a pseudonym?" Truthfully answer this to yourself; it will guide you.
I truly believe in doing what you are called to do in life, as long as you "Know who you are, Know what you are, Know how you serve". My point is, we all get "callings" in life, but you have to Know where the calling is originating. Like I tell medical students who come to me for advice "It's ok to go into medicine for money and/or prestige; but be ready to change, because life is "school" and it will teach you what you need to learn; the easy way or the hard way; decided by the origin of your choices".

I'm probably older than most on this forum. I've seen first hand these lessons being taught. 1). multiple physician suicides 2). innumerable life changing financially destructive divorces 3). suicide, addiction, and pregnancy rampant among children of physicians. I'm not saying this happens to all docs who have families, but it seems to happen to those who are eager to accomplish the most in the short amount of time life provides. "Time" is a bitch, but a damn good teacher.

If, right now, you were told that you have inoperable pancreatic cancer and you have at most 6 months to live, what would you do in the next few months?

joeBUCK MD
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What a great post. Lots of wisdom in it.
 
KinasePro said:
Maybe I'd be the only poster, but I'd love to see a fitness sub forum on SDN. There are few places on the web with this many people who can critically analyze the literature and have a deep understanding of human physiology, so I think it'd make for some pretty interesting content.
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I'd like to see this as well. Imagine the result: safe, quick, effective workouts. (instead of "pick 2"?) You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.
 
joeBUCK said:
I don't sense your question/statement about your life is coming from a place of modesty; but rather from a place of ego. I was struck by the earlier description of your tomb stone having your research papers engraved next to it. Your accomplishments will serve better if they come from a place of service; not a place of accolades. I pose this question to you,"How would you feel if all your research and accompanying discoveries were done under a pseudonym?" Truthfully answer this to yourself; it will guide you.
I truly believe in doing what you are called to do in life, as long as you "Know who you are, Know what you are, Know how you serve". My point is, we all get "callings" in life, but you have to Know where the calling is originating. Like I tell medical students who come to me for advice "It's ok to go into medicine for money and/or prestige; but be ready to change, because life is "school" and it will teach you what you need to learn; the easy way or the hard way; decided by the origin of your choices".

I'm probably older than most on this forum. I've seen first hand these lessons being taught. 1). multiple physician suicides 2). innumerable life changing financially destructive divorces 3). suicide, addiction, and pregnancy rampant among children of physicians. I'm not saying this happens to all docs who have families, but it seems to happen to those who are eager to accomplish the most in the short amount of time life provides. "Time" is a bitch, but a damn good teacher.

If, right now, you were told that you have inoperable pancreatic cancer and you have at most 6 months to live, what would you do in the next few months?

joeBUCK MD
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I couldn't figure out how to express what I wanted to, so I circled the point with platitudes and BS. Your explanation was pretty much perfect.

The pseudonym part is going to be useful for me as well. If I'm not comfortable publishing/working with someone else getting the credit, I'm not happy "just doing the work." I'm happy because I expect to get something from it.

Thank you, that was very helpful
 
Kangal said:
I appreciate the insight. If I couldn't have my name associated with my work, I would be disappointed. Two things make me feel good, producing the work, and recognition. I wouldn't want to give up either. Honestly, I don't think I have met anyone who would be thrilled on not getting credit for their hard work. I like problem solving, I like working. I like being satisfied. How I get my satisfaction is my own demon. If someone told my mentor: Hey, you are still going to save lives and produce amazing research, but no one is going to thank you, and no one is going to look up to you, and no one is going to recognize that you are THE expert in your field, how do you think he would take that? Most guys would be pissed (maybe not Dr. House, but the guys I work with would). Because if you don't value that human recognition, then what, you only like problem solving? That seems to be reducing humans to a lot less than their worth. It's not black and white. It's a mix of emotional rewards that is what makes us do what we do. If I had 6 months to live - I'd realize that I'm not going to contribute anything to science in 6 months - my thesis still has another year, and go see my family. Now if you told me I had 20 years. Then I'd keep doing what I'm doing.
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Assigning genders because writing his/her becomes tedious.

1.) I don't think his point isn't that you should be some sub-human machine that loves working for the sake of working. I think his point is if you isolate the work by itself, it is clear you don't find it satisfying (or at least not enough to be worth it).
2.) The work itself is the only guarantee. Recognition and accolades are a gamble.
3.) This gamble is often lost, or not won to the point of satisfaction
4.) When won, many discover that the gamble was still not worth the cost
5.) The six months example shows what happens with a guaranteed loss, and may show you a better representation of your priorities.

Just some more of my thoughts.
 
Kangal said:
I appreciate the insight. If I couldn't have my name associated with my work, I would be disappointed. Two things make me feel good, producing the work, and recognition. I wouldn't want to give up either. Honestly, I don't think I have met anyone who would be thrilled on not getting credit for their hard work. I like problem solving, I like working. I like being satisfied. How I get my satisfaction is my own demon. If someone told my mentor: Hey, you are still going to save lives and produce amazing research, but no one is going to thank you, and no one is going to look up to you, and no one is going to recognize that you are THE expert in your field, how do you think he would take that? Most guys would be pissed (maybe not Dr. House, but the guys I work with would). Because if you don't value that human recognition, then what, you only like problem solving? That seems to be reducing humans to a lot less than their worth. It's not black and white. It's a mix of emotional rewards that is what makes us do what we do. If I had 6 months to live - I'd realize that I'm not going to contribute anything to science in 6 months - my thesis still has another year, and go see my family. Now if you told me I had 20 years. Then I'd keep doing what I'm doing.
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You are correct, satisfaction is your own demon. And since one of those things giving you satisfaction is getting recognition, what he's saying is this will end up eating you you alive and destroying you both in medical school and residency training, if not your mental health, in which many times you will not be getting that recognition and many times your flaws and mistakes will be scrutinized. You are approaching this very mathematically and black-and-white, like I almost think it's almost Asperger spectrum like in behavior (no offense).
 
Kangal said:
So far so good in medical school. Residency I can't speak for. Weird, but not the first time someone has called me out on the aspergers thing.
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Well I'm not sure what year you're in but MS-1/MS-2 is not actual medicine. It's essentially classroom didactics. The real name of the game is MS-3 when your Asperger's will create big problems.
 
lazers said:
Just remember my words when instead of a thank you, you're dealt with a frivolous lawsuit, eating up your time, energy, and most importantly your mental health.
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The ones in my class that went into medicine for "recognition" were the ones who were most disillusioned by the time medical school is over. You are no longer deified for being a physician. You are a person doing your job and providing a service. Period.
 
Kangal said:
I'm G3. Don't think M3 will be too bad. Step2 question are more fun than step1, and the lack of linearity they pose is something that doesn't bother me...because I don't actually have aspergers. I just tend to think that way when I feel it is useful to organize things as cleanly as possibly. You should see how organized my home is. I vacuum twice a week. Never leave a dish in the sink. When I get. A) take shoes up. B) walk to desk. C)empty pocket contents into drawer in desk. Do I ever deviate from this? Heck no. I believe in having systems when systems are appropriate. Which they aren't always.
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Step 2 CK multiple choice questions are not M3 rotations. It has nothing to do with linearity of subject matter. Don't try to equate the two. And you're just further confirming Asperger's.
 
Kangal said:
Awesome. you two are full fledged physicians waisting time on SDNs... you wonder why you are bitter and haven't positivity influence anyones life. Way to choose a boring speciality derm. Way to rack 7k post. You must see a ton of patients. And that melanoma that metastasized and is life threatening...let the surgeons handle it.
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It's wasting, not waisting (referring to one's waist). And if you divide the number of posts by the number of years and then days, it's about 4 posts a day. Hardly a gigantic number.

No one is "bitter". We've been thru medical school (including MS-3), while you've at most maybe finished basic science didactics, Step 1, and are in a lab, none of which are indicative of real clinical medicine.

Also, we try to catch melanoma before it fully metastasizes. Many times we do in Derm - General and Mohs. Also, you might want to actually learn that melanoma is many times treated in an interdisciplinary way with: Dermatology, Medical Oncology, Pathology, Surgical Oncology, etc. all contributing. There is no lone soldier in treating something. It's called working together in teams. Something you will obviously need a lot of work on, if you expect to make it thru. If not, expect to get a lot of "inability to work well with others" on your evaluations. Just being clinically knowledgeable, is no longer enough.

MS-3, with respect to interacting with attendings, residents, and fellow classmates, will be quite interesting for you.
 
Kangal said:
As for you derm. You chose a road specialty (at least thats what it seems like), so you'd have all the free time in the world to troll on SDN. Back off and go do something productive. What do you get from being a jackass to someone who is enthused with what he is doing?
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You equated that somehow you'll be fine on MS-3 rotations bc you found Step 2 CK multiple choice questions to be fun. If you can't see your lack of insight in the correlation between the two, then I can't help you. Also, if you're going to attack ROAD specialties, such as Radiation Oncology or Dermatology, at least know a little bit more about them.
 
Kangal said:
I'm G3. Don't think M3 will be too bad. Step2 question are more fun than step1, and the lack of linearity they pose is something that doesn't bother me...because I don't actually have aspergers. I just tend to think that way when I feel it is useful to organize things as cleanly as possibly. You should see how organized my home is. I vacuum twice a week. Never leave a dish in the sink. When I get. A) take shoes up. B) walk to desk. C)empty pocket contents into drawer in desk. Do I ever deviate from this? Heck no. I believe in having systems when systems are appropriate. Which they aren't always.
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Kangal said:
Because unlike you, I am doing 2 degrees. And unlike you, I gun hard. And unlike you, I have been attending rotation intramurally throughout the entirety of my PhD work to make sure my research goals are aligned with my clinical areas of interest.
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Kangal said:
Awesome. you two are full fledged physicians waisting time on SDNs... you wonder why you are bitter and haven't positivity influence anyones life. Way to choose a boring speciality derm. Way to rack 7k post. You must see a ton of patients. And that melanoma that metastasized and is life threatening...let the surgeons handle it.
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Kangal said:
I am on SDN. Because I am in lab. You are on SDN. Because you are...what? What pathetic excuse do you have you punk. You hate to see someone with bigger dreams than you, I've seen your post everywhere, all you do is troll.
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I change my mind, you'll do smashingly well in medical school, once you get back into M3. Tell me how OB-Gyn and General Surgery go. Heck, let me know how Pediatrics goes.
 
Kangal said:
Honestly. I do like derm. I like the sciencey side of it. And could see myself doing derm lab work. I'm just heated right now. Skin is large, disease are vast. Clean and clear overlap to basic sciences. For some reason though, I am fairly certain that you Derm, do not know a damn thing about real science. Send me a list with your basic science pubs, that'll make me trust you.
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I can tell. Probably should work on the temper.

When did I ever make the claim that I'm a physician scientist (MD/PhD)? Are you seriously going to make the assertion that if you're not a physician scientist, that somehow then you can't like the science behind things? Really?
 
Kangal said:
254. Why does that matter? Because if I scored crappy you'd have knowledge for me. I would't be head over heals gunning for a specialty that interest me if I didn't know for certain I was a qualified applicant.
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Yup, no insight at all. I hope SDNers now know why programs interview applicants, rather than just go based solely off of Step 1 score. A Step score does not excuse personality issues.

Kangal said:
I wish I could talk down to you like you are talking down to me...but I am not a physician yet. What reassures me to not take you opinion very seriously, is that you are not someone I aspire to be like. I assume you aren't a PhD. Your speciality though competitive is lame. And you need to justify everyone of my post with some witty remark enforcing that you are further along your career path. Yes I make stupid typos. Yes I am first gen to this country. Yes I scored high on my step 1. Sorry that I am confident that the struggle of M3 will not be crippling. I guess some of us don't mind working hard, you lazy derm ****. Now of course, I would't talk to my colleagues like this. And yes, I know I can be banned from SDN. Frankly, I don't really care if I can't talk to you. Because unfortunately, all the Nsurgeons worth talking to are busy working.
Click to expand...

Um, I never asked about your Step score, you being a first generation American, etc. so don't attribute those statements to me. As much as you say you don't have Asperger's, every statement you make supports that you do. Again, your very lack of insight is exactly what PDs are trying to filter out when they interview applicants and that includes Neurosurgery.
 
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