Worth it to specialize?

[DS2027]

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With grad plus loans being capped, I’m curious if specializing is still worth it? Im in my third year of dental school, and I’ll finish dental school with around $360,000 in debt. Depending on the residency, whether it has a stipend or not, I could be taking out around another $200,000 give or take. However, I would have to take out private loans and idk if it’s worth it to have a 14% interest rate on a loan that big along with interest accruing on my loans from dental school while in residency. I’ve talked to some endodontists and periodontists about earning potential. Most have said $500k is average or pretty attainable, some say $800k is doable. I have a friend and his dad makes over $1 million in endo (which I get might be rare). I know a general dentist who makes over $700k, which with DSOs and saturation this is probably hard to do now a days. Is it worth it to take out private loans for this earning potential? I’ve thought about just working for a few years to pay down the loans and then maybe going back to specialize.

 

[JacquesVallee]

With grad plus loans being capped, I’m curious if specializing is still worth it? Im in my third year of dental school, and I’ll finish dental school with around $360,000 in debt. Depending on the residency, whether it has a stipend or not, I could be taking out around another $200,000 give or take. However, I would have to take out private loans and idk if it’s worth it to have a 14% interest rate on a loan that big along with interest accruing on my loans from dental school while in residency. I’ve talked to some endodontists and periodontists about earning potential. Most have said $500k is average or pretty attainable, some say $800k is doable. I have a friend and his dad makes over $1 million in endo (which I get might be rare). I know a general dentist who makes over $700k, which with DSOs and saturation this is probably hard to do now a days. Is it worth it to take out private loans for this earning potential? I’ve thought about just working for a few years to pay down the loans and then maybe going back to specialize.

Practice as a GD first to discern if and what you want to specialize in, pay down your loans, and then go to residency. Endo really really values pp experience.

 

[D1Bound]

Likely not unless it’s not tuition based like anesthesia, OMS, etc.

 

[TheLastDance]

Extreme caution on taking 100-300K extra in debt at 10-20% YoY. You will never pay that back with private lenders.

 

[DS2027]

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Practice as a GD first to discern if and what you want to specialize in, pay down your loans, and then go to residency. Endo really really values pp experience.

I was considering doing a GPR before applying to endo. With the new loan structure I’m leaning towards general dentistry for a few years and then apply after I can lay down the loans a bit.

 

[DS2027]

[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]]" data-quote="D[emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]Bound" data-source="post: 0" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Likely not unless it’s not tuition based like anesthesia, OMS, etc.

I heard OMFS you have to pay tuition for the med school portion…?

 

[DS2027]

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Extreme caution on taking [emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]-[emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]K extra in debt at [emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]-[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]% YoY. You will never pay that back with private lenders.

Yeah I’m really not interested in doing that haha. The interest is too much and private loans aren’t as forgiving for various reasons.

 

[JacquesVallee]

I was considering doing a GPR before applying to endo. With the new loan structure I’m leaning towards general dentistry for a few years and then apply after I can lay down the loans a bit.

Honestly, find a rural mentor and just get to work your first year. You'll learn so much and make decent money. It's what I did. You can always move back to the city later.

 

[DS2027]

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Honestly, find a rural mentor and just get to work your first year. You'll learn so much and make decent money. It's what I did. You can always move back to the city later.

I don’t even like the city, I plan to move [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]]ish mins away from the city. There is a doctor I use to work for, when I was an assistant, that I would like to work for because he’d be a great mentor. Would you recommend a GPR at all for someone who’s planning on doing general dentistry? I’ve been hesitant about the idea of just hoping I get a good mentor.

 

[JacquesVallee]

I don’t even like the city, I plan to move [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]]ish mins away from the city. There is a doctor I use to work for, when I was an assistant, that I would like to work for because he’d be a great mentor. Would you recommend a GPR at all for someone who’s planning on doing general dentistry? I’ve been hesitant about the idea of just hoping I get a good mentor.

Don't do a GPR. Go straight into rural practice. You'll learn more in 3 weeks than all of dental school. It's exactly what I did, and I don't regret it.

 

[SuxDrugs&Rocuronium]

Very dependent on the specialty and if you have to pay more tuition or if you’ll get stipend. Average incomes tend to be higher in a specialty but you have to take other factors into account such as loans, ownership etc. that being said there can be a lot of money in certain specialties as an associate or owner (anesthesia and omfs to name a couple)

 

[Life of Pablo]

Do OMFS. Why would anyone ever do Perio? No offense. For one additional year you can do OMFS......

 

[princeafrica]

Do OMFS. Why would anyone ever do Perio? No offense. For one additional year you can do OMFS......

Have you changed your opinion about going to the cheapest school? 😉

 

[Lemillion]

Hmmm worth it to specialize if you enjoy the specialty and can see yourself doing it long-term. How we perceive it during dental school can be a contrast in the real world. For example, when you're in school ortho is lower stress, patients are happier and it's pretty cool seeing the change in their occlusion through tx. That's all true but in private practice, it's a lot of networking, marketing and sales. You're sending gifts to GPs, peds and trying to start cases to keep the flow going. IMO, higher extraversion requirement on the business side.

In contrast, peds residency, on call, trauma, papoose, sedation, GA, lots of crying-etc. Private practice side-you don't have to worry about referrals and networking as much; patients find you. GPs happily refer the kids they don't want to treat to you. Ortho, OMFS sending you gifts for your referrals.

Overall, I don't regret specializing but I do recommend visiting some private practices to see how their day to day life is. Money side of things, I went to a state school so my debt burden upon graduating was low and then peds residency was paid (hospital-based) so I paid off my debt after the first two years in private practice.

Ortho residency has been $$$ but my debt load is a fraction of my peers who went to all private dental schools and residency programs.

 

[DS2027]

[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]]]" data-quote="Lemillion" data-source="post: 0" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Hmmm worth it to specialize if you enjoy the specialty and can see yourself doing it long-term. How we perceive it during dental school can be a contrast in the real world. For example, when you're in school ortho is lower stress, patients are happier and it's pretty cool seeing the change in their occlusion through tx. That's all true but in private practice, it's a lot of networking, marketing and sales. You're sending gifts to GPs, peds and trying to start cases to keep the flow going. IMO, higher extraversion requirement on the business side.

In contrast, peds residency, on call, trauma, papoose, sedation, GA, lots of crying-etc. Private practice side-you don't have to worry about referrals and networking as much; patients find you. GPs happily refer the kids they don't want to treat to you. Ortho, OMFS sending you gifts for your referrals.

Overall, I don't regret specializing but I do recommend visiting some private practices to see how their day to day life is. Money side of things, I went to a state school so my debt burden upon graduating was low and then peds residency was paid (hospital-based) so I paid off my debt after the first two years in private practice.

Ortho residency has been $$$ but my debt load is a fraction of my peers who went to all private dental schools and residency programs.

Yeah that’s why I’m hesitant to jump into a residency because I have very limited experience so not completely sure what I’ll enjoy doing. I’m leaning towards going to practice for a few years and if I don’t care for general dentistry then go back and specialize. I know this is very situational, but how doable is it to pay off $[emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]k as a general dentist?

 

[FeralisExtremum]

For example, when you're in school ortho is lower stress, patients are happier and it's pretty cool seeing the change in their occlusion through tx. That's all true but in private practice, it's a lot of networking, marketing and sales. You're sending gifts to GPs, peds and trying to start cases to keep the flow going. IMO, higher extraversion requirement on the business side.

Very true and definitely something I wish I had known before specializing.

 

[Lemillion]

Yeah that’s why I’m hesitant to jump into a residency because I have very limited experience so not completely sure what I’ll enjoy doing. I’m leaning towards going to practice for a few years and if I don’t care for general dentistry then go back and specialize. I know this is very situational, but how doable is it to pay off $[emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoj]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]k as a general dentist?

Yes practicing for a few years to see what you like is very common! I've had friends who had no inkling of practicing peds during dental school, end up as a GP treating kids and then decided to go back for peds residency.

As for $$$ repayment, it's a combination of city/state you practice in, lifestyle inflation, contract and production (skill) ability. I've seen people practice in big cities doing the same thing as someone rural but the pay can be 2-3x difference.

 

[JacquesVallee]

Very true and definitely something I wish I had known before specializing.

Would you still do Ortho again?

 

[FeralisExtremum]

Would you still do Ortho again?

Personally no. Not really what I expected it to be, and more difficult than I thought it would be.

 

[JacquesVallee]

Personally no. Not really what I expected it to be, and more difficult than I thought it would be.

Thank you for your candid answer. What would you do instead?

 

[FeralisExtremum]

Thank you for your candid answer. What would you do instead?

If I was to still do dentistry and I was a little younger in dental school, probably oral surgery.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

Obviously this is a career you’re going to be doing for a long time, so it has to be something that you enjoy doing. If you’re drawn to a specific specialty you will have to weigh your passion for that specialty against other things.

But from a purely financial perspective, I often make the argument that the opportunity cost of going to residency is not worth it in many cases. I made this post a while back, before the changes to the loan system were made. Things have since caused an even bigger shift to general dentistry in my opinion. As an owner the sky is the limit and the time advantage to make a high income after just four years of school while others are in residency has exponential benefits if you make sound investment decisions. I graduated 3 years ago and am on track to make over $450k this year as an associate. Would be tough to forego that to pursue residency just to graduate and work a job that isn’t all sunshine and rainbows. My friends who did peds HATE the volume of patients they see. They do a lot of low production procedures. My friends who do ortho hate the volume they see and a lot of them struggle to get a full time job. My oral surgery friends are still slaving away in residency suffering through long 24+ hour shifts and ICU shifts. I already paid off all of my loans and have a decent amount of passive income coming in and have a lot of flexibility moving forward.

The Financial Argument For General Dentistry

 

[DS2027]

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Obviously this is a career you’re going to be doing for a long time, so it has to be something that you enjoy doing. If you’re drawn to a specific specialty you will have to weigh your passion for that specialty against other things.

But from a purely financial perspective, I often make the argument that the opportunity cost of going to residency is not worth it in many cases. I made this post a while back, before the changes to the loan system were made. Things have since caused an even bigger shift to general dentistry in my opinion. As an owner the sky is the limit and the time advantage to make a high income after just four years of school while others are in residency has exponential benefits if you make sound investment decisions. I graduated [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]] years ago and am on track to make over $[emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]k this year as an associate. Would be tough to forego that to pursue residency just to graduate and work a job that isn’t all sunshine and rainbows. My friends who did peds HATE the volume of patients they see. They do a lot of low production procedures. My friends who do ortho hate the volume they see and a lot of them struggle to get a full time job. My oral surgery friends are still slaving away in residency suffering through long [emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]]+ hour shifts and ICU shifts. I already paid off all of my loans and have a decent amount of passive income coming in and have a lot of flexibility moving forward.

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Financial Argument For General Dentistry

How much did you take out in loans if you don’t mind me asking? Yeah I think my hesitation for general dentistry comes from seeing Reddit posts and some dentists at school saying that it was hard for them to break $[emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]k after years practicing. I understand that there’s many things that factor into what someone is able to make. [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]k as an associate is really good, I feel like that’s not typical though?

 

[JacquesVallee]

as an associate is really good, I feel like that’s not typical though?

Correct. Not even remotely typical. Nobody reading this should think they will make anywhere near 450k as an associate. Complete outlier. That's more than most owners. Expect 120-140k starting.

 

[DS2027]

Correct. Not even remotely typical. Nobody reading this should think they will make anywhere near 450k as an associate. Complete outlier. That's more than most owners. Expect 120-140k starting.

I feel like in my state, a lot of recent grads I talk to are around 150-180. Some clearing 200k their first year. Which I get is also not typical either.

 

[omfsing]

Obviously this is a career you’re going to be doing for a long time, so it has to be something that you enjoy doing. If you’re drawn to a specific specialty you will have to weigh your passion for that specialty against other things.

But from a purely financial perspective, I often make the argument that the opportunity cost of going to residency is not worth it in many cases. I made this post a while back, before the changes to the loan system were made. Things have since caused an even bigger shift to general dentistry in my opinion. As an owner the sky is the limit and the time advantage to make a high income after just four years of school while others are in residency has exponential benefits if you make sound investment decisions. I graduated 3 years ago and am on track to make over $450k this year as an associate. Would be tough to forego that to pursue residency just to graduate and work a job that isn’t all sunshine and rainbows. My friends who did peds HATE the volume of patients they see. They do a lot of low production procedures. My friends who do ortho hate the volume they see and a lot of them struggle to get a full time job. My oral surgery friends are still slaving away in residency suffering through long 24+ hour shifts and ICU shifts. I already paid off all of my loans and have a decent amount of passive income coming in and have a lot of flexibility moving forward.

The Financial Argument For General Dentistry

OS here

Three years out of residency and work as an associate. First year out I made 800k and now I make 1.2 mil a year.

I work 3.5 days a week, I don’t take call, I don’t work weekends. All my patients are sedated and I have a marketing team that helps get patients in the door, a yearly CE allowance, and no one dictates my schedule. I take as much or as little vacation as I want

Best part is I’m not even busy, wayyy more room to expand

Just to put things into perspective

Very worth specializing

 

[JacquesVallee]

I feel like in my state, a lot of recent grads I talk to are around 150-180. Some clearing 200k their first year. Which I get is also not typical either.

No way. I don't trust the work of a new grad producing enough to make 200k. It takes time to produce quick work that is of high quality. Moreover, how are new grads making more than the average dentist? Doesn't make any sense.

 

[DS2027]

[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]" data-quote="omfsing" data-source="post: 0" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

OS here

Three years out of residency and work as an associate. First year out I made [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]k and now I make [emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]].[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]] mil a year.

I work [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]].[emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]] days a week, I don’t take call, I don’t work weekends. All my patients are sedated and I have a marketing team that helps get patients in the door, a yearly CE allowance, and no one dictates my schedule. I take as much of as little vacation as I want

Best part is I’m not even busy, wayyy more room to expand

Just to put things into perspective

Very worth specializing

You think its still worth it to take out private loans to specialize? I was told with OMFS you have to pay for tuition for the med school portion. Is it worth it if the max one would make with a specialty is around [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]k? And I get that’s a lot of money but it’s also a lot of debt to take on. Especially if half of it is in private loans.

 

[DS2027]

[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]" data-quote="JacquesVallee" data-source="post: 0" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

No way. I don't trust the work of a new grad producing enough to make [emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]k. It takes time to get produce quick work that is of high quality. Moreover, how are new grads making more than the average dentist? Doesn't make any sense.

But I think averages a kind of skewed, no? The dentist I worked for said to expect to make around $[emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]k (not the first year out of course) he says that’s doable.

 

[JacquesVallee]

But I think averages a kind of skewed, no?

It is skewed up by older dentists who practiced own successful practices. Expect 120-140k starting. If you get into a GME funded residency, specializing can be totally worth it as it will certainly yield a higher average income than a GP associate.

 

[DS2027]

[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]" data-quote="JacquesVallee" data-source="post: 0" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

It is skewed up by older dentists who practiced own successful practices. Expect [emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]-[emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]k starting. If you get into a GME funded residency, specializing can be totally worth it as it will certainly yield a higher average income than a GP associate.

I was interested in OMFS for the longest time, but [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]]-[emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]]] years is a huge commitment for a residency like that. So I started leaning towards endo. With DSOs taking over specializing seems like a better option, maybe? I think at this point I’m probably leaning towards practicing for a bit and then decide if I want to specialize after a few years

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

How much did you take out in loans if you don’t mind me asking? Yeah I think my hesitation for general dentistry comes from seeing Reddit posts and some dentists at school saying that it was hard for them to break $[emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]k after years practicing. I understand that there’s many things that factor into what someone is able to make. [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]k as an associate is really good, I feel like that’s not typical though?

I had $250k in loans. I’m definitely making more than the average associate, but I’m not some clinical prodigy or anything. Once you’re an owner sky is the limit.

But the nice thing about making the money younger is that you can get passive income sooner. I’m not far from 6 figures in passive income per year and I’m in my twenties.

 

[DS2027]

[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]]]" data-quote="Pablo Sanchez" data-source="post: 0" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

I had $[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]k in loans. I’m definitely making more than the average associate, but I’m not some clinical prodigy or anything. Once you’re an owner sky is the limit.

But the nice thing about making the money younger is that you can get passive income sooner. I’m not far from [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]]] figures in passive income per year and I’m in my twenties.

Whats the high end with ownership? Even if the high end is say [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]k. Thats probably pretty difficult to do? It would be fairly easier to do that as a specialist and more likely ti make that amount.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

Whats the high end with ownership? Even if the high end is say [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]k. Thats probably pretty difficult to do? It would be fairly easier to do that as a specialist and more likely ti make that amount.

There is no high end. Look up Rick Workman. Founder of Heartland dental.

It’s about how much you can scale a business and less about how much dentistry you can produce. If you have other staff members (associates and hygienists) producing for you, you can scale the business as large as you want. I have a couple very close mentors making multiple million per year. If you’re solely focused on how much you can produce as an individual, well then, yeah, there’s going to be some limit.

 

[D1Bound]

I had $250k in loans. I’m definitely making more than the average associate, but I’m not some clinical prodigy or anything. Once you’re an owner sky is the limit.

But the nice thing about making the money younger is that you can get passive income sooner. I’m not far from 6 figures in passive income per year and I’m in my twenties.

What’s your passive income?

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

What’s your passive income?

That’s going to vary each year, but theoretically if you can make $400k as a dentist. Post tax (state dependent) it’s around $260k. If you live off of $60k and invest $200k per year. You’ll have over $1 million invested in 4-5 years. The S&P500 averages 10% a year. A growth stock index fund is more volatile, but averages 12% a year. 12% of $1 million puts you at $120k in passive income in a single year and that amount is going to increase over time.

Now stocks can go down. It’s not like you can just assume you’ll make that much money every year, but it’s an average you can plan on. But it’s nice when you can look and say hey I made $400k this year as a dentist, and my net worth increased an additional $120k for doing nothing. Eventually you can go down to 3 days a week or retire all together.

 

[omfsing]

You think its still worth it to take out private loans to specialize? I was told with OMFS you have to pay for tuition for the med school portion. Is it worth it if the max one would make with a specialty is around [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]k? And I get that’s a lot of money but it’s also a lot of debt to take on. Especially if half of it is in private loans.

I moonlighted in medical school and paid off my med school tuition and some loans during that time.

 

[SuxDrugs&Rocuronium]

OS here

Three years out of residency and work as an associate. First year out I made 800k and now I make 1.2 mil a year.

I work 3.5 days a week, I don’t take call, I don’t work weekends. All my patients are sedated and I have a marketing team that helps get patients in the door, a yearly CE allowance, and no one dictates my schedule. I take as much or as little vacation as I want

Best part is I’m not even busy, wayyy more room to expand

Just to put things into perspective

Very worth specializing

Exactly. It’s often talked about how much you can make as an owner GP, but the potential as a specialist is insane.

 

[D1Bound]

OS here

Three years out of residency and work as an associate. First year out I made 800k and now I make 1.2 mil a year.

I work 3.5 days a week, I don’t take call, I don’t work weekends. All my patients are sedated and I have a marketing team that helps get patients in the door, a yearly CE allowance, and no one dictates my schedule. I take as much or as little vacation as I want

Best part is I’m not even busy, wayyy more room to expand

Just to put things into perspective

Very worth specializing

Yea I like this plan this guy is working

 

[Life of Pablo]

OS here

Three years out of residency and work as an associate. First year out I made 800k and now I make 1.2 mil a year.

I work 3.5 days a week, I don’t take call, I don’t work weekends. All my patients are sedated and I have a marketing team that helps get patients in the door, a yearly CE allowance, and no one dictates my schedule. I take as much or as little vacation as I want

Best part is I’m not even busy, wayyy more room to expand

Just to put things into perspective

Very worth specializing

Exactly. Residency sucks, but I've never met an OMS that wishes they hadnt done OMS after practicing.

I always encourage dental students I meet to do OMS if they are able to. I know I'm biased, but it truly is the best specialty in medicine/dentistry.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

OMFS is a great specialty! Can be very financially and professionally rewarding. The fact of the matter is that a lot of people who do dentistry do it to avoid going through all the **** that you have to go through in medicine which kinda rules out OMFS for them. If that’s up your alley, then go for it.

But with today’s cost of dental school, medical school, interest rate, private loan interest rate, without family support the cost of pursuing OMFS starts to get to be out of hand. You can be $1 million in debt in your 30s just starting out as a OMFS, sure, have a great income.

Or you can put in your four years of dental school, work hard and invest properly, and have over $1 million invested making passive income before the OMFS guy is even done residency. If you are disciplined and able to invest $200k per year during the 6 years someone is pursuing OMFS, you can be a general dentist with $1.7 million invested (assuming that 12% growth fund return) while the OS is graduating and busting their ass to pay off their now $1 million in loans in their mid 30s. By then the general dentist can scale back if that’s the life they choose or have an established practice as an owner where their income will also go up.

No right or wrong way! Choose the path you want. Like I said OMFS can be very financially rewarding if that’s what interests you. The fact of the matter is, for most people, it’s not. And that’s okay. There are other ways to financial success.

 

[JacquesVallee]

Your average OMFS will be far better off than your average GP. No doubt about it.

 

[omfsing]

OMFS is a great specialty! Can be very financially and professionally rewarding. The fact of the matter is that a lot of people who do dentistry do it to avoid going through all the **** that you have to go through in medicine which kinda rules out OMFS for them. If that’s up your alley, then go for it.

But with today’s cost of dental school, medical school, interest rate, private loan interest rate, without family support the cost of pursuing OMFS starts to get to be out of hand. You can be $1 million in debt in your 30s just starting out as a OMFS, sure, have a great income.

Or you can put in your four years of dental school, work hard and invest properly, and have over $1 million invested making passive income before the OMFS guy is even done residency. If you are disciplined and able to invest $200k per year during the 6 years someone is pursuing OMFS, you can be a general dentist with $1.7 million invested (assuming that 12% growth fund return) while the OS is graduating and busting their ass to pay off their now $1 million in loans in their mid 30s. By then the general dentist can scale back if that’s the life they choose or have an established practice as an owner where their income will also go up.

No right or wrong way! Choose the path you want. Like I said OMFS can be very financially rewarding if that’s what interests you. The fact of the matter is, for most people, it’s not. And that’s okay. There are other ways to financial success.

I’m an OMFS and I don’t know anyone who has a million in debt. You do know you’re paid during residency and typically get instate tuition for medical school. Most of us moonlight during med school and can easily pay off that tuition as there is sooooo much free time in med school vs dental school. Also, if you sign a contract with a PE company in your first year residency they’ll pay you an additional 60K per year on top of your resident salary. When you combine the PE stipend, resident salary, and moonlighting money I know residents who are making over 150K a year.

Also, aside from financial rewarding, think about how broad scope the profession is. We can work literally on any aspect of the human body. You can do full body plastics, head and neck cancer surgery, and cleft lip and palate or straight private practice. You can even do a hybrid of some of those.

When you make the money we do and at times have a patient say “you saved my life doc,” what else can be more rewarding?

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

I’m an OMFS and I don’t know anyone who has a million in debt. You do know you’re paid during residency and typically get instate tuition for medical school. Most of us moonlight during med school and can easily pay off that tuition as there is sooooo much free time in med school vs dental school. Also, if you sign a contract with a PE company in your first year residency they’ll pay you an additional 60K per year on top of your resident salary. When you combine the PE stipend, resident salary, and moonlighting money I know residents who are making over 150K a year.

Also, aside from financial rewarding, think about how broad scope the profession is. We can work literally on any aspect of the human body. You can do full body plastics, head and neck cancer surgery, and cleft lip and palate or straight private practice. You can even do a hybrid of some of those.

When you make the money we do and at times have a patient say “you saved my life doc,” what else can be more rewarding?

Can definitely be very rewarding and I have such high respect for those who do it. Most of my very best friends are doing OMFS.

But the reality for students today, which is different from when you went to school, is that the cost of dental school has exploded and federal student loans are being capped at $200k. So if one goes to a $700k school, which is out there these days, and has to cover $500k of that with private loans at 10%+. Interest is going to be ballooning every step of the way. You’re talking $100k in post tax money just to pay down the interest on $1 million. In that tax bracket, 40% of your income is going to taxes so you have to make $150k in gross income JUST to cover the interest and not pay down any of the loan. And not everyone gets straight in. You add a non-cat year in and it balloons even more. So there are cases where you are looking at $1 million. There are programs that do not allow you to moonlight.

And the fact of the matter is that not everyone wants to do that kind of work that you talk about. It’s great work! I’m sure it’s rewarding. But you guys work hard as hell to get there, and most people in dentistry chose dentistry to avoid that life or, quite frankly, cannot cut it. So for those reading this that are not interested in full body plastics or head and neck surgery (which most dental students are not, otherwise they should be in medical school) then they have other options that can result in great financial success. You don’t have to be doomed as a GP. You can have massive financial success. You can be a multi millionaire in your 30s if you are financially disciplined. That’s my whole point. I understand that most people aren’t. I understand that most people graduate, get some crap job, work 3.5 days a week because they feel like they earned it and shouldn’t have to work 5. I get that most people don’t want to live on $60k. They want instant gratification. I get I’m not the average person. But general dentistry can be very rewarding both financially and professionally, without the time, debt, and higher risk nature of the day to day, and there’s something to be said for that.

My partner is a physician who looks at dentistry and thinks, wow, must be nice to only have to do 4 years and to be able to see the financial rewards that I see as a GP without having to do residency. She’ll be the first to tell me I’m not typical. But she didn’t even know that it’s possible. She’s slaving away working nights and 6 days a week in residency. Not everyone wants to do that.

A lot of what I post on here is just to encourage others that it can be done, but it’s not just going to happen for you. You have to work hard, be intentional, and be financially disciplined to see the most financial reward from dentistry. Not everyone wants to do that either.

 

[HockeyDocOMFS]

I’m an OMFS and I don’t know anyone who has a million in debt. You do know you’re paid during residency and typically get instate tuition for medical school. Most of us moonlight during med school and can easily pay off that tuition as there is sooooo much free time in med school vs dental school. Also, if you sign a contract with a PE company in your first year residency they’ll pay you an additional 60K per year on top of your resident salary. When you combine the PE stipend, resident salary, and moonlighting money I know residents who are making over 150K a year.

Also, aside from financial rewarding, think about how broad scope the profession is. We can work literally on any aspect of the human body. You can do full body plastics, head and neck cancer surgery, and cleft lip and palate or straight private practice. You can even do a hybrid of some of those.

When you make the money we do and at times have a patient say “you saved my life doc,” what else can be more rewarding?

As an OMFS resident, you are insane if you think we are competent in doing BBLs and tummy tucks after a 1 year fellowship

 

[omfsing]

As an OMFS resident, you are insane if you think we are competent in doing BBLs and tummy tucks after a 1 year fellowship

Haha I agree, I’m just saying you can if you want

 

[OrphanageCaretaker]

OS here

Three years out of residency and work as an associate. First year out I made 800k and now I make 1.2 mil a year.

I work 3.5 days a week, I don’t take call, I don’t work weekends. All my patients are sedated and I have a marketing team that helps get patients in the door, a yearly CE allowance, and no one dictates my schedule. I take as much or as little vacation as I want

Best part is I’m not even busy, wayyy more room to expand

Just to put things into perspective

Very worth specializing

What’s your day to day like?
Are you working for a big corporate chain or bought into a small group?
What is your take home/tax rate for your income?

 

[New_Vegas]

With grad plus loans being capped, I’m curious if specializing is still worth it? Im in my third year of dental school, and I’ll finish dental school with around $360,000 in debt. Depending on the residency, whether it has a stipend or not, I could be taking out around another $200,000 give or take. However, I would have to take out private loans and idk if it’s worth it to have a 14% interest rate on a loan that big along with interest accruing on my loans from dental school while in residency. I’ve talked to some endodontists and periodontists about earning potential. Most have said $500k is average or pretty attainable, some say $800k is doable. I have a friend and his dad makes over $1 million in endo (which I get might be rare). I know a general dentist who makes over $700k, which with DSOs and saturation this is probably hard to do now a days. Is it worth it to take out private loans for this earning potential? I’ve thought about just working for a few years to pay down the loans and then maybe going back to specialize.

What you've quoted here is not typical salaries and way above average. I wouldn't expect to make that, or anywhere near it.

 

[omfsing]

What’s your day to day like?
Are you working for a big corporate chain or bought into a small group?
What is your take home/tax rate for your income?

PM me