Would a Physician's Stance Creationism/Evolutionism Make You Question Their Competence as a Doctor?

Afp0731

2+ Year Member
Jan 21, 2015
372
246
Status
Pre-Medical
I have been following Dr. Ben Carson's political campaign and noticed how much negative attention he receives for being both a neurosurgeon and creationist. Many people seem to have trouble accepting that a medical doctor, especially a globally-respected neurosurgeon, could reject evolution and yet still be trustworthy as a physician. What are your thoughts on that matter?
 
Aug 26, 2015
68
14
Status
Pre-Medical
A person's strength as a scientist/doctor is largely innate intelligence and work ethic. A person's religious beliefs are defined almost entirely by that person's childhood. Ben Carson went from the very bottom to the very top, all by trusting in his religion, so of course he holds dear to it. It is his religion that got him this far, so for him to reject his religion would be stupid.
 

NotASerialKiller

2+ Year Member
Jul 7, 2015
1,457
6,866
Status
Medical Student
So much research is based on the fact that organisms can evolve. I don't understand why you can't just believe that God created a world in which life can evolve. How do you get antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria without evolution?
So I have no problem with a doctor thinking that we are all God's creations (that evolution does not explain THAT). I have a huge problem with a doctor who denies that evolution is a process that occurs in the world.
 

RangerBob

7+ Year Member
Sep 16, 2012
1,340
1,134
Status
Attending Physician
I doubt half of what politicians say say they believe is what they actually believe. Dr. Carson (and much of the Republican candidates) stand to benefit by professing a belief in creationism. Liberal politicians do it just as much.

Personally I want a physician who is competent and cares about my well-being. I don't see how Dr. Carson believing in evolution vs creationism changes that. I don't know anything about him personally though, so if he were a "militant believer" one way or the other, that would make me question his ability to be open-minded and his tolerance for ideas different than what he's used to.

Like many out there, I don't see how evolution threatens the existence of God. The Catholic Church supports evolution (not necessarily all Catholics do, but the official Church standing is evolution explains our physical existence and God explains our spiritual existence)
 

cryhavoc

5+ Year Member
Apr 20, 2014
789
491
Park Row
Status
Medical Student
Agreed with RangerBob, in order to get a certain number of votes, certain opinions must be fake. He might secretly believe in evolution and still be deeply religious.
 

ndafife

5+ Year Member
Jun 16, 2014
1,237
1,717
Status
Resident [Any Field]
As a medical student who also majored in Evolutionary Biology and Zoology, for the most part I would have no issue. Med school is hard, getting into med school is hard, separating conjoined twins at the neck is even harder.

Understanding the facts of evolution really don't affect one's day to day operation as a doctor outside of cases related to viral and bacterial evolution (aka new strains/antibiotic resistance)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 643320
Aug 26, 2015
68
14
Status
Pre-Medical
Am I the only one who thinks Ben Carson should start my running for senator, then governor, then after he has political experience, then run for president? Just watching him at the GOP debate made me nervous!
 

steelersfan1243

5+ Year Member
May 9, 2013
435
561
Status
Pre-Medical
I doubt half of what politicians say say they believe is what they actually believe. Dr. Carson (and much of the Republican candidates) stand to benefit by professing a belief in creationism. Liberal politicians do it just as much.

Personally I want a physician who is competent and cares about my well-being. I don't see how Dr. Carson believing in evolution vs creationism changes that. I don't know anything about him personally though, so if he were a "militant believer" one way or the other, that would make me question his ability to be open-minded and his tolerance for ideas different than what he's used to.

Like many out there, I don't see how evolution threatens the existence of God. The Catholic Church supports evolution (not necessarily all Catholics do, but the official Church standing is evolution explains our physical existence and God explains our spiritual existence)
Seriously, I think this is the only reason Trump is having so much success. He is unfiltered. What he is saying he actually believes, this sort of transparency has been rare to see in politics and people are voting for him for that reason
 

Pusheen

silently judging
2+ Year Member
Nov 26, 2014
1,758
2,300
The Golden State
Status
Medical Student
So much research is based on the fact that organisms can evolve. I don't understand why you can't just believe that God created a world in which life can evolve. How do you get antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria without evolution?
So I have no problem with a doctor thinking that we are all God's creations (that evolution does not explain THAT). I have a huge problem with a doctor who denies that evolution is a process that occurs in the world.
This. I don't really see why they have to be mutually exclusive.
Often, Christians or other religious folk have a knee-jerk response to the word 'evolution' because they think it automatically equates to origin of life, and thus is in disagreement with their beliefs. The word has been (erroneously) used to describe everything from spontaneous generation to antibiotic resistance to biochemical origins of life. The classical definition of change over time doesn't necessarily contradict any religion.
 

ZedsDed

You know what really grinds my gears?
2+ Year Member
Nov 19, 2014
9,367
10,190
Status
Medical Student
Oh don't get me wrong. If s/he starts foaming at the mouth and telling me that vaccines are going to make my penis fall off, I'm outta there. But we all walk around with delusions.
 

efle

not an elf
5+ Year Member
Apr 6, 2014
11,669
15,441
Status
Medical Student
This. I don't really see why they have to be mutually exclusive.
Often, Christians or other religious folk have a knee-jerk response to the word 'evolution' because they think it automatically equates to origin of life, and thus is in disagreement with their beliefs. The word has been (erroneously) used to describe everything from spontaneous generation to antibiotic resistance to biochemical origins of life. The classical definition of change over time doesn't necessarily contradict any religion.
How is antibiotic resistance not evolution? And the people who think animals were literally all made the same day obviously take issue with evo
 
  • Like
Reactions: rachiie01
Aug 26, 2015
68
14
Status
Pre-Medical
I think you have to understand microevolution vs. macroevolution. That is where most of the conflict will likely arise when it comes to evolution vs. religion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: steelersfan1243

Pusheen

silently judging
2+ Year Member
Nov 26, 2014
1,758
2,300
The Golden State
Status
Medical Student
How is antibiotic resistance not evolution? And the people who think animals were literally all made the same day obviously take issue with evo
eh, I was including erroneous and non-erroneous definitions in that list, I should have phrased it differently. My point was that the word is used for a wide variety of concepts and thus causes unnecessary controversy.
I said it didn't necessarily contradict. Religious writings are ambiguous enough to be interpreted in a variety of ways, aka one day isn't a literal day. It's just a matter of where people believe origins/creation stopped and evolution kicked in.
 
Aug 26, 2015
68
14
Status
Pre-Medical
Just curious...who thinks the big bang WAS creation? And God created by evolution.

Second question, which came first, DNA that codes for protein, or the proteins that replicate DNA?
 

steelersfan1243

5+ Year Member
May 9, 2013
435
561
Status
Pre-Medical
Just curious...who thinks the big bang WAS creation? And God created by evolution.

Second question, which came first, DNA that codes for protein, or the proteins that replicate DNA?
So when it comes to deciding the origin of life's small molecule, DNA has largely been left out of the debate. To transition from DNA-->RNA-->Protein, this is too much to just happen in the little time of Earth's existence. I believe the debate relies on RNA and Protein. Now still, to transition from RNA and Protein, the RNA World problem still faces the issue that there has not been enough time for RNA to evolve into Proteins. It is most likely it was first proteins, then which backtracked into RNA and DNA. In fact, the only reason RNA was so highly popular with the RNA World theory was because unlike protein, it had the ability to pass down information from one generation to the next. However, a recent Science study showed proteins can pass down hereditary information as well.
 

NotASerialKiller

2+ Year Member
Jul 7, 2015
1,457
6,866
Status
Medical Student
Just curious...who thinks the big bang WAS creation? And God created by evolution.

Second question, which came first, DNA that codes for protein, or the proteins that replicate DNA?
Well one of those questions is legitimate, and the other is just... bizarre. How could you possibly debate whether God is a product of post-big bag evolution? I don't see how either side of that argument could make any sense at all.
 

efle

not an elf
5+ Year Member
Apr 6, 2014
11,669
15,441
Status
Medical Student
Well one of those questions is legitimate, and the other is just... bizarre. How could you possibly debate whether God is a product of post-big bag evolution? I don't see how either side of that argument could make any sense at all.
I'm going to guess "created by evo" = "performed the act of creation using evo"
 

ndafife

5+ Year Member
Jun 16, 2014
1,237
1,717
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Just curious...who thinks the big bang WAS creation? And God created by evolution.

Second question, which came first, DNA that codes for protein, or the proteins that replicate DNA?
1. Both science and religion at this point are asking the same circular question - Who tipped the 1st domino - did the universe create the universe, or did God create the universe (and if either did it, then how did they know to do it if nothing existed before and yadda yadda

2. RNA potentially predates life. It can act as an enzyme and holds genetic information
 
Aug 26, 2015
68
14
Status
Pre-Medical
Well one of those questions is legitimate, and the other is just... bizarre. How could you possibly debate whether God is a product of post-big bag evolution? I don't see how either side of that argument could make any sense at all.
No, Christianity says God is not in our timeline. God created the universe, and maybe this creation was the big bang, where essentially all this **** came from no where. Physics can't explain that.
 

steelersfan1243

5+ Year Member
May 9, 2013
435
561
Status
Pre-Medical
1. Both science and religion at this point are asking the same circular question - Who tipped the 1st domino - did the universe create the universe, or did God create the universe (and if either did it, then how did they know to do it if nothing existed before and yadda yadda

2. RNA potentially predates life. It can act as an enzyme and holds genetic information
RNAs can only act as an enzyme in one specific setting and proteins have recently been shown to hold genetic information. Add on that proteins have almost endless functions, it seems clear proteins should be the top choice for the origin of life
 

efle

not an elf
5+ Year Member
Apr 6, 2014
11,669
15,441
Status
Medical Student
No, Christianity says God is not in our timeline. God created the universe, and maybe this creation was the big bang, where essentially all this **** came from no where. Physics can't explain that.
To paraphrase Tyson, when you give God the role of explaining the inexplicable, he just becomes an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance

Want to elaborate a bit buddy?
RNA can produce RNA
 
  • Like
Reactions: texan2414

efle

not an elf
5+ Year Member
Apr 6, 2014
11,669
15,441
Status
Medical Student
RNAs can only act as an enzyme in one specific setting and proteins have recently been shown to hold genetic information. Add on that proteins have almost endless functions, it seems clear proteins should be the top choice for the origin of life
don't we have yet to see any creation of proteins sans RNA though?
 

ndafife

5+ Year Member
Jun 16, 2014
1,237
1,717
Status
Resident [Any Field]
RNAs can only act as an enzyme in one specific setting and proteins have recently been shown to hold genetic information. Add on that proteins have almost endless functions, it seems clear proteins should be the top choice for the origin of life
Go search the literature. I don't really feel the need to argue about this when others have already gone through it
 
Aug 26, 2015
68
14
Status
Pre-Medical
Where does the actual DNA sequence come from? I completely understand how mutations can *change* large proteins to have different functions. But how did the original protein get there?
 

ndafife

5+ Year Member
Jun 16, 2014
1,237
1,717
Status
Resident [Any Field]
No, Christianity says God is not in our timeline. God created the universe, and maybe this creation was the big bang, where essentially all this **** came from no where. Physics can't explain that.
I never said it couldn't. I was pointing out that theoretical physics is stuck at a point where it cannot (and probably will not) be able to explain
 

mimelim

Vascular Surgery
7+ Year Member
Sep 19, 2011
4,878
14,338
Status
Attending Physician
Funny story....

While in HS I sought out Dr. Oz because my uncle needed multiple heart valves replaced. His daughter was one of my classmates, so we literally picked up the school directory and called him. I was told that he was the best surgeon at the time in the NYC area for what my uncle had and at 16 it made sense to simply call and ask for help. After a relatively complex operation, post-operative course and the retrospective wisdom of training to be a vascular surgeon for some time now, that reputation was well deserved. The direction that his 'career' has gone and the nonsense that he spouts appears to run counter to that extreme level of competency that I witnessed. Being a good doctor or even one of the best doctors in a field does not preclude you from saying/doing stupid things in other realms, especially when there are large rewards to be had such as money and political gains.

I would trust either Dr. Carson or Dr. Oz's surgical and medical expertise, maybe less than someone who hasn't been away from their field for as long as each of them has, but certainly more than my own. Them having different life perspectives or even bat-**** crazy theories on other topics plays no role.
 

efle

not an elf
5+ Year Member
Apr 6, 2014
11,669
15,441
Status
Medical Student

mimelim

Vascular Surgery
7+ Year Member
Sep 19, 2011
4,878
14,338
Status
Attending Physician
What if you need surgery on your hand? What then? :O
My left hand has been operated on by the hand orthopedist for the St. Louis Cardinals. If I needed surgery on my hand again, I would go back to him. As far as I know he doesn't have any controversial positions...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Goro and sunshinefl