Would a Physician's Stance Creationism/Evolutionism Make You Question Their Competence as a Doctor?

[Pusheen]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

What if you need surgery on your hand? What then? :O

Get a man to do it? Duh?

 

[SusanGMaxwell]

Damn it I just realized I used my full name...

 

[SusanGMaxwell]

My left hand has been operated on by the hand orthopedist for the St. Louis Cardinals. If I needed surgery on my hand again, I would go back to him. As far as I know he doesn't have any controversial positions...

If you are a vascular surgeon, why are you trolling online forums? Don't you have surgeon things to do?

 

[ZedsDed]

but how did the RNA get there without proteins

is there literature saying rna plays the role of all proteins required in translation

I don't remember the answer to these questions. I do remember that it is really not that much of a mystery anymore. If anyone is truly interested in finding the answers, and not in rationalizing an ideology, you can spend some loving time with google scholar.

 

[AlfonsTheGuru]

Religion is a tool of comfort to many people regardless of their occupation. Not all of us want to take comfort in it. It could also be a belief deeply ingrained in a person's mind from a young age as myself.

This may interfere in belief of scientific theories with strong evidence, because it contradicts the source of comfort or deeply ingrained belief. This could cause a person to not rather have an opinion on whether Creationism or Evolution is correct, or this person may completely believe in Creationism.

Even so, this has nothing to do with the competence of a physician, dentist, nurse practitioner, medical assistant, etc. Their beliefs does not affect their dexterity, knowledge of the human body, surgical ability, etc. Therefore, I could care less.

 

[efle]

is there literature saying rna plays the role of all proteins required in translation

not afaik, it's only hinted at by the role of tRNA doing the real work and the fact that the proteins really only act as a catalystic scaffold

sort of like we have no direct evidence that a symbiotic event could really make the jump from endocytosis of another unicellular organism into the current mitochondrial system

If you are a vascular surgeon, why are you trolling online forums? Don't you have surgeon things to do?

He does this instead of sleeping

 

[SusanGMaxwell]

as a catalystic scaffold

 

[steelersfan1243]

I don't remember the answer to these questions. I do remember that it is really not that much of a mystery anymore. If anyone is truly interested in finding the answers, and not in rationalizing an ideology, you can spend some loving time with google scholar.

What? There is no clear answer to it. A research project in my undergrad lab was dedicated to adding onto protein's arsenal in claiming the origin of life

The fact that the time for RNA to evolve into proteins is just theoretically too long for the time the Earth has existed is simple, but is the biggest detriment to the RNA World Theory. You can look it up, theres people who claim there as a RNA-Peptide theory where both existed simultaneously, but is extremely unlikely all life originated from just RNA,

EDIT: Im convinced SusanGMaxwell is a SND regular on a troll account, her posts are too spot on for a newbie

 

[mimelim]

not afaik, it's only hinted at by the role of tRNA doing the real work and the fact that the proteins really only act as a catalystic scaffold

sort of like we have no direct evidence that a symbiotic event could really make the jump from endocytosis of another unicellular organism into the current mitochondrial system


He does this instead of sleeping

I'm actually waiting for a transfer that was supposed to get her an hour ago. Otherwise I would actually be asleep -.-.

 

[SusanGMaxwell]

it is a clear fact

It's not a fact, it's a conclusion. Speculation.

 

[efle]

oh ffs I don't even punctuate half my sentences, i'm low hanging fruit for poor spellcheck

 

[SusanGMaxwell]

I'm actually waiting for a transfer that was supposed to get her an hour ago. Otherwise I would actually be asleep -.-.

What would happen if you "accidentally" fell asleep in your chair?

 

[efle]

I'm actually waiting for a transfer that was supposed to get her an hour ago. Otherwise I would actually be asleep -.-.

Isn't being late to relieve people like, extremely unacceptable and punished with extra shifts?

 

[Pusheen]

It's not a fact, it's a conclusion. Speculation.

I'm so damn confused right now

 

[SusanGMaxwell]

I'm so damn confused right now

Welcome to medicine.

 

[Glazedonutlove]

not afaik, it's only hinted at by the role of tRNA doing the real work and the fact that the proteins really only act as a catalystic scaffold

sort of like we have no direct evidence that a symbiotic event could really make the jump from endocytosis of another unicellular organism into the current mitochondrial system


He does this instead of sleeping

without that catalystic scaffold it could take years... how would it even survive. Dammit now I want to look at the literature

 

[SusanGMaxwell]

without that catalystic scaffold it could take years... how would it even survive. Dammit now I want to look at the literature

 

[steelersfan1243]

without that catalystic scaffold it could take years... how would it even survive. Dammit now I want to look at the literature

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3495036/

This is what a quick search led, but really the small molecule for the origin of life is not something that has been resolved, or ever will, its truly the chicken or the egg question

 

[Cotterpin]

Although simple, the fact that the time for RNA to evolve into proteins is just too long in the time the Earth has existed is a simple, but is the biggest detriment to the RNA World Theory. You can look it up, theres people who claim there as a RNA-Peptide theory where both existed simultaneously, but is extremely unlikely all life originated from just RNA, it is a clear fact

I suppose the RNA/proteins could have evolved somewhere else and then got deposited on Earth back in the day when it was constantly bombarded by asteroids and thangs.

 

[Pusheen]

without that catalystic scaffold it could take years... how would it even survive. Dammit now I want to look at the literature

I'm sure it could have survived without a catalystic scaffold

 

[ZedsDed]

What? There is no clear answer to it. A research project in my undergrad lab was dedicated to adding onto protein's arsenal in claiming the origin of life

Although simple, the fact that the time for RNA to evolve into proteins is just too long in the time the Earth has existed is a simple, but is the biggest detriment to the RNA World Theory. You can look it up, theres people who claim there as a RNA-Peptide theory where both existed simultaneously, but is extremely unlikely all life originated from just RNA, it is a clear fact

EDIT: Im convinced SusanGMaxwell is a SND regular on a troll account, her posts are too spot on for a newbie

You're research sounds cutting-edge. My response was more generally directed, and I don't remember hearing about these objections in molecular bio, but I'll take you're word for it. As for a certain trolling user, they could at least go about it in an entertaining way.

 

[SusanGMaxwell]

I'm sure it could have survived without a catalystic scaffold

 

[steelersfan1243]

I suppose the RNA could have evolved somewhere else and then got deposited on Earth back in the day when it was constantly bombarded by asteroids and thangs.

The idea with the RNA World Theory is that it would catalyze the peptide bonds to make proteins. Amino acids could have existed in the prebiotic earth, there has been one experiment in particular that showed the energy from a lightning bolt coupled with the elements that was present on earth (CO2, ammonia, HCN) can create amino acids and dipeptides. RNA having already existed would then catalyze the peptide bonds to transition into peptides

 

[SusanGMaxwell]

I suppose the RNA/proteins could have evolved somewhere else and then got deposited on Earth back in the day when it was constantly bombarded by asteroids and thangs.

Ok...but how did those RNA/proteins evolve? Changing the location of evolution doesn't change anything...assuming we are still in this realm.

 

[efle]

without that catalystic scaffold it could take years... how would it even survive. Dammit now I want to look at the literature

Lol I dunno dude, how is photosynthesis, one of the oldest and most core features of life, so crappy that you have to adapt CAM and C4 to deal with its ******* tendency to do the exact opposite process its supposed to? How does eating a smaller bacterium let you replicate it in all your offspring/divisions?

I suppose the RNA could have evolved somewhere else and then got deposited on Earth back in the day when it was constantly bombarded by asteroids and thangs.

I think they even mentioned ark theory in Cosmos, that life going into space and crashing back down was probably necessary to explain how anything survived early on, even if it was only ever originally from earth

 

[SusanGMaxwell]

The idea with the RNA World Theory is that it would catalyze the peptide bonds to make proteins. Amino acids could have exited in the prebiotic earth, there has been one experiment in particular that showed the energy from a lightning bolt coupled with the elements that was present on earth (CO2, ammonia, HCN) can create amino acids and dipeptides. RNA having already existed would then catalyze the peptide bonds to transition into peptides

But how would catalytic RNA just form itself?

 

[mimelim]

What would happen if you "accidentally" fell asleep in your chair?

Nothing particularly dramatic. My pager would wake me up whenever they get here.

Isn't being late to relieve people like, extremely unacceptable and punished with extra shifts?

I'm waiting for a patient transfer from one of our outlying hospitals. Can't punish the patient with extra shifts 😉. Chance of him needing something done tonight is <10%, but that <10% is why I have to see him when he gets here. I'd also prefer to call my attending in at 11pm than 3am.

 

[efle]

Ok...but how did those RNA/proteins evolve? Changing the location of evolution doesn't change anything...assuming we are still in this realm.

omfg how is this hard to follow

floaty bits + lightning = protein pieces floating around

RNA occurs once and can both replicate itself and put those protein pieces together to make **** that helps it continue and on the cycle goes until BOOM you're sitting here a few billion years later struggling to grasp it all

 

[SusanGMaxwell]

omfg how is this hard to follow

floaty bits + lightning = protein pieces floating around

RNA occurs once and can both replicate itself and put those protein pieces together to make **** that helps it continue and on the cycle goes until BOOM you're sitting here a few billion years later struggling to grasp it all

So you explanation of the evolution of promordial RNA is "floaty bits just got together in a lucky way". *******.

 

[Cotterpin]

The idea with the RNA World Theory is that it would catalyze the peptide bonds to make proteins. Amino acids could have existed in the prebiotic earth, there has been one experiment in particular that showed the energy from a lightning bolt coupled with the elements that was present on earth (CO2, ammonia, HCN) can create amino acids and dipeptides. RNA having already existed would then catalyze the peptide bonds to transition into peptides

I am familiar with this from school. Whyyyyyy couldn't the RNA have come from elsewhere?

Ok...but how did those RNA/proteins evolve? Changing the location of evolution doesn't change anything...assuming we are still in this realm.

I was responding to the assertion that RNA couldn't have evolved into proteins because there wasn't enough time on Earth for that to happen. Don't ask me how these things evolved because I don't know.

 

[Glazedonutlove]

it all makes sense now thx efle

 

[SusanGMaxwell]

I was responding to the assertion that RNA couldn't have evolved into proteins because there wasn't enough time on Earth for that to happen. Don't ask me how these things evolved because I don't know.

Sounds like a load of BS.

 

[Pusheen]

"floaty bits just got together in a lucky way".

that's what she said

 

[ZedsDed]

omfg how is this hard to follow

floaty bits + lightning = protein pieces floating around

RNA occurs once and can both replicate itself and put those protein pieces together to make **** that helps it continue and on the cycle goes until BOOM you're sitting here a few billion years later struggling to grasp it all

You enjoy trolls a little too much haha

 

[ndafife]

is there literature saying rna plays the role of all proteins required in translation

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11358999

They were able to get RNA to synthesize itself in small batches.

But as others mentioned, most of the theory is based on the other enzymatic activity of RNA

 

[steelersfan1243]

But how would catalytic RNA just form itself?

Outside intervention

 

[SusanGMaxwell]

Outside intervention

Amen! Preach it brother.

 

[efle]

floaty bits just got together in a lucky way

this is like, most of chemistry. it just happens at various speeds. reproted 4 mean

You enjoy trolls a little too much haha

I really ****ing do

 

[bee17]

So you explanation of the evolution of promordial RNA is "floaty bits just got together in a lucky way". *******.

According to what we have learned in my undergrad classes, that's actually how many scientists think it happened. They use more specific words than "floaty bits," but @efle's explanation is not wrong based on current knowledge. Evolution is dependent upon chance events. Why should the origin of life be any different?

 

[ndafife]

I knew this thread would get derailed, never would have expected it to be because people were arguing whether RNA or protein predated life first

 

[SusanGMaxwell]

I knew this thread would get derailed, never would have expected it to be because people were arguing whether RNA or protein predated life first

Ummm....the ****? Evolution is obviously related to the predation of RNA vs. proteins. All other aspects of evolution are abundantly obvious and overflowing with evidence. /thread.

 

[Lawpy]

A person's strength as a scientist/doctor is largely innate intelligence and work ethic. A person's religious beliefs are defined almost entirely by that person's childhood. Ben Carson went from the very bottom to the very top, all by trusting in his religion, so of course he holds dear to it. It is his religion that got him this far, so for him to reject his religion would be stupid.

54+ posts in the 3 hours since you joined. Strong work.

 

[bee17]

I knew this thread would get derailed, never would have expected it to be because people were arguing whether RNA or protein predated life first

Yeah, for a creationism/evolution debate on the internet, this is remarkably tame. Gold stars for everyone.

 

[Pusheen]

I think this party should head over to the gender debate thread

 

[Cotterpin]

Ummm....the ****? Evolution is obviously related to the predation of RNA vs. proteins. All other aspects of evolution are abundantly obvious and overflowing with evidence. /thread.

The RNA vs. proteins debate is an abiogenesis question, not evolution.

 

[SusanGMaxwell]

I think this party should head over to the gender debate thread

Oh god you don't want to invite me there.

 

[SusanGMaxwell]

The RNA vs. proteins debate is an abiogenesis question, not evolution.

No.

 

[Glazedonutlove]

I think this party should head over to the gender debate thread

I think we explored every single aspect of that argument

 

[SusanGMaxwell]

54+ posts in the 3 hours since you joined. Strong work.

 

[Pusheen]

I think we explored every single aspect of that argument

but there's another thread on whether female doctors are attractive or not.
I'm so worried that men won't like me if I go to med school.