Would anyone turn down Harvard?

Started by glinkov
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Probably not. I've moved past the typical pre-med misnomer that a prestigious medical school will automatically grant one a position in a prestigious residency. Otherwise, you can be sure that would've been the only reason why I would've attended HMS if I had the acceptance.

paul411 said:
Just curious: Is the math research medical related?
Click to expand...

Of course it is. Topics in math having some sort of relevance in medical school would include: modeling, differential equations, and discrete math. And then you have fields like Biomathematics which, if you haven't figured out by now, involves the application of math in the health sciences. It's also useful in fields like Biostatistics or Epidemiology, so I can imagine why Lil Mick wouldn't want to attend HMS if they wouldn't allow him to pursue mathematics research.
 
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I don't believe in prestige, so I have absolutely no desire to go to Harvard. Plus, I love Texas too much. I'll never leave this place. Who can beat only being $70k in debt?
 
I would turn it down for Hogwarts. But then I'd be even farther away and it'd be colder. So I don't know. But then again from what I hear, the Malfoys are d!cks so that's a point for harvard.
 
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Venom5 said:
What do you mean by this?
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There are no doubts that Harvard has basically unparallelled research opportunities, for example. Thus, if you want to be a physician scientist, training at Harvard versus other schools might actually make a difference.

For your average run of the mill doc, though, it's just silly. But then again Harvard isn't looking to recruit people that want to become average run of the mill docs.
 
As I am just preparing to begin undergraduate, I realize that quite a lot about my goals and plans could change drastically over the next four years; however, as I stand now, there is a long list of other medical schools that I would turn down Harvard for and would do so with very little hesitation. I have no doubts that the school is a fantastic one, especially for those that would like to pursue research (as, with little doubt, Harvard certainly does a good job at that) and I have nothing against it or its students. I would also be dishonest if I said, at this point in my life, that prestige has no hold on me; for better or worse, going to a top 20 school sounds incredibly appealing. Yet, there is another factor that matters far more to me: location. Specifically, New York City. Though I did not grow up in the area, instead being raised in themiddleofnowhere, NY, I love the city - everything about it - and would give an arm if I could go to school there. Heck, I'd give an arm if I could simply stay in the state. Pennsylvania is my next choice of location. Then the rest of the East Coast is equal and, if it was a choice of any school in that area, then, to answer this topic, I would have a hard time turning Harvard down.

So, for me:

Medical College in New York City > Anywhere
Medical College in Anywhere, New York > Anywhere but NYC
Medical College in Anywhere, Pennsylvania > Anywhere but NYC or NY in General
Harvard Medical College > Anywhere but NYC, NY in general, Penn.
Northeast > Rest of the Country
 
I don't know if I could handle the stress of knowing how much debt I'd be under when I graduated.

But then again, I think this choice should depend MAINLY on what you think your plans might be after medical school. If you need the prestige for what you're hoping to achieve (top research position at a highly-ranked/well-funded school), absolutely go to Harvard or a top school, regardless of financial issues. I would say your happiness is worth it.

However, if you would be just as thrilled with a less prestigious position at any other university, are completely uninterested in research, or etc., I'd probably say to follow the money. You can still match in your chosen specialty, you just won't be as likely to get into a residency at a top school.

The importance of prestige should be considered in terms of what, if anything, you plan to actually do with it in the future. Otherwise, it's just paper.
 
4sport said:
Undergrad experience. Profs care more about their research than about teaching students.
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I guess inn a way you're right (I'm currently an undergrad there myself), but who knows what goes on in the graduate experience. And I guess it also depends on the kind of school you're into as well as the type of student you are. People seem to forget that the kind of people that get into HMS aren't your everyday pre-meds/med students.
 
"However, if you would be just as thrilled with a less prestigious position at any other university, are completely uninterested in research, or etc., I'd probably say to follow the money. You can still match in your chosen specialty, you just won't be as likely to get into a residency at a top school."
This is completely untrue, of course.
 
quiltlady said:
"However, if you would be just as thrilled with a less prestigious position at any other university, are completely uninterested in research, or etc., I'd probably say to follow the money. You can still match in your chosen specialty, you just won't be as likely to get into a residency at a top school."
This is completely untrue, of course.
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Just because medical school reputation is a low-ranked factor in consideration of applicants for residency doesn't mean it's never, or even uncommonly taken into account.

54% of programs surveyed in 2008 took into consideration if an applicant was a graduate of a "highly regarded" US allopathic school.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/programresultsbyspecialty.pdf

It makes sense that name recognition would play a factor in medical academia.
 
I didn't apply there because I didn't want to live in Boston.. not my dream school.. so I guess I would turn it down for the schools I applied to and the one I'm going to haha

though I should've applied to Stanford.. I realized too late that it has the perfect location, weather, etc... if only I had realized sooner!
 
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Two years ago I would have said no.

But "prestige" is pretty low down on the list of things that are important to me anymore so yes, I could see myself turning down Harvard
 
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I didn't read through the whole thread so I apologise if somebody has already made this point, but:

I would absolutely attend Harvard because one of my long-term career interests is improved healthcare & mental healthcare in developing countries, especially China. This will take political influence and connections which are far easier to obtain as a Harvard graduate. I consider prestige a resource worthy of investment, not simply a matter of personal value or opinion.


Frazier said:
I could (and would) turn down Harvard under certain circumstances...

Such a circumstance would be getting accepted at Yale.
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Let us know how you like getting mugged on Cedar St. 😛
 
Frazier said:
Are there 'rough streets' in New Haven?
I am unaware.
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I know multiple people robbed around Howe or Dwight under broad daylight (e.g. 2pm)... & people definitely get mugged all the time around the med school (Cedar St) although usually that happens at night. Oh and let's not mention the infamous "crime corridor" with the serial killings in '10 😛

I have to say though that the Yale med seem unnaturally happy and enthusiastic (and I'm going by residents, fellows and attendings in neurosurgery) so the ghettoness of the surroundings really shouldn't be a deterrent 😉



PS But I'm only a pre-med so maybe they're all evil on the inside. Who knows
 
I really have no desire to chime in on this but the number of misinformed posts on this thread is silly. I am matriculating there in about a month so feel free to pull the bias card but here's my attempt at objectivity, in no order.

-Endowment. It's enormous, and they're happy to finance summer research, extracurricular projects, AND...
-Financial Aid. Their endowment allows the financial aid office to offer an initiative in which anyone who has parents earning <120,000 has a $0 expected parental contribution, and for the most part this just means a $24,500 unit loan per year, amounting to around $100,000 after four years. No merit aid, so if your parents are wealthy, the financial aid will be a bit more skimpy but last I heard this covered >50% of matriculating students.
-The students. They're inspected during the application process for leadership traits, ambition, motivation, intelligence and creativity (and hopefully this is not just my wishful thinking, this is stated by the admissions office, and reflected by the fact that we are not the highest stats school in terms of GPA and MCAT). What does this mean? I'm hoping it means that we have a high concentration of the future leaders of healthcare, whether it be Med-school deans, company CEO's, or public policy figures. I'm certainly looking forward to knowing and working with these people...
-The clinical experience is incredible. Where else do you have several (B&W, Children's, Beth Israel, MGH) world-class hospitals. Nowhere.
- Research. Sure, you can say there are just too many faculty and students get lost or don't get many real responsibilities. I'm not a student yet so I may be wrong, but those I've spoken to say emails reaching out to a particular faculty member or doctor have been received exceptionally well and never have problems coordinating a meeting or lab experience. Not to mention, the sheer volume and quality of research means there's a good probability of not just finding a lab studying the absurdly rare thing you're interested in but also that your ground breaking research will be all over the news one day. Seriously, how many times have you heard or read: "Today, researchers at Harvard Medical School..."
-Dual-Degree opportunities. While an MD may ultimately be an MD, an HBS MBA is not just another MBA and a MPH from the School of Public Health is not just another MPH. The curriculum is structured to make fitting in a second degree easy, and it is very much a name game when it comes to these opportunities for students interested in health policy or administration.
-The girls. It's pretty fun telling a girl you just met that you're an incoming HMS student. Ok I'm kidding, but it sures does work magic in convincing your girlfriend's parents who have hated you forever that you're a worthy mate for their precious daughter.

There are several more reasons; Boston is a great city for people in their 20's (yeah the weather sucks), possible benefits in securing prized residency positions, and the opportunity to be in the midst of medical academia for your entire career, just to name a few.

Lastly, yeah there is a bit of snoodiness but that really wears off very quickly. I go to HMS, I'm hoping to love it there, I think it's the ideal medical school for ME, and I'm proud of that fact. Does it make me think I'm better than any other med student? No. The application process is a crapshoot and I often feel guilty for taking a spot from someone out there perhaps reading this who is much smarter and more hardworking than I will ever be. In the end though, only about 30-50 people a year turn Harvard down, and three of the four I know this year went MD-PhD elsewhere after only getting in MD at HMS. Ultimately, it's a great opportunity with few downsides for most people.
 
vballer said:
I really have no desire to chime in on this but the number of misinformed posts on this thread is silly. I am matriculating there in about a month so feel free to pull the bias card but here's my attempt at objectivity, in no order.

-Endowment. It's enormous, and they're happy to finance summer research, extracurricular projects, AND...
-Financial Aid. Their endowment allows the financial aid office to offer an initiative in which anyone who has parents earning <120,000 has a $0 expected parental contribution, and for the most part this just means a $24,500 unit loan per year, amounting to around $100,000 after four years. No merit aid, so if your parents are wealthy, the financial aid will be a bit more skimpy but last I heard this covered >50% of matriculating students.
-The students. They're inspected during the application process for leadership traits, ambition, motivation, intelligence and creativity (and hopefully this is not just my wishful thinking, this is stated by the admissions office, and reflected by the fact that we are not the highest stats school in terms of GPA and MCAT). What does this mean? I'm hoping it means that we have a high concentration of the future leaders of healthcare, whether it be Med-school deans, company CEO's, or public policy figures. I'm certainly looking forward to knowing and working with these people...
-The clinical experience is incredible. Where else do you have several (B&W, Children's, Beth Israel, MGH) world-class hospitals. Nowhere.
- Research. Sure, you can say there are just too many faculty and students get lost or don't get many real responsibilities. I'm not a student yet so I may be wrong, but those I've spoken to say emails reaching out to a particular faculty member or doctor have been received exceptionally well and never have problems coordinating a meeting or lab experience. Not to mention, the sheer volume and quality of research means there's a good probability of not just finding a lab studying the absurdly rare thing you're interested in but also that your ground breaking research will be all over the news one day. Seriously, how many times have you heard or read: "Today, researchers at Harvard Medical School..."
-Dual-Degree opportunities. While an MD may ultimately be an MD, an HBS MBA is not just another MBA and a MPH from the School of Public Health is not just another MPH. The curriculum is structured to make fitting in a second degree easy, and it is very much a name game when it comes to these opportunities for students interested in health policy or administration.
-The girls. It's pretty fun telling a girl you just met that you're an incoming HMS student. Ok I'm kidding, but it sures does work magic in convincing your girlfriend's parents who have hated you forever that you're a worthy mate for their precious daughter.

There are several more reasons; Boston is a great city for people in their 20's (yeah the weather sucks), possible benefits in securing prized residency positions, and the opportunity to be in the midst of medical academia for your entire career, just to name a few.

Lastly, yeah there is a bit of snoodiness but that really wears off very quickly. I go to HMS, I'm hoping to love it there, I think it's the ideal medical school for ME, and I'm proud of that fact. Does it make me think I'm better than any other med student? No. The application process is a crapshoot and I often feel guilty for taking a spot from someone out there perhaps reading this who is much smarter and more hardworking than I will ever be. In the end though, only about 30-50 people a year turn Harvard down, and three of the four I know this year went MD-PhD elsewhere after only getting in MD at HMS. Ultimately, it's a great opportunity with few downsides for most people.
Click to expand...

Future classmate (see you in August): you said pretty much everything else I was going to say. HMS is cheaper, more integrated with the non-traditional medical opportunities (I'm very interested in MBA), pass-fail, and just straight ballin in every way.
 
vballer said:
I really have no desire to chime in on this but the number of misinformed posts on this thread is silly. I am matriculating there in about a month so feel free to pull the bias card but here's my attempt at objectivity, in no order.

-Endowment. It's enormous, and they're happy to finance summer research, extracurricular projects, AND...
-Financial Aid. Their endowment allows the financial aid office to offer an initiative in which anyone who has parents earning <120,000 has a $0 expected parental contribution, and for the most part this just means a $24,500 unit loan per year, amounting to around $100,000 after four years. No merit aid, so if your parents are wealthy, the financial aid will be a bit more skimpy but last I heard this covered >50% of matriculating students.
-The students. They're inspected during the application process for leadership traits, ambition, motivation, intelligence and creativity (and hopefully this is not just my wishful thinking, this is stated by the admissions office, and reflected by the fact that we are not the highest stats school in terms of GPA and MCAT). What does this mean? I'm hoping it means that we have a high concentration of the future leaders of healthcare, whether it be Med-school deans, company CEO's, or public policy figures. I'm certainly looking forward to knowing and working with these people...
-The clinical experience is incredible. Where else do you have several (B&W, Children's, Beth Israel, MGH) world-class hospitals. Nowhere.
- Research. Sure, you can say there are just too many faculty and students get lost or don't get many real responsibilities. I'm not a student yet so I may be wrong, but those I've spoken to say emails reaching out to a particular faculty member or doctor have been received exceptionally well and never have problems coordinating a meeting or lab experience. Not to mention, the sheer volume and quality of research means there's a good probability of not just finding a lab studying the absurdly rare thing you're interested in but also that your ground breaking research will be all over the news one day. Seriously, how many times have you heard or read: "Today, researchers at Harvard Medical School..."
-Dual-Degree opportunities. While an MD may ultimately be an MD, an HBS MBA is not just another MBA and a MPH from the School of Public Health is not just another MPH. The curriculum is structured to make fitting in a second degree easy, and it is very much a name game when it comes to these opportunities for students interested in health policy or administration.
-The girls. It's pretty fun telling a girl you just met that you're an incoming HMS student. Ok I'm kidding, but it sures does work magic in convincing your girlfriend's parents who have hated you forever that you're a worthy mate for their precious daughter.

There are several more reasons; Boston is a great city for people in their 20's (yeah the weather sucks), possible benefits in securing prized residency positions, and the opportunity to be in the midst of medical academia for your entire career, just to name a few.

Lastly, yeah there is a bit of snoodiness but that really wears off very quickly. I go to HMS, I'm hoping to love it there, I think it's the ideal medical school for ME, and I'm proud of that fact. Does it make me think I'm better than any other med student? No. The application process is a crapshoot and I often feel guilty for taking a spot from someone out there perhaps reading this who is much smarter and more hardworking than I will ever be. In the end though, only about 30-50 people a year turn Harvard down, and three of the four I know this year went MD-PhD elsewhere after only getting in MD at HMS. Ultimately, it's a great opportunity with few downsides for most people.
Click to expand...
In the words of bannie, han hi haz hahvahd hlz?

But seriously, the place sounds amazing.
 
gettheleadout said:
In the words of bannie, han hi haz hahvahd hlz?

But seriously, the place sounds amazing.
Click to expand...

omg gunner

pewpew128556809820013017.jpg
 
vballer said:
I really have no desire to chime in on this but the number of misinformed posts on this thread is silly. I am matriculating there in about a month so feel free to pull the bias card but here's my attempt at objectivity, in no order.

-Endowment. It's enormous, and they're happy to finance summer research, extracurricular projects, AND...
-Financial Aid. Their endowment allows the financial aid office to offer an initiative in which anyone who has parents earning <120,000 has a $0 expected parental contribution, and for the most part this just means a $24,500 unit loan per year, amounting to around $100,000 after four years. No merit aid, so if your parents are wealthy, the financial aid will be a bit more skimpy but last I heard this covered >50% of matriculating students.
-The students. They're inspected during the application process for leadership traits, ambition, motivation, intelligence and creativity (and hopefully this is not just my wishful thinking, this is stated by the admissions office, and reflected by the fact that we are not the highest stats school in terms of GPA and MCAT). What does this mean? I'm hoping it means that we have a high concentration of the future leaders of healthcare, whether it be Med-school deans, company CEO's, or public policy figures. I'm certainly looking forward to knowing and working with these people...
-The clinical experience is incredible. Where else do you have several (B&W, Children's, Beth Israel, MGH) world-class hospitals. Nowhere.
- Research. Sure, you can say there are just too many faculty and students get lost or don't get many real responsibilities. I'm not a student yet so I may be wrong, but those I've spoken to say emails reaching out to a particular faculty member or doctor have been received exceptionally well and never have problems coordinating a meeting or lab experience. Not to mention, the sheer volume and quality of research means there's a good probability of not just finding a lab studying the absurdly rare thing you're interested in but also that your ground breaking research will be all over the news one day. Seriously, how many times have you heard or read: "Today, researchers at Harvard Medical School..."
-Dual-Degree opportunities. While an MD may ultimately be an MD, an HBS MBA is not just another MBA and a MPH from the School of Public Health is not just another MPH. The curriculum is structured to make fitting in a second degree easy, and it is very much a name game when it comes to these opportunities for students interested in health policy or administration.
-The girls. It's pretty fun telling a girl you just met that you're an incoming HMS student. Ok I'm kidding, but it sures does work magic in convincing your girlfriend's parents who have hated you forever that you're a worthy mate for their precious daughter.

There are several more reasons; Boston is a great city for people in their 20's (yeah the weather sucks), possible benefits in securing prized residency positions, and the opportunity to be in the midst of medical academia for your entire career, just to name a few.

Lastly, yeah there is a bit of snoodiness but that really wears off very quickly. I go to HMS, I'm hoping to love it there, I think it's the ideal medical school for ME, and I'm proud of that fact. Does it make me think I'm better than any other med student? No. The application process is a crapshoot and I often feel guilty for taking a spot from someone out there perhaps reading this who is much smarter and more hardworking than I will ever be. In the end though, only about 30-50 people a year turn Harvard down, and three of the four I know this year went MD-PhD elsewhere after only getting in MD at HMS. Ultimately, it's a great opportunity with few downsides for most people.
Click to expand...

"Today, researchers at Harvard Medical School..." - Doesn't mean anything. There are lots of stupid research studies that come out these days
 
vballer said:
-The clinical experience is incredible. Where else do you have several (B&W, Children's, Beth Israel, MGH) world-class hospitals. Nowhere.
Click to expand...
I'd say Baylor and the Texas Medical Center is comparable.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to pick an argument here, congrats on getting into Harvard, you definitely have a wealth of opportunities there. The rest of your points are definitely valid. But I have to wonder sometimes, despite being in a place where you have a world renown hospital system, does that really translate into better clinical education compared to a lesser known hospital? Does the faculty there teach better? Do medical students there have more responsibility?
 
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UnclePhil said:
I'd say Baylor and the Texas Medical Center is comparable.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to pick an argument here, congrats on getting into Harvard, you definitely have a wealth of opportunities there. The rest of your points are definitely valid. But I have to wonder sometimes, despite being in a place where you have a world renown hospital system, does that really translate into better clinical education compared to a lesser known hospital? Does the faculty there teach better? Do medical students there have more responsibility?
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I'm pretty sure the answers to all of those questions are probably no.

And that doesn't matter. Medical education is largely standardized. The quality of education is probably the same for "number 80" to "number 1" (I did interview at my old state school which was like number 100 and definitely was sub-par in educational quality). The only things you can choose between medical schools on are price, size, grading system, prestige/research (they go hand-in-hand typically), other opportunities and location.
 
I think it's fair to say that the vast majority of us will never get accepted to harvard and also probably lack the ability to project an unbiased opinion about what we would do.
 
calvnandhobbs68 said:
Your financial aid take is interesting. ONLY 24,500 a year if your parents EFC is 0? That's cool if you're looking at comparable need based offers but if you're looking at full tuition merit based scholarships its a bit much...definitely not enough to sway me to go there (which is what the point of the merit scholarships are I guess). It really makes no sense when comparing almost any two schools when you're talking about that much money because it's not like you're gonna make significantly more money as a Harvard grad. If you did, I'd probably sing a different tune but $100K isn't exactly spare spending money. Again, I got rejected so I'm sure some of you will chalk it up to never getting accepted but I seriously doubt I would have gone even if I did. I'll console myself with the $100K+ that I saved

You really don't have a problem doing summer/international projects at any top schools. It's not like any of them are hurting for money. In fact, a few of them require you to do a research project during your time in school.

Sure, the students are a bunch of smart guys but you can say that about a lot of schools. It's a crapshoot and I know people who got interviews at Harvard and didn't at UPenn or Columbia or wherever. It's quite a fine line you're trying to cut there and could come off as borderline insulting.

I would agree with the fact that working at those hospitals is probably pretty cool. Whether that actually translates into better learning..I don't know. The research aspect is pretty true too. If you're interested in researching some random disease you'll probably find it somewhere in the Harvard health system. Again, this is particularly useful for people wanting to continue with research or do very academic work though.

Haha sorry to break it to you man but Harvard's MBA program was edged out by University of Chicago in both Businessweek and the Economist...so to say that getting other graduate degrees from Harvard is soo much better than anywhere else smells like Harvard elitism to me.
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I think you're incorrectly inferring the elitist attitude and countering it with a combative and possibly jealous one. Vballer made no such claims that hms/hbs/hsph/etc. were the end-all-be-all.

Congrats on your merit scholarship. You've certainly displayed your merit in this thread.
 
calvnandhobbs68 said:
Your financial aid take is interesting. ONLY 24,500 a year if your parents EFC is 0? That's cool if you're looking at comparable need based offers but if you're looking at full tuition merit based scholarships its a bit much...definitely not enough to sway me to go there (which is what the point of the merit scholarships are I guess). It really makes no sense when comparing almost any two schools when you're talking about that much money because it's not like you're gonna make significantly more money as a Harvard grad. If you did, I'd probably sing a different tune but $100K isn't exactly spare spending money. Again, I got rejected so I'm sure some of you will chalk it up to never getting accepted but I seriously doubt I would have gone even if I did. I'll console myself with the $100K+ that I saved.
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So if Nick has a full tuition scholarship and will still owe around $120k, did you get more than a full tuition scholarship or what?
FlowRate said:
I think you're incorrectly inferring the elitist attitude and countering it with a combative and possibly jealous one. Vballer made no such claims that hms/hbs/hsph/etc. were the end-all-be-all.

Congrats on your merit scholarship. You've certainly displayed your merit in this thread.
Click to expand...
I lol'd.
 
FlowRate said:
I think you're incorrectly inferring the elitist attitude and countering it with a combative and possibly jealous one. Vballer made no such claims that hms/hbs/hsph/etc. were the end-all-be-all.

Congrats on your merit scholarship. You've certainly displayed your merit in this thread.
Click to expand...

Huh? I was never arguing that thats what was said. Some of the points make no sense though...and some of them do. That was probably one of the least inflammatory things I've written on here.

Btw you could basically replace merit with guaranteed vs not guaranteed money. I'll take guaranteed money any day of the week. Seems like a valid reason to turn places down to me.

Just looks to me like

1407196-u_mad1_super.jpg


Nah but really you probably aren't cause you're going to Harvard. It's obviously a baller place esp if you want to do things that were mentioned before.
 
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